Unsolicited Advice
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Unsolicited Advice
I have the guilts, again.
I always try to keep my nose out of other peoples recovery methods. Even if I do not agree with the principles of it. People are adults and can decide for themselves. Plus, I wouldn't like it on my conscience to persuade or argue someone down with the facts (as I believe them to be) that show their method is rubbish and have them lose faith in that method, that was working for them.
But, I think my unsolicited advice to my neighbour giving her "the facts" may have sabotaged her attempt to stop drinking.
She was drinking 75ml of vodka a day, has been for years, so she decided to wean herself off it. She said she was only going to drink "weak" lager. This was a few weeks ago. She said she was on 8 cans a day to start with.
I saw her yesterday morning and asked how she was doing, she said she was still on 8 cans a day. I said, I thought she was meant to be weaning off the drink? She said it was better than drinking vodka.
So big mouth here, said to her, that wasn't much of a weaning after all these weeks, because 4 cans of that lager she buys had 10 units of alcohol in it, so drinking 8 cans she was still drinking 20 units a day, a bottle of vodka has 26 units so drinking the lager wasn't much of a drop in alcohol from the vodka and she hadn't reduced the cans in the 4 weeks since she started!
This morning she stunk of vodka when I saw her, and said to me, well, I like vodka better, and as you pointed out, there isn't much difference between a bottle of this and the cans of lager.
So she is back where she started thanks to my big mouth!
I always try to keep my nose out of other peoples recovery methods. Even if I do not agree with the principles of it. People are adults and can decide for themselves. Plus, I wouldn't like it on my conscience to persuade or argue someone down with the facts (as I believe them to be) that show their method is rubbish and have them lose faith in that method, that was working for them.
But, I think my unsolicited advice to my neighbour giving her "the facts" may have sabotaged her attempt to stop drinking.
She was drinking 75ml of vodka a day, has been for years, so she decided to wean herself off it. She said she was only going to drink "weak" lager. This was a few weeks ago. She said she was on 8 cans a day to start with.
I saw her yesterday morning and asked how she was doing, she said she was still on 8 cans a day. I said, I thought she was meant to be weaning off the drink? She said it was better than drinking vodka.
So big mouth here, said to her, that wasn't much of a weaning after all these weeks, because 4 cans of that lager she buys had 10 units of alcohol in it, so drinking 8 cans she was still drinking 20 units a day, a bottle of vodka has 26 units so drinking the lager wasn't much of a drop in alcohol from the vodka and she hadn't reduced the cans in the 4 weeks since she started!
This morning she stunk of vodka when I saw her, and said to me, well, I like vodka better, and as you pointed out, there isn't much difference between a bottle of this and the cans of lager.
So she is back where she started thanks to my big mouth!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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I don't think your advice most likely had anything to do with it Sainos. She's an alcoholic and an adult, she was binge drinking before you talked to her and she's still binge drinking.
As you probably know from your experience as an addict, there's really nothing anyone can say that would have any effect on her anyway. She will need to make the decision to seek help/quit on her own.
As you probably know from your experience as an addict, there's really nothing anyone can say that would have any effect on her anyway. She will need to make the decision to seek help/quit on her own.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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I hope so Scott, I know she was probably looking for an excuse to get back on the vodka, but I feel a bit bad that I gave her one she could latch onto.
I could have given her a bit of encouragement, cos she was so happy she had reduced it at all and "gotton off the hard stuff" I basically said the equivelant of..you are doing it wrong.
Ah well, as I used to say about myself and the vodka, no one forced it down my neck.
I could have given her a bit of encouragement, cos she was so happy she had reduced it at all and "gotton off the hard stuff" I basically said the equivelant of..you are doing it wrong.
Ah well, as I used to say about myself and the vodka, no one forced it down my neck.
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Maybe she found your words judgmental, and she felt some resentment, anger and justification about it to drink liquor again.
But like Scott said, she is and adult and alcoholic. Think of what Al-anon says,
You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
If and when she is ready to ask for help, you can always remain an open door for her. But remember there is a big difference between being a support and being a support enabler, or even passing judgment on her efforts or where they're at.
At the last AA meeting I was at, one of the old timer's was talking about how he loved newcomers and reaching out to them or have them approach him. And what he would do is take them for coffee after a meeting, and he would sit and listen.
And instead of telling him the way to recovery, he shared his experience, eventually he shared what he did when the man was ready and willing to hear it, and also where he was at now.
Be easy on yourself, ok? I think a lot of us want to help other addicts we see suffering- I know for me it is a HUGE compulsion for me to want to help others. It's part my struggle with codependency and part my need for distraction from my own inner struggle with addiction. It's easier to try and help or try and fix what's external that what's internal.
Keep working on your sobriety, work on feeling proud and strong without ego, and if you feel you are willing and capable, then you can be an open door to her should she ever want to pursue recovery.
I think sometimes the best way we teach others or guide them down a better path is living a better life, walking our path to recovery. Lead by example.
But really, I don't think you did anything you should be kicking yourself over. It was solely her choice. And you should know we as alcoholics need no excuse to drink. We just do it.
But like Scott said, she is and adult and alcoholic. Think of what Al-anon says,
You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
If and when she is ready to ask for help, you can always remain an open door for her. But remember there is a big difference between being a support and being a support enabler, or even passing judgment on her efforts or where they're at.
At the last AA meeting I was at, one of the old timer's was talking about how he loved newcomers and reaching out to them or have them approach him. And what he would do is take them for coffee after a meeting, and he would sit and listen.
And instead of telling him the way to recovery, he shared his experience, eventually he shared what he did when the man was ready and willing to hear it, and also where he was at now.
Be easy on yourself, ok? I think a lot of us want to help other addicts we see suffering- I know for me it is a HUGE compulsion for me to want to help others. It's part my struggle with codependency and part my need for distraction from my own inner struggle with addiction. It's easier to try and help or try and fix what's external that what's internal.
Keep working on your sobriety, work on feeling proud and strong without ego, and if you feel you are willing and capable, then you can be an open door to her should she ever want to pursue recovery.
I think sometimes the best way we teach others or guide them down a better path is living a better life, walking our path to recovery. Lead by example.
But really, I don't think you did anything you should be kicking yourself over. It was solely her choice. And you should know we as alcoholics need no excuse to drink. We just do it.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
I don't give advice to active alcoholics, nor to other people IRL, unless they're on the verge of doing something to hurt themselves. There's nothing in it for me or them. Other than stopping, I don't know how to stop drinking, so I have nothing to offer on that front. As you've discovered, your neighbor did what any good alcoholic would do. She found a loophole in your argument.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Yeah Deli, I don't really feel any responsibility towards her as such, same as I never expected anyone to feel responsibility towards me for my drinking. I just thought, relaying that fact to her about alcoholic units, was it really necessary? I broke my own rule, and that is, people have all the facts about anything at their fingertips on the internet now, and if they were really that interested in knowing what I have to tell them, about anything alcohol related, they would have looked for themselves already.
Endgame, I am usually prone to be the way you describe yourself.
If someone asks me about something, or asks my opinion, I will tell them what I think, otherwise I usually just let them diddle on with what they are doing.
I don't actually think it's guilt I feel, it's I am a bit miffed, that she subtly told me it was me that made her think it wasn't worth the effort for those extra units saved haha
And it would be no good either if she came to me for advice on how to stop when I have more absinence, I am using AVRT now, and people, people addicted, who have never studied it, usually make the sign of the cross with their fingers and run away at the notion of "just stop drinking it" haha
Endgame, I am usually prone to be the way you describe yourself.
If someone asks me about something, or asks my opinion, I will tell them what I think, otherwise I usually just let them diddle on with what they are doing.
I don't actually think it's guilt I feel, it's I am a bit miffed, that she subtly told me it was me that made her think it wasn't worth the effort for those extra units saved haha
And it would be no good either if she came to me for advice on how to stop when I have more absinence, I am using AVRT now, and people, people addicted, who have never studied it, usually make the sign of the cross with their fingers and run away at the notion of "just stop drinking it" haha
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 379
The best way to help your neighbor is via power of example, recovery in action. Possibly if she sees you doing well for a period of time, she'll want what you have and be willing to go to any lengths to get it.
Until that time, we dont have the power to make someone drink/drug who isnt nor do we have the power to stop someone who is in the grips of addiction.
Until that time, we dont have the power to make someone drink/drug who isnt nor do we have the power to stop someone who is in the grips of addiction.
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