DesertEyes

9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.

Well, sort of. It's not that I seek approval that causes me harm. It's that I seek approval from the _wrong_ people. It's called "Stockholm syndrome" when it happens to adults who are taken hostage. It's a normal reaction to having your life threatened by insane criminals, you try to get them to like you in the hopes that they won't torture you any more, maybe even let you live.

Adults can overcome it with a little therapy.

Kids haven't got a prayer. All of society expects you to love your parents, all the messages you get are that your parents are kind, giving, loving and decent. In my case they weren't, and I spent my childhood constantly seeking their approval and affirmation. Their behavior was chaotic and unpredictable, so my behavior became ever more desperate and extreme. Sometimes it worked.

When I became an adult I had no idea how else to relate to people. I had no social skills of any kind. I did the only thing I knew how to do, seek approval and affirmation. The catch was that the only people I knew how interact with were people like my parents. So I gravitated towards people that were just as harmful to me as an adult as my parents were harmful to me as a kid. Repeating the harm that was done to me.

But that's not the real problem. It's not just a matter of overcoming syndromes. I've spent a few years learning how to do that and have gotten fairly good. My problem is that I still can't _connect_ with people. It's a _huge_ effort for me to be able to get beyond the friendly chit-chat and into the "trust building" part of any relationship. In fact, the whole chit-chat thing, the whole approval and affirmation "show" is just another means of preventing myself from opening up and letting people see what's really inside.

It's not that I'm trying to make people like me (the dreaded "Doormat syndrome") it's that I'm trying to make people like somebody that I'm not. Somewhere in that childhood I lost _me_. I've got pieces of me put back together, but there's big chunks still missing. I think (I'm guessing here, cuz I'm not there yet :-) that if I ever finally figure out who I really am, then I won't need all these fearful, defensive "syndromes".

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

DefofLov

It's a normal reaction to having your life threatened by insane criminals, you try to get them to like you in the hopes that they won't torture you any more, maybe even let you live.

I never really thought about it that way. How very interesting. For such a long time I tried very hard for them to love me and they just wouldnt show it the way I needed them to. They were so selfish and draining.

So I gravitated towards people that were just as harmful to me as an adult as my parents were harmful to me as a kid. Repeating the harm that was done to me.

As did I. I am not even sure exactly how it happened but I certainly did attract some awful people who took the term 'for granted' to a whole other level. Somehow I survived from all of that. I dont know how. Now, I am a lot wiser when I am choosing my friends. I know I have options and I know how I deserve to be treated. I also know what to do to end a friendship.

My problem is that I still can't _connect_ with people. It's a _huge_ effort for me to be able to get beyond the friendly chit-chat and into the "trust building" part of any relationship.

It will take a while to learn how to do that. Even 'normal' people have issues with trust. (so I think...lol). You'll get the hang of it. I did.

I think (I'm guessing here, cuz I'm not there yet :-) that if I ever finally figure out who I really am, then I won't need all these fearful, defensive "syndromes".

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

Dont worry, sometimes it is hard to keep up with ourselves when we are changing all of the time. You will find yourself eventually.

DesertEyes

Yup, same here. I'd like to say that I achieved some kind of wonderful self-awareness, but I didn't. I just finally gave up.

Way cool :-)

<LOL> I love that, I have this image of me trying to run fast enough to catch my shadow :-)

Thanx for the encouragement :-)

Mike :-)

journeygal

Hi Mike,

It does go a bit deeper, at least for me.

Not only do I seek approval from the wrong people, I dismiss it from the right people - what's that all about?

I could have a million people, friends and family who love and respect me, give me approval, validation, and support all day long. But I use up my energy and self-esteem on the one or two sick people who don't love themselves and can't possibly love me in a healthy way. Not only that, I suffer serious abandonment and rejection when they leave or hurt me emotionally.

I have a hard time accepting compliments from healthy people. But let me get a compliment from a sicko and I'm on could nine!

Ugh...

DesertEyes

Heya JourneyGal,

I do the same durn thing

For me it's a mixture of things. I feel comfortable around sickos because I was raised by them. There are no surprises for me from sickos. Healthy people are a complete mystery to me, and that makes me nervous and uncomfortable. When a sicko gives me some kind of "possitive stroke" I know it's just a pre-amble to some kind of manipulation, and I'm ready for it. When a healthy person gives me a "positive stroke" I have no clue what comes next. My entire mental system goes on high alert because "positive strokes" have _always_ been a warning that bad things are coming.

It's like the ticking of a bomb. When a sicko gives me a compliment of any kind, or provides any kind of recognition or approval, I know they have just set a bomb underneath somewhere and the words out of their mouths are the ticking sounds. When a healthy person does the same thing, I can't find the bomb. That _really_ makes me nervous.

For me, it's just an old reflex. Healthy people don't have ulterior motives for their compliments, there is _no_ bomb. I just haven't gotten used to that yet :-)

I'm spending as much time as I can with healty people, no matter how nervous I get. Am avoiding the sickos like the plague, which is not so easy cuz I'm still attracted to them.

Yup, same here. What I used to do was get involved in "serial relationships". I would fall madly in love with a sicko, have a brief and intenses relationship, get dumped and abandoned, and then go "medicate" the feelings by getting into another sick relationship.

I was "addicted" to sick relationships. Like all my addictions, they were just a form of "emotional anti-depresant" that I used to avoid looking within myself. It was necesary for me to see a couple of good shrinks, and work the steps of various programs, before I realized that I was _not_ the worthless, hopeless reject that my parents told me I was. I am a normal, healthy, decent person with a few emotional scars. Once I realized that, the need for anti-depresants just evaporated and disapeared. THe old habits are still there, the emotional injuries still ache, but the _need_ is gone.

I feel like a guy who spent his whole world living in black and white. Now I've discovered color. It's absolutely wonderful, but it's going to take me a bit of time to build up the habits that everybody else has. Like which one is "stop" again? Red or Green? And which one is "green"? The top light or the bottom light? And what do I do when the lights are horizontal?

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

granolaprincess

Hey Desert Eyes,
Funny you would mention "all my addictions" -- I've just recently come to realization in the last couple of months that, contrary to what I tell myself (and others), I am an addict -- a relationship addict. I keep picking relationships w/ people that can't work because of the emotional disconnect. In fact, this morning I went back to my old pattern of "I'm just better off alone, I can't seem to see the unhealthy ones and the healthy ones scare the daylights out of me". I had to stop and realize that this was the pain talking and get myself back on track. The one that gets me the worst is the person who is unhealthy put gives a total illusion of great mental health. That was my recent experience and boy did I get bamboozled. I saw warning signs but they weren't loud enough, or often enough, for me to give them much heed.

You know, this reminds me of school. There were teachers I couldn't stand, but I knew what to expect so it was easier to take them for other classes. It's the same w/ ACAs, we know what to expect from the unhealthy ones, so we can work within those parameters. We know what to do, how to react and how to provide in these situations.

The abandonment and rejection thing is SO hard. I am still telling myself "It's not about me" whenever I start to feel that tug of being left again. I'm also working on accepting compliments. I have a friend who is genuine and honest, but when he compliments me I have to bite my lip from making a sarcastic comment. That "I'm not worthy" part is still there and it's really hard to fight. I literally have to stop and remember that it's okay to just say "thank you" and not make someone feel like they shouldn't be praising you. Do guys have an easier time with that? Sometimes I wonder how much of it is how I grew up and how much is about female submissiveness.

I admire that you can do chit-chat! I go straight for the jugular and want to know what makes someone tick so that I can make my behavior plan. I often come off like a goof. I was recently questioning the normal progression of trust in a relationship. When you don't have the examples set forth for you, how do you know what it is or when it's happening? How do healthy people do it? I don't know the answers and wonder if there even are any.

I have to fight from looking for affirmation in others, it's in me, not them. I never looked for it in others, unless that "other" was a parent or significant other. Friends are not an issue, but parents and partners seem to get the needy part of the kid in me. That makes relating difficult and I look anti-social because I tend to stay away from people to avoid advertising my lack of social skills.

Thoughts?

journeygal

Hey Mike,

You have me cracking up at "sickos". I guess I should have chosen a different word!

I am definitely new to color. And I definitely have a hard time relating to normies. It's so hard to believe there are people are there who don't want anything from me other than my love and companionship. And, they like me, they really like me!

GP, I can relate to every word you wrote, especially to the relationship addiction and being vulnerable with parents and partners. But I'm learning how to set boundaries and not let their stuff affect me or my self-esteem. That's a huge change b/c I used to base my whole identify on what my parents or my husband thought of me. Now it's not important. What I think of me is what matters. As long as I can look at myself in the mirror and be ok with what I see, I'm cool with me.

utopia

firstof all, wow, im always amazed how i can relate to people on here, it really breaks down the feelings of isolation and freak of nature ness.

""when he compliments me I have to bite my lip from making a sarcastic comment...Do guys have an easier time with that? Sometimes I wonder how much of it is how I grew up and how much is about female submissiveness.""

well im male and i can say that ive done that so many times, when im complimented my intial reaction is to go PFFT!!
i think thats because i never was praised as a child, the lack of congratualations being replaced with negative disaproval, and lack of pride from my parents made me feel worthless and unworthy of any praise.Parents are the original templates!! i also feel awkard giving compliments sometimes and can feel corny expressing how i feel if its anything remotely positive, i sometimes go overboard with appraisal which touches some people and freaks out others.
esp romantically i smother the other person, partly cos im starved for affection, but also because its in my mind that if love them with everything i got then they wont abandon me (cos i must not have loved my parents enough to 'earn' theyre unconditional love in return, crazy thoughts ive had)

"" I don't know the answers and wonder if there even are any. ""

noone knows all the answers, its just has to be faith in your higherpower that itll be revealed in time. there will always be parts of life that are unknown but...id rather life be a mystery with many possibilities then live a mundane existence where nothing is surprsing or new.

""I have to fight from looking for affirmation in others, it's in me, not them. I never looked for it in others, unless that "other" was a parent or significant other. Friends are not an issue, but parents and partners seem to get the needy part of the kid in me. That makes relating difficult and I look anti-social because I tend to stay away from people to avoid advertising my lack of social skills."[/QUOTE]

:band
yes sometimes the need to be validated to know wwe actually are being heard is desperate. the number of times ive interrupted conversations and then been ignored or had to wait! and i take it so personally but ignore that im rudely butting in.
meetings are good to feel heard and to feel that ihave input , that i am actually alive instead if a shadow, ghost just doing my daily routines. meetings prayer and meditation and literature as well as friends and the family i DO have give life meaning. gratitude keeps a smile on my face and lets me see the brigher side thru the clouds

amen
toby

DesertEyes

Heya Princess!

Yup. I never figured that out about me until several old-timers took the time to pound it into my head. You seem to have more succesful relationships than I, didn't you say you were married for awhile, and now a boyfriend that has lasted awhile? I had a long stretch of one and two-week flaming affairs, could never even get past the "Hello, what's your sign?" stage.

Being an alcoholic, and a black-out one at that, can cause some very embarrasing situations. I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago and met a charming young lady who used to drink in the same bars I did, many moons ago. On the same nights. At the same times. We remembered many of the same things about those places, yet we couldn't remember each other.

We were definetly clicking instantly, and she's a dynamite babe, I _know_ I would have remembered her. How we never crossed paths over the many years we lived in the same town baffled us. I just had to tell her that I just _knew_ I owed her an ammends, probably a big one, I just couldn't remember what for.

I would _love_ to be a hermit. I even signed up to be a Trapist monk, which would have been the _sickest_ thing I could have ever done in my whole life. The thought of hiding away from all my problems by avoiding all people is a strong call. 'course, that wouldn't _really_ solve anything, cuz the problem's in _me_.

I'm learning to listen to those _tiny, tiny_ warning signs. The tinier they are the more I listen to them. I guess I have some kind of "emotional hearing impairment" :-)

um.... yeah.... right.... * looks at ceiling. looks at feet *

You're ahead of me on that one. Still causes me all kinds of stomach churning.

I'm a guy and no, makes me totally crazy. Dunno about you but I'm convinced it's my childhood reflexes. I can smile and say "thanks", but it's a complete act. I'm going ape-s(*&*^ on the inside.

<lol> oh great! Give me an opportunity to excercise my "compliment accepting skills". You're as bad as my sponsor! <lol>

I learned it out of books :-) There's tons of books in the "sales and management" shelves on how to develop relationships. There's also great books in the psychology section at the universities on how to "connect" to a patient, how to give verbal and non-verbal feedback. It's starting to feel natural now, not so much of an act. It's kinda fun, to be able to talk to people and make friends. I'm still not real good at it, but I'm getting better :-)

Healthy people were born the same as us ACA's. Naked and stupid. They learned everything along the way. So I can learn it too. I just have to learn it on my own instead of from a family role-model. As to how to go about it.... don't know yet... I'll give you a rain check and let you know when I figure it out ;-)

I've got a friend who admits to having _no_ social skills at all. She's five foot-nothing and maybe 100 pounds after Thanksgiving dinner. She'll walk right up to you and say, "I had a s(*)* childhood, I'm a recovering alcoholic, I have only a smattering of social skills and I used it all up this morning with my 10 year old, so don't mess with me."

You know what, she doesn't act anti-social at all. She looks _shy_, and that makes her kinda cute. So I'm thinking maybe you want to go with the "shy" ensemble? It's a lot more positive and growth-oriented than saying you're "anti-social". After all, anti-social means you are angry at people, and from what you've posted it seems to me that you just have the normal "shyness" of all us ACA's.

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

chess

[QUOTE=journeygal]
Not only do I seek approval from the wrong people, I dismiss it from the right people - what's that all about?

I could have a million people, friends and family who love and respect me, give me approval, validation, and support all day long. But I use up my energy and self-esteem on the one or two sick people who don't love themselves and can't possibly love me in a healthy way. Not only that, I suffer serious abandonment and rejection when they leave or hurt me emotionally.

QUOTE]

Hey, how did you manage to sum up me in so accurately?

chess

I that's what I do. Then there is this other thing that I do automaticly which is I start to wait for trouble and get nervous 'cos I used to know from which direction I could expect it and nowadays I no clue and I think my inner self is so well programmed for trouble that I go through the symptoms anyway whether there is actual trouble in the horizon on not.

Just this weekend I got nervous when one of my guest asked that what it is that I would like to do now that I have graduated and I couldn't give an answer. Sometimes I wonder if I do really exist. I too feel like there are more of me missing than here and then there's the old habit of being as vague as possible to avoid more trouble.

How long does it take to get better?

Chess

DesertEyes

Depends on how much time you invest in getting better :-) The more time I spend working on me the faster I shake off all the "baggage". When I was seeing a shrink, and going to meetings, and reading up every self-help book I could lay my hands on I got better in a hurry. I went from being completely dysfunctional and living in my car to having a job and an apartment in about 6 months. That's a _long_ way to go :-)

I think you're doing just fine :-) You just graduated, that's a huge step for an ACA. You're active in this forum, you're sharing and growing. You're aware of the parts of you that you want to improve. I think you rock.

Mike :-)

epaphras_faith

Well, I am new here so I hesitate to reply without knowing you all. I do have a couple of things to say.

I too am an approval seeker. I want people to like me. I don't waste all my time on sick people though. Unless of course you consider that ever person on the face of the planet is sick. Let's face it. We are all damaged goods (not just us on this board, everyone!) its just better to know you are.

I am trying to learn to find acceptance in my higher power, I call Him God. If after all, I can believe that God finds me wonderful to be around, I don't really need to find it in others. In coming to know Him, one of the ways he interacts with me is that he gives me people in my life who do accept and love me. Even though my father may never know how, even though I may live with an alcoholic, God still gives me great people in my life. And, if nothing else, then HE is a great friend. I think it is the point of the 12 steps after all (see step 11 for instance).

Thanks for letting me get in my 2cents

Epaphras_faith

chess

Welcome Epaphras_faith! It's good to have you here.

chess

Is it possible to get stuck at some point and just get frustrated at the slow process? I fondly remember the phase when I was reading every self-help book I could get my hands on but now I have read most of them and some more than once and now I feel that I'm taking steps back.

If only I could be happy with myself but it seems I go looking for disapprovement. Why is that? Easy questions this time

I had a revelation yesterday. I'm once again reading co-dependent no more and there was a chapter saying how a co-dependent can be spotted in a couple of minutes by seeing how they offer help when not asked or by seeing how they just keep on talking even though they are uncomftable in doing so. And I just did that. I met an acquintance at a club and kept talking to her even though I ended up feeling awkward. At that point I was seeing huge neon signs flashing CO-DEPENDENT IN SESSION HERE!!!!!

So my wise fellow travellers of life could you please share some light on why is it so much easier to spot these little dysfunctions in oneself but so hard to do anything about them?

And thank Mike for the compliment and support

I would like to thank each and everyone of you boarders for just being you and thus helping me learn more about me. Thank you guys. You rock!
Today is a good day, lets cruise

Chess

DesertEyes

Heya chess :-)

Well sure :-) I want it all _now_. All perfect. All fixed. No more problems. Ever.

In the real world it doesn't happen that way :-) The way it works for me is that I am forced to work on some piece of my baggage, and so I spend some time figuring myself out. I learn whatever "emotional reflexes" are causing my issues, I learn what my reactions are, then figure out healthy behaviors. Then I have to spend some time _practicing_ my new behaviors until they become habits. Eventually, I don't have to think about it anymore. The behaviors become ingrained and I can thank my HP for saving my a$$ one more time.

If I try to fix too much, I goof it all up. There's a limit to how much stuff I can handle all at once. (Last year or so I've been way over my limit, that's just the way it goes sometimes) So what happens with me is that I'll go into these "flat spots" where I'm just coasting on the previous burst of self-fixing and making sure that my new found behaviors get cemented in good and solid.

I know that feeling. If I stay in my "flat spot" too long I get exactly that feeling. The flat spot becomes a rut. So maybe it's time to do something different. How about real life meetings? Have you checked out all the ones in your area? If there aren't any you could always start your own ( I think I may have mentioned this before :-) The idea is to share your experience, strength and hope face to face. Works great for me, perhaps it'll work for you :-)

<lol> Easy? Never been easy for me! I have to go to meetings, see a shrink, get a sponsor and otherwise have it shoved in my face before I go "Ohhhhhh, so if I quit sticking my hand in the fire it will quit hurting, why didn't _I_ think of that!".

Hard? Because it hurts. It's scary and painful for me to step out of my comfortable little rut. Never mind that the rut is filled with mud and slimy things. But once I get out it feels _great_. That's why it helps me so much to reach out to the newcomers, it reminds me in a clear and direct manner what will happen to me if I stay in my rut.

Whadya think?

You got it! Boss just stepped out for lunch so I'm cranking up the music and dancing while I work <lol>

Mike :-)

DesertEyes

Welcome aboard :-) And thanx for sharing, please do toss in as many thoughts as you have. The more the better :-)

Mike :-)