I feel like...
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I feel like...
...I need to state my boundaries once again with AH. In order to give him a "fair chance" and get his act together before I start working on an exit strategy. I did not want to ever be in this position again, yet here I am.
So fricken tired of being accused of untrue infidelity, gas lighting, random insults and blame. He is being suuuuper clingy it's suffocating and pathetic to be honest. Oy.
Any advice on formulating a proper statement to him? or....whatever I need to do? arrrggghh. Why must I overthink everything. Thanks all.
xo
So fricken tired of being accused of untrue infidelity, gas lighting, random insults and blame. He is being suuuuper clingy it's suffocating and pathetic to be honest. Oy.
Any advice on formulating a proper statement to him? or....whatever I need to do? arrrggghh. Why must I overthink everything. Thanks all.
xo
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My friend, the boundaries are for YOU, not for him. If they are there to try to manipulate him into getting better or changing, then they are rules, not boundaries.
If they need to be stated again and again, it's because he continues to cross them and you refuse to enforce them. If you're not prepared to enforce them, they are meaningless. If you're not prepared to exit NOW, then don't create boundaries where the consequence is your exit.
Spoken with love, by someone who created dozens, if not hundreds, of "boundaries" that I stated very publicly and dramatically as a way to try to control his behavior, and that I NEVER enforced.
If they need to be stated again and again, it's because he continues to cross them and you refuse to enforce them. If you're not prepared to enforce them, they are meaningless. If you're not prepared to exit NOW, then don't create boundaries where the consequence is your exit.
Spoken with love, by someone who created dozens, if not hundreds, of "boundaries" that I stated very publicly and dramatically as a way to try to control his behavior, and that I NEVER enforced.
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I guess I have hard time wrapping my mind around the idea.
Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong? I feel that I need to state what I won't allow in my life, if he continues, well, then...I act. After it is at least out in the open.
I am already detaching and the denial is so strong in this one, he has no idea why and it's causing him to look everywhere but himself. I feel I need to communicate the issue, for my peace of mind. So I know I've done my part.
Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong? I feel that I need to state what I won't allow in my life, if he continues, well, then...I act. After it is at least out in the open.
I am already detaching and the denial is so strong in this one, he has no idea why and it's causing him to look everywhere but himself. I feel I need to communicate the issue, for my peace of mind. So I know I've done my part.
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let's discuss this FAIR CHANCE.
you mean to get his head out of his tukkus?
to stop drinking?
to stop treating you poorly?
to act like a responsible grown up?
altho i appreciate your sentiment, i don't believe that if you say it in French, Greek, Dutch and Nepalese, soft as whisper and then thru a bullhorn, that it is going to make a whit of difference.
as i recall, you left once already. and altho HE did not CHANGE, you came back.
if nothing changes, NOTHING CHANGES. you are truly free to go whenever you wish.....but if you are expecting him to just suddenly do a face palm and say OH I GET IT and then immediately transform HIS life, don't hold your breath.
you mean to get his head out of his tukkus?
to stop drinking?
to stop treating you poorly?
to act like a responsible grown up?
altho i appreciate your sentiment, i don't believe that if you say it in French, Greek, Dutch and Nepalese, soft as whisper and then thru a bullhorn, that it is going to make a whit of difference.
as i recall, you left once already. and altho HE did not CHANGE, you came back.
if nothing changes, NOTHING CHANGES. you are truly free to go whenever you wish.....but if you are expecting him to just suddenly do a face palm and say OH I GET IT and then immediately transform HIS life, don't hold your breath.
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Sounds to me like he's had a fair chance. More than one.
I think we sometimes are so sensitive to the projected accusation, "It's not FAIIIRRRR," that we forget about fairness to ourselves. What's fair about the way he's treated you? People treat you like crap, you are ENTITLED to walk away. It's fair. He's already broken the deals of a decent relationship. Repeatedly. Nothing more needs to be said.
Get going on your exit strategy NOW. Waiting won't make it any easier.
I think we sometimes are so sensitive to the projected accusation, "It's not FAIIIRRRR," that we forget about fairness to ourselves. What's fair about the way he's treated you? People treat you like crap, you are ENTITLED to walk away. It's fair. He's already broken the deals of a decent relationship. Repeatedly. Nothing more needs to be said.
Get going on your exit strategy NOW. Waiting won't make it any easier.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
let's discuss this FAIR CHANCE.
you mean to get his head out of his tukkus?
to stop drinking?
to stop treating you poorly?
to act like a responsible grown up?
altho i appreciate your sentiment, i don't believe that if you say it in French, Greek, Dutch and Nepalese, soft as whisper and then thru a bullhorn, that it is going to make a whit of difference.
as i recall, you left once already. and altho HE did not CHANGE, you came back.
if nothing changes, NOTHING CHANGES. you are truly free to go whenever you wish.....but if you are expecting him to just suddenly do a face palm and say OH I GET IT and then immediately transform HIS life, don't hold your breath.
you mean to get his head out of his tukkus?
to stop drinking?
to stop treating you poorly?
to act like a responsible grown up?
altho i appreciate your sentiment, i don't believe that if you say it in French, Greek, Dutch and Nepalese, soft as whisper and then thru a bullhorn, that it is going to make a whit of difference.
as i recall, you left once already. and altho HE did not CHANGE, you came back.
if nothing changes, NOTHING CHANGES. you are truly free to go whenever you wish.....but if you are expecting him to just suddenly do a face palm and say OH I GET IT and then immediately transform HIS life, don't hold your breath.
Read this thread to school myself a bit: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
First boundary:
I will not carry on a conversation/confrontation while you are intoxicated.
Am I onto something here?
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I know this is all elementary to you guys. This crap is just so beyond my way of thinking. The fact that I get answers on these threads of mine, it's just awesome so thank you all.
Last edited by thousandwords53; 08-17-2016 at 02:53 PM. Reason: TYPO
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Boundaries aren't something you lay down like a line in the sand that he has to cross before you do something.
Rather, they provide ways of telling YOURSELF what you will do when certain conduct happens--"If he does this, I will do that." NOT, "If YOU do this, I will do that." That is, essentially, an ultimatum, and it serves no purpose.
Rather, they provide ways of telling YOURSELF what you will do when certain conduct happens--"If he does this, I will do that." NOT, "If YOU do this, I will do that." That is, essentially, an ultimatum, and it serves no purpose.
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Boundaries tell US what WE will do IF.....
It's like a fire drill at work- ok if that alarms goes off, then i will......get up, close my office door and calmly leave the building,
or an earthquake drill - if the ground starts shaking i will.....get myself under something sturdy and safe, away from glass windows, and hang on for dear life.
the fact i used to DISASTER scenarios is more than irony. we can't stop the fire or the earthquake, nor is it truly our job, our JOB is to take care of ourselves and stay safe.........and sane.
It's like a fire drill at work- ok if that alarms goes off, then i will......get up, close my office door and calmly leave the building,
or an earthquake drill - if the ground starts shaking i will.....get myself under something sturdy and safe, away from glass windows, and hang on for dear life.
the fact i used to DISASTER scenarios is more than irony. we can't stop the fire or the earthquake, nor is it truly our job, our JOB is to take care of ourselves and stay safe.........and sane.
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I totally get what you are saying and boundaries are not elementary. They are extremely difficult.
In a similar thread or post of mine someone once said something that struck me. What do I want to say? Basically it boiled down to "I won't be with an alcoholic. I won't be with someone that steals all the money in the family and drinks it away. I won't be with someone that .....xyz. "
And I felt like I had to give him fair warning - again for the millionth time??? Because I wouldn't except behavior that no person should be expected to accept? Why? It wasn't so much that I wanted to control him (and I did on some level) but that it was unbelievable that he wouldn't change if he really truly heard me. If only I said it right, at the right time, in the right way with the right words. But no. He heard. It was a matter of acceptance on my part.
You have said it a million ways and a million times with both your words and your behavior. He knows. His refusal to acknowledge it doesn't mean you have to continue to stay stuck. You've said and done it all and you are free to focus on yourself now.
And he might cry the house down or tear it apart or any number of out there things that people do when the status quo is threatened. But you carry on. Let go. We trick ourselves into thinking they have such a hold on us but it is often us that won't let go. They are the only one's that can unlock the door of alcoholism and we are the only one's that can unlock the doors to our own prisons.
In a similar thread or post of mine someone once said something that struck me. What do I want to say? Basically it boiled down to "I won't be with an alcoholic. I won't be with someone that steals all the money in the family and drinks it away. I won't be with someone that .....xyz. "
And I felt like I had to give him fair warning - again for the millionth time??? Because I wouldn't except behavior that no person should be expected to accept? Why? It wasn't so much that I wanted to control him (and I did on some level) but that it was unbelievable that he wouldn't change if he really truly heard me. If only I said it right, at the right time, in the right way with the right words. But no. He heard. It was a matter of acceptance on my part.
You have said it a million ways and a million times with both your words and your behavior. He knows. His refusal to acknowledge it doesn't mean you have to continue to stay stuck. You've said and done it all and you are free to focus on yourself now.
And he might cry the house down or tear it apart or any number of out there things that people do when the status quo is threatened. But you carry on. Let go. We trick ourselves into thinking they have such a hold on us but it is often us that won't let go. They are the only one's that can unlock the door of alcoholism and we are the only one's that can unlock the doors to our own prisons.
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Originally Posted by Thumper
I totally get what you are saying and boundaries are not elementary. They are extremely difficult.
In a similar thread or post of mine someone once said something that struck me. What do I want to say? Basically it boiled down to "I won't be with an alcoholic. I won't be with someone that steals all the money in the family and drinks it away. I won't be with someone that .....xyz. "
And I felt like I had to give him fair warning - again for the millionth time??? Because I wouldn't except behavior that no person should be expected to accept? Why? It wasn't so much that I wanted to control him (and I did on some level) but that it was unbelievable that he wouldn't change if he really truly heard me. If only I said it right, at the right time, in the right way with the right words. But no. He heard. It was a matter of acceptance on my part.
You have said it a million ways and a million times with both your words and your behavior. He knows. His refusal to acknowledge it doesn't mean you have to continue to stay stuck. You've said and done it all and you are free to focus on yourself now.
And he might cry the house down or tear it apart or any number of out there things that people do when the status quo is threatened. But you carry on. Let go. We trick ourselves into thinking they have such a hold on us but it is often us that won't let go. They are the only one's that can unlock the door of alcoholism and we are the only one's that can unlock the doors to our own prisons.
In a similar thread or post of mine someone once said something that struck me. What do I want to say? Basically it boiled down to "I won't be with an alcoholic. I won't be with someone that steals all the money in the family and drinks it away. I won't be with someone that .....xyz. "
And I felt like I had to give him fair warning - again for the millionth time??? Because I wouldn't except behavior that no person should be expected to accept? Why? It wasn't so much that I wanted to control him (and I did on some level) but that it was unbelievable that he wouldn't change if he really truly heard me. If only I said it right, at the right time, in the right way with the right words. But no. He heard. It was a matter of acceptance on my part.
You have said it a million ways and a million times with both your words and your behavior. He knows. His refusal to acknowledge it doesn't mean you have to continue to stay stuck. You've said and done it all and you are free to focus on yourself now.
And he might cry the house down or tear it apart or any number of out there things that people do when the status quo is threatened. But you carry on. Let go. We trick ourselves into thinking they have such a hold on us but it is often us that won't let go. They are the only one's that can unlock the door of alcoholism and we are the only one's that can unlock the doors to our own prisons.
Thank you Thumper. And I ABSOLUTELY love your signature quote. Perfect.
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Just my opinion, but it seems like the "fair chance" is just to buy yourself more time before having to face the choice of actually leaving. Well, that's what it meant to me. I've given that "fair chance" to him, but internally. I've set up things in my head like "Well if I get home and he's not passed out, then maybe we'll be ok down the road." Or "Maybe if I see he's been working on that whole self employment sh*t he talks about, then maybe we'll be ok." Baloney! It sounds like madness when I actually see it typed out, but I would constantly make bargains for him in my head.
The few boundaries I have in place I didn't tell him about, I just enforce them. For example, I can't talk with him while he's drunk anymore. I've totally lost my patience for that, because I'm over here worried about bills and crap. Plus, I don't want to be disrespectful so I keep my thoughts to myself. I'm at the point where debating him will solve nothing.
The few boundaries I have in place I didn't tell him about, I just enforce them. For example, I can't talk with him while he's drunk anymore. I've totally lost my patience for that, because I'm over here worried about bills and crap. Plus, I don't want to be disrespectful so I keep my thoughts to myself. I'm at the point where debating him will solve nothing.
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Originally Posted by BeachPlease
Just my opinion, but it seems like the "fair chance" is just to buy yourself more time before having to face the choice of actually leaving. Well, that's what it meant to me. I've given that "fair chance" to him, but internally. I've set up things in my head like "Well if I get home and he's not passed out, then maybe we'll be ok down the road." Or "Maybe if I see he's been working on that whole self employment sh*t he talks about, then maybe we'll be ok." Baloney! It sounds like madness when I actually see it typed out, but I would constantly make bargains for him in my head.
The few boundaries I have in place I didn't tell him about, I just enforce them. For example, I can't talk with him while he's drunk anymore. I've totally lost my patience for that, because I'm over here worried about bills and crap. Plus, I don't want to be disrespectful so I keep my thoughts to myself. I'm at the point where debating him will solve nothing.
The few boundaries I have in place I didn't tell him about, I just enforce them. For example, I can't talk with him while he's drunk anymore. I've totally lost my patience for that, because I'm over here worried about bills and crap. Plus, I don't want to be disrespectful so I keep my thoughts to myself. I'm at the point where debating him will solve nothing.
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What's to stop you from working on your exit strategy, so you are well on your way to no longer being "stuck" when you HAVE had enough? The whole point of "working on an exit strategy" is that you have that in place BEFORE you leave.
Play a head game with yourself: "If the unthinkable happened, what would make it quickest and easiest for me to walk out of here safely and independently?" Some of the things I did was to gather my paperwork, make copies of certain things. I found a friend willing to store some of the things (photos and such) that I would have been heartbroken to lose. You can start separating your finances, open your own accounts if you need to. I sorted through clothes and other stuff I'd want to take. If you have pets, figure out who could take care of them.
All that is planning stuff. Even if you're not ready to leave this minute, you will be prepared for the day you are ready to be DONE.
Play a head game with yourself: "If the unthinkable happened, what would make it quickest and easiest for me to walk out of here safely and independently?" Some of the things I did was to gather my paperwork, make copies of certain things. I found a friend willing to store some of the things (photos and such) that I would have been heartbroken to lose. You can start separating your finances, open your own accounts if you need to. I sorted through clothes and other stuff I'd want to take. If you have pets, figure out who could take care of them.
All that is planning stuff. Even if you're not ready to leave this minute, you will be prepared for the day you are ready to be DONE.
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The funny thing about being " done" is when you are done you are done. You may think you are going to be done if X,Y & Z happens again or not happens again but the truth is when you are truly done there is no looking back, there is no talking about it, there's nothing, nada, DONE.
Ya know when I was DONE with my ex husband the pill popper? When he refused to get out of my car to put gas in it and expected me to do it. Yep! That's right! You read that correctly. After all the non-stop BS that I put up with for 11 years. That was it, something so stupid, I snapped like a flippin' twig!! From that point on there was no looking back. That's it, DONE. I truly didn't care less if I had to live in a cardboard box. It was OVER, DONE.
My advise to you is to start getting your stuff in order. One can only take so much before they snap.
Good luck, keep us informed.
Ro
Ya know when I was DONE with my ex husband the pill popper? When he refused to get out of my car to put gas in it and expected me to do it. Yep! That's right! You read that correctly. After all the non-stop BS that I put up with for 11 years. That was it, something so stupid, I snapped like a flippin' twig!! From that point on there was no looking back. That's it, DONE. I truly didn't care less if I had to live in a cardboard box. It was OVER, DONE.
My advise to you is to start getting your stuff in order. One can only take so much before they snap.
Good luck, keep us informed.
Ro
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Posts: 5,103
I know, but I'm so stuck. And unprepared.
Often we mirror them and their disease. Our own actions or inactions are similar to theirs.
We use “words” to attempt to control, manipulate and threaten them into doing what we want.
They use “words” to control their environment so that they can continue to drink.
Both spinning wheels where nothing changes.
YOU need to become the change you seek and stop waiting around for it to be him making the changes.
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Thousandwords, XAH complained that I "hadn't given him a chance" when I divorced him.
We'd been together for 21 years, married for 19, and I had first talked to him about the problem drinking about 8 years ago. During that time, he pretended to go to meetings for 4 years but drank secretly. Then he actually did go but continued to drink secretly for a couple more years. For the last year or so, I pretty much didn't believe anything he told me while he continued to drink and to lie about it.
And he said on the day things were finalized, w/a straight face, in all honesty and sincerity, "you didn't have to RUSH into divorce! You didn't give me a CHANCE!"
I was struck by the insightful post here that said how this is all about buying yourself more time before you actually have to admit that things are what they are and start coping w/them. It certainly could have been applied to me too during that time...
We'd been together for 21 years, married for 19, and I had first talked to him about the problem drinking about 8 years ago. During that time, he pretended to go to meetings for 4 years but drank secretly. Then he actually did go but continued to drink secretly for a couple more years. For the last year or so, I pretty much didn't believe anything he told me while he continued to drink and to lie about it.
And he said on the day things were finalized, w/a straight face, in all honesty and sincerity, "you didn't have to RUSH into divorce! You didn't give me a CHANCE!"
I was struck by the insightful post here that said how this is all about buying yourself more time before you actually have to admit that things are what they are and start coping w/them. It certainly could have been applied to me too during that time...
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My STBXAH will *still* say to me that he "wishes we'd had a chance" when he starts to get "nostalgic" about the "good old days." *eye roll*
We had 354201369852 chances.
TW, you will reach a point, sooner or later, where you just don't care anymore. It won't matter to you if you "announce" your boundaries or not, or if you are being "fair." You will just be so, so tired of it all.
We had 354201369852 chances.
TW, you will reach a point, sooner or later, where you just don't care anymore. It won't matter to you if you "announce" your boundaries or not, or if you are being "fair." You will just be so, so tired of it all.
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