The truth
The truth
THE TRUTH:
Until we deal with WHY we are drinking (and numbing) we will NEVER stay sober for any length of time.
White knuckling it is NOT sobriety.....its white knuckling.
What a painful way to live.
I'm challenging myself & all of you to dig deep & find out WHY we need to self-medicate. Until we deal with THAT.....we will never be able to stay sober.
This is just my opinion, after YEARS of "research". Think about it friends....I am.
Until we deal with WHY we are drinking (and numbing) we will NEVER stay sober for any length of time.
White knuckling it is NOT sobriety.....its white knuckling.
What a painful way to live.
I'm challenging myself & all of you to dig deep & find out WHY we need to self-medicate. Until we deal with THAT.....we will never be able to stay sober.
This is just my opinion, after YEARS of "research". Think about it friends....I am.
I used to believe you had to know the reason why, but I don't anymore Kiki
I just accepted I was an alcoholic and I stopped drinking.
Not easy, but simple.
I was so 'clever' I see now I was using the search for the why as an excuse to keep drinking.
There's a lot of time after you get sober to work out the why, if you want to.
D
I just accepted I was an alcoholic and I stopped drinking.
Not easy, but simple.
I was so 'clever' I see now I was using the search for the why as an excuse to keep drinking.
There's a lot of time after you get sober to work out the why, if you want to.
D
I agree with both you and Dee
Those of us with underlying conditions need to deal with them in order to safeguard our sobriety. I'm on anti-depressants now, e.g. I also exercise and am working hard to address my other issues like procrastination.
But ultimately I drank the way I did because I was addicted to alcohol. Psychologically and physiologically. By remaining abstinent from alcohol I've broken that cycle. I know that my other issues will get better and worse throughout my life. But that's a completely independent thing. As long as I put no alcohol in my body, my addiction is over, even when I'm wrestling with other things. I can treat my depression but I can't prevent it from recurring. I can prevent my addiction from ever coming back.
Those of us with underlying conditions need to deal with them in order to safeguard our sobriety. I'm on anti-depressants now, e.g. I also exercise and am working hard to address my other issues like procrastination.
But ultimately I drank the way I did because I was addicted to alcohol. Psychologically and physiologically. By remaining abstinent from alcohol I've broken that cycle. I know that my other issues will get better and worse throughout my life. But that's a completely independent thing. As long as I put no alcohol in my body, my addiction is over, even when I'm wrestling with other things. I can treat my depression but I can't prevent it from recurring. I can prevent my addiction from ever coming back.
I drank because I like being drunk. I stopped because I can't stop myself from staying drunk. And I won't ever drink again, because I won't relinquish control over my own body. And as Dee said, it osn't easy, but ot's simple.
I went through a 28 day program modeled after SMART, basically the same as RR for the most part.
One of the many goals of the program was to understand when this all started and to dig to find out why, they referred to it as the dandelion effect in that we have to dig deep sometimes and pull the roots out, often the roots were unhealthy learned behaviors, the idea, and one I believe, to have a successful recovery we have to look inside and see why we may have been drinking. For me it related to burying tragic events, I had learned at a young age we do not talk about our problems we bury them, however we can only bury so much and if these feelings are not addressed they can and will pop up at some point.
Andrew
One of the many goals of the program was to understand when this all started and to dig to find out why, they referred to it as the dandelion effect in that we have to dig deep sometimes and pull the roots out, often the roots were unhealthy learned behaviors, the idea, and one I believe, to have a successful recovery we have to look inside and see why we may have been drinking. For me it related to burying tragic events, I had learned at a young age we do not talk about our problems we bury them, however we can only bury so much and if these feelings are not addressed they can and will pop up at some point.
Andrew
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Abroad
Posts: 1,865
I know what Dee said is true for very many, but in my case Kiki is right. I am not drinking because I like the taste of alcohol or because I like being drunk, I drink to hurt myself and to run from intense, unpleasant emotions and memories. I have huge, underlying issues that need to be addressed and I know that when I learn to deal with my issues in a non-destructive way, I won't need alcohol anymore. Again, this true for me.
I'l actually second that. However it is a difficult one. What Dee and others have said is true though. We do need to be (and remain) sober in order to look at the underlying issues, if there are any.
I've been hearing it for most of my life and just assumed people weren't listening to me. In reality I wasn't listening, nor was I ready. We need to be sober in order to look at the underlying issues.
It's definitely difficult when we already know that there is something. And as in my case, just don't know quite what. Plus how and why it is important. But I finally agree that we need to be sober.
I've been hearing it for most of my life and just assumed people weren't listening to me. In reality I wasn't listening, nor was I ready. We need to be sober in order to look at the underlying issues.
It's definitely difficult when we already know that there is something. And as in my case, just don't know quite what. Plus how and why it is important. But I finally agree that we need to be sober.
Sobriety didn't work for me until I understood alcohol's physiological and psychological grip on me. I was devastated that I had no control over the substance I poured down my throat. And that it created a pain in my body when I stopped. Equally, I was despondent when I realized I caused all of this turmoil to mask the feelings of self-loathing and self-hate I had avoided my entire adult life. One fuels the other, so I had to treat both.
I wouldn't like people to think that I'm suggesting that people with mental health issues* need to stop drinking before they have their problems addressed (I hate that terminology* but it's late I'm tired and I can't think of a better term)
If you have several factors causing you pain it makes sense to address all of them.
What I was talking about might be better described as 'analysis paralysis' - having convinced myself I needed to know the 'why' to stop, I went on a decades long search - that's fine, but while I was looking for the why, I kept on steadily drinking....
That's not fine - for anybody.
D
If you have several factors causing you pain it makes sense to address all of them.
What I was talking about might be better described as 'analysis paralysis' - having convinced myself I needed to know the 'why' to stop, I went on a decades long search - that's fine, but while I was looking for the why, I kept on steadily drinking....
That's not fine - for anybody.
D
I stopped and then the reasons why I drank came up like a gassy corpse from the bottom of my mental lake.
Gross, but true.
Once I stopped suppressing, I had to deal with and process a lot of issues
which wasn't easy.
Until I did, I wasn't really in recovery like Kiki said,
but I had stop drinking first to get to that point.
Gross, but true.
Once I stopped suppressing, I had to deal with and process a lot of issues
which wasn't easy.
Until I did, I wasn't really in recovery like Kiki said,
but I had stop drinking first to get to that point.
People rarely want to believe generalities apply to them personally. (i.e. I am an alcoholic, therefore I need to never drink again.)
People also like to believe that something that specifically applies to them (i.e. how I got sober) applies to everyone else.
In my experience one tends to be more true than the other. It is more common that the general applies specifically than for the specific to apply generally.
People also like to believe that something that specifically applies to them (i.e. how I got sober) applies to everyone else.
In my experience one tends to be more true than the other. It is more common that the general applies specifically than for the specific to apply generally.
I can see The Truth in two aspects being highlighted here;
1 - For a long time, I used "why" as a rationale to keep drinking. "If I can figure out WHY I'm drinking... then I can keep drinking. I just have to 'treat' the why so that I can drink like a 'normal' person.
2 - After I finally accepted that I was drinking - at this stage in my alcoholic journey - PRIMARILY because I was addicted to alcohol, I was able to recognize and accept that I was drinking simply and foremost because I was an alcoholic. I could never 'reset the system' and drink normally. Once I accepted that, and set it aside.... I did indeed find that beneath that alcoholic reality were many of the "why's" that had led me into alcoholism to begin with. I had self-esteem issues. I had anxiety issues. I struggled with mild depression at times. I was carrying emotional wounds which I had never fully dealt with. I was unhappy with some core things in my life. I had never really developed mature ways of looking at and coping with life in general. So, with some sober time under my belt I began to see these things and to begin to deal with them through life changes, therapy, supplements and healthy living. I may yet wind up trying medication at some stage for my seasonal depression issues, though I have really been focused on addressing that through non-medication pathways.
SO.... bottom line is that I really do believe that the "why" is important, as it pertains to the root issues that led us into our alcoholic journey. But, I believe that the "WHY" question can be a dangerous excuse that can keep us from sobriety for a long time. "Why" is best explored with some sober time and a structure of sobriety already established in one's life - and then should be approached as a way of deepening sobriety and enriching life - not as a means to try and find a way to drink normally.
1 - For a long time, I used "why" as a rationale to keep drinking. "If I can figure out WHY I'm drinking... then I can keep drinking. I just have to 'treat' the why so that I can drink like a 'normal' person.
2 - After I finally accepted that I was drinking - at this stage in my alcoholic journey - PRIMARILY because I was addicted to alcohol, I was able to recognize and accept that I was drinking simply and foremost because I was an alcoholic. I could never 'reset the system' and drink normally. Once I accepted that, and set it aside.... I did indeed find that beneath that alcoholic reality were many of the "why's" that had led me into alcoholism to begin with. I had self-esteem issues. I had anxiety issues. I struggled with mild depression at times. I was carrying emotional wounds which I had never fully dealt with. I was unhappy with some core things in my life. I had never really developed mature ways of looking at and coping with life in general. So, with some sober time under my belt I began to see these things and to begin to deal with them through life changes, therapy, supplements and healthy living. I may yet wind up trying medication at some stage for my seasonal depression issues, though I have really been focused on addressing that through non-medication pathways.
SO.... bottom line is that I really do believe that the "why" is important, as it pertains to the root issues that led us into our alcoholic journey. But, I believe that the "WHY" question can be a dangerous excuse that can keep us from sobriety for a long time. "Why" is best explored with some sober time and a structure of sobriety already established in one's life - and then should be approached as a way of deepening sobriety and enriching life - not as a means to try and find a way to drink normally.
I wanted a life of pleasure without one moment of discomfort or pain .
I read all the books and tomes not one single one did anything for my pain, stood on my head , prostrated myself . nothing helped .
I just accepted it , everything .. when you accept what is, the questions go away and also the frustration and burden of carrying them .
I have no questions , most people don't want to accept the answers they already have so they procrastinate and put themselves through all kinds of torture .
just give it up and go do something more interesting ..
m
I read all the books and tomes not one single one did anything for my pain, stood on my head , prostrated myself . nothing helped .
I just accepted it , everything .. when you accept what is, the questions go away and also the frustration and burden of carrying them .
I have no questions , most people don't want to accept the answers they already have so they procrastinate and put themselves through all kinds of torture .
just give it up and go do something more interesting ..
m
I agree with both of you too.
I remember when I first went to counseling years back and was trying to find the reasons I drank, what I heard from my counselor in return was "Why does it matter?" Often I believe it is true, we think in the back of our minds somehow if we can justify and remove the reason then we have an excuse to drink.
That may be true for some but I am going to be entering counseling again not to remove the reasons so I can drink. It's to find them to work on them to give myself a better, healthier, sober life. If I don't address the issues then I'm not healthy. If I'm not healthy that's not good for my sobriety.
In finality, I think it's what the motivation is for finding the answer. That can be a sticky wicket for some but for me, this time, it's to get healthy.
I remember when I first went to counseling years back and was trying to find the reasons I drank, what I heard from my counselor in return was "Why does it matter?" Often I believe it is true, we think in the back of our minds somehow if we can justify and remove the reason then we have an excuse to drink.
That may be true for some but I am going to be entering counseling again not to remove the reasons so I can drink. It's to find them to work on them to give myself a better, healthier, sober life. If I don't address the issues then I'm not healthy. If I'm not healthy that's not good for my sobriety.
In finality, I think it's what the motivation is for finding the answer. That can be a sticky wicket for some but for me, this time, it's to get healthy.
Drinking alcohol was killing me. What mattered most was for me to just stop drinking it. I think it is probably wise to engage in some introspection as to why I was doing g such a stupid thing (drinking poison) but nothing would have mattered if I didn't stop. I was a self-aware drunk for decades and it didn't help me stay sober one bit. What worked was to stubbornly refuse to pour alcohol do not my throat no matter how I felt about it. Once I was sober a while I could think clearly.
I stopped and then the reasons why I drank came up like a gassy corpse from the bottom of my mental lake.
Gross, but true.
Once I stopped suppressing, I had to deal with and process a lot of issues
which wasn't easy.
Until I did, I wasn't really in recovery like Kiki said,
but I had stop drinking first to get to that point.
Gross, but true.
Once I stopped suppressing, I had to deal with and process a lot of issues
which wasn't easy.
Until I did, I wasn't really in recovery like Kiki said,
but I had stop drinking first to get to that point.
Abstinence is the starting point. All growth is dependent on sobriety but alcoholism is but a symptom of our underlying problems. We have to deal with our demons so we can build a rich and full life in sobriety
I take comfort in Dee's advice here. It's not important that we figure everything out in order to stop drinking. That would make me spin around in circles needlessly. Since drinking is the problem, that must be addressed first. Then there is time to figure out the whys and the reasons for everything.
For me, I know that alcohol provided a pleasant buzz going way back to when I was in college. I think that's the reason why I drank - for the buzz and the escape. Sure there are underlying reasons following my divorce when I abused alcohol more, but the primary reason was because I liked it. And I'm genetically wired that way (to want to keep drinking once I start).
Interesting thread - good stuff all around.
For me, I know that alcohol provided a pleasant buzz going way back to when I was in college. I think that's the reason why I drank - for the buzz and the escape. Sure there are underlying reasons following my divorce when I abused alcohol more, but the primary reason was because I liked it. And I'm genetically wired that way (to want to keep drinking once I start).
Interesting thread - good stuff all around.
My alcoholism took on a life of its own over time, so I'm coming round to the idea of treating it as it's own issue (to say trauma counselling) while also being aware that they are linked.
I can see The Truth in two aspects being highlighted here;
1 - For a long time, I used "why" as a rationale to keep drinking. "If I can figure out WHY I'm drinking... then I can keep drinking. I just have to 'treat' the why so that I can drink like a 'normal' person.
2 - After I finally accepted that I was drinking - at this stage in my alcoholic journey - PRIMARILY because I was addicted to alcohol, I was able to recognize and accept that I was drinking simply and foremost because I was an alcoholic. I could never 'reset the system' and drink normally. Once I accepted that, and set it aside.... I did indeed find that beneath that alcoholic reality were many of the "why's" that had led me into alcoholism to begin with. I had self-esteem issues. I had anxiety issues. I struggled with mild depression at times. I was carrying emotional wounds which I had never fully dealt with. I was unhappy with some core things in my life. I had never really developed mature ways of looking at and coping with life in general. So, with some sober time under my belt I began to see these things and to begin to deal with them through life changes, therapy, supplements and healthy living. I may yet wind up trying medication at some stage for my seasonal depression issues, though I have really been focused on addressing that through non-medication pathways.
SO.... bottom line is that I really do believe that the "why" is important, as it pertains to the root issues that led us into our alcoholic journey. But, I believe that the "WHY" question can be a dangerous excuse that can keep us from sobriety for a long time. "Why" is best explored with some sober time and a structure of sobriety already established in one's life - and then should be approached as a way of deepening sobriety and enriching life - not as a means to try and find a way to drink normally.
1 - For a long time, I used "why" as a rationale to keep drinking. "If I can figure out WHY I'm drinking... then I can keep drinking. I just have to 'treat' the why so that I can drink like a 'normal' person.
2 - After I finally accepted that I was drinking - at this stage in my alcoholic journey - PRIMARILY because I was addicted to alcohol, I was able to recognize and accept that I was drinking simply and foremost because I was an alcoholic. I could never 'reset the system' and drink normally. Once I accepted that, and set it aside.... I did indeed find that beneath that alcoholic reality were many of the "why's" that had led me into alcoholism to begin with. I had self-esteem issues. I had anxiety issues. I struggled with mild depression at times. I was carrying emotional wounds which I had never fully dealt with. I was unhappy with some core things in my life. I had never really developed mature ways of looking at and coping with life in general. So, with some sober time under my belt I began to see these things and to begin to deal with them through life changes, therapy, supplements and healthy living. I may yet wind up trying medication at some stage for my seasonal depression issues, though I have really been focused on addressing that through non-medication pathways.
SO.... bottom line is that I really do believe that the "why" is important, as it pertains to the root issues that led us into our alcoholic journey. But, I believe that the "WHY" question can be a dangerous excuse that can keep us from sobriety for a long time. "Why" is best explored with some sober time and a structure of sobriety already established in one's life - and then should be approached as a way of deepening sobriety and enriching life - not as a means to try and find a way to drink normally.
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