Strength Needed Friends.....
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Strength Needed Friends.....
Hello, I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.
Most of you know my back story. Ongoing battle with my X over his drinking around my kids when he is not allowed. Had kids in counseling for a long time (they are age 16 and 10), to get them to a better place.
On Xmas eve, things went fine when kids were at X's house...until his fiancé had to leave. She was going to her parents for a while, then going to meet my children and their father, with a lot of the rest of their family, a little later. He immediately starts needing to use the bathroom every five seconds, code for, running to his hidden stash of whiskey to drink it up. So, my daughter is the driver. I own the car, it's hers to drive. They were coming back to my home later, so she was to drive her sister and father to the family gathering.
He apparently sat in the back seat and proceeded to drink, IN HER CAR, on the way there. He was going on and on about how bad his life is, and that he hates his job so badly he should just come home and drown himself in the sink. Heavy stuff for kids to hear. He also proceeds to make a fool of himself at the family event, embarrassing my kids also. When my daughter realized he was drinking, they were driving on very bad roads, out in the middle of no where, with no cell phone signal. She did not know what to do.
They proceeded home, and told me abut it. I did not say anything until Monday as I knew he had to work 12 hour shifts from Xmas until then, and would have to sleep. Nor did I want to have conflict over the rest of the holiday, where my kids were home safe with me.
Yesterday, my oldest daughter texts him and says they will not be coming over this weekend due to what happened on Xmas eve. They fought all day long, he said he will call the police and file for contempt of court, which is fine w/me. He then says he wants to terminate his parental rights. I get him to agree to terminate visitation for a six month time during which he will go to counseling to see if he can salvage the relationship with our kids. I even agree to suspend Child Support during that time. At this point, I am desperate. My daughters are so hurt by all of this. He says ok, have your attorney draw it up, and send it to my attorney and I will sign it.
Well today, it's don't send anything, I am not signing anything. I am so sick of this. I am not sending my kids this weekend. He can just go ahead and file for contempt of court. I am sick to death of him drinking around my kids when he is COURT ORDERED not to. His fiancé also said that her attorney advised her that since my little DD has anxiety that she should be medicated and that I am neglecting her by not having her medicated. OMG. I have taken my daughter to counseling forever. She has anxiety around her dad. It's not her that needs a pill, it's him!
So everyone has advised me to make the counseling apt, tell him when it is, and that be the only communication I have with him at all. To not send my kids, and let him file for contempt b/c he is in contempt all the time by drinking around my kids.
All thoughts and any support is surely welcome! If you have read this far, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that.
Most of you know my back story. Ongoing battle with my X over his drinking around my kids when he is not allowed. Had kids in counseling for a long time (they are age 16 and 10), to get them to a better place.
On Xmas eve, things went fine when kids were at X's house...until his fiancé had to leave. She was going to her parents for a while, then going to meet my children and their father, with a lot of the rest of their family, a little later. He immediately starts needing to use the bathroom every five seconds, code for, running to his hidden stash of whiskey to drink it up. So, my daughter is the driver. I own the car, it's hers to drive. They were coming back to my home later, so she was to drive her sister and father to the family gathering.
He apparently sat in the back seat and proceeded to drink, IN HER CAR, on the way there. He was going on and on about how bad his life is, and that he hates his job so badly he should just come home and drown himself in the sink. Heavy stuff for kids to hear. He also proceeds to make a fool of himself at the family event, embarrassing my kids also. When my daughter realized he was drinking, they were driving on very bad roads, out in the middle of no where, with no cell phone signal. She did not know what to do.
They proceeded home, and told me abut it. I did not say anything until Monday as I knew he had to work 12 hour shifts from Xmas until then, and would have to sleep. Nor did I want to have conflict over the rest of the holiday, where my kids were home safe with me.
Yesterday, my oldest daughter texts him and says they will not be coming over this weekend due to what happened on Xmas eve. They fought all day long, he said he will call the police and file for contempt of court, which is fine w/me. He then says he wants to terminate his parental rights. I get him to agree to terminate visitation for a six month time during which he will go to counseling to see if he can salvage the relationship with our kids. I even agree to suspend Child Support during that time. At this point, I am desperate. My daughters are so hurt by all of this. He says ok, have your attorney draw it up, and send it to my attorney and I will sign it.
Well today, it's don't send anything, I am not signing anything. I am so sick of this. I am not sending my kids this weekend. He can just go ahead and file for contempt of court. I am sick to death of him drinking around my kids when he is COURT ORDERED not to. His fiancé also said that her attorney advised her that since my little DD has anxiety that she should be medicated and that I am neglecting her by not having her medicated. OMG. I have taken my daughter to counseling forever. She has anxiety around her dad. It's not her that needs a pill, it's him!
So everyone has advised me to make the counseling apt, tell him when it is, and that be the only communication I have with him at all. To not send my kids, and let him file for contempt b/c he is in contempt all the time by drinking around my kids.
All thoughts and any support is surely welcome! If you have read this far, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
File a police report about him drinking in the car while your daughter drove. The "fiance" is too sick to continue to continue functioning as a safety net for your daughters. "Her lawyer says," Really? Whatever.
I continually had to deal with my ex's wife trying to insert herself into the custody case. It's all part of the smoke and mirrors act. She has no legal standing here. Let her make noise. Wear herself out.
Enough is enough.
I don't know about MO, but here in IA the court has to decide whether parental rights are terminated, even if both parties agree. He might think that it will save him from having to pay child support, but that's not how it works here.
So sorry. I know you were anticipating this, but that doesn't make it any easier.
I continually had to deal with my ex's wife trying to insert herself into the custody case. It's all part of the smoke and mirrors act. She has no legal standing here. Let her make noise. Wear herself out.
Enough is enough.
I don't know about MO, but here in IA the court has to decide whether parental rights are terminated, even if both parties agree. He might think that it will save him from having to pay child support, but that's not how it works here.
So sorry. I know you were anticipating this, but that doesn't make it any easier.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Sounds like he is quacking really loudly.
I am pretty sure that in most States, kids over a certain age can refuse to visit a parent and since your children witnessed his drinking, I cannot think of one judge in his/her right mind who would hold you in contempt of court. If nothing else, since the court ordered he be sober around them, he might be the one getting in trouble.
His fiance's attorney is not a doctor and from your post, it sounds like he does not get wasted (yet) in front of her so she has no idea. Your kid has good reasons to be anxious around her drunken father!
Anyway, here is a big hug to you
and a smile
I am pretty sure that in most States, kids over a certain age can refuse to visit a parent and since your children witnessed his drinking, I cannot think of one judge in his/her right mind who would hold you in contempt of court. If nothing else, since the court ordered he be sober around them, he might be the one getting in trouble.
His fiance's attorney is not a doctor and from your post, it sounds like he does not get wasted (yet) in front of her so she has no idea. Your kid has good reasons to be anxious around her drunken father!
Anyway, here is a big hug to you
and a smile
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Hugs to you Hopeful....
what a d1ck he is!
How horrible for your daughters to have to deal with on Christmas Eve.
I wouldn't send them either... Let him do what he's going to do... which I'm sure is nothing but a whole lot of quacking and no action...
Can you report this all to your attorney or to the Family Court and have his visits terminated or amended to be supervised only?
what a d1ck he is!
How horrible for your daughters to have to deal with on Christmas Eve.
I wouldn't send them either... Let him do what he's going to do... which I'm sure is nothing but a whole lot of quacking and no action...
Can you report this all to your attorney or to the Family Court and have his visits terminated or amended to be supervised only?
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
I know you know this but it bears repeating-the smoke and mirrors is pretty disgusting....they will try to do anything - anything- so that the drinking is not an issue. My oldest has many fears and anxieties bc of the way her dad has treated her....and way before the divorce as well. That's not my fault and it's not hers either-it's his. I'm so sorry, friend. Stay strong-and keep your kids away from him as he has proven to not be responsible or safe at all. Peace to you, always.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Thank you all. I did report the drinking to my attorney, however, you will be surprised to know, in the state I reside, drinking in the car with a minor is not a crime. Nice eh?!
I am waiting to see if he actually files for contempt of court. If he does, I will go forward with all I have. I refuse to let my girls be around him while he is in this filthy cycle he is in. I have been assured it would be almost impossible for me to get supervised visitation. They would order him into outpatient treatment (big whoop, he was a leader in CR for years, it did NOTHING for him), and order him to counseling with the kids, which is what I am currently hoping he will do.
I don't know. It has gotten me down big time this time. I don't even know why. I am just tired. I realize it's a cycle that will never stop. Seeing the sad and broken look on my little DD's face just broke me. I have never hated anyone like I hate him. Ugh.
Thank you for posting and supporting me, you are a wonderful group of friends!
XXX
I am waiting to see if he actually files for contempt of court. If he does, I will go forward with all I have. I refuse to let my girls be around him while he is in this filthy cycle he is in. I have been assured it would be almost impossible for me to get supervised visitation. They would order him into outpatient treatment (big whoop, he was a leader in CR for years, it did NOTHING for him), and order him to counseling with the kids, which is what I am currently hoping he will do.
I don't know. It has gotten me down big time this time. I don't even know why. I am just tired. I realize it's a cycle that will never stop. Seeing the sad and broken look on my little DD's face just broke me. I have never hated anyone like I hate him. Ugh.
Thank you for posting and supporting me, you are a wonderful group of friends!
XXX
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Thank you all. I did report the drinking to my attorney, however, you will be surprised to know, in the state I reside, drinking in the car with a minor is not a crime. Nice eh?!
Wow. That's a pretty massive loophole. I guess I was thinking of the open container law. Does that mean a drunk parent can be chauffeured around by a kid with a learner's permit? Seems insane.
He has progressed pretty far down since he was in CR though. He will be less able to put on a show of recovery now, if it comes to that. I know that's probably cold comfort.
So sorry your daughters are experiencing this. Glad they have a strong mom to guide them through this time.
Wow. That's a pretty massive loophole. I guess I was thinking of the open container law. Does that mean a drunk parent can be chauffeured around by a kid with a learner's permit? Seems insane.
He has progressed pretty far down since he was in CR though. He will be less able to put on a show of recovery now, if it comes to that. I know that's probably cold comfort.
So sorry your daughters are experiencing this. Glad they have a strong mom to guide them through this time.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
He really IS a piece of work. Ladyscribbler already said most of what I would say.
Any chance your older daughter could tell the judge how she felt being out on that lonely road with her dad drinking, how scared her sister is by it, and how she feels obligated to go to DrunkDad's house for the sake of her little sister?
Any chance your older daughter could tell the judge how she felt being out on that lonely road with her dad drinking, how scared her sister is by it, and how she feels obligated to go to DrunkDad's house for the sake of her little sister?
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
I think it would hurt your girls more in the long run if they felt forced to go to their Dad's. You are their advocate, they have to know you have their back. Maybe it's ok to drink in the car with a minor, but if the adult is DRUNK and the minor is SCARED and feels TRAPPED....surely a judge will hear that.
Kudos to you for doing what is right for your girls.
Kudos to you for doing what is right for your girls.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Hi hopeful, I just wanted to say hi and send support. What an awesome job letting the issue sit so you could enjoy the rest of your holiday with the kids. 
I'd just like to say what so many people told me and I'm sure you've already considered-- don't let him off the child support hook. I thought "but you don't know how crazy this is and it would be worth it just to be done!" But the legal advice I got said that he could agree to no custody and no child support, then come back for visitation and the courts would grant it...and I'd have a hard time making a case for the money at that time.
I SO understand how you're feeling...
What I ended up doing was agreeing to reduce child support more than necessary (he changed jobs) in exchange for him giving up mandatory visits. The language now says that "if the kids request of both parents" they can go to his place.
My lawyer didn't like it financially. He said I was giving up too much, but it's bought me 2 years of peace. And X doesn't care enough to fight because I won't discuss custody without cash...so we'd be in court and he can't afford it. AND my kids are almost 16 and 14, so just like yours, it seems silly to force someone WHO CAN JUST DRIVE AWAY to do something. It's not mom's fault.
Stick to your guns and let him bring it. My kids refused to go to their dad's too before we reworked the custody. He threatened and threatened, but at the end of the day, he didn't want a court psychiatrist telling him WHY his kids refused to see him--so nothing came of it. It was a scare tactic to make me live in fear of that darned "parental alienation".
IMHO, that's very often self-induced.
I'd just like to say what so many people told me and I'm sure you've already considered-- don't let him off the child support hook. I thought "but you don't know how crazy this is and it would be worth it just to be done!" But the legal advice I got said that he could agree to no custody and no child support, then come back for visitation and the courts would grant it...and I'd have a hard time making a case for the money at that time.
I SO understand how you're feeling...
What I ended up doing was agreeing to reduce child support more than necessary (he changed jobs) in exchange for him giving up mandatory visits. The language now says that "if the kids request of both parents" they can go to his place.
My lawyer didn't like it financially. He said I was giving up too much, but it's bought me 2 years of peace. And X doesn't care enough to fight because I won't discuss custody without cash...so we'd be in court and he can't afford it. AND my kids are almost 16 and 14, so just like yours, it seems silly to force someone WHO CAN JUST DRIVE AWAY to do something. It's not mom's fault.
Stick to your guns and let him bring it. My kids refused to go to their dad's too before we reworked the custody. He threatened and threatened, but at the end of the day, he didn't want a court psychiatrist telling him WHY his kids refused to see him--so nothing came of it. It was a scare tactic to make me live in fear of that darned "parental alienation".
IMHO, that's very often self-induced.
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I'm so sorry, Hopeful. That must have been absolutely awful for your girls. I can't even imagine.
It sounds like you've got your head and heart in the right place, and you're getting good advice from others here. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you're girls (and you). I know what you mean about that "cycle that will never stop". It's not only sad. It's exhausting.
(((((( hugs )))))))
It sounds like you've got your head and heart in the right place, and you're getting good advice from others here. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you're girls (and you). I know what you mean about that "cycle that will never stop". It's not only sad. It's exhausting.
(((((( hugs )))))))
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
I am sorry too, hopeful, but is it possible that he is just bluffing or saying these things to **** you off? There is this thing when people pee-pee against the wind, it usually blows back into their face. And I think he is doing exactly this, just doing things to be hurtful.
Sending many hugs
Sending many hugs
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Thank you angels for all of your support.
Yup, he was pi$$ing in the wind. Today he comes back and says he will "LET" my older daughter choose not to come, but he wants little DD there by six on Friday. Boy did I tell him a few things. I stood up to him and told him that it's her choice when she comes, not his, and if he does not like that, I will gladly see him in court when he files for contempt. And to keep in mind, I have my own contempt charges to bring. Bring it, I am ready.
He backed down really quick. All of a sudden wants to "compromise." Little DD, who is much closer to her father, made the agreement with him to go during the day only on Saturday. She has written him a long letter. This is HUGE progress. Her counselor has tried to get her to write this letter for months...all of a sudden last night she said she was ready and wrote it. I am so super proud of her in her own healing, and made sure to tell her.
She was sad when I got home last night, and older DD had plans. So I took little DD to the mall to spend some of her Christmas loot, and out to dinner. We both told her father we did not want to speak to him for the rest of the night, that we had plans. It ended up being a nice evening.
I have made sure she understands I won't make her go this weekend if she does not want to, that it's up to her. I have made sure he understands that as well. I am done messing around, I have given him every chance to step up as a father, he has made his bed, now he can just simmer in his own $hit. LOL.
What I left out is that the next time they visit him, it will be the weekend he gets married. They are supposto be in his wedding. We will see how that pans out, I am staying far, far away from that issue.
Again, that you all for your wonderful support. And to follow up, yes, in this state, it is completely legal for a grown adult to have their own child driving them around while they drink. I know this for complete fact, my sister is the police and has many, many years of experience and works for the state police. Isn't that nice? Good grief.
Yup, he was pi$$ing in the wind. Today he comes back and says he will "LET" my older daughter choose not to come, but he wants little DD there by six on Friday. Boy did I tell him a few things. I stood up to him and told him that it's her choice when she comes, not his, and if he does not like that, I will gladly see him in court when he files for contempt. And to keep in mind, I have my own contempt charges to bring. Bring it, I am ready.
He backed down really quick. All of a sudden wants to "compromise." Little DD, who is much closer to her father, made the agreement with him to go during the day only on Saturday. She has written him a long letter. This is HUGE progress. Her counselor has tried to get her to write this letter for months...all of a sudden last night she said she was ready and wrote it. I am so super proud of her in her own healing, and made sure to tell her.
She was sad when I got home last night, and older DD had plans. So I took little DD to the mall to spend some of her Christmas loot, and out to dinner. We both told her father we did not want to speak to him for the rest of the night, that we had plans. It ended up being a nice evening.
I have made sure she understands I won't make her go this weekend if she does not want to, that it's up to her. I have made sure he understands that as well. I am done messing around, I have given him every chance to step up as a father, he has made his bed, now he can just simmer in his own $hit. LOL.
What I left out is that the next time they visit him, it will be the weekend he gets married. They are supposto be in his wedding. We will see how that pans out, I am staying far, far away from that issue.
Again, that you all for your wonderful support. And to follow up, yes, in this state, it is completely legal for a grown adult to have their own child driving them around while they drink. I know this for complete fact, my sister is the police and has many, many years of experience and works for the state police. Isn't that nice? Good grief.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
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Hopeful-I'd be extremely cautious with the wedding. You know what weddings entail....
Do what you need to do to keep your kids safe. He's made his bed, he can lay in the mess HE created. Tough s$$t. Grow up, dude. Btdt. Hugs to you, my friend. Many more blessings coming your way in the new year-I feel it!!
Do what you need to do to keep your kids safe. He's made his bed, he can lay in the mess HE created. Tough s$$t. Grow up, dude. Btdt. Hugs to you, my friend. Many more blessings coming your way in the new year-I feel it!!
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Lexie, I am not sure. They definitely wanted to be in the wedding. My (or I guess his) niece got married over the summer and they were in that wedding and loved it, and they love his family, so I think they were looking forward to it. I definitely will not allow them to be forced to be in it if they don't want to, but I am leaving it up to them b/c I try to be careful that they don't do things out of feeling loyalty to me. I want them to do what is best for them, and that is what I've told them.
Their father hates that they are putting up boundaries, but he sees it, and can do with it what he wants. I told him that the thing is, I will have a relationship with the kids my entire life. He can only force them to have a relationship w/him until they are 17, if even. (That's the magic age in this state). So he has to decide if he wants that or not, b/c they have reached their limit, just like I had.
Their father hates that they are putting up boundaries, but he sees it, and can do with it what he wants. I told him that the thing is, I will have a relationship with the kids my entire life. He can only force them to have a relationship w/him until they are 17, if even. (That's the magic age in this state). So he has to decide if he wants that or not, b/c they have reached their limit, just like I had.
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