Mind Games
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Mind Games
Hi all hope you are keeping well.
I have been feeling that my AH drink problem is all my fault in that maybe I was so hard to live with that I pushed him to drink so much even though he never actually said that his drinking was all my fault. I was speaking to my friend about it (her father was also an A) and she was saying that he wants me to feel like that that it is all mind games and that if I was really that hard to live with that he could have left anytime but he didn't he kept coming back and wanted me to "put up and shut up". Have any of you felt like this or have any RA's made their loved ones feel like this? Is it normal to feel like this?
I have been feeling that my AH drink problem is all my fault in that maybe I was so hard to live with that I pushed him to drink so much even though he never actually said that his drinking was all my fault. I was speaking to my friend about it (her father was also an A) and she was saying that he wants me to feel like that that it is all mind games and that if I was really that hard to live with that he could have left anytime but he didn't he kept coming back and wanted me to "put up and shut up". Have any of you felt like this or have any RA's made their loved ones feel like this? Is it normal to feel like this?
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Hi Tangled. Sorry for what you are going through.
Nothing that you have written is uncommon. Yes often times the sober spouses DO feel it is their fault.
You have two things going on here - I don't think you really understand alcoholism, and I believe you have an issue with codependency. Codepency is usually a part of an alcoholics life. "the fixer" aka the codependent, tries to fix the problem. When they cannot they come to the conclusion that the problem is them so they go further trying "to fix" the problem. Alcoholics will blame anyone or anything but themselves for the reason they drink. This is what we call "blame-shifting" and denial.
I am not sure that your husbands intent is to play mind games with you. The mind game the alcoholic plays is with himself. If he can lay in a bed of denial that he is alcoholic, excuse his behavior, blame something or someone else, then in his mind he doesn't have to do anything about it, there is nothing wrong with him!!! Its all someone else's fault!
You have no more power over his drinking than you have to force him to eat 2 dozen doughnuts. Nobody has the power to force people to drink, what to drink, or how much to drink. You friend is correct, if the situation was not conducive for him to live with you he could leave. Yes, he wants to come back but under his terms - he gets to drink as much as he wants and you shut up about it.
I suggest you spend some time on the boards and really educate yourself about what you are dealing with. Al Anon would be a great place for you to address your codepency.
Nothing that you have written is uncommon. Yes often times the sober spouses DO feel it is their fault.
You have two things going on here - I don't think you really understand alcoholism, and I believe you have an issue with codependency. Codepency is usually a part of an alcoholics life. "the fixer" aka the codependent, tries to fix the problem. When they cannot they come to the conclusion that the problem is them so they go further trying "to fix" the problem. Alcoholics will blame anyone or anything but themselves for the reason they drink. This is what we call "blame-shifting" and denial.
I am not sure that your husbands intent is to play mind games with you. The mind game the alcoholic plays is with himself. If he can lay in a bed of denial that he is alcoholic, excuse his behavior, blame something or someone else, then in his mind he doesn't have to do anything about it, there is nothing wrong with him!!! Its all someone else's fault!
You have no more power over his drinking than you have to force him to eat 2 dozen doughnuts. Nobody has the power to force people to drink, what to drink, or how much to drink. You friend is correct, if the situation was not conducive for him to live with you he could leave. Yes, he wants to come back but under his terms - he gets to drink as much as he wants and you shut up about it.
I suggest you spend some time on the boards and really educate yourself about what you are dealing with. Al Anon would be a great place for you to address your codepency.
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Tangled, you could be getting this back to front.
You may be hard to live with because of the stress caused by his alcoholism, or being difficult might be speaking up against his drinking.
Many A's find their spouses difficult to live with if they stand in between them and their alcohol.
This is an issue you're probably never going to agree with your A on; think about where you'll be in a few years if still in this situation.
You may be hard to live with because of the stress caused by his alcoholism, or being difficult might be speaking up against his drinking.
Many A's find their spouses difficult to live with if they stand in between them and their alcohol.
This is an issue you're probably never going to agree with your A on; think about where you'll be in a few years if still in this situation.
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Thank you for the reply.
I still haven't gone to an alanon meeting as my therapist has said I'm not strong enough yet but I think I'm gonna go anyway. I got some books from the library and I'm trying to read them and learn as much as I can about alcoholism.
I never thought of myself as codependant probably because I didn't know what it meant but after reading your post I now think I definitely am as I have done everything I can to help but then just came to the conclusion that it must be me!
For a long time nobody knew what I was going through or the extent of what I was putting up with until I couldn't take it anymore. But AH isn't taking any responsibility for the marriage break down and is just saying that it wasn't working and we weren't getting on nothing to do with drink of course! His friends have tried to talk to him about his drinking and he is just saying that he doesn't have a problem that he can take it or leave it! What annoys me the most is that they will still go out and meet him in bars which I wish they wouldn't as I feel they are just enabling him and not helping.
He has been gone since April and doesn't want to sign a separation agreement and I don't want to push him as he is still paying the mortgage so I don't want to rock the boat! I have told him that I need to get on with my life and try make a life for myself and dd as we didn't have much of a life with him but of course he said you are not allowed to meet anyone else and just laughed as if he was making a joke. His attitude just drives me mad!
Sorry just needed to vent.
I still haven't gone to an alanon meeting as my therapist has said I'm not strong enough yet but I think I'm gonna go anyway. I got some books from the library and I'm trying to read them and learn as much as I can about alcoholism.
I never thought of myself as codependant probably because I didn't know what it meant but after reading your post I now think I definitely am as I have done everything I can to help but then just came to the conclusion that it must be me!
For a long time nobody knew what I was going through or the extent of what I was putting up with until I couldn't take it anymore. But AH isn't taking any responsibility for the marriage break down and is just saying that it wasn't working and we weren't getting on nothing to do with drink of course! His friends have tried to talk to him about his drinking and he is just saying that he doesn't have a problem that he can take it or leave it! What annoys me the most is that they will still go out and meet him in bars which I wish they wouldn't as I feel they are just enabling him and not helping.
He has been gone since April and doesn't want to sign a separation agreement and I don't want to push him as he is still paying the mortgage so I don't want to rock the boat! I have told him that I need to get on with my life and try make a life for myself and dd as we didn't have much of a life with him but of course he said you are not allowed to meet anyone else and just laughed as if he was making a joke. His attitude just drives me mad!
Sorry just needed to vent.
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I don't know your particular situation that the Counselor would suggest not to go that's some odd advice. For me Al Anon was the key to setting me free of my own co-dependency (I didn't think I was).
Don't worry about his friends dear. Whether they meet him in a bar or not is not a metric to gauge whether he will drink or not. My guess is company is not required for your AH to drink. Friends may observe a problem, but because they don't live with him don't get the full story. A lot of people advise moderation because they don't get alcoholism and/or apply their own abilities to everyone because they aren't alcoholics.
it sounds that you are ready to leave the marriage. Have you contacted an attorney to find out what the situation is? I understand he is paying the mortgage, but in reality he doesn't get to keep you under his thumb and make choices in your life about your present or future unless you let him.
Don't worry about his friends dear. Whether they meet him in a bar or not is not a metric to gauge whether he will drink or not. My guess is company is not required for your AH to drink. Friends may observe a problem, but because they don't live with him don't get the full story. A lot of people advise moderation because they don't get alcoholism and/or apply their own abilities to everyone because they aren't alcoholics.
it sounds that you are ready to leave the marriage. Have you contacted an attorney to find out what the situation is? I understand he is paying the mortgage, but in reality he doesn't get to keep you under his thumb and make choices in your life about your present or future unless you let him.
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Yes Feeling Great you are probably right I have screamed, shouted, cried, spoken to him calmly about what he is doing to himself and to us, told him I was scared about what would happen to him, tried to get his family to help, made him go to see a doctor and numerous therapists, have gotten RA's to try and speak to him I never gave up and I never gave in it just wasn't in me to ignore it and let him away with it and all to no avail! In the end I was the one that ended up sick and he is still drinking! I just couldn't live with it anymore.
My Therapist agreed that Alanon is very good but don't know why she said I'm not strong enough yet. Maybe because I was and sometimes still am completely broken and more often than not in tears.
I don't want to end the marriage but I feel I have no choice. Yes I have got some legal advice but for now I am just happy that myself and dd are secure and still able to stay in our home at least for another while. Right now I don't care what he does I'm just trying to do the right thing for myself and dd and make us happy.
My Therapist agreed that Alanon is very good but don't know why she said I'm not strong enough yet. Maybe because I was and sometimes still am completely broken and more often than not in tears.
I don't want to end the marriage but I feel I have no choice. Yes I have got some legal advice but for now I am just happy that myself and dd are secure and still able to stay in our home at least for another while. Right now I don't care what he does I'm just trying to do the right thing for myself and dd and make us happy.
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Originally Posted by Tangled34 
My Therapist agreed that Alanon is very good but don't know why she said I'm not strong enough yet. Maybe because I was and sometimes still am completely broken and more often than not in tears.
If you search here for stories about "my first Alanon meeting", I think you'll see there is no reason for you not to go, and quite possibly every reason for you TO go.
Wishing you strength and clarity.
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Originally Posted by Tangled34
I don't want to end the marriage but I feel I have no choice. Yes I have got some legal advice but for now I am just happy that myself and dd are secure and still able to stay in our home at least for another while. Right now I don't care what he does I'm just trying to do the right thing for myself and dd and make us happy.
Eventually you'll get to the crunch point and it will be much better for you if many of the practicalities have been taken care of.
All the best with the therapy and Al-anon if you decide to go. You're doing the work and I'm sure it's going to pay off for you.
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Tangled
Hi,
I myself need to go to Alnon when I first went I was so angry that I couldn't grasp the point. Then I went back a second time an it was still hard but for some strange reason I felt better. Then I quit going again bc I rationalize that if I go it means I am accepting my ABF problems. Am going back to tomorrow bc am at the end of my rope with his drinking and antics. I can't take it anymore he is so negative, mean and self centered. I understand now that if I go am seeking solace and support for me. It's time for us to heal tangled.
I myself need to go to Alnon when I first went I was so angry that I couldn't grasp the point. Then I went back a second time an it was still hard but for some strange reason I felt better. Then I quit going again bc I rationalize that if I go it means I am accepting my ABF problems. Am going back to tomorrow bc am at the end of my rope with his drinking and antics. I can't take it anymore he is so negative, mean and self centered. I understand now that if I go am seeking solace and support for me. It's time for us to heal tangled.
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Yes gcolema it is time for us. I think I will probably do anything at this stage to help myself out of this hole and to just feel better about myself and more normal again. A family member who is a RA said to me that "no one will understand you and what you are going through like the other people in alanon and as long as there are people like me and your husband there will be people like you".
I feel like a bit of a fraud going though as AH is no longer living at home so I don't have to tolerate the drunken drama.
I feel like a bit of a fraud going though as AH is no longer living at home so I don't have to tolerate the drunken drama.
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Originally Posted by Tangled34
I feel like a bit of a fraud going though as AH is no longer living at home so I don't have to tolerate the drunken drama.
Nope, no reason to feel like a fraud that I can see--hope you go!
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I'm sure its not uncommon to feel like that but personally it was never anything I ever said or even thought.
Do you ever take credit for positive thing he's done? For example- do you ever say "I am so wonderful, its all because of me that my AH was able to work all week without calling in sick." Or "I am great, because of me my AH got a promotion at work".
So, do you take credit for the positive things? My guess is no, you understand those are his accomplishments, correct? Then why in God's name would you assume to take credit for the negative things in his life?
Do you ever take credit for positive thing he's done? For example- do you ever say "I am so wonderful, its all because of me that my AH was able to work all week without calling in sick." Or "I am great, because of me my AH got a promotion at work".
So, do you take credit for the positive things? My guess is no, you understand those are his accomplishments, correct? Then why in God's name would you assume to take credit for the negative things in his life?
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My ABF an I don't live together almost move in together though. I hate to admit it but am glad we didnt. He is about to lose his apartment has already lose his job an I have been supporting him basically right now. I feel so ashamed for helping him. I keep telling myself eventually he is going to be the person he was when we first met but I know it's not true. Am gonna try really hard at distancing myself from his madness bc I can't take it anymore
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Yes I have decided I am going to go now just need to find a meeting.
Ileana I dont know why I feel like that maybe because when he was living at home he made me feel like the nagging wife for trying to stand in his way of going drinking and made me feel like a party pooper and he just seemed to be getting worse as time went on so I felt like he as doing it to try and **** me off even more. But he is no longer at home and is still doing it so its starting to sink in that it is not just me and that kind of behaviour is just not normal.
Gcolema, I used to tell myself that aswell that he will be the person he was again but that never happened and he chose alcohol over his wife and child. Its a good thing that you are not living with him and have no children and hopefully you will get something positive from Alanon this time .
Ileana I dont know why I feel like that maybe because when he was living at home he made me feel like the nagging wife for trying to stand in his way of going drinking and made me feel like a party pooper and he just seemed to be getting worse as time went on so I felt like he as doing it to try and **** me off even more. But he is no longer at home and is still doing it so its starting to sink in that it is not just me and that kind of behaviour is just not normal.
Gcolema, I used to tell myself that aswell that he will be the person he was again but that never happened and he chose alcohol over his wife and child. Its a good thing that you are not living with him and have no children and hopefully you will get something positive from Alanon this time .
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