happybeingme

I have just started reading ACA's big red book and I am struggling. Much of what I am reading I relate to but, at times I find clinging to the bits I dont relate to and saying to myself "see, your situation is much different." Ugh. I know this is baloney thinking.

I realize also that this thinking allows me to maintain my victim mentality. Part of me just wants to chuck the whole thing and go off in a huff and have a pity party because I am damn tired of the recovery work. But, I know eventually I will lose myself again and the fear of that depressive time keeps me moving forward

Rant and pity party over for now.

OGK

I can relate. I found myself taking exception with the elements in AA and ACoA that I could NOT relate to. Having a very LOUD head, the exceptions seemed to always win out...proving my case for my resistance. Eventually, I began to incorporate the elements I liked, to fit with MY recovery and understanding of "it". Once I started to realize that its ok to take what I need and leave the rest, my virtual red pen started to disappear and the pearls came into more finite focus. Are you comfortable in citing an example of a certain passage or trait you are having issue with? Id be curious to hear if you'd like to share.
Happy reading......happy.

Mracoa

OGK gives good advice. It's a big red book, you will find parts you don't identify with. Maybe those will be important later, maybe they will never apply.

So focus you attention on the parts that you do see application for in your recovery. It's a marathon and it's normal to feel a little tired at times.

happybeingme

Thank you both. Promise not to laugh? I was struggling with the list of 25 questions listed to identify whether or not I am an adult child. Turns out as long as I said yes to at least3 of the questions I may be an adult child. Well thanks for the vagueness.

I am also not sure whether or not I should try to make my father a part of this thing. He is an alcoholic but I was very close to him until he left my mom when I was 7. Over time I did continue to see him on visitation and such I believe he had little influence on my life. Add to that my mothers systematic destruction of my image of my dad and I dont think at this time his role should be a part of my recovery work. I think it would be wiser to spend seperate time trying to reconnect with my memories of him before adding his influences to the mix.

So, here I sit reworking the words and phrases to fit my situation and I am not sure I will be successful with it

Any of this make sense?

makomago

Only having to identify with 3 of the 25 shows how few things can actually have large adverse effects as I see it. I identified with the Laundry list traits primarily.

By reading more of the book, meetings, forums etc I gained greater insights into the dysfunction and the who's, whats etc etc. More became clear.

On page 33 of the BrB it says;

"For those of us who doubt a connection between childhood events and adult behaviour, then why do we identify with the majority of the Laundry List traits?"

BTW I'm not saying you doubt, nor that you identify with the majority of LL traits, nor am I diagnosing you.... I'm simply saying that identification with the LL traits for me was enough to satisfy me that I am an Adult Child. More reading etc etc gave me greater understanding AND identification.

In regards to who should be a part of this, for me; it started with just my Dad, then just my Mum and later came to realise that there were bits of both and sometimes not what or who I thought it would be...

My Dad was mostly absent and that in its self gave rise to certain issues. There was not day to day direct impact, but simply not being there meant 'day to day' I felt unwanted and unloved by my Dad.

I too, at first, wondered whether I was 'really' an Adult Child - in the same way as I wondered if I was really an alcoholic early on (back in the day) - more became clear as I read the book and as I spoke to others (yourself included).....

I also found it interesting to note that the book says the term Adult Child and Co Dependent can sometime be used interchangeably (I paraphrase - see page 6 and page 100 in the BrB for clarity)

OGK

"I am also not sure whether or not I should try to make my father a part of this thing", says happy.

For me, I knew I was going to open a big box of the nasty once I decided that I wanted to explore and make the connections. Most of my early work was spent making sure that what I relived/uncovered didn't lead me to reach for old habits/drink/self preservation. I'm not really sure how I did it but I embraced the whole process as a "fact finding" mission to put the pieces of ME as an adult back together. Most likely due the fact I could already emotionally disconnect, I turned that trait into a positive in order to keep exploring without fear of falling down the S-hole.

I'm not sure I could have incorporated F2F investigations if I had to but at the time, I definitely knew that "I" was not in any condition in my recovery to try, for fear of physical retaliation on actors. That being said, if you feel you are in a place where you can positively do some F2F/FOO work, might as well try what you may or may not be afraid of?

Not implying that you should but for me, I wish I started this earlier as my father passed long ago and my Mom is in the grips of dementia, so I kind of feel like I'm learning to speak a dead language with no teacher. That being said...that being said, if you can make ANY connection to who you are as an Adult today with what you learn from your exploration, it's all pearls in my book.
Happy hunting

OGK

""For those of us who doubt a connection between childhood events and adult behaviour, then why do we identify with the majority of the Laundry List traits?"" Can I quote in the plural Mako?

I completely disregarded ACoA at first glance. My initial thoughts were, my parents didn't drink, this is NOT me. By accident, I started asking questions with my older sibling about OUR lives and how she thought she grew up. She was curious to know why and I let her know I was in AA and that I felt kind of stuck in trying to make connections as to why I was who I was. That's when I found out that my Father was a pretty severe alcoholic and terribly depressed for years before I was even born. That was the moment I took the trait quiz and made some shocking connections with the BEHAVIOR of ACoA, to include DYSFUNCTION.

Lucky to be open minded enough to search relentlessly is understatement IMO, for me. Sometimes I wish they would remove the Alcohol and insert Dysfunction but then again, I have faith that those kind of miracles uncovered are part of (someone's) plan right?

SparkleKitty

When I was doing my hardcore face-to-face counseling, I too wanted to focus only on one parent, the drinking one. It turns out my dad had just as much to do with shaping my behaviors as my mother. I think I wanted to let him off the hook, because when I started he was old and sick and his life with her was very, very sad. And while it's true that he didn't know better at the time, he never really tried to, either.

We're very complex creatures, shaped by countless experiences, words, moments, actions from countless people and environments. I had to get over the idea that I could shut the door on any of them if I really wanted to heal and move forward. Just my ES&H.

happybeingme

Thank you everyone for your sharing it has really helped. I definitely identify with the Laundry List.12 out of 14 so I guess doing abysmally on the questions shouldnt be important.

I think with my dad I just want to leave him out beccause I had to forgive and turn him over to God years ago. I havent seen him in ten years and dont even know where he is. Given his mental state he probably doesnt know where he is either. But, I am sure that doesnt discount his impact on me.

OGK I would never do a f2f with my parents about any of this. My mom has very strong narcissistic tendencies and is an expert at gaslighting. Trying to have even the simplest conversasion with her often leads me to feeling like I am nuts

OGK

"gaslighting"

Ha, never heard that term before, just looked it up.....how in the world did Wikipedia get a picture of my Mom? I love finding something in everything. Thank you for sharing and most importantly, giving me another pearl.

happybeingme

I aim to please OGK. So, we have another thing in common? It really is crazy making. I dont know about your mom but my mom when confronted with absolute proof against her she would always fall back on crying or saying she should just kill herself. This way she would always be forgiven

OGK

Ok happy, just stop it, are you from California psychics? Are you charging me?

I pieced together my childhood drowning through old neighbors and siblings recollections. Not one story matched my moms version she told countless times over the years. The same visit home I found out about my Dads past drinking, I attempted to jump the shark and ask my mom point blank what the REAL story was. The CIA missed out by not hiring her for sure. Never got a straight answer, and I've never seen a human being shut down COMPLETELY in such a manner. Zero talking after that and curtains went down. I did feel bad about pushing the issue and didn't get an answer but seeing the depths to which the manipulation was so engrained actually did provide me with the much needed closure/understanding. I was more concerned about connecting my crushing anxiety to the event so finding out the why or how no longer concerns me actually.

happybeingme

Ah yes, the CIA certainly did miss out. Gaslighting is the hallmark of NPD and other disorders. Sounds as if you are close to cracking the case.

I also wanted to say that I understand why you wish you had done this work sooner so that your parents were available to you but I must counter by saying having my mom around has made it harder for me because as I am trying to work on these things I am getting daily doses of her crazy. So, I have felt as if my energy and even my pysche has been split in two

GracieLou

My mom is NPD and I went no contact. There is no way I could work on myself and go through all the grief and acceptance with her still in my life. She drained a lot of my serenity!

I know what you mean by the CIA! My mother could have worked for them. Actually she runs a crime website. She thinks she is a detective! She can find anything on anybody at anytime of their life and not just them. If you knew them are related to them went to school with them, were neighbors with them, she will find it! LOL

She spends 24/7 at her computer doing "research". She ignored me so much anyway there was really not much to miss anymore.

happybeingme

Gracie,
Having a mom that is that good at doing online research would scare me to death. I am sorta no contact with my mom right now. It is complicated though since she lives with one of my sister that I want a relationship with. Plus, my mom keeps trying to break the no contact. Its tiring

makomago

More importantly why does your Mom look like my ex???!!! Someones got some 'splaining to do!!

That's a great term Hap... new to me too. Thx

makomago

Yes of course you can ""quote quote"", mon ami... feel free

The questionaire to which you refer OGK was my first real, realisation. It was hotly followed by the Laundry List... and off my chair I nearly fell.

If I'm not mistaken the questions are also on one of the stickies here - 13 characteristics.

GracieLou

This was me when I read the 24 traits of a Narcissistic Mother. I was in awe. I could not believe I had found an explanation after all these years. Sometimes I wish I had found it sooner but in reality I would have still been drinking and it probably would not have been a good thing. I would have blamed it all on her and would have never looked at myself.

God knew when I was ready to find it.

happybeingme, that has to be rough. I was so worried she was going to alienate my children with her lies and in true form, she tried, but they love me and they take me for what they see, not what she says. I am so grateful for that.

I know for me, I wanted and wished that others could see and feel what I saw in her but I had to give up on that. I have found that nobody understands unless they have been there. Other survivors understand, I understand and that can make a big difference in healing.

I didn't want revenge I just wanted a voice and to be heard and understood.

happybeingme

I am so glad that she was unable to poison your children. That is terrible. When my kids were little my mom was the best grandmother ever. Little did I realize she was grooming them to take care of her when they got older. Both are adults now and dont want anything to do with her.

GracieLou

Same here! I used to look at her with my kids and think "Where is the person that raised me?". I used to grin and think that she is trying to make up for it, just an old person trying to get into heaven..lol

But the traits did start to appear. My son is the golden child and my daughter is the scape goat. She moves behind the scenes. She pits them against each other just like she she did with me and my brother. It was history repeating itself. If one tells her something about the other she makes sure the other hears it so she can create negativity between them!

While they do still communicate with her, they know about her. They just let most of what she says roll off like water on a duck.

For me it is not about who is right or wrong or picking sides. I just wanted to be heard and for all relationships I have with others to be on my merits with them not on what somebody else is telling them.

I try to do that and I think that is fair.