nick22samm

Hey all, this will probably be a relatively long post, but I'm really looking for some outside opinions, since most of my friends belong to the same recovery group as me. I am not sure of the recovery culture on this site, but regardless, I am looking for some solid, unbiased opinions from people in recovery. I will start with a (brief as possible) history of myself/how I got to where I am right this second.

I am definitely a drug addict. I never had a huge problem with alcohol, but I identify as an alcoholic almost every day because of the 12-step program I attend. I started smoking weed every day, moved to psychedelics, and eventually graduated to being a full blown iv heroin addict for almost four years, often times mixing in other drugs. One thing led to another, I don't believe its really important to say what, right now anyways, but I ended up moving up to a sober house in february of 2013, completely beaten, hopeless and vulnerable. The house I was in was for young males, resembled a sober fraternity, and had a great staff that enforced the 12-steps of aa. I was there for 6 months, where I made great friends, and gradually got my life back together. I still live in that area with a couple sober roommates who went through the same process. All my friends are either from that house that i graduated from, or in that program.

For the first year, I was what they call, "on fire," in the program. I got a sponsor, went through the 12-steps, continually worked 10-12, spoke at meetings, sponsored others in the house... the whole 9 yards. Lately, I find myself, at over 1.5 years clean, extremely disenchanted with the whole 12-steps, the meetings, and overall culture. A place that's supposed to be so open-minded, is extremely closed-minded, cultish, pretentious... i could continue the list. I see people preach things, but do the opposite. I do my best to be honest, open-minded, etc etc, yet these same people come up to me to give me problems for identifying myself as an agnostic (basically saying i'm unsure of what god is, or if one even exists... in a program that states, "your own conception of god, however inadequate." I also caught a lot of flack for hanging out with a girl who was new to the program, from people who were 13-stepping left and right. Mind you, she is one of my best friends now, and we never had any relationship beyond friends.

Today, I find myself doing really well in life, not liking the program and meetings that I feel got me sober, but too afraid to leave it. I feel like i've been brainwashed, and it makes it even harder that all my friends are in this program. I feel like, spiritually, I'm great, and i'm not in this terrible situation that i was told i'd be in if i stopped moving forward in the 12-step recovery program. Just because I'm not going to meetings or really working the 12-steps doesn't mean i'm not moving forward in recovery and spirituality, though, no? I guess I'm writing this because I still have that fear engrained in me from the program that i'm in a vulnerable spot right now and its the emotional relapse before the relapse... except i don't feel like that's the case at all. Hopefully somebody hear understands what I'm talking about... I'm a bit confused, when i feel like i shouldn't be, because I'm doing really well. 19 months without a drink or substance, working a job i like full time, back in school after 4 years, great friends, great roommates, my family back in my life... idk... input would be nice. thanks guys

heartcore

I got clean in NA, a long long time ago. I, too, was "on-fire" for the program in the first year and a half; I had to be to get clean. After 18 months, I also had reconstructed many amazing aspects of life, and I looked around and wondered how I had ended up in such a "dogmatic and cult-like" community.

I had come in homeless, pregnant, using iv drugs, desperate, broke, and broken. In a year and a half, I was back in college, had a healthy baby, was in a great relationship, was active in community projects, etc.

I spent the next 6 months continuing my involvement with NA, but slowly drifting socially and emotionally from the program. After I got my 2 year chip - a heady celebration, surrounded by program friends - I quit the program. The next day.

To make a long story short, this was decades ago. I stayed clean and sober for 8 more years, got deeply involved in a meditation practice, finished college and went to grad school, raised my children with love, did yoga, traveled the world, etc. After 10 years clean and sober, I decided that my difficulty had been drugs, that I could drink beer and wine. I integrated those into my healthy life, moderately, and all was well. Stayed clean.

In my 40s, my children grown and with a lot of professional and personal accomplishment behind me, I came to Alaska to work. Alone.

All of my addiction issues re-emerged, in the form of alcoholism, with some drug dabbling (minimal, but I felt it awaken that animal). I found myself returning to a formal recovery program last year (AA this time). I'm on fire again - for the community, really.

All of this is to say that in looking back over this history, I have mixed wisdoms to share, some are contradictory, but your post got me thinking.

What I lost most in leaving the program were the relationships, the depth of relationship that you find in the program. As you get healthier, if you leave the recovery community, you're hanging out with normies. There are aspects of my being that they will never understand, and that means that I perpetually feel not fully understood. This creates an internal climate of "different-ness" which feeds my core loneliness and dis-ease with the world.

When I returned to the program, I realized that my pirate was an integral part of my deepest self, and that I could go to a thousand yoga workshops and pretend that I was that woman, but that my pirate-self demanded acknowledgement and camaraderie. I find that in the program, albeit with sober folk (who are still some messed up, crazy loving, bad ass folks...).

Conversely, I don't regret all that exploration, of who I am both inside and outside the 12 step recovery programs. For me (and maybe only for me...), I count MY recovery from that very first day that the shaking, skulking addict girl entered that first dirty smoke-filled meeting room (yup, those were the smoking days...). I don't get to "have that time" in the rooms now. 12 step time is counted from the last using/drinking day, and I am "in my first year" - which means that people often give me tedious, "primitive" advice that I feel I don't need. But that doesn't matter. I know that I have been in recovery, in many forms, for 28 years.

Wow, sorry, long post. Probably only added to your wondering.

I think it boils down to: There are many ways to make this journey, but the friends and companions that you find in the rooms are distinct, and without them, it can be a lonely road.

cleaninLI

Hi Nick. I understand what you are feeling. I went thru an IOP that was based on the 12-steps. The program does work....but it's not the only program out there. I think in lots of ways it's a good program...especially....for someone who really needs constant support but cannot attend for whatever reason....a rehab that is not based on the 12-steps. But IMHO the idea that you must stay in the program for life...or risk relapse....or as they say if you don't work the program...especially the 12th step....and support the program you are not working a program and therefore you are not moving forward.

Now this is only MHO....ok? Those of you who disagree...I respect that...but the op asked for our opinions. I feel the goal of recovery is to move forward toward as normal a life as possible. So If you are working hard....building closer relationships....making right the damages that were done during active addiction....you are moving forward and you are working a program. It may not be exactly like the program you were in....but it is building a long term recovery. So with that said....I am not against any recovery program. I'm for whatever works....and if people need to stay in the program their entire lives...that's fine....but if a program isn't working anymore...or it's building resentments or making you feel stuck then how is that building a good recovery? Because all those things that you are feeling right now nick are triggers. Are they not? Triggers could cause you to relapse.....so it's actually detrimental to your recovery to remain in a program that you are not feeling good about. Remember there is more then one way to build long term recovery! I totally disagree with programs, religions or any type of group that forces it's members to commit to it for life....or disallows its members to think for themselves and do what they feel is right for them. We were given a brain with logic and are supposed to use it.

So my advice to you is to do what feels right to you. But always keep in mind that relapse can happen....so as long as you do not pick up....you should be ok. To fulfill the spirituality component you might be missing....you can find it in other places. Depending on your own personal beliefs.

HonestlyTrying

what does your sponsor say? sometimes I need my sponsor's opinion, then I will find what other recovering addicts have to say, then I will look at what I really need and what feels like is best for my recovery. Take your time feeling this out. You will come to a point that the answer is the right one for you.

nick22samm

thanks everyone for the responses. I got something out of all of them. As for what my sponsor says, to be honest, I haven't told him yet (though I will, he's currently on vacation without his cell). I have a general idea of what he'll say, because he's a big book nazi (not in a bad way) and is really dedicated to the program. He's one of those "if you don't do a nightly review, you're gonna die," type of people, which is what i needed when I first asked him to sponsor me.

As far as the program, and still having long term recovery... I'm still in recovery, I just don't feel dedicated to the program anymore. I still work a 12th step every day, just in the form of sponsorship anymore... i just help people whenever I get the chance. I still work an 11th step, too, just not the way the book says to (morning meditation, nightly reviews, etc)... instead, i meditate, i have a form of (what i consider to be) prayer, and I will be attending a weekly buddhist meditation group starting saturday. My 10th step exists in the form of talking to friends and roommates, its just not in inventory form... so everything's still there, just not in the way outlined in the book. I hit a meeting, roughly one a week now, but i hate them. But... like i said before, all my friends are in it, and i do love my friends. heartcore touched on it, too, and i don't want to lose those relationships. I moved to a new state, and for the most part, everyone i know is from the program... idk, i've got some thinking to do. fortunately, the program has taught me to be honest with myself and others, so that should make asking for some honest advice from those closest to me easier... i also have the added pressure of my mom, 200 miles away, constantly asking if I'm still making meetings... she's been convinced that the second i stop going, i'm doomed. i don't want to lie to her, or worry her... but eh, that's a whole other issue.

TiredEnough

Nick, maybe you are just moving on with your life. I think that's normal for alot of people.

MIRecovery

All I know is I will need AA forever.

nick22samm

just out of curiosity, how long have you been in AA? you don't have to answer if you don't want to, either

MIRecovery

5 years. I go because I don't know where the edge of sobriety is. I'm of the opinion that alcoholism is a chronic disease. We never get over it we can only treat it. I never want to get so close to the edge that one step will cause me to think a drink sound's like a good idea. My 28 yr old daughter died of cancer last month. I took multiple steps toward the edge but I was far enough back that I did not take that final step into drinking.

I go to AA for myself and for others. I also go to AA to see what happens to people who do not work some active program of recovery. I am a slow learner and a fast forgetter. When I think I have this drinking stuff licked I am in deep do do

Soberwolf

When you say ppl 13 stepping left and right it made me feel sick then you turned round and said all the ppl you know or lived with
Are from that programme

I'm confused

nick22samm

the people i live with and the people i am currently friends with all work a very good and honest program. but there were people (just acquantainces, not friends, from meetings) who were giving me a ton of crap for hanging out with a girl who was new, telling me i was a predator, when they themselves were 13-stepping, continually. IMO it was just their guilty conscience, but it was still frustrating since I wasn't trying to hook up with her or anything. Today, she's one of my best friends, so I'm glad I didn't listen to all the people who gave me ****. but yea, those people aren't my friends, they just also attend the same aa meetings

And I'm with you, I just feel like I'm not getting anything from AA anymore, that I'm stagnant, and spiritually stuck. the big book even gives the warning in the story about the man who had 25 years clean, but failed to enlarge his spiritual life, and got drunk again. The big book says it's sole purpose is to get you connected to a higher power... it helped me with that. but i feel that i'm stuck now, and I can only enlarge my spiritual life and that connection through other mediums. I feel AA has done it's job for me, got me connected to that higher power that keeps me sober. I understand the whole giving back thing, but I can give back in other ways. I still help people on a daily basis - it's become a huge part of my life, thanks to AA... but I don't need AA to do it. Just like I no longer need it of the spiritual side of life, or for my taking of inventory. I just feel like I've grown out of what AA can bring me, and as much as I practice acceptance and tolerance, it isn't worth the aggravation of going to meetings that is more clique-y and dramatic than a high school dance. When the amount of inventory i do is mostly based around things from AA, I have to ask myself if it's even worth it anymore

Soberwolf

I can relate I left aswell

whalebelow

Seems self will is trying to re assert itself.

Running your own show got you into a fair amount of bother a while back, by the sound of it.

Your call though, all the best with whatever you decide.

nick22samm

that's what I initially thought the first few times, about 6 months ago. I'd call my sponsor, worried. So i'd jump back into it, call him every day, do nightly's every night, morning meditation, the whole 9 yards, but it definitely had zero effect on me, and id gradually fall off. This happened 2 or 3 times, and honestly, I'm just starting to think it's the opposite of self will. I keep my pathway to my higher power cleaned out as best I can on a daily basis, so I can do what I'm supposed to do, and not what I want to do. I am basically living the exact same life, just not by the strict regulations of AA. Unlike in early sobriety though, the malady isn't creeping in, I'm not ridful, and everything is going quite nicely in my life. I think it's a shame that because of AA, I'm fearful in my situation... because I shouldn't be, and I only am because I was told I should be when I was most vulnerable. I think it's just taken me this long to relearn to think for myself, which, as an addict, I understand can be dangerous. But so long as I continue to work some form of recovery, and remain spiritually fit, I don't see how it could be any problem. Again, like I said before, the big book never says it's sole purpose is to get you sober... it says it's sole purpose is to connect you to a higher power. So long as I keep that relationship, and continually work on getting closer, it should't be an issue... I'm doing exactly what the purpose of the book is, just without the book. Alcoholics Anonymous certainly isn't the first book to outline a way to gain a connection with a higher power

HonestlyTrying

I also got to a point where it was like the 'doldrums"...everything seemed grey and other people in the program were hypocrites. It lasted about a month. I just kept working the steps and the steps helped me realize it doesn't matter what other people are doing. It matters what I am doing. I just needed to keep doing the right things. My perception and understanding changed for the better.

whalebelow

Can you describe your "higher power"... Only if you want to that is.

nick22samm

I can't. That's why I identify as an agnostic. I understand the universe is bigger than me. I've had things happen to me that I can't brush off as a coincidence. I believe everything on this planet is connected. I know I can't stand in the ocean, put my hand up, as if to say "stop," and stop a wave in it's path. I understand very little, but I do understand that I am a very small speck of something bigger than me... whether it's the earth, the solar system, the galaxy and universe in motion, or a stereotypical image of a bearded man in the sky, I can't fully say. That's about the extent of it. I went, and am currently going to school, for philosophy, so I've spent many waking hours trying to answer these questions, but I've deduced most of it to a simple "I don't know," which leads me open to most all beliefs, opinions and possibilities on such matters. I've built my sobriety on a foundation of willingness, and a lot of that rests on a willingness to believe in a higher power. I'm always willing, never judgmental, and keep open ears, eyes and mind towards all possibilities.

whalebelow

Ok, just my opinion, but what I'm hearing is "I am a human"
"things have happened to me I don't understand "
"I can't stop the ocean"
"I am smaller than the universe "

What i didn't hear was " I have my very own conception of God" or "I don't know exactly and precisely who or what God is, but I know My God is there and that is all I need to understand "

Subtle differences between agnostic thoughts and saying I don't know what God is, but I believe he is there.

One is doubt, one is faith.

nick22samm

I see what you're saying. I can't put it into words exactly. But there is faith... I believe it's evident when I said I've had things happen that I can't chalk up as a simple coincidence. I don't doubt the existence of a god, nor do I doubt the non-existence of one. I don't think I'll ever be able to fully say. I know quite a few buddhists in the program that would say they're atheist. But that's neither here nor there. I put faith in something, that so long as I do the right thing, thing's will work out the way they are supposed to. I put out positive energy, or prayers, into the universe to give me strength, direction, opportunity to help others, to face my fears and defects, etc... I just don't know if it's an entangled web in the universe, or a god, or... who knows, aliens, haha, i don't know, and i don't really care. I don't really believe in any christian, jewish, muslim god, or any orthodox definition of a god. But I know something bigger than me is out there... like i said, at the least, the universe is bigger than me, and i'm a smaller, functioning part of that. For all I know, the universe could be conscious, and I could be no different to the universe than what one atom is to me, completely unaware of its larger make up. I think it was in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy that had a quote something like knowing my fate "no more than a tea bag knew the history of the east india trading company." similar concept. anyways, i'm rambling.

whalebelow

That is a good ramble.

I've said my piece I'll leave it at that.