Blossom717

So I don't know what I'm going to do yet. But I have decided that If I do return to ABF's house, then there will be certain conditions that need to met, and he has to understand that if they aren't , that I will leave. I'm going to list what I put, and if anyone has any suggestions or advice or comments, feel free.

My Conditions:

In order for ------ and I, --------, to continue living under the same roof as you, ---------, the following conditions must apply:

- There will be no alcohol on the property.
- There will be no narcotic pain pills on the property.
- There will be no verbal or emotional abuse. This includes profanity name calling, lying and threatening.
- ------ and ------- will both participate in programs. This means attending at least once a week. (Al-Anon for -----, AA for ------)
- ------(abf) needs to find a sponsor through AA, and converse with that sponsor as needed.
- ------ and ------ will both keep up with the house hold chores, inside and outside.
- -------(abf) will learn how to do his own paperwork, manage his accounts and bills, with or without help.

If any of these are not followed, then I, -------, and ------, will vacate the residence immediately.

If I feel that you, --------, are not following the AA program and working the steps, then I will vacate the residence immediately.

If you feel like you cannot/won’t follow the AA program, then you have the right to do so, as I have the right to vacate the residence.

If you feel these conditions are not manageable, you have that right, as I have to right to reside elsewhere.

These conditions must be agreed to and applied before I, -----, and ------ return to the residence permanently.


and at the end we will both sign and date it. Again, I'm not sure if I will even agree to return at all, but if I do, this is what I will give him first.

SparkleKitty

I would just gently suggest that you consider how you would enforce several of these conditions, and whether that is how you wish to spend your one wild and precious life.

You can take back the Friday thing at any time. You are allowed. You can give yourself more time away to gain perspective and decide what you really want before you make any decisions at all -- even the decision to consider returning.

There is no rush Blossom -- only the urgency he is creating out of desperation. You are allowed to work it out on your timeline, even if that means changing your mind.

biminiblue

Those are not enforceable and are vague.

"Working his AA program." What exactly does that mean to you?

I would change the first ones to "I will not be involved with someone who actively uses XXX." If he uses, you are gone.

Alcohol and drugs "in the house" still allows him to stand on the front porch or in the neighbors' garage and drink.


In the end, I wouldn't live with him. The hardest part was leaving. I would stay gone and still make the demand that he not use. Him making his sobriety contingent on you living with him is BS (if he's said that, can't remember.) A relationship can still occur without living together.

The "program" and "working the steps" is open to interpretation and you cannot police how he does it - so, moot point.

What isn't open to interpretation is USING. Full stop.

peaceofpi

When I first saw a divorce attorney, I wanted a post-nuptial contract with certain conditions. The wise old attorney looked at me and said, "That's just a roadmap to divorce."

It is good to have clearly stated boundaries - e.g., "I expect you to be sober and to treat me with respect" - but if you know going in that it ain't gonna happen, not sure the wording will make a difference.

ladyscribbler

Do you really want to put so much time and energy into a relationship where it seems necessary to spell out what any normal, sane adult would consider to be unacceptable behavior? Using drugs, getting drunk and being verbally and emotionally abusive.
In order to grow and truly change, he needs to figure this stuff out on his own, not have it handed to him as a list of rules and conditions for a relationship. He needs to live this stuff, not just go through the motions to keep you around.
Agree with Sparklekitty about the artificial timeline he and his stepmom have created putting pressure on you. There is no rush to go back to that. Remember when all you wanted was to get away and get out of that house? If he is truly going to stop using and work a strong program and live in sobriety, he will do what he needs to regardless of where you are and what your relationship is.
You are making lots of rules for him to live by, but not any boundaries for yourself. My boundary was simple- I will not live in a home with active alcoholism/addiction. My ex continued to use alcohol, so I no longer live there. Think about what boundaries you can set for yourself that will protect you and your daughter, whether your boyfriend chooses to continue drinking or not.

dandylion

Blossom--in my experience, "conditions agreement" don't work very well with an active alcoholic (or addict).

I would hope that you would give yourself the gift of time, right now. The time to know what really is in the best interest for you and your child.

I keep thinking about what you wrote about wanting to puke when he tried to hold y our hand......and, your daughter having panic attacks.

You need lots of support on your "side", right now. Perhaps alanon and a personal counselor for yourself...to help you sort things out and gain more strength and clarity.
So many on this forum...who have been through what you are going through report that this is what helped them keep their "head above water"...so, to speak...

dandylion

Florence

God, I had a nearly identical experience.

Do whatever you need to do. Nobody will judge you here for it. I did the same thing over others' protests, and found that my XAH still used under my roof, didn't follow a program, helped around the house on his own terms only. I ranted around, laying down the law, trying to make him follow "the rules." He never did. Long story short, I had to learn that I couldn't make him change, I couldn't change him, I couldn't manage his disease. Even my boundaries as stated were attempts at controlling him.

My gentlest suggestion -- seeing that you aren't "pumped" about all this -- is to give it more time. Does he do these things when you aren't around, making demands and drawing lines in the sand? If so, if he's working a program and learning how to pay his own bills and live an adult life, maybe there's something here worth saving. If not, you know exactly what you're getting, which is an active addict.

I found that when I didn't save my ex, he found someone else to do it. That's where he is now, doing exactly what he did with me under someone else's roof.

You have to give it the time and space to pan out one way or the other. You can't rush this, can't control this. What if you gave yourself another week? Another day? One day at a time?

A saying that really helped me during this time -- the exact opposite of the co-dependent's law of inertia, "Don't just stand there!! Do something!!!!!" -- was "stand there and do nothing."

Stand there and do nothing, girl. What does he do when you aren't laying down the law?

If you can't do that, understand that you're probably signing on for more months, maybe years, maybe a lifetime, of ineffectively laying down the law.

This is the hard stuff right here. I feel you.

Butterfly

If he wants you home so badly why isn't he choosing recovery for himself. You could try and state these conditions are required before you return home ie he must actively engage in recovery AA seek a sponsor and become sober. I don't know if he will achieve it but it would demonstrate to you how serious he is about you and wanting you home. If he can't or won't agree and abide then you won't have uprooted yourself and your child again to return home only to leave again.

hopeful4

I did this. It was similar. I did not even last a week, it just made him try to hide it better, but I always knew.

Only you can decide what you want to do. Please keep yourself and your little girl safe and sound.

We are here for you no matter what.

XXX

CodeJob

Hi Blossom,

Personally I would let some time go by and just watch and wait. Can you do this? One of my biggest lessons is I don't need to wade in and tinker with the boat motor. It might very well float out of the weeds on the tide.

Butterfly

You have just left him a day or so? Apologies if I have this wrong. Give yourself time, time to figure out who you are and what you want from your life. To date he has made it clear that his addiction comes first not you and your child. I think it's time you put you first and look after yourself and your child.

Time away from this situation may give you clarity and the much needed space to process what your live has been like with an addict and the peace and security living away from that environment will bring. It's hard to walk away and stay away but in the long run your own sanity will welcome it.

Sending you hugs

Hawkeye13

Not enforcable, and not good for your kids to have to deal with.

Please give yourself some space to clear your mind and for him to demonstrate seeking recovery instead of just talking about it.

Hugs

Blossom717

I don't know why I was thinking it would be something an A would abide by. That's why I wanted all of your thoughts first.

I really really just want time. His whole family is pressuring me. his sister in law just texted me and asked me if I was "bagging" vacation with them next week. I'm glad that that is the main priority.

I guess written conditions are any different from verbal ones. I've given him verbal ones. Will this time be different, since he went to AA and got meds? I have no idea. Right now I feel like he is just trying to get me back home. And I guess in a way those conditions are basically asking me that he changes who he is. Which I know isn't possible.

Blossom717

PS I found an alanon meeting near my mom's house tonight. After I pick up DD from ABF's house, I'm going to go to it.

hopeful4

When the family starts in with the pressure it gets harder, I understand. It took me a while to see that my X's family wanted the same thing he did, for everything to go back to the same. For me to be the one who handles him and his issues and they just keep up the same ol same ol. Um....no. I did that for enough years. If they want to go codie and take care of him, help yourself. If not, I guess he will have to man up and take care of himself.

It hurt b/c I was close to them. I have gotten over it, I have my own family I am close to.

Stand Strong. Do what is right for YOU.

SOOOO glad you are going to Alanon!

OnlyOneProblem

Your "conditions agreement" really isn't anything different than what we all have tried to do - control someone else.

What I found the most comfort and peace doing was making the decision to do what was best for me in my relationship. Last summer it clicked and I knew without a doubt that I wanted off the merry go round. I lived on that crazy ride for about 10 years. I couldn't do it any longer. I don't have young children but my health was suffering terribly. I told him I wanted a divorce and nothing short of him being in a program would do. He wanted to argue that he didn't have a problem, it was me, etc. I gave him time and space. Detached and lived my own life while we were under the same roof. I wouldn't budge on what was best for me. It didn't happen overnight but he did find his way to AA. He is 10 months sober and he is happier than he has ever been.

Your husband will resent signing this conditions agreement and you will be back down this road again.

Making the decision to get off the merry go round - to stop the abuse - was very healing to me. I truly believe we would not be where we are today had I not made the decision to do what was best for me.

Take care of you and your kids!

ladyscribbler

Good call on the Alanon meeting. That's been a huge help for me.
Agree with others about his family. There is no real reason to rush back, but it is hard to stand up to that kind of pressure, especially when you're so used to being a people pleaser. It can feel like you're letting them down somehow, even though that's not the case.
You and your daughter are the important ones here. Take your time and let him SHOW you recovery. So far you've gotten mostly talk.

FireSprite

Take however long you need Blossom, you don't have to abide by anyone's else's timeline or pressure here. This is YOUR life. Hopeful once said, "This is not a race, it's your LIFE" and those words stick with me to this day.

We often say around here that "more will be revealed" & I thoroughly believe that in this case. Be careful - I think once he sees that you aren't going to simply cave under pressure, things can get a lot worse/more volatile before they get better. No WAY I would choose to move back into the line of fire once I'd gotten us out. No. Way.

If they are pressuring you like this then they ARE NOT concerned with your well being. They ARE NOT concerned with DD's safety & future development.

Since he is still blameshifting, pressuring you for answers & trying to make you responsible for his recovery I would guess that, No, nothing will be different this time. Not until he CHOOSES recovery, and isn't doing it as a form of punishment in his mind.

Here's my question when I read over the list of conditions - do you want to be his Mommy? Because that's what you'd have to become in a sense when you are making these ultimatums... either his Mommy or his Parole Officer.

Is that how you envision a healthy relationship for yourself? Would you be satisified if DD came home & told you that this is how she was managing to control her relationship with her violent, addict of a partner?

amy55

Hi Blossom.

How are you doing? As you know I have not been doing that good recently knowing that I have to deal with my ex again.

So I needed to read some of your past posts, because honestly my head has not been on straight for awhile.

What I am seeing here is a lot of what I went through.

What I am seeing is that you were starting to detach. That perhaps for a period of time he might not have been that bad, but you knew you couldn't deal with it anymore.

It started to look at other options, like buying that house.

Then an "incident" happens. A really bad incident. You leave. Now he wants to start the "honey moon period". I call it hoovering, trying to suck you in like a big vacuum. Then the promises come, and they sound so real, so convincing this time.

I went through many of these, and I wasn't even asking him to stop drinking, I was asking him to stop abusing me.

So what happens if he sucks you back in, do you give up that dream of the house for you and your daughter?

My advice, and you don't have to listen to me, because I am really crazy this month.

Continue to work on that credit rating.

Do not move back in with him.

Watch and see what he does.

He most likely go back and forth between being nice, and being abusive.

It will be all your fault. (lol)

The agreement isn't going to work. I wouldn't give it to him in person, If you really want to give it to him, email it. This way you will be far away from him, when he has the meltdown over it.


I could never understand how I could get to the point of "I can't take this anymore", then he does something so egregious, that even I couldn't believe it, then he is apologizing, and here I am again feeling sorry for him, and wanting to give him another chance.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))

FireSprite

One last thought - around here we often say, "wait - more will be revealed"...

In this case Blossom, I think more will definitely be revealed once he realizes you aren't going to buckle under the pressure & just give in. I would anticipate things getting a lot more volatile & unpredictable when he doesn't get his way - there is NO WAY I would voluntarily move back into the line of fire once I'd gotten us so safely out of the way. No. Way.