Hammer

Soooo. Driving my daughter to Ice Skating this morning . . . actually sitting up in the balcony, (right now) watching the Zamboni do its rounds . . . She has been "promoted" this season. If they make it past the regional competition this May, they go to Boston in the Summer. I am already shopping and planning the Summer trip

She LOVES being on the Team. Something Good she belongs to. Yep.

When we were driving home last week, Daughter was musing that she had made it to the Theater Level just in time, as the Coach was retiring, and mused -- It is true, Dad -- ALL Things Work Together For Good. Yep, kid. We handle the second part (for Those Who Love Good), and God handles the first part.

[wow, they are skating now, and she just NAILED the entry -- she is the open of the show routine.]

Anyway, this morning. She was telling me of her "Study" of Mean Girls. She goes to Public School so she can be "social." (Also got the school award yesterday for being top of Social Studies). She says that Mean Girls are intentionally Mean. They tend to know they are Mean. They only pretend to be nice, and they can only recover to be nice with very hard work, and you cannot even expect them to not be Mean without first a very sincere apology, and even then they are at risk of returning to being Mean if they do not stay working on being nice.

[by now this is sounding soooo 12 Step, I am just trapped into what she is telling me]

So I started asking about what it takes to be a Mean Girl and "recovery."

Hammer: So, Could I be a "Mean Girl?"

Daughter: (laughing) Not a very good one, Dad. You can "play" stuff, but always return to being you, and you care too much.

So then I went down other folks we know, and asked if they were Mean Girls, or could be, and what and why . . . . came down to . . . . the Topic.

Hammer: Is Mom a Mean Girl?

Daughter: Yes. She is a very Mean Girl.

By now the conversation was in hypnotic metaphor.

Hammer: So how best to handle Mean Girls?

Daughter: Keep distant. They only play nice to get things to use and take, and then anything you have offered will be used against you.

Smart Kid. I should listen to her more.

HealingWillCome

Very wise girl, indeed. And great father-daughter talk you had.

Mean Girls go on to be Unhappy Women, in my opinion. Your daughter looks to be on a much healthier path at a pretty tender age. Makes me smile.

Mango blast

What wonderful insight.

I've never looked at it this way before. One relative whom I've been distancing myself from is a Mean Girl. I never saw that before. She's happy on the surface, she seems kind in many ways. I long ago had distanced myself from her and over the years let myself skew the bad and look towards the "good" (as the world I lived in made hers seem not so bad). For my own sanity this past year, I've distanced myself again. Now I know why.


edit: So ironic. A part of me still wants to say, "but she really does care". Then I apply this
"Daughter: Keep distant. They only play nice to get things to use and take, and then anything you have offered will be used against you." and I know better in a heartbeat. Which leads me to looking at her past actions beneath the surface. Not the smile, the "love" and kind words she uses. Thank you very much.

Stung

This makes me both happy and sad for your daughter. My mom is a "mean girl" too in that she wants things from me because it makes her feel good and makes her look good, but being her daughter, I still want my mother's affection even if I know that it's not "real" and when i was in a teen it was really hard to see my friends' mothers and wonder why I didn't have a similar relationship with my own mom. However, I'm glad that she has you there to confide in and support her. I hope you're giving her loads of encouragement, praise and love. Congrats to her for making it to the more advanced team!

Mango blast

Your daughter's skating accomplishments are fantastic!! Wishing her the best at regionals!

I was so taken off guard by that realization of how my SIL works I forgot to give your daughter my congratulations as well as big thanks.

MissFixit

Hi!

That is great about your daughter.

Hammer, your daughter is sooo insightful and sounds tactful and very mature for her age. I know what is like to have a "sick" mother and need to grow up fast, therefore, developing perceptiveness and insights into people earlier than others. I hate it for her that her mother is sick. I hate it for her that she is aware that her mother cannot be the mother she needs or wants. I hate it for her that she has to live with a mother she knows that she needs to stay away from. I was very much like your daughter and looking back I see that I NEEDED to be a kid more than I was. I rebelled from about 19-21/22 because I had to hold it together at home for many years. You sound like a great dad who truly loves and prioritizes his kids above all else. I hope for you that you take these insights and talk with your therapist about them including that they are coming from your bright and mature daughter. In my fantasy world, no other girls would ever experience the road I have.

Best

CodeJob

Hammer,

I could almost cry. Being a brainy stick of a girl, the Mean Girls came after me hard from ages 11-14. It deeply affected me. I got all of my happiness learning and excelling in school, but then to have to drag myself there and get bullied for doing what I loved was really more than I could handle. I never feel comfortable in a pack of women because of this social bullying. Healing is right in that these women grow up and essentially do not change.

Has Mrs. Hammer identified your daughter as a threat as she matures? You are in such a no win situation. You want an intact family but you are trying to reign in the impact of a mental illness and addictive tendencies. You can't control or cure it. At times she may not be able to control it either and your home is Ground Zero. This makes me so deeply sad for you. Your daughter has you and your wife pegged!

My RAH loves his son with his entire heart and soul, but he does not really know how to be a play mate or a fun dad in DSs life. He is just emotionally withdrawn and kind of lost. Letting go of trying to finesse a father-son bond was hard for me. I've been able to push my role a bit when DS was younger. I can go fishing, play some video games and push sports a bit and outdoorsy stuff and get those practices in - but at some point the fact I am not male just comes into play.

But I so enjoy hearing about you and your kids bc it is so evident that you just adore them! You are in their corner. That counts for so much. But at the end of the day I worry these dysfunctional patterns are already set and heading into another generation.

This is an intriguing post! Might need to talk with Mr. T about mean girls...

Raider

Thanks for posting. Great news about your daughters accomplishments.

HealingWillCome

This makes me completely teary-eyed, CodeJob. Kind of triggers some sick-to-my stomach feelings as the mom of three daughters, as I have watched my girls feel pain over similar issues, but it also made me think of middle daughter and want to share her Anti-Mean-Girl story.

17-yo DD is an introvert who has struggled with Mean Girls since she was in elementary school. Her best friend in the 4th grade was a beautiful little girl with Down's Syndrome. DD loved her because she could be herself with her. They laughed and acted silly on the playground and didn't have to deal with anybody else's crap. Sadly, BF moved away the next year.

DD is now a senior, ready to graduate next month. All through school she has chosen friends based on their character, on the way they treat others, because they have made her feel safe and loved. Her very best friends don't run with the popular crowd. They are almost socially invisible, some of them, but their common thread is that they are kind, honest, genuine, fun, funny, good young humans who have bucked the popular crowd and marched to drums of their own interests and talents and genuine hearts. DD is very athletic and has played sports all through school. She could have been a follower and chosen to make the Mean Girls of her sports teams her social crowd. But she didn't.

So here is the silver lining in introverted DD’s story. Last week, she was voted prom queen in her high school. More votes in her high school than the other three candidates, including Mean Girl Number One. Proof that people, even teens, pay attention to character. I would post DD’s beautiful, smiling, tiara-wearing face here, but of course I need to be a protector of her anonymity. PM me if you want to see the picture. I will proudly share.

All the years of DD’s heartache as an introvert, i.e. Easy Mean Girl Target, saw some sweet justice last week. Hammer’s daughter is onto something, and she is able to articulate it which makes it even more valuable. Reading comments from Hammer, Stung, and MissFixIt about Mean Girl moms is really heartbreaking. Keep doing what you’re doing, Hammer. A girl needs her mom, but while mom isn’t healthy, thank God there is a dad to step up to the plate.

shil2587

Slightly off topic, but by identifying who the coach is and the fact you daughter just joined the team, as well as what competition she is in, it would be very easy to figure out who your daughter is and then who you and your wife are. Please be careful hammer for your own protection.

Hammer

Good point, well taken. Thank you.

The thing that so amazed me in this is the parallel to Addiction and Recovery Models, and we talked that aspect on the way home. She said, yes most of recovery is the same, and can be shortened or expanded as needed.

And this part, HWC . . .

Thanks for that.

And yep, that is pretty much our Daughter's approach. She has her "Army of the Undead," as I call them. The mullet-head boy with CF and guitar, the Science Nerds, "Ghetto Girl," the stand-out misfits, and the would-be-wallflowers.

And as soon as the teachers figure her out and what she is doing, they just all smile and nod, too. Guess life maintains the Yin-Yang balance one soul at a time. But only 1/3 of the Angel are fallen, so by numbers I think we are doing well.

-----------------

Was chatting that with about a month-in New-Comer in our Alanon Group before and after the meeting today. Childhood Trafficking Survivor, if you are familiar with what that is. Seems many for the woman in our group this is overwhelming and she is sort of shunned.

Fortunately due to my own background, I can delve straight into this stuff, with open kindness and see through the disturbing surface affects. So as ever, The Evil Intended for Me, God Has Turned For Good.

What He does, because of Who He is.

So she has been my chatting and texting buddy until she could make connections. After a few weeks of this, a couple women have swooped in to really help her today.

God is Good. Praise His Holy Name.

MesaMan

Google in the Film 'Mean Girls'. It defined this Topic ~1 Decade ago. In an irony that won't be lost on Members here, a main Actor in it was Lindsay Lohan.

CodeJob

Here's the book link which is actually Quuen Bees and Wannabees. Ah I knew that Lorde lyric rang a bell!

Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and the New Realities of Girl World: Rosalind Wiseman: 9780307454447: Amazon.com: Books

HealingWillCome

Awesome

HealingWillCome

Thank you for this link. This is worth a read, for sure. Downloading to my Kindle even though my girls are getting older now. There are adult women I work with who fit the Queen Bee mold still. Not as many Wannabees, but I think that's one of the gifts of aging. We learn to not give a rip what people think. At least not nearly as much anyway. Looking forward to reading this.

Hammer

Thanks on the Queen Bees book link.

While reading the review, I noticed this one, as well.

Dads and Daughters: How to Inspire, Understand, and Support Your Daughter When She's Growing Up So Fast: Joe Kelly: 9780767908344: Amazon.com: Books

Uno Centavo.

Might get a couple -- for me and my Steps Sponsor.

His Daughter is about a year older than mine, and his "work" for himself in the Steps Program is his relationship with her. (he is one of the leads this time, but they all do their own work, as well -- AWESOME operation).

Just yesterday was doing my Family Day Take-A-Meeting / Intro-to-Alanon presentation at the Local Rehab Center. When I got to the part about that I tell my kids that for me, Alanon is "The Better Daddy Club," the whole room went, "awww . . . " Dunno if that happened before, but now I am becoming more aware. But it really is. I went to Alanon because of Mrs. Hammer. Now I am in for me and kids.

Rosiepetal

What a great daughter you have.
I could hear how proud you were from your post.
Thanks for sharing.

Hammer

GOING. TO. BOSTON.

Daughter's Ice Skating Group won the Dallas Competition today.

embraced2000

congrats! you might want to pass on to your daughter that her dad's fan club is cheering for her.

hammer, you seem like an awesome person and most importantly, a loving father that has on his armor of knowledge, sensitivity, wisdom, God, and......al-anon.

your children are fortunate and blessed to have you.....a balance for their situation.

keep on.....

SeriousKarma

Congratulations!!!!!