BlueChair

Hello Everyone,

I usually post on the side for drug addiction, but I have a question and your group is larger so I thought I would ask here. Ive been trying hard to understand whats the central focus of al-anon, nar-anon.

I know they are for family, but I feel like most of the focus is on codependency. Our own codependency issues and all the feelings we have like anger, fear, resentment are thought to be generated because we are codependent with our spouse/partner?

They suggest ways to change your behavior, new ways to relate to your spouse, take the focus off them, let them do their thing, you do your thing.

Am I close?

I dont feel codependent. I have been working with my own counselor for months now and she didnt think I had a problem in that area. But I have been deeply affected by the shock and turmoil of my husbands addiction, accepting things happened like an affair. It was a lot like PTSD as someone here mentioned in another thread. Very helpful thread, and I thought I would pose my question here.

Seren

Hello BC, How are you this evening?

I found Al-Anon to be a lot like this forum actually. Just a group of people who have one thing in common...they love someone who suffers from alcoholism.

When Mr. S and I first went to our first meeting (because of his son, my stepson), he came away very confused. He said "I want someone to tell me how to fix this!" Believe me, we tried. My stepson has been through 3 stints in the hospital, in county jails, in prison, homeless, tazered by drug dealers, threatened to kill members of his own family....it's been quite a ride.

What Al-Anon taught us is that we don't have to have a front row seat to that ride. All of the phone calls, late nights worrying, offers of rehab, counseling, etc. made not one dent in his addiction. It taught us to allow him the dignity to make his own decisions, to let him learn that there are consequences to his actions, and that he is responsible for those consequences.

My stepson lives in another state now....he is actually on the phone with his father as I type this. He has taken many missteps, but overall, he is doing much better. We learned, in Al-Anon, that the motivation to change had to come from within him. If we kept stepping in every time he made a mess, he would not have been motivated to finally reach out last year and ask for help--ask to go to rehab. It was the first time he had ever initiated that conversation, and he did so after we allowed him to live his own life, make his own decisions, and live with the consequences.

We also learned to not be so reactive to everything that he did or said....that it is OK to sit with the information about some new crisis and think. Think about what, if anything, we would be willing to do to help him.

Mr. S and I no longer go to meetings as there is so much going on in our own lives and we are not confronted with daily drama and chaos. If we were faced with that again, I believe we would go back for the face-to-face support provided by Al-Anon meetings.

Seren

Sorry, tired woman with multiple deadlines here *waves*.

But I thought I should add, not everyone who is involved with an alcoholic is by definition codependent. Many do not believe themselves to fit that mold. I think that's fine and is also something that is self-diagnosed. Many, many people here seem to feel that 'only you can decide if you are an alcoholic'. I suppose I feel the same is true for friends and family--only we can decide whether we fit the definition of codependent.

Co-Dependents Anonymous is a similar organization for those of us who feel we have strongly entrenched codependent personality traits and behaviors that we would like to change.

choublak

In my experience, the words "codependency" and "codependent" are mentioned A LOT more in this forum than in the Al-Anon meetings I have attended. Then again, I can only speak for the meetings I have been to.

LifeRecovery

Bluechair-

I found Al-anon very helpful in dealing with my hubby's affair that FINALLY got me dealing with the problem drinking.

I had been in therapy for some time prior to joining Al-Anon. Al-Anon at times triggered me extensively in ways I was not anticipating. Having a therapist allowed me to bring those triggers adn work through them. Some of them were things I had to "Take what I want and leave the rest." Some of them were real learning points about the addiction and about my own stuff.

Could going to a couple of meetings and seeing how it goes be an option. To me it would give you a chance to see.

I however have struggled with codependency my whole life. I had already dealt with it extensively by the time I had arrived in Al-Anon and did not do many of the typical things that you read about when you live with someone with addiction. I did not buy, toss out alcohol, go to parties etc.

My emotions however were very linked to him. Al-anon and therapy helped.

BlueChair

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have done some reading on your side here and think maybe I should have found my way here sooner. I found some very helpful things.

I was very close to trying out the Celebrate Recovery program, and Im still very much thinking about it. Ive been trying to understand more about al-anon because I think like you said Choublak I see a lot of things especially in posts here and it seemed very much about codependency.Left me feeling confused.

I have been doing counseling for months now. How that started was when my husband was in rehab, he came home for a weekend visit after one month. I didnt know it while he was there, but he shot up in our closet, right under my nose ! I found out when he got back to rehab and was drug tested. To say I lost my mind would be appropriate. Over the phone I yelled at him, called him names, talked to him like I have never ever in our whole relationship. I was so hurt because I thought we had this wonderful weekend and then to find out he was using and drugs were hidden at home.

The doctor then said as gently as he could, he wanted to get me into counseling so I could learn about addiction, and start working on my feelings. He also put us in family counseling together. Both have helped, but how embarrassing it was, and how much I regret all the things I said to him.

I feel like Ive come a long way, but I know I have more work to do on myself. Right now Im just starting to explore some of my fears and anger. Mostly I have anger inside still because of the affair, the lies. While Ive expressed it to him in our sessions, I dont so much anymore because I feel like he is trying to do his part and fix things, work on himself. Its more like I need to resolve the feelings in me. Does that make sense? Some of the anger isnt even at him, its at the universe, myself, a few particular people who were involved in all this. I just started reading a book called The Dance of Anger, got that one from my mom. Has anyone read it?

Sometimes it all seems easy, other times very hard. Im hoping to get through it all in time, good days and bad Im sure most of you understand that part.

youve been very helpful.

I

readerbaby71

I replied to the thread in Secular Connections but after reading this I have another book recommendation for you.

The Five Keys to Mindful Communication: Using Deep Listening and Mindful Speech to Strengthen Relationships, Heal Conflicts, and Accomplish Your Goals: 9781590309414: Susan Gillis Chapman: Books: Shambhala Publications

Catherine628

I might check that book out. I have lots of anger too. More like rage and mine stems from the affair too. I feel like I just can't get past all this anger. I do know that I feel less angry after I go to Al Anon meetings. I've never even mentioned the affair in my meetings but other people have talked about that topic. It helps that no one is judgemental, no one questions why I did certain things. They get it.

I think anyone who lived under these circumstances would be angry. Now I just have to figure out what to do with all this anger. Exercise has been helping a little. Glad you found your way to this part of the forum.

lillamy

Well... my personal opinion (and I could be wrong) is that when you're dealing with addiction, throwing the kitchen sink at it isn't an all bad idea.

I've read and posted here. I've gone to Al-Anon. I've been in counseling. I do a lot of self-care (exercise, diet, meditation, prayer). I've used anti-depressants during especially hard periods.

When someone else's addiction affects you, you have a lot in common with other people who are also affected by someone else's addiction. And then there will be things that you don't have in common. I, for example, am struggling with certain parts of the 12-step program for Al-Anon because many of the things I lived through while married to an A wasn't directly related to him being an A, but related to him being an abuser -- which makes the whole "take responsibility for your part in the mayhem" pretty complicated.

Since the day I admitted the man I was married to was an alcoholic, I haven't turned my back on any avenue for help.

I think whether or not you feel like you "match" the definition of someone who's codependent, you could most certainly pop in at a few Al-Anon meetings and see whether there's anything there for you. There may not be, but you may be surprised. I for one had no idea what a control freak I was until I started hearing others at Al-Anon tell their stories. I could see things in other people's stories that were too close in my own.

I'd say it's worth a shot. Doesn't cost you a penny, just an hour of your time.

FireSprite

I agree with Seren's points about not fitting a specific mold.... but I think that is also the beauty of an organization like this. You don't HAVE to fit the mold in order to gain something from attending, nor do you have to agree 100% with every single point - I love the "take what you want & leave the rest" philosophy especially since everyone is at a different stage of their own recovery. Things resonate with each of us differently at different points in our recovery, and even within the organization each Al-Anon group is a bit different depending on the active members that participate in it.

I personally think we are all Codies to a degree, but if that is an area that you feel in control of then maybe instead Al-Anon would open you to new views on Acceptance, Resentments, etc. I think these ancillary "topics" or focuses are relevent to a variety of people even if you don't identify as a Raging Codependent.

hopeful4

You know, at CR we have three women's groups. One for Codependency, One for Everything Under the Sun, and one for Chemical Dependency. If there are not alot of people there sometimes we mix Everything Under the Sun and Codependency. There is not much difference. No one that goes into Codependency really even talks about labeling themselves as such. It is really more just being there to focus on what is going on with you in your life and learning to be in touch with your own feelings and actions instead of the addicts. I bounce between both of them and do just fine. I am Codependent sometimes, and sometimes not as much. It really does change in waives, so I just go to which class resonates with what is going on in my life at the time.

I really think it is also about just finding a group who you like and click with and can open up to. I don't think it so much matters what that group is called, or where they are located, more just that you feel like you can open up to them and they know how to support each other appropriately.

Good Luck BC! I think you are doing great!

mattmathews

My wife went into rehab, and at a "family day" I met the spouse of one of the alcoholics. He was in AA himself, and talked briefly about his program and his spiritual progress. As a result of that brief conversation I decided that I wanted what he had. I decided to make Al-Anon (which I really knew nothing about) my entry point into walking a more spiritual path. I decided that I'd really give Al-Anon a try and that I'd go to meetings for a year.
I learned so much about myself in that first year. I met several really awesome people. I've "grown" with several other people who came into the program at the same time it did. But at the end of that first year, I felt like I'd hardly scratched the surface of my spiritual growth...so I committed (myself) to a second year. In that second year I started meditating. I eventually found a Buddhist group to sit with...and then another...and now I'm looking again.
A lot of people say they started Al-Anon to find a way to get their spouse to stop drinking. I'm one of the lucky few whose spouse found sobriety and has stuck with it (almost 4 years at this point). I got into Al-Anon and pretty quickly asked myself the question(s): "Why did I stay? Why was I willing to be miserable for so many years?" Finding the answers to those questions have kept me coming back.
Codependency? Sure. But so much more. Fear, courage, willingness, acceptance, letting go, anxiety, anger, love, numbness...to name a few.
If I had to sum up the point of Al-Anon in a few words it would be like this:
When I came to Al-Anon, my life was a mess, it was completely unmanageable and I was in a very dark place. In Al-Anon, I've learned that a better way of life is possible...and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make my life better. Maybe more importantly, I see that I can make my life better. Me and only me.
Where I used to isolate myself, Al-Anon provides contact with people that understand and who love me. Where I felt I had to do it all myself, Al-Anon teaches me that if I reach out, people are ready and willing to help. Where I saw my life in shades of gray, I now see color.

AnvilheadII

This should cover most questions about Alanon!

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/al-an...olism-magazine

BlueChair

to all.

((Readerbaby)) I will look at the book, havent made it back to the secular connections forum yet but Im headed there next. I was very intrigued by the meditation thread and that site when I looked it up.

I have issues fitting more into my schedule right now. Im in counseling twice a week after work, we have started going to church again together, and they have services on Wednesdays but right now it conflicts with counseling. Plus I need time to not focus on this stuff, and time to spend alone with him. In counseling the other day she even told me I needed to step back a little from all the self discovery and bring in more fun, relaxing, stress free things. I started that last week and it did help.

Ive been trying for a while to figure out al-anon. I guess my main question is what is it based on? I know the meetings are sharing but they also have books and conference approved literature. Where does it come from, is it based on principles of AA? why are they so secretive about it. The website is very vague to me, goes into detail about why you need it, but doesnt get into principles.

CR on the other hand, has a website that tells exactly what they are based on, its all scripture. I read the book Purpose Driven Life suggested there and found it to be excellent. I have researched Rich Warren and a lot of his sermons and things. Its very open about what their beliefs are, what is based on. And I like how they hold their meetings Hopeful. The one large and then break off into groups like you said. I talked to a lady one of the local CR meetings near us and felt very positive. The times they offer meetings conflict right now. I also want to see if my husband is interested going, and I havent even asked him yet. He was fine with our getting back into church. BTW I had decided I was going to start again even if he wasnt ready.

thats sort of where Im at right now.

((Catherine)) How long has it been since the affair for you? Are you still together? Is he getting help?

hopeful4

I agree you need more fun, and you need some focus off of him and to have a life outside of him and all of his issues too.

Everyone in female population needs girlfriend time! You are really doing alot for yourself and should be proud of where you are. Don't overcommit yourself..it will drive you nuts and create a whole different set of problems. However, as I have said before, meetings are what they are. Try one and if you don't like it there is absolutely no obligation to go back, and I am talking Alanon or CR or anywhere.

Remember, you are active in SR and that helps you be able to share experiences and open up to like minded people, which is a big part of those meetings. Sure at CR the Large Groups are nice, but the meat and bones of the program is in the small groups, where you really open up and share. It is also in the 12 step study but that is a big time committment you have to really be ready for, although it does make you focus on your entire life like you never have before. It is intense and I would say you are too committed to other things right now to do something like that is my guess.

Make sure you relax and enjoy your life, we only get one.

readerbaby71

It sounds like Celebrate Recovery would be a good fit for you. Give it a try. I went to Alanon for a few months and the things I learned led me to the path I'm on now. I needed help and when I reached out the people there welcomed me with open arms. Good luck to you! xo

BlueChair

I guess what Im looking for is outside of the 12 steps themselves what is the basis for the program, the conference approved material, who decides what goes in it? what are the principles and ideas behind it? who decides what alanon itself believes? they have to have core beliefs or they would not only used approved material to teach people.

The site you gave me was the one I already looked at, but mostly what I find there is information about what it will do for you, what others say about it, why you should use it. I just want a simple these are our beliefs what we base our program on. I see that with Celebrate Recovery, and yesterday I even found it with the Shambhala 12 step program. So far Im not finding these answers with alanon. It may not matter to some and thats fine with me. Ive even been told by a few people I dont need to know that in order to try it, but I would like to know so I can better understand.

BlueChair

Thanks ((hopeful)) and ((readerbaby)). I took that month off from doing counseling and Im happy I went back to it. I havent been digging deep into my whole life because I feel content with most of it. I have had to dig in and look for answers in how I felt about the affair in terms of my own beliefs and was a compromising myself to forgive him and things of that nature. Those were hard questions and had me in tears at times. I also feel like I have to examine a lot about family and the aspect of children because I need to know how I feel about kids in the mix with future addiction problems. There are a lot of things i have to ask myself what does this mean to me, for who I am as a person, with my set of beliefs. its not easy and now im probably rambling. I think to start as you said ((hopeful)) the meetings alone and see how that goes. Maybe in a short while I will stop going to counseling every week and try alternating the two. Im in a better place than I was a few months ago so I know something is working.

cynical one

If you're actually interested. I have posted the History of AlAnon in the FF12 forum. I've also put a * at the start of the paragraphs that may answer your current questions.
The History of AlAnon

Hammer

ahhhhh. Looking for the Alanon Credo, huh?

You are seeking understanding?

Do you understand why you are not finding it?

You know what a Credo truly tends to do? Allows one who may not have the faith/belief system patched together to instead (mis?)use their supposed knowledge and thinking in place of the faith/belief system.

Really just turns out that way. And that would be a case of your thinking directing your belief, rather than your belief directing your thinking.

Sorry but in the ro-sham-bo (rock-paper-scissors) of a Spiritual Based program . . . . Belief beats Knowledge/Thinking.

But if any of us were as smart as may have thought ourselves, we would not likely be here, huh?

Walk by faith, not by sight.

If you wish to apply understanding, seek and call upon the God/HP of YOUR OWN Understanding to open your eyes that you may see what is there -- not so much your thinking may tell you that you should seek.

Such a prayer will not go unanswered.

This realm is quite outside understanding and knowledge.