Aeryn

My mother is has severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder (I mean the actual real disorder not just the words) in addition to being an untreated Alanon and ACOA. Sigh....we've been No Contact for over 10 years. She was not nice to me during my life - I was emotionally abused, gaslighted and have spent most of my adult life feeling I was a bad person and unworthy of living as myself....I have memories as early as age 5 or 6 of people telling me what a crazy, horrible person my mother had told them I was and how they needed to watch out for me (that was the minister's daughter who had overheard my Mom telling him what a horrible crazy problem child I was - with "mental issues"). In second grade I was kicked out of the advanced placement classes (reading and math) because my Mom told my teacher I was a liar and had cheated to get there (not true). I have thousands of these stories and worse...I was scared to breathe without her permission and existed merely as her "mini me" until I rebelled as a teenager (then things got really bad). She took every relationship I had in my hometown and destroyed it with lies...I moved 3000 miles away and she still found me and almost destroyed my marriage (before alcoholism did). Just the thought of speaking to her horrifies me - I freeze with terror and fear. That said I can think of one or two good memories (that's about it) and I do realize NPD is a disease and she is sick (both with the NPD and the cancer). My Dad was an absent A that passed away when I was a teenager so he is not around. My Mom does have a new husband so she's not alone BUT she has sent me a letter telling me that "she would feel so much healthier if I would contact her". Sigh....the past few months I have found out she has hired PIs to get information on me without my permission found out I separated from my XAH...she has spread the news around my hometown about my failed marriage. She sent me a different letter less than a month ago saying "I know you moved and about your failed marriage".

In the new letter (the latest one) she said "I apologize for all the things I've done that have hurt or offended you".....that in itself is so hard for me because over the years she has told me about a million times that I am crazy and any wrongdoings on her part were in my head/imagined. Then in one sentence it said if the cancer stayed in the bones she could live another few years but it could spread and things could progress quickly. Then she said "If I were I daughter I would not want to find out about my mother's death on the internet. That would be hurtful." That part felt like intentionally trying to make me feel guilty.

Sigh...she has manipulated me so many times in my life...I believe she is sick but the way the things were phrased above to me screams "you are a bad daughter and should feel guilty". I don't know how to respond.

I'm not really looking for advice...just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation. On one hand I feel a nice note wouldn't hurt anything but on the other hand I'm afraid of her, if she starts the emotional abuse again I do not know if I can handle it again...I've been working on it in therapy but I'm far from ready...I still suffer from the automatic response of feeling like a bad person unworthy of living authentically and I just don't want to fall back down the rabbit hole. I do not know if I could stand up to her and withstand the emotional abuse. I did read about the bone cancer what she says is correct it could be quite a few years if it stays in the bones...but if it spreads (she has it in many spots so it could) then her time could be more limited.

This is very difficult....I feel like either way I'm going to feel bad.....


Ps - I have tried limited contact her in the past by sending her cards or presents and each time she has turned it against me by telling me what a wretched child I was for not sending her new husband a present too. I even tried to tell her how I felt in a letter and she called me a horrible b*tch daughter that ruined her life and how her pregnancy with made her gain weight forever and her hair thin forever and she was now ugly because of me and how dare I treat her that way (all I did was tell her how some (not even all) of her actions had made me feel bad).

NWGRITS

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. My AM is the same way, and I've been NC for over a year now. Honestly, I think I would leave things as they are. Nothing has really changed, has it? You're a wretched person, but I'm just going to die if you don't talk to me. Wash, rinse, repeat. As we say here, "more will be revealed." Sit on it for a bit and see what happens.

tromboneliness

She deserves nothing. Whether or not she really has cancer (my money says she's lying about that, just to get you to do what she wants -- but even if it's true, it doesn't change anything), she blew it. You don't get to be a complete ******* your entire life, yet still be able to order people around because you've got the Big C. Too bad, so sad.



T

Aeryn

Thanks for the input. It does read like manipulation to me but I do believe she does have the cancer...our only contact is through these letters and pictures she sent but she gave me the numbers of her doctors in the letter and based on that and how she looks in the pictures I believe the illness.

It's a HARD decision...they way she treated me was NOT ok...not one bit...and NPDs in most cases are not capable of change...and she is a typical NPD and doesn't want to change (because she believes she did nothing wrong and it's all me).

If I were to send a card it would have to be for me rather than for her I think and I'm not sure what it would do for me...UGH.

I'm going to sit on it a few days.

Aeryn

I feel like I'm in a lose/lose situation...if I contact her I open the door for the abuse to continue and possibly give in to another manipulation...if I don't and it's all true I'm a bad daughter and feel guilty. UGH.

With her (and a lot of NPDs from what I've heard) it's like I'm forced to play this game and I can't quit playing...even doing nothing is a move in the game because if I do nothing then word will go around my hometown on the "horrible daughter that didn't even respond when she found out her mother was dying." So no move is also a move...I want off the game board!

(and a tiny part of me does feel bad she's sick...I don't like seeing people in physical pain - she looked bad in the picture....but at the same time I don't deserve the emotional pain she brings me either)

NWGRITS

Do you have a therapist or Al-Anon friend to talk to? Anyone who knows the situation and you feel comfortable talking to outside of your friends here in the box? Guilt is a learned behavior, especially for us ACoA. We have a distorted view of our responsibility in other people's lives. Maybe talking to someone who is a bit more... normal (for lack of a better word) might help. Maybe someone who is doing well in their own recovery from codependency?

Aeryn

haha...yes I was in Alanon for a year before I decided it wasn't the path for me (I need to to practice the differentiation I lost in childhood not start following another set of rules that deep down don't work for me - Alanon actually hindered what I'm going through in some ways rather than helping - imagine the triggers I got in those rooms after you read what I wrote above!! LOL)...my recovery is ALL done through therapy (been there OVER a year)..talked to my therapist about this today in fact..that's where the game idea came to light...it's all about recognizing what's going on.

PS - Both my therapist and I agree I am not codependent in those ways....I quit identifying as one after a year of therapy. I do identify as ACOA and ACON and Yes I recognize this is all about the FOG (fear obligation and guilt!!). I've never felt responsible for her though, it's just the FOG that hinders me. Likely I won't respond to her at all...but I'm considering what is going to help me and my recovery the most. I do need to forgive her at some point....forgive as in let go not absolve.

Honestly I'm doing well in my recovery....this issue is not causing me anxiety as much as it's just an issue I'm working through...just stopped by here for some ESH if anyone had any.

Aeryn

Just to shed some light in case someone else is dealing with an NPD parent...a typical scenario an NPD mother in particular puts the child in is exactly a lose/lose situation one like the one I'm describing. It's a way of maintaining control and keeping me in my place. The key is recognizing it and accepting NPDs generally never change and aren't capable of it.

My decision is based on what I need to do for me in terms of letting this go from my head/emotional space by forgiving (not absolving)...so if sending a card is something I do as an act of letting it go and accepting she is what she is and we can never have real contact again it may be the best decision. I'm just not sure yet.....I don't like what I know she will do to try to shame me (more lies) but at the same time I realize it's her not me and the shame is only mine if I let it be. And she will do something to me no matter what I do: send a card or don't respond. So yes it's a lose/lose but if I can do something that will also help me move forward that is the decision I want to make.


I've been NC with my mother for over 10 years so I think that is a sign of a strong boundary...these letters are the only things I sort of still let happen....so I could decide to go completely NC (no letters or anything..currently she doesn't even have my real address, her letters go to my XRAH's house and he forwards them). I'm just not sure of complete NC is running away from just facing the dragon so to speak in order to let it all go (ie forgive).

NWGRITS

I always said my childhood was one big "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I spent all my time trying to figure out what would make her happy. Finally realized that nothing would, because she was so in her own world that nobody else mattered. Once I got that down, then I had to face the rest of the family who were in denial. Finally jumped that hurdle when I went NC. My NC isn't about not facing the proverbial dragon. I said my piece and just opted to not participate in any further roundy-round with her. I did it for myself and my children, and I don't have any wishy-washy feelings. But of course, we have not communicated at all. I declined letters and packages, and then we moved with no forwarding address. Any communication from her just serves to prove the point that I made the right decision. I never did and still don't deserve her abuse. She hasn't attempted to contact me in a long time, so I figure she's finally realized that I got off the train when she nearly caused me to lose my kids to CPS. She's found other people to suck into her vortex.

Whatever decision you make is for you. If you do decide to send a letter, maybe tell her that you do not want a response, and this was for YOU and wasn't open for discussion. Either avoid any response from her or have the XRAH or someone else screen it? I wouldn't do the latter just because I know what my AM would do, and I'd wish I hadn't known. But anyway, it sounds like you'll do the right thing for yourself either way. Best of luck.

Aeryn

Damned if you do damned if you don't is a good way to put it!!

I'm thinking of just a get well card with no message...the thing about my mother is I know she will never stop writing me so she will write me back whether I write her or not!!! I just want to make a step of me letting her go if I do it. I could stop getting the letters forwarded...the may be a step down the road.

cleaninLI

Hello, I'm a daughter of a NPD mother, too. I know exactly what your talking about. My mother was the same way. Whenever dealing with my mom and had good intentions, I was damned if I do and damned if I don't. She loved spreading lies around the family and close friends too. Thank God I had the good sense to go no contact years ago.

I never attended any support group or went through therapy until recently. I knew nothing about "no contact" or "emotionally detaching" it just happened as a way defend myself and my marriage/children. I just couldn't deal with her guilt trips and manipulations anymore. She was super nice to my 1st daughter (first grandchild) and emotionally abusive toward my 2nd daughter. (3rd grandchild). I had to get away from her for the sake of my sanity and my children's sanity. She would always tell my first daughter how horrible I was as a child and that she was the perfect daughter that she always wanted.( cough, cough).

My mother developed cancer too. Which was a big reason I decided to have limited contact again. We would visit once a year (usually Christmas). My husband rarely went with us because my mother would always pick on him. Find something she didn't like about him. It always made me and our children feel very awkward. I rarely had a good time. It always felt like chore. She ended up battling cancer for 10 years. She died about two years ago. Probably why I kept visiting each year was for my father's sake more than anything. I doubt I would have gone if he weren't in the picture. I always felt sorry for him until I read this forum and realized how much of a codependent he was and how much he actually enabled my Mom's behavior.

Anyway, if it were me and I received a letter like that after I tried a few years ago to send letters and gifts and her response was totally ungrateful and had the audacity to complain that you didn't send something for her new husband, than I would not send a response. Thats so ridiculous! You were sending things to "your" mother. She made the choice to marry that other guy you didn't! If she wants him to have gifts then she should buy them! He is "nobody" to you. You are under no obligation whatsoever to send him a gift! Sheesh!

I do understand how you feel "damned if you do and damned if you don't!" That's pretty much how I felt each time I went to visit my parents. I always came home relieved it was over. That's a horrible way to celebrate the holidays. Now that my Mom has died and my father remarried (very involved with new wife's family) we are off the hook. Lol My kids are so happy to celebrate Christmas at home this year! They don't have o deal with Grandma's craziness!

If you do send the letter. Do it for yourself. Just to make yourself feel that you did what you felt was right. Leave it like that. Make sure you tell yourself that no matter how she reacts to your good intention, you did what you felt was right. Do not let her negative response (if it happens) cause you to second guess yourself.( I know, it's easier said then done. ) Honestly, though, you owe her nothing. She was not the "mother" you deserved. She was abusive towards you and probably caused a lot of issues you have had in your adult life. I know, my mother did too.

tromboneliness

I wasn't at the scene when either of my parents died, and I don't see why it's universally considered such a big thing. I mean, sure, no one wants to die alone -- but my Mom was, sad to say, pretty much insane in her last weeks/months, and my Dad was not able to communicate very much (although I suspect he heard, and probably understood, more of what was said in his presence than we gave him credit for -- at that point, I was like, so frigging what if you hear what we're saying -- what are you going to do about it now?) The last words I heard him say, a few days before he died, were -- and I quote -- "pork sandwich."

My sister was always hoping she could engineer some kind of Norman Rockwell death scene with my Dad, where he would have a moment of clarity, apologize for everything, tell us he loved us, and we'd hold hands as he quietly expired, with a soft string section and maybe an acoustic guitar in the background. But that's not how it happened -- he died in the company of his home-care nurse. I got a call when I was in between two bowling matches, informing me that he was gone. I decided to stay and bowl the second match -- and started with a strike, using one of my Dad's bowling balls, as it happened. I pointed upwards and smiled at him -- but the lack of a Rockwellesque scene at the end has not had any ill effects on my psyche -- my sister may be a different story, but I can't say....

T

Aeryn

cleaninLI- It's so good to find others that get it with the NPD mother...I'm currently doing a very specific type of therapy for daughters of NPD mothers...it has helped a lot. And the truth of it is most aren't capable of change and a book I read said daughters of NPDs either have to have very strong boundaries and limited contact but many go NC. As far as the "forgiveness" I don't really consider it forgiveness in the traditional sense of the word...it will be for me not for her, and it will be me getting her out of my emotional psyche. I probably won't say much as I know it will go on deaf ears.

tromboneliness - I'm not sure what she actually wants from me so you raise a good point...I don't think it's about dying alone because she has her husband.....I definitely don't expect a real apology from her as I know an NPD is pretty much incapable of that. I've already lost a parent so I know it won't be Rockwell thing...my father was an A and passed away in a hospital when I was a teen.

LDT

Aeryn, were you the one some time back that posted the article 'The Harpy's Child'? If so, I want to thank you because it helped me enormously. It clarified a lot of things for me. I am the adult daughter of an (undiagnosed ) NPD mother. It's difficult to describe the pain. People assume I'm coldhearted for feeling the way I do about her. I'm not. Babies are not born hating their mothers....I can more easily deal with my NPD mother now that I am sober. If it weren't for the fact that I need to keep contact with my father that is suffering from dementia, I would likely have gone NC with her 3 years ago. I can't give you any advice, but I can give you support. I completely understand your dilemma.

cleaninLI

I understand about the forgiveness thing. It's for you NOT for her. Now that my mother is dead, I'm trying to forgive also. Just for myself so that I can go on with my life. Just to have closure. I sometimes feel, now that she's gone that I have forgiven her, but then other times I'm not sure about that. Do you know what I mean? It's very confusing.

Shortly before my Mom died she apologized to me. It's kind of strange how it happened. It was while I was sitting in the room where her hospital bed was set up at home in hospice. No one else was there and she was very weak. She was at the point where she couldn't move and was on lots of meds for pain. I can't say that she was sincere or just needed some kind reassurance that she was a wonderful mother. Wanted me to tell her that. Since I can remember, the only time she said something like that was when she needed someone to tell her how great she is. It was always about her. Like during her suicidal threats.

Anyway, I left to fly home and she died the day before Mother's Day with my Dad by her side. I flew back to attend her funeral.

Throughout my childhood my Dad always sided with her. She would say something that I did while he was at work, and then I'd get beat by him (with the spatula or belt on my bare bottom) for something she said I did. These things she said never happened. She would pick at me or insult me in such a way that I would try to defend myself. Then become very angry if I talked back.

Like you mentioned about your Mom telling the teacher you cheated. She would make up stories about something wrong I supposedly did and tell my father. He always believed her, never me. So I would be punished. I remember spending as much time as possible outside my house, just to avoid her.

I was supposed to bring my gym clothes to school on certain days for gym. She would deliberately put them in the wash so I couldn't take them to school. Then I would get in trouble at school. When I brought the letter home and she would check my bag for homework and notes. She would tell my Dad how irresponsible I was. I felt like she was on a campaign to destroy my self-confidence or make me crazy.

If I got less than an A grade, I would be up all night studying. She would give me her own homework on top of what the teacher gave me. She always made my grades about her. "How dare my child get less than an A!" Sorry, I'm going off here.

That's just a few examples. There were so many, many more.

I'm sorry you are struggling with this. I do understand!

Aeryn

Well I did it...I had a moment in the grocery store the other day while walking through the card aisle...I just sort of knew that for me the answer was a simple get well card with a signature. Nothing more nothing less...it's a big step for me because I'm actually quite afraid of my mother and it's sort of me standing up to her because I'm able to send her a card with the compassion I would have for a fellow human being but without letting my head get sucked back into the emotional turmoil. I won't be responding to anything she writes back, it's a card for her to enjoy or not - her decision. I dont' know I feel sort of freed by it...I sort of felt when she sent me these things I would get caught up in trying to decide what to do, so this time instead of doing that I did what I would do for any acquaintance I have at work or otherwise, just a simple card and letting it go.

It may be easier said than done but I feel good about it for now.

LDT - yes I'm the one that made that thread...it was a lifesaver for me, I working through it all in therapy to let it all go hopefully!!

cleaninLI...I get what you mean about the apology..I have gotten several disingenuous ones (long story but basically apologies for things that didn't even bother me to sort of misdirect form the issue) so I'm not sure I would even recognize a real one. I've read that NPDs are incapable of apologizing so I'm not holding my breath.

PS - ...just something random, did your mom ever send your baby pictures and mometos back to you? Mine did - all of them - with a little note "in case you want them." Ummm...yeah I thought parents would want to keep those but whatever. Then I read this book that said that is a common behavior for an NPD mom!

F50Lurker

I don't think you should respond to her. It might make her crazier for a little while, but attention seekers (or narcissistic supply seekers) will eventually give up and go where they CAN get attention.

I think if you reply to her, you are opening the door to more abuse and heartache, as you said: "if I contact her I open the door for the abuse to continue and possibly give in to another manipulation."

I'm very, very sorry for your situation. You're in my prayers.

cleaninLI

That's so weird! Yes!! She did give me my pictures!! One year, when I went to visit, she had mine as well as my brother's pictures boxed up. She gave me mine and my brother his pictures. I really hadn't thought too much about it at the time except I was annoyed that she was so concerned with giving me my pictures, but refused to give me the jewelry and the two quilts my grandma had willed to me. (Inheritance from her mother) Humm....why is that? Did the book say why they do that? Also, what is the name of that book? Is it a good book?

I'm glad sending the card is helping you to let go. I agree, ignore any response from her. Sending the card is for YOU. What she does or doesn't do with it makes no difference.
(((Hugs!)))

Aeryn

OMG! My mom stole my inheritance from my father - approximately 800,000! Long long sordid story but she managed to garner control of the trust and was supposed to give it to me when I was 25...ummm yeah well that was over a decade ago so not happening.

Amazing how alike they are...yeah there is the article LDT referred to as well as a book that lists common traits of NPD mothers and I felt like it was written about me...I'll see if I can dig up the links and post them again here...they were life changers for me...and the book gives a therapeutic path to healing.

tromboneliness

Of course not! Forking over the cash would have meant relinquishing the leverage it carries (or carried) -- since cutting ties would presumably cost you the 800 large, you would, in her diabolical plan, continue to submit to her manipulation in hopes of eventually collecting.

Hey, if escaping meant you were no longer in the money, it's the best 800,000 you ever spent!

T