Making a decision as POA for alcocoholic mom
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Making a decision as POA for alcocoholic mom
This is my first time here and am hoping to get some support as my family is not doing so well with that. A little back story...I am 28 and have an 18 year old sister and 14 year old brother. My mother has been an alcoholic for about 10 years now. For the last 4 years she has been in and out of the hospital about 5-6 times due to several things from the alcoholism. She was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis, malnutrition (she is very thin from losing so much weight), and possible cirrhosis. They have not been able to do a biopsy of her liver because she is not healthy enough to confirm cirrhosis but they can say her liver is severely scarred. She is currently in the hospital and because of her liver not functioning properly, her ammonia levels have been rather high causing her to be very confused.
I just met with her team of doctors. We are at a point now where she is not capable of making medical decisions for herself, and continues to refuse medications and even water at times. She is not eating. They said that there are two options at this point. They can try to continue to get her to take meds (she has been in since Monday so 5 days now) and then be aggresive by doing a liver biopsy, feeding tube, and colonoscopy. None of these things can be done right now because she is not stable enough. The other option is to move her to comfort level care, put her in a nursing home for the end of her life.
I am her Power of Attorney and have to make this decision. I am cosulting with my siblings this evening, but due to their age I am afraid they cannot see reality. The reality for me is that she has not stopped drinking now, so she won't even if she gets better and out of the hospital. So at that point we would have to continue to go through this, and she would have to continue to go through this until she dies. On the other hand, she is only 46 years old and there is a little piece of me that will always hope she can get better, for my siblings, and my son.
Has anyone had to make a decision like this? I know what the decision should be, but this is my mom and I am worried about my younger siblings and how this will effect them (they are able to live with my dad so that is not a concern). I just don't know how to talk to my siblings, and get us all to a point where we can say enough is enough. I just don't want to make the wrong decision.
Any advice or input is much appreciated. Thank you.
I just met with her team of doctors. We are at a point now where she is not capable of making medical decisions for herself, and continues to refuse medications and even water at times. She is not eating. They said that there are two options at this point. They can try to continue to get her to take meds (she has been in since Monday so 5 days now) and then be aggresive by doing a liver biopsy, feeding tube, and colonoscopy. None of these things can be done right now because she is not stable enough. The other option is to move her to comfort level care, put her in a nursing home for the end of her life.
I am her Power of Attorney and have to make this decision. I am cosulting with my siblings this evening, but due to their age I am afraid they cannot see reality. The reality for me is that she has not stopped drinking now, so she won't even if she gets better and out of the hospital. So at that point we would have to continue to go through this, and she would have to continue to go through this until she dies. On the other hand, she is only 46 years old and there is a little piece of me that will always hope she can get better, for my siblings, and my son.
Has anyone had to make a decision like this? I know what the decision should be, but this is my mom and I am worried about my younger siblings and how this will effect them (they are able to live with my dad so that is not a concern). I just don't know how to talk to my siblings, and get us all to a point where we can say enough is enough. I just don't want to make the wrong decision.
Any advice or input is much appreciated. Thank you.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
This really hits home, as I'm 45, and can't even imagine my kids being in this position.
I have no advice on talking to your younger siblings, unfortunately, except to be prepared to do lots of sitting and listening and hugging.
My prayers are with you.
I have no advice on talking to your younger siblings, unfortunately, except to be prepared to do lots of sitting and listening and hugging.
My prayers are with you.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Dantes 9th circle
Posts: 470
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it's an awful place to be, to make those decision for someone you love but who does not love themselves.
I went through a similar situation this past spring when my 71 year old father became so ill from his drinking and on top of being sick he went though detox after 50 + years of drinking which almost killed him. We put him into a rehab where they kept him totally doped up on meds to help with the D.T’s. Then he went back into the hospital for over 30 days in and out of ICU and life support. I had to talk to all the doctors and in the end tell my siblings a lot of stuff they did not want to hear, they got mad at me and told me awful things, but they did not take the time to call and talk to the doctors just shoot the messenger. With G-ds hand my father pulled though, but needed to go into a skilled nursing facility, but I did a lot of leg work and found one of the best in the state and they taught my mother and me how to care for him when we got him home, they did 3-4 hours of P.T, O.T and speech therapy with him for 3 months and he now no longer has to have a feeding tube, and is able to transfer from his bed to a wheel chair and bathroom with help, but at least he can get out of bed and is back home which is something almost all doctor I talked to said he would never do again. If I would have listen to them I would have just put him in a home and waited for him to die, but I could not give up on my father as he has never giving up on me. Mind you he gets nasty mean with me at times just like when he drank, but it’s not nearly as bad as when he was drinking. He has been clean 6 months and as awful as it may sound I much rather have him popping xanax like pez then drinking Crown like water.
Just know you are going to tell your brother and sister a lot of things they do not want to hear, and be ready to be a punching bag from time to time as anger is almost always the reaction when you talk about putting a parent in a skilled nursing home.
I pray for G-d to give you all the strength and support you need during this time.
I went through a similar situation this past spring when my 71 year old father became so ill from his drinking and on top of being sick he went though detox after 50 + years of drinking which almost killed him. We put him into a rehab where they kept him totally doped up on meds to help with the D.T’s. Then he went back into the hospital for over 30 days in and out of ICU and life support. I had to talk to all the doctors and in the end tell my siblings a lot of stuff they did not want to hear, they got mad at me and told me awful things, but they did not take the time to call and talk to the doctors just shoot the messenger. With G-ds hand my father pulled though, but needed to go into a skilled nursing facility, but I did a lot of leg work and found one of the best in the state and they taught my mother and me how to care for him when we got him home, they did 3-4 hours of P.T, O.T and speech therapy with him for 3 months and he now no longer has to have a feeding tube, and is able to transfer from his bed to a wheel chair and bathroom with help, but at least he can get out of bed and is back home which is something almost all doctor I talked to said he would never do again. If I would have listen to them I would have just put him in a home and waited for him to die, but I could not give up on my father as he has never giving up on me. Mind you he gets nasty mean with me at times just like when he drank, but it’s not nearly as bad as when he was drinking. He has been clean 6 months and as awful as it may sound I much rather have him popping xanax like pez then drinking Crown like water.
Just know you are going to tell your brother and sister a lot of things they do not want to hear, and be ready to be a punching bag from time to time as anger is almost always the reaction when you talk about putting a parent in a skilled nursing home.
I pray for G-d to give you all the strength and support you need during this time.
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Is there someone at the hospital who could sit down with you and your siblings? They may need the professional touch to make it more real. And it takes some stress off of you. I don't have a good answer because I don't know what I would do in your shoes. I have no relationship with my AM, and she's been drinking longer than I've been alive. My views are biased from a childhood spent in hell.
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Thanks
Thanks for the advice from everyone. I had the discussion and my sister actually took it a lot worse than I expected. Since she has grown up with my mother drunk I thought she would be more accepting but I was wrong. I actually did set up a meeting with her team of doctors and the family counselor for Monday so that my sister can hear everything from them directly.
My mom was in pain every day for the last 4 years or so, so for me the answer is clear. It is just getting to that point of saying yes, let her go. She is my mom and I don't want her to die. I also don't want to spend the next 10-20 years watching her kill herself anymore. My siblings don't deserve that either. It is very surreal because I never imagine my adult life without my mom, or my son without a grandma.
My mom was in pain every day for the last 4 years or so, so for me the answer is clear. It is just getting to that point of saying yes, let her go. She is my mom and I don't want her to die. I also don't want to spend the next 10-20 years watching her kill herself anymore. My siblings don't deserve that either. It is very surreal because I never imagine my adult life without my mom, or my son without a grandma.
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Originally Posted by fearNloathing 
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it's an awful place to be, to make those decision for someone you love but who does not love themselves.
I went through a similar situation this past spring when my 71 year old father became so ill from his drinking and on top of being sick he went though detox after 50 + years of drinking which almost killed him. We put him into a rehab where they kept him totally doped up on meds to help with the D.T’s. Then he went back into the hospital for over 30 days in and out of ICU and life support. I had to talk to all the doctors and in the end tell my siblings a lot of stuff they did not want to hear, they got mad at me and told me awful things, but they did not take the time to call and talk to the doctors just shoot the messenger. With G-ds hand my father pulled though, but needed to go into a skilled nursing facility, but I did a lot of leg work and found one of the best in the state and they taught my mother and me how to care for him when we got him home, they did 3-4 hours of P.T, O.T and speech therapy with him for 3 months and he now no longer has to have a feeding tube, and is able to transfer from his bed to a wheel chair and bathroom with help, but at least he can get out of bed and is back home which is something almost all doctor I talked to said he would never do again. If I would have listen to them I would have just put him in a home and waited for him to die, but I could not give up on my father as he has never giving up on me. Mind you he gets nasty mean with me at times just like when he drank, but it’s not nearly as bad as when he was drinking. He has been clean 6 months and as awful as it may sound I much rather have him popping xanax like pez then drinking Crown like water.
Just know you are going to tell your brother and sister a lot of things they do not want to hear, and be ready to be a punching bag from time to time as anger is almost always the reaction when you talk about putting a parent in a skilled nursing home.
I pray for G-d to give you all the strength and support you need during this time.
I went through a similar situation this past spring when my 71 year old father became so ill from his drinking and on top of being sick he went though detox after 50 + years of drinking which almost killed him. We put him into a rehab where they kept him totally doped up on meds to help with the D.T’s. Then he went back into the hospital for over 30 days in and out of ICU and life support. I had to talk to all the doctors and in the end tell my siblings a lot of stuff they did not want to hear, they got mad at me and told me awful things, but they did not take the time to call and talk to the doctors just shoot the messenger. With G-ds hand my father pulled though, but needed to go into a skilled nursing facility, but I did a lot of leg work and found one of the best in the state and they taught my mother and me how to care for him when we got him home, they did 3-4 hours of P.T, O.T and speech therapy with him for 3 months and he now no longer has to have a feeding tube, and is able to transfer from his bed to a wheel chair and bathroom with help, but at least he can get out of bed and is back home which is something almost all doctor I talked to said he would never do again. If I would have listen to them I would have just put him in a home and waited for him to die, but I could not give up on my father as he has never giving up on me. Mind you he gets nasty mean with me at times just like when he drank, but it’s not nearly as bad as when he was drinking. He has been clean 6 months and as awful as it may sound I much rather have him popping xanax like pez then drinking Crown like water.
Just know you are going to tell your brother and sister a lot of things they do not want to hear, and be ready to be a punching bag from time to time as anger is almost always the reaction when you talk about putting a parent in a skilled nursing home.
I pray for G-d to give you all the strength and support you need during this time.
My sister did apologize for yelling at me and I told her there was no need. I am feeling all the same things but I am trying to be the rock for everyone else. I am just plain exhausted.
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Being the rock is never easy, I broke down more than a few times and my siblings saw it as an opportunity to kick me while I was down, rather than being there for me in my darkest moments I had to fight them off.
6 months later even though my dad is 100 times better there is still a lot of anger between my siblings & me whats worse is all of them are older than I, but to busy living their life to roll up their sleeves and help just open their mouth and talk smack.
It sounds like your sister is very understanding of her feelings and knows it's not your fault. You need to focus on her and your lil bro because the loss of a prarent due to drug/alcohol use at their age can open a floodgate of drug experimentation to escape the pain of the loss.
Please take the following words from a wise Rabbi and find strength in them as I pray for you and your family.
"Never forget that your true place is a place of light. Even when you find yourself in the midst of darkness and sorrow, know that this is not your home.
Where is your home? Where does your true self live?
It lives absorbed within the very origin of light. From there, a glimmer of itself escapes and splashes below.
All it takes is that glimmer to transform the darkness, that it too should shine"
6 months later even though my dad is 100 times better there is still a lot of anger between my siblings & me whats worse is all of them are older than I, but to busy living their life to roll up their sleeves and help just open their mouth and talk smack.
It sounds like your sister is very understanding of her feelings and knows it's not your fault. You need to focus on her and your lil bro because the loss of a prarent due to drug/alcohol use at their age can open a floodgate of drug experimentation to escape the pain of the loss.
Please take the following words from a wise Rabbi and find strength in them as I pray for you and your family.
"Never forget that your true place is a place of light. Even when you find yourself in the midst of darkness and sorrow, know that this is not your home.
Where is your home? Where does your true self live?
It lives absorbed within the very origin of light. From there, a glimmer of itself escapes and splashes below.
All it takes is that glimmer to transform the darkness, that it too should shine"
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My sister and brother definitely do not blame me, it is just hard to come to terms with reality. I think I am more hurt that they are in pain than I am about my mother passing away. I wish I could take all of their pain away.
They will be fine at my dad's, he is a good father. I have been communicating openly with him about everything and he has been doing a great job of being there. We meet with the doctors on Monday and hopefully they will have some more answers. The hardest part about all of this is that it's not like they are saying she is on life support what should we do. It's like there is a small chance things could turn around but most likely not. It is harder to make this decision when things are still so wishy washy.
We just went to see her and they said she has been throwing up all day long. She has only been drinking water. I just keep looking at her and thinking that she looks as old as my grandma who is in her 70's. She is so thin, down to 73 pounds. I am also afraid if they move her into a nursing home she will live a long time like this and this is no way to live.
Sigh.
They will be fine at my dad's, he is a good father. I have been communicating openly with him about everything and he has been doing a great job of being there. We meet with the doctors on Monday and hopefully they will have some more answers. The hardest part about all of this is that it's not like they are saying she is on life support what should we do. It's like there is a small chance things could turn around but most likely not. It is harder to make this decision when things are still so wishy washy.
We just went to see her and they said she has been throwing up all day long. She has only been drinking water. I just keep looking at her and thinking that she looks as old as my grandma who is in her 70's. She is so thin, down to 73 pounds. I am also afraid if they move her into a nursing home she will live a long time like this and this is no way to live.
Sigh.
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This is such a sad situation. It is SO important that everyone make out a Directive to Physicians, laying out their wishes should they be in this position. It makes things so much easier for the family and prevents family members from being put in this situation.
((((HUGS)))) to you, brandala.
((((HUGS)))) to you, brandala.
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Originally Posted by foolsgold66
Sounds like a very difficult situation. Has your mother ever made any efforts to quit drinking?
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Originally Posted by suki44883
This is such a sad situation. It is SO important that everyone make out a Directive to Physicians, laying out their wishes should they be in this position. It makes things so much easier for the family and prevents family members from being put in this situation.
((((HUGS)))) to you, brandala.
((((HUGS)))) to you, brandala.
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Well with our alcoholic parents they don't really plan for their demise any more than they planned and took care of their life so they wouldn't really do a directive.
Is she speaking to you at all? What does she want to do? Not that she is really capable of making a decision.
Is she speaking to you at all? What does she want to do? Not that she is really capable of making a decision.
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I've not been in your exact situation, the closest I have come is concerning my fathers death. He had cancer which had been diagnosed 7 years earlier and his doctor had discontinued treatment, after surgery, chemo, radiation, etc several times. He was not working but was still fairly able to care for himself with a few exceptions. He was mostly lucid and did NOT want to go to the hospital.
After a couple of days talking with his partner and him and observing his behavior I was able to come to the decision that we would not send him to the hospital but insisted that he was going to be evaluated by hospice.
Hospice evaluated him and placed him in home care, and he died 11 days later. My younger sister (a very young 25 is a nice way of putting it) was very angry at me about this until several weeks after the funeral but then was finally able to understand and accept my decision.
Since then, the exact same situation with cancer has come up twice in my wife's family, but with shorter times between diagnosis and death, and the situation has played out almost exactly the same way with the decision maker and the other relatives.
To cut to the chase, what I'm offering to you is my experience that in all these cases, though there were options, I think the right people were placed in the position to make the decision far in advance each time, and you've said you know what you should do.
After a couple of days talking with his partner and him and observing his behavior I was able to come to the decision that we would not send him to the hospital but insisted that he was going to be evaluated by hospice.
Hospice evaluated him and placed him in home care, and he died 11 days later. My younger sister (a very young 25 is a nice way of putting it) was very angry at me about this until several weeks after the funeral but then was finally able to understand and accept my decision.
Since then, the exact same situation with cancer has come up twice in my wife's family, but with shorter times between diagnosis and death, and the situation has played out almost exactly the same way with the decision maker and the other relatives.
To cut to the chase, what I'm offering to you is my experience that in all these cases, though there were options, I think the right people were placed in the position to make the decision far in advance each time, and you've said you know what you should do.
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How long has she been going though detox?
It took my father a total of 12 weeks before he came back to remember his name, so don't let them tell you there is little hope. Your mother is still very young, if you're able to find her the right help she may suprise you all.
It took my father a total of 12 weeks before he came back to remember his name, so don't let them tell you there is little hope. Your mother is still very young, if you're able to find her the right help she may suprise you all.
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Originally Posted by fearNloathing
How long has she been going though detox?
It took my father a total of 12 weeks before he came back to remember his name, so don't let them tell you there is little hope. Your mother is still very young, if you're able to find her the right help she may suprise you all.
It took my father a total of 12 weeks before he came back to remember his name, so don't let them tell you there is little hope. Your mother is still very young, if you're able to find her the right help she may suprise you all.
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Originally Posted by Kialua
Well with our alcoholic parents they don't really plan for their demise any more than they planned and took care of their life so they wouldn't really do a directive.
Is she speaking to you at all? What does she want to do? Not that she is really capable of making a decision.
Is she speaking to you at all? What does she want to do? Not that she is really capable of making a decision.
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Your mom went into detox about 10 hours after her last drink. A lot of people don't seem to realize alcohol detox is deadly. Delirum Tremens or D.T's is the worst form of alcohol detox. I'm sure if you looked at the symptom list you would see all the issues your mother has listed.
I found a lot of doctors like to give up on alcoholics, and some don't even address the issue if you don't bring it up.
I found a lot of doctors like to give up on alcoholics, and some don't even address the issue if you don't bring it up.
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