Fishy

If you saw them hit their personal rock bottom and they really hurt you in the process?

The response to their personal rock bottom was taking themselves to AA the very next day, organising themselves councelling and a phycologist as they knew enough was enough.

Would you try to work things out and be there for them supporting them or would you walk away?

If you were to stay how long would you need to see the changes before coming back?

suki44883

I think it would depend on how "their personal rock bottom" hurt me. If it was physical abuse, then no, I would not stay with them.

If it were the kind of hurt a loved one feels when their addict suffers what we think should be their rock bottom, then it would depend on how they dealt with that.

Rock bottoms don't have to be events; many times they are just the addict being so sick and tired of being sick and tired that they are willing to do whatever is necessary to change. We cannot determine the rock bottom for another person. That is an inside job. We can only determine when we have reached OUR rock bottom.

overit263

I stuck it out after rock bottom, tears of him saying he doesn't deserve help...where am I now? I went to the divorce attorney today because I worked with him through it a few years ago, and he's been back at it within the past year. I gave all I could so I have no regrets about walking away at all. You have to ask yourself when you make the choice to stay:
1. can I forgive and look past the hurt they have caused?
2. can I get through another relapse and the hurt that comes with it?
3. can I financially protect myself in anyway possible if relapse does happen again?
4. can I protect my health and safety if there is another relapse?

I thought that I knew all the red flags, and it still happened. I didn't see the same signs as the last time. I thought "no money is missing, no belongings are missing" I didn't count on him hiding all the doctor shopping and all the people that gave him money because he made up lies as to why he needed the money....and I still don't know everything that happened at all. He avoids me and blames me for his use. Pretty funny because I don't even drink or smoke, but I'm a horrible person that makes him miserable. I can't say that I'm sorry I gave him a second chance, I'm just glad I set the boundary that the second chance was the last chance. Stick to your guns and always have a plan.

Recovering2

I can only share my experience. My now recovered ABF hurt me to my core when he was active in his disease. The last few months he did his best to hurt my credibility as others started to figure out what was happening. He then got in a car accident, and I packed and left. That was his rock bottom, but I'm not sure. It was definitely my rock bottom. Within a week, he asked me to help him get into treatment. I made the inital call, then handed him the phone. The next day I drove him to an out of state in patient treatment. I still planned to leave for good. I saw his absence as my opportunity to get all my things out peacefully.

I then went to the family recovery program while he was in treatment. I didn't want to go, I was beyond angry and hurt. I did it to show them I wasn't the problem...LOL! But it was the best thing I ever did for myself. It set me on the right path, gave me a new perspective on the disease. He was gone for 60 days, and when he came home I decided to give him a chance.

He is now 9 months sober. He has a counselor, attends AA faithfully 6 days a week, has a Sponsor and works the steps, does volunteer work. I have my own Sponsor in AlAnon and do my own work. I stayed in the end.....but it's been a LOT of work. I had a lot of pain to deal with from what he put me through. He recently made his amends to me, that's when I knew I had to move forward and let some of my stuff go. We work at it every day. Every day. Things are by no means easy, but they're much better than where we were a year ago.

I have no idea where we will end up. I am grateful that I did my work. No matter what happens, I'll be okay. I am grateful each and every day for his sobriety. He knows I have been through his last relapse. If he relapses again, which is always a possibility, I am gone. That isn't a threat, it's just the truth and he understands it.

He never physically hurt me, that would be a deal breaker for me. We're each different in why we stay/leave. I think if we do our own work on ourselves, then we will make the decision that is right for us.

owathu

Yeah, been there done that. So, no. He can come back in a few years of sobriety that he can prove, and I might have lunch. But, at that point, I'll be over it and not want to hash up past history.

In addition, I think my ex's rock bottom doesn't exist. He can't get much lower than where he is right now, and he still insists he's "good".

Prostitution is his next step. And he will justify that somehow too.

Nope.

stella27

I value my own peace and serenity to take a front-row seat to anyone else's crazy. I simply cannot afford it.

Spinner-007

If you're not married, and have no kids with him, then bolt.

I'm sorry if its too blunt but I am both the above, and know this is nothing you want for anyone, including your worst enemy.

Don't have romanticized notions that it will somehow strengthen your relationship in the long run if it works out in the best case scenario. It won't.

It'll cost you mentally, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, and financially.

All for an 'atta-boy' or 'atta-girl'?

No thanks.

Give me back all the things I've lost dealing with my wife and you can call me anything you like to my face, till death do us part.

My advice is to be like the gingerbread man and run, run, run away as fast as you can.

atalose

Fishey,

Not sure what your rock bottom was that caused him to leave but I would think your partner needs more an AA meeting, organizing and setting up counseling on your part to see that you are serious.

Continue getting sober for YOU not for the relationship and maybe in time you can work things out.

brownhorse

No, I would love them and myself enough to let them go. I would go to Alanon and work on me. I would need at least a year before I would even consider talking again.

Fishy

Autistic meltdown (continued ongoing stress and pain from 2nd and 3rd degree burns) and tried to self medicate using a 3 day bender on vodka. I ended up with hallucinations and suicidal ideology (I swallowed all my prescription meds). I dont drink all the time (I binge but never this bad) but knowing I am powerless over alcohol means I have to get help.

funkynassau

It depends how what they did affected me. I'd never stay with anyone who abused me.

I might stick it out for a week or two to see if they really meant it when they said they were going to clean up their act. If it was apparent quickly that they were all talk and no action, I'd be gone. Life is too short to put up with that.

posiesperson

Love is not about what we can GET, it's about what we can GIVE. And that means that BOTH people need to be able to GIVE. Addicts/alcoholics can't do that when they are active. They can't do that when they are new in recovery (which in my experience lasts longer than a year...more like 2-3 years of actively working a program). And then maybe, just maybe, they can begin to give after that. And if they relapse (which is common, especially in the beginning) they have to start all over again.

For myself, I'm not willing to wait around for 2-3 years to find out IF they stick to their program and then wait longer to find out IF they can figure out how to GIVE to the relationship.

I am also reminded that when the addicts I have loved begin to assess what their addictions have "cost" them, the relationship with me has been one of those losses. And that has been a very good thing for both of us. I have gone NO CONTACT and done my grieving work. And moved on. I am much much happier now!

There are a lot of fish in the sea, Fishy. And lots of them are ready for relationship sooner rather than later, without all the baggage/addictions and/or emotional unavailability.

posie

vvl71w

Honest answer? knowing what I know now? I would get the hell out of there and NEVER look back.

My wife had been totaly sober for over a year before she decided that she could handle it. For a while she did. then the odd night turned into the odd weekend, into every weekend, into arguments about the amount she's drinking again..

Finally into Blaming me for not trusting her enough to be able to handle the suituation and trying to control her.

Get the hell out and live the rest of your life rather than regretting it later.

Florence

Every time my STBXAH hit his "rock bottom" it turned out there was another floor down.

I waited two years after he admitted he had a problem and said he was going to address it. He addressed it, kind of, and kept going back to drinking, lying, and manipulating. If you ask his family, they will maintain that he isn't using -- and that includes this April when he went to rehab and detox for the 4th time in two years. He wasn't drinking then either.

Okay.

So that's when I filed for divorce.

You're asking a question based on hope, and my experience in my situation is that hope was what made me set false expectations and gave me continued disappointment. Going forward, I base my expectations on FACTS and PATTERNS. If he is setting a new pattern he will do so. I'm not waiting and watching, because the patterns up until now have shown him to be an unreliable, avoidant, manipulative person, and the facts are that he's failed me and the kids over and over again. If at some point he had a chunk of time behind him (several years' worth) and he wanted to make amends, I would hear him out. Until then, however, I'm not waiting for anything.

Carlotta

I think you need to take the alcoholic out of the equation for one minute Fishy and ask yourself what are your boundaries. What things are absolutely unacceptable for you to deal with (like there was a thread a while back about AOs peeing in bed) and what constitute crossing the line.
Once you know what you are comfortable with and what you are not, then you can proceed. Put yourself at the center of your dilemna. What is ok for YOU?
Whatever it is, it might not be his "rock bottom". For some addicts and alcoholics, rock bottom is death unfortunately
So take him and his newfound recovery or bottom out of the equation and focus on Fishy.
Have you considered going to Al Anon? It might help you. I know that for me it was a sanity saver.
Last but not least, if that so called "rock bottom" involves physical violence toward you or your children or pets, then you should leave (and take them with you) no matter what else is going on.

Take care of yourself

Wisconsin

I agree that the situation will depend entirely on the behaviors of the A (and the codie's behaviors, too), and the circumstances surrounding the "rock bottom."

I will say, though, that I have had several conversations over the past year with the wife of one of my AH's drinking buddies. She and I have become quite close, and for us, it's a two-stage determination. For us, we are not willing to stay with our AHs if they are still drinking. So Stage 1 is: is my AH actively seeking recovery? On this day, August 29, 2013, her husband is and my husband is not.

I am not even willing to waste my precious emotional energy on Stage 2 if my AH is still drinking. For me, Stage 2 is the difficult and painful process of deciding, IF MY AH IS SOBER, whether I can ever even move past and forgive all of the crap in our history to the extent that would be required for us to have a happy, functional marriage. In my mind, at least, THAT is the tough emotional work that faces spouses of addicts in recovery (in addition to their own recoveries as co-dependents, of course).

I have wasted so much precious time and energy thinking about and dealing with and worrying about my AH, that my self-image has suffered, my children have suffered, and even my DOG has suffered. As long as my AH is still drinking, I'm focusing that time and energy back on myself, my kids, my job, my dog, etc. If he ever decides to find sobriety again, then I'll start worrying about whether I can forgive and move forward past his "rock bottom," whatever that may be.

PaperDolls

I think both people in a relationship have the ability to hit rock bottom.

I make changes in my life when MY rock bottom is enough for me. My partner makes changes when HIS rock bottom is enough for him.

Seeing an alcoholic hit a rock bottom generally gives hope to the partner that they will get better. I think the problem with that is who is defining the rock bottom.

I saw my mother hit many bottoms that I would describe as a rock bottom yet she did nothing to change. It was apparently not a rock bottom to her.

I hope that makes sense .... I feel like I'm all over the place with that.

Carlotta

Thank you for posting that Paper Dolls and this is true, us codies have a rock bottom too.
For me with the qualifier who was the reason I went to Al Anon, my rock bottom was when he punched me in the face at the top of the stairs and I went tumbling down.
For some other codependents rock bottom can be their death through DV or being in a car with a drunk driver.

BlueSkies1

People stay too often in relationships that the trust is broken.
Until the trust is repaired, if ever, separation is best for the mental well-being of everyone concerned.
That separation can be extremely painful, and sometimes can be forever.
But, it is more than not, the only way to get through to both people involved that things are not going to continue status quo.
It's putting your foot down and saying enough is enough.

NYCDoglvr

Interesting question. My answer now is no, based on hindsight. In AA's Big Book, Bill Wilson says "drinking is but a symptom" of a more serious disease. Alcoholism, even in recovery, is a mental illness. With 22 years of AA and Alanon under my belt I know that people can and do change if they work hard at it. But it takes a long time and some things never change. What I've learned after all this time is "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". The last time I gave an alcoholic a second chance I grew to realize it was a mistake.