February13

My ex, whom I lived with for close to ten years, has been using on and off
for at least 2 years and has just started to lie to me. Or I started to catch him
lying?
We have a 3 year old daughter so we normally see him about once a week.
He just got treated with that magical plant based stuff and I know he used
afterwards but he claims to be clean, which could be true but ....well, I have no
idea if he is clean but the lying just makes me want to run. I never knew him to lie
before and he lied to me in the same conversation about 2 different things. Both
things were stupid, like he told me he hadn't heard back from the people who
treated him when he was in fact with them.
What's with the lies?
After my Alanon meeting I talked to someone from AA about it and I was told
that the lies are just part of the disease, that he doesn't consciously chose to
lie, that I should ignore them. Well....that's not the way I feel. I feel that he is
showing me he can't be trusted. I feel like I should stop seeing him??

How do you all deal with lies?
Has anyone else had this experience of someone they knew for 12+ years starting to lie about random things?

What does it mean that he is now lying?
Is he sicker than ever?
I keep wondering if he lied before but I didn't noticed. It makes me doubt everything.

I don't want to drive myself nuts with this but if I chose not to see him I probably
should apply for daycare and work as well as child and spouse support as he was supporting us mostly.
I feel kind of lost and confused.

Ann

It doesn't matter why he lies, or why anyone lies. A lie is a betrayal of trust and without trust there is nothing.

Maybe, and I say this with love in my heart, instead of trying to figure out why he lies you could figure out why you would want to be with a person you cannot trust because they are not truthful.

Sweety, you deserve someone who tells the truth, who is genuine, honest...and clean.

Taking care of yourself is a very good first step.

Hugs to you and your child.

Kindeyes

If you want to drive yourself absolutely nuts, keep trying to figure out why addicts do many of the things they do.

The way we deal with "normal" healthy people is all behavior based.....take the drugs out of it. If someone (anyone else) lied to us continually, we would have a trust meltdown. We might consider not associating with them anymore. If someone screamed at us, called us names, or made us feel like crap, we would probably stop associating with them. We give the addict the opportunity to treat us in an unacceptable manner time after time. They learn that they can control us with lies, tantrums, irrational behavior, gas lighting, and myriad of other behaviors that would cause us to walk away from most relationships. But we stay in the name of love.

For some reason (and I have been very guilty of this in my own history), we accept behaviors out of the addict that we wouldn't allow from ANYONE else. We wouldn't think twice about walking away from them.

So rather than ask why an addict is lying or behaving in any manner that is inappropriate, I think a better question is why do we (the loved ones) put up with it or even accept it as "ok" behavior? Because we love them?

For me, I accepted unacceptable behavior because my views had become skewed and I became as sick as the addict. When I started getting healthy and treating the addict with love but firmly holding my boundaries when it comes to unacceptable behavior, something clicked with him. He knew I had let him go......he knew. Luckily, he had enough exposure to recovery to realize the burden was on him to change. I had stopped trying to change him. I concentrated on keeping my own side of the street clean......and treating myself with respect.

What would you do if a good friend lied to you? Time after time? Take the drugs out of the equation. Take love out of the equation. Now look at it with a clear thought process.....is it ok for anyone to repeatedly lie to you?

gentle hugs
ke

someoneswife

When my husband entered rehab I learned that he had been lying to me for 3 years. Hard to understand why he did it, for sure. I have to come to terms with the fact that it is a habit he learned while using so that he wouldn't get caught. That habit spiraled out of control and he started lying about dumb stuff that didn't even matter. The therapist at the rehab told me he will now have to learn how not to lie because he's been doing it so long it just comes natural. From a relationship standpoint for me that lies hurt worse than the addiction. I can accept his addiction readily while the deception is a lot harder to move past. Very slowly I've been able to move forward and he and I were both told by our marriage counselor that it might take up to a year for me to forgive the deception. Not to rush myself into forgiveness to let myself feel the feelings and put them behind me.

wiscsober

So true. Best advice.

atalose

Unacceptable behavior is always unacceptable, addiction is not an excuse to accept the unacceptable. I disagree with that person you spoke with from AA who told you to just ignore it – highly disagree!

I think you should listen to that little voice whispering to you:

Start taking the focus off of him and his addiction and put all that energy into you and what you want in life and most certainly what you don't want in life.

The foundation of any relationship is trust, without that there is no relationship.

allforcnm

My husbands doctor described "lying" to me very much like Someones wife explained it in her post. The doctors gave me an example which was helpful. (I cant explain as well as they did, but will try).

Think about an addict as being like a turtle with a hard shell. The shell is comprised of drug use and lies. Both are there to protect the turtle, and when life gets too hard, they duck for cover under the shell. Drugs block feelings, or make the person feel normal. Lies protect the drug use, and also protect the fragile person inside.

Lies start early to cover the drug use, but soon they become a way to hide the person the addict has become. Lies become engrained in who they are, and even when an addict stops using, the lies linger. They have to unlearn the behaviors as they heal, deal with emotions, grow stronger in accepting who they are -as a person exposed to life. The doctor explained most people cant just rip off the shell and stand there exposed; they slowly come out of it at the pace of a turtle.

How you handle lies will be unique to you. If you view it as a symptom of addiction, then when a person is in recovery, I think you do overlook lies that are trivial in nature, knowing recovery is a process your loved one is going through. You also put boundaries in place to help protect important parts of your life until trust is rebuilt.

Marriage counseling helped both my husband and I communicate better, and I think as he felt more open towards me, then he felt safer, and worked harder on being honest even about tiny things.

AnvilheadII

what is the purpose of the weekly "visit" - strictly so he has some supervised time with the child OR because you want to see him and still be involved? what are YOUR Motives in all this?

you were with him for 10 years....i doubt he JUST started lying a couple months ago. he struggles to stay clean, if at all.

are you saying that right now you do not have a court order in place for support? or alimony? that indicates, and i could have this wrong, that you are not officially divorced yet?

story74

I was with my xah for 16 years. I remember when I started to catch him in small lies. Things just weren't adding up. I never called him out on them. I just let them go. Why? Because I was so exhausted. What was the point? We were at such a low point in our relationship, and I was lucky if he came home more than 2 hours. All I can say is lying is not good at all. I also didn't know how to fix it. Looking back, he was checked out. There was no talking to him. I just had to agree with him. I thought we were strong enough to get through it, and thought it would all pass. We were going through a VERY financially stressful period in our lives, and I thought once we get out of this we can work this out. I was wrong. He was lying way more than I thought. I finally found out that he was having a 6 month affair and doing cocaine. And that is just the tip. Sometimes I look back and can't believe he looked me in the eyes and told such bold faced lies! unbelievable! I have no idea if he had been lying to me our whole relationship, or just when he started coke. I think he lied the whole time. Looking back our relationship was so immature.

So, lying is unacceptable in a relationship.

Hammer

.

wow. Great Thread.

AND

Great Bottom Line.

For better or worse I found exactly what I was fishing for.

So thank you (I think) story74.

jerect

By the end of my 5 year marriage to my exAh I felt like my whole marriage had been a lie.. My ex lied to me so much that on the rare occasions when he did tell the truth I didn't believe him..

Once they start lying and an addict is going to lie, it all goes downhill from there.. I'm a truth seeker.. I would rather cry over the truth then smile over a lie any day.. The lies were worse then the drugs themselves.. Once that trust is gone, you never ever get it back and it slowly erodes everything else..

pravchaw

Shame and guilt due to addiction provides powerful reasons for lying in a relationship. Lying is a direct result of a person trying to protect his addiction (which in turn is driven by the survival instinct) and also to protect his loved one (wrapped logic - if they don't know they wont be hurt). Lying caused by these factors does not, in itself, mean that the person no longer loves or respects his loved one. Lying is a child of a persons addiction and his partners censure of his addiction.

Lily1918

today D and I just had a fresh confrontation about lies.

I simply withdraw from any meaningful conversation. If it isnt about the weather, I dont talk about it.

I never ever tell him exactly which lie I know the truth behind. I never tell him how the truth was revealed.

I am an addict myself, and if I know which lie I got caught in, and how I got caught in it, then I know how to lie better and not get caught the next time.

There is no room for intimacy wih a liar. D will never ever own up to the truth. It was hard for me to.

I simply say "I know you lied to me today" then he will list off what the lie was and who what when where and why are the circumstances of the lie. I always reply "none of that matters. I know the truh and so do you. No sense arguing over the trivial." He walks away frustrated because in reality he has told multiple lies, and does not want to confess to the wrong one.

this is how I confront lies without going around in circles listening to him quack out his "defense"

pravchaw

Lying is protecting an addiction. It is as "driven" as the addiction itself. That is why it persists despite its effect on others, even loved others. Your loved one is not self destructive, he is desperate and overwhelmed by the need to address his helplessness. It does not mean he does not love or care for you.

jerect

Didn't matter if my ex cared for me or not.. After awhile the lies got old and it killed our marriage.. Like Lily I just quit confronting him because I would just get yet another lie..

My ex may have been protecting his addiction by lying but he was still choosing to lie.. And eventually I chose to divorce him because I was sick and tired of the lies, the drugs, the cheating and the lack of trust in marriage..

I don't think my ex loved me.. How could he have.. He didn't even know how to love himself.. He loved his drugs and I was the enabler that allowed him to continue to live in a cushy lifestyle while he continued with the drug use.. As soon as I said enough, we are done.. You are out of here, I was called every foul name one can think of and he spread rumors all over town that I left him for my best friend, another woman.. I'm sorry but that's not love... I did love my ex at one time but his lies and the continued drug use after half assed attempts at sobriety wore on me and I fell out of love with him and it settled down into a mixture of resentment and hate...

Every relationship is different of course but in my case my ex did not love me.. If he loved me he would have put forth the effort to make our marriage work, drugs or no drugs, he would have never cheated on me countless times.. Like i said I was a willing naive enabler for five years..

pravchaw

Every situation is different of course. If there was no love (or the love died in romantic relationships) before addiction then the whole question is moot.

My point is that The actions that are part of the addictive process are impelled by the same powerful drive as the addictive act itself. Lies are common example of this. When they are directly related to the addiction, they are no more a sign of general untrustworthiness than the addiction itself.

A simple test for people living with those who have an addiction, then is to ask the question: How do they behave in areas unconnected to addiction? If your loved one is honest and caring in ways that are independent of their addictive behaviour, that the best indication of their true feelings towards you.

Hammer

She lies about near anything and everything to anyone or everyone.

Mostly to get victim status or attempt to boost her own/others' view of her.

So since she lies to everyone about just about anything, she does not seem to love anyone nor anything?

Am I reading that right, Professor?

pravchaw

I think you are. That said, we have to be careful we don't throw the baby out with the bath water. An addiction is part of a persons overall psychology, is a symptom produced by the same issues that troubles a person generally. Is your partner under the care of a psychotherapist? There may be common psychological areas of trouble driving her lying as well as the addiction.

My son has similar issues and I am trying to get him to see a therapist so he can start to understand his psychological landscape and the root cause of his addiction.

Hammer

Well, first off . . . . Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response to me calling you "Professor." At times I am a jackass. One of my character faults. I am sorry.

ok.

To your first paragraph, yes in Therapy -- so-so quality. She is an MSW, herself, so she knows how to shop the industry to avoid/evade real treatment.

And yes, after . . . Alcohol, Drugs, Self-Injury, and back from Rehab 8 months for an Eating Disorder, and now Chronic Lying . . . it looks a Whole Lot like Borderline PD or BPD traits. But great effort is put in to pretending not.

As far as your son . . . . you must have reviewed the fMRI studies? Speaking in terms of "root cause," and all?

pravchaw

No offence.

Re: fMRI I have reviewed some papers on this subject (I am a pharmacist by training) but came to the conclusion that the neuro-biology of addiction is still in early stages of development though drugs are slowly being developed. Drugs may useful in dual diagnosis cases such as your partner but its hard to separate the strands of addiction from that of other problems such as depression etc.

By root cause I meant "trauma" perhaps sustained by a person in his childhood. Most addictions are as a result of trauma. This trauma results in "helplessness". Addiction is a behavior intended to reverse this profound and intolerable sense of helplessness. This helplessness is always rooted in something deeply important to the individual. It might not be "rational" as you and I would define it, but its there.

Its the addict himself who needs to delve deep into his psyche to understand the root cause of his behavior. You or I cannot do it. The problem is that addiction also causes significant disruption in self-awareness, which includes the ability to recognize internal mental states (emotions, desires, and personal representation of one’s abilities). This is likely to impair an addicted individual’s awareness of disease and his need for treatment.