BeYourself1

Hi all,

I'm pretty new here, but I've been reading many of the threads. Thank you to everyone for sharing their stories and experiences - it has been very informative and helpful.

Anyway, I currently live with my high functioning alcoholic boyfriend. We have been long distance for the past five years and are finally living under the same roof. While he is very caring, loving, hard-working, makes a very good living, likes to travel and exercise, he drinks, on average, 7-9 beers every night. When drinking, he is a relaxed, fun, outgoing and loving individual. While we lived at a distance, he still drank every night, but I only saw it for 1.5 weeks at a time (when we visited), so I could shrug it off when we parted (our routine was 1.5 weeks together, about 2 -2.5 weeks apart). As any codependent would, I broached the topic with him numerous times in the past. And, as you already know, he did nothing about it. Sure, he cut back for a week or so, but it eventually came back in full force.

Fast-forward to now. I told him very calmly how I feel when he drinks and that I am concerned about his health. I also told him, for the first time, that if things do not change, I will not be continuing in this relationship. I tried not to broach this topic again until about two months post-conversation because I know that I can do NOTHING about his drinking. But, he brings the topic up to me. He states that he wants to maintain a quality of life and alcohol allows him to relax, uses it as a reward for the day, it's an escape from the mundane routine, it reduces his anxiety and stress, increases his enjoyment when having fun, etc. He won't go to AA and thinks he can do this on his own (or with the help of a therapist). But, after reading many stories on SR and learning about addiction, the idea of facing this on one's own seems terribly challenging.

I don't know if this is asking too much, but what are your thoughts on this "type" of addict. Has anyone lived a person like this and watched them downward spiral? It's such a sad process, isn't it? Does it make sense to feel guilty about leaving?

Thank you in advance for reading my post and sharing your thoughts.

Have a great day!

SparkleKitty

I'm a little confused about what he thinks he can do "on his own" -- because it doesn't sound like he has the slightest intention of stopping drinking. In fact, he's a provided a litany of reasons he deserves to!

You've stated that you have a problem with his drinking to the degree that it's affecting your ability to stay in the relationship. He has given you his answer: it's NOT a problem for him. What is there to feel guilty about?

"High-functioning" is not a TYPE of alcoholism. It's a STAGE. The disease is progressive. Unchecked, it will get worse. But no one can say if that will take a year, three years, or thirty years. It is up to you to decide what you can live with right now. I know it is hard when you want someone to be their better self, but accepting someone as they truly are, not as you would like them to be, is the first step towards a happier, healthier you.

Tuffgirl

Welcome, BeYourself.

What SparkleKitty says is correct - this isn't a type, its a stage, if he is truly an alcoholic. And hey, I like to have a drink or two myself. Here's the difference. If the person I loved came to me and asked me to quit doing something that was causing them distress in the relationship, and it was a reasonable request, I wouldn't be making excuses about it like a child. I'd honor my commitments, even if it meant giving up something I enjoy.

Having guilt about thinking of leaving is normal, but instead of thinking of that emotion as "guilt", maybe re-frame it as "sadness" instead. Because guilt is what you should feel if you are doing something wrong. Reconsidering this relationship's future because of his drinking isn't wrong - its healthy and necessary. If you've been reading around here, you probably have a good idea how badly these relationships can go over time. So don't ever feel like your own self-preservation instincts are something that you should feel guilty about.

Keep reading, and keep coming back!
Peace,
~T

LaTeeDa

As others have said, it's not a "type," it's a "stage." I married one of those. Had two children with him and ended up broken, confused, and divorced twenty years later. It will almost certainly get worse. Way worse.

L

CodeNameGiggles

Until I started reading here when my husband's alcoholism was first "coming to light" so to speak, I considered my husband a high functioning alcoholic. But then, one day, he wasn't...he was just an alcoholic.

Did he have a downward spiral? Sure. Over the years I saw him go from being a weekend binger to a nightly drinker to noticing a 1.75 of bourbon would disappear in three days. Then, after having few issues with work (or so I thought, he was apparently often late and keeping his own hours), he skipped three days of work, missed a huge thing for his office/career, and attempted suicide. Even then, he still thought he wasn't an alcoholic. He had a litany of excuses for why he drank (boredom, deserved to because he had a good salary, me, etc.) and he unsuprisingly had a litany of excuses/reasons for why he wasn't an alcoholic (work, me, drinking got out of hand, etc.).

He started drinking again within 6 months of a 12 day detox and months of outpatient treatment. Last month, he relapse and went on a huge bender.

Surprisingly, he started communicating with his sponsor the next day and started hitting AA meetings every day.

Would I feel guilty about leaving? No. I too now consider "high functioning" a stage. Sometimes it's a longer phase for some, but it's still a phase.

lillamy

I was married to a man who was extremely high-functioning when we met, and continued to be so for quite a while. An addiction counselor I spoke with said to me that a lot of times, "high-functioning" is what we call alcoholics in a profession where they don't get fired if someone smells alcohol on their breath. If he had been a construction worker, he would have been unemployed years ago -- but in his profession, a two-martini lunch is still not frowned upon... She said the problem is that a lot of times, because they suffer little or no consequence early on, their alcoholism progresses a lot further before they start feeling the consequences -- and when their foundation finally does start cracking, it crumbles fast.

I would say the first 15 years of my marriage was a slow progression to more drinking, more blackouts, more bad behavior. And in the last five, it was hell. Vomiting on the bathroom floor and falling asleep in it, being abusive -- verbally, emotionally, sexually, and finally physically.

I would never in a million years have predicted that turn of events. I thought it was a turn of events. But in reality, it was the logical progression of alcoholism.

You told him you would leave if he continued drinking. If you don't, he'll know you're just blowing hot air and aren't ready to follow up with action. I had that conversation with AXH many times. When I finally did leave, he was still surprised. He never thought I had the balls.

Does it make sense to feel guilty?
Well -- here's where Al-Anon and a good counselor can help. If you feel guilty about leaving him, you don't really view him as a fully functioning adult -- you view it as abandoning him rather than choosing a life without alcoholism for yourself. You always have an absolute right to choose a life without addiction. Whether or not you feel guilty, please remember that. And also remember that if you follow your rational ability to think, act based on that, and your feelings will eventually follow.

And -- as people here told me: You may feel guilty, and that feels uncomfortable -- but nobody ever died from feeling uncomfortable.

cr995

I am amazed because that is almost word for word what used to come out of Ah's mouth when I brought up the subject of his drinking.

I think its hard to see when you are so close how things are progressing. As things start to unravel and their behaviour gets worse we are like the frogs in the boiling pots.

Yes everybody else who has posted is unfortunately right. I also didn't realise it was a phase as opposed to a type.

The things I was able to force myself to overlook soon became things I could not overlook - like hearing him making fun of me and insulting me while talking to his friends when he thought I couldn't hear. That was my turning point I think. If I had anywhere to go that night I would have.

It's funny what makes you snap in the end is not the worst thing that happened but just something you cannot bear.

I hope you're going to alanon because it really is the best thing for us and without it, even though I feel yuk now I know that I would have made things worse for myself if I had not gone.

AnvilheadII

interesting choice of usernames...BE Yourself. does that go for both of you? you've known him for 5 years. you've known that he drank. now suddenly that you are living together, you want him to CHANGE, NOT be himself. he says he is fine with the way things are, BEING himself. and you say, not good enough.

you've brought this up repeatedly, to no avail.
you say DO THIS.
he says NO.

classic stalemate. he's been consistent over the years, doesn't sound like he tried to HIDE his drinking. i am not defending, just contrasting.

BeYourself1

OP here.

First of all, thank you for all the informative and helpful information. I greatly appreciate everyone's insight and willingness to share their experience and $0.02. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to respond throughout the day (I have to limit my SR time - lol), but reading the responses gave me much to think about.

@SparkleKitty: Yes, I've read it is a HF is a stage - I guess I just keep slipping in and out of stage and type. Every time he gives me a set of reasons as to why he should continue drinking, he follows it with, "But you are right, this is not good for my health. I should really stop. I'm going to look into it". After hearing this a handful of times (and reading on SR), I've come to realize that this is just his lip service to keep me at bay. Have you had similar experiences? Also, your comment, "I know it is hard when you want someone to be their better self, but accepting someone as they truly are, not as you would like them to be, is the first step towards a happier, healthier you" is very insightful. It is hard to watch someone you love and grown with not want to maximize their abilities. Is this where "detaching" comes in (serious question)? Have you had to overcome this in your past relationships? If so, what worked for you?

@TuffGirl: Your comment about how you would respond to a reasonable request puts things in perspective. It's true, if my loved one asked me to stop something that was detrimental to the relationship and myself, I wouldn't bat an eye at dropping the habit. As for reframing guilt as sadness, both hurt, don't they? Yes, reading others' stories on SR have open my eyes as to potential outcomes of his habit. Your statement, "So don't ever feel like your own self-preservation instincts are something that you should feel guilty about" is a new perspective for me. Did you go through something similar to this? Was it difficult for you to reframe your feelings?

@LaTeeDa: Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, it does get worse, doesn't it? If you don't mind sharing, what was your "breaking point"?

@CodeNameGiggles: Thank you for sharing your experience. I like to think that he isn't keeping any negative consequences from me, but how would I know the difference? Although he is hyper-active at work for a few hours a day and then exercise, he often complains about fatigue, needing to sleep 9-11 hrs a night. In my opinion, clean up the booze/diet and one's energy will increase. But, of course, I can't get him to see the light. In hindsight, what was the first "sign" of your AH's trouble?

@lillamy: That counselor's observation is absolutely spot on in my situation. If he had to maintain a regular work schedule, it would be an interesting experiment (thanks to his hard work in the past, he works 11am-5pm daily). You noted that you thought it was a "turn of events". He often tells me, "it's just a stage" or "you have gone through tough times and I didn't tell you what to do". But, I don't believe much of that as it's been a 5-year stage. As for me telling him I would leave, this was the first time I ever said that. And, I do mean it (I have a plan on where to live, etc). I haven't told him, but I'm giving him through mid-September to begin some sort of treatment. I feel like he didn't believe me when I said it. What was his response when you finally did leave? Did he make permanent changes? Finally, your comment, "If you feel guilty about leaving him, you don't really view him as a fully functioning adult -- you view it as abandoning him rather than choosing a life without alcoholism for yourself" really hit home with me. I do feel like I would be abandoning him. Is this how you felt? It's true and weird, but for some reason, following one's own intuition can be the hardest thing.

@cr995: Yes, after reading many stories on SR, I realized that the reasons are all the same. I agree, we are like frogs in a boiling pot. I was trying to imagine what I would tell a friend if she told me what I told you guys. And, it's no different than what I am reading on SR. As for Al-Anon, I have yet to go. Honestly, and I know this sounds weak, but I am reluctant to tell him where I am going. I just don't want it to start something. Did you tell your AH when you went? How did he react?

@AnvilheadII: What an excellent analysis of my username! I was simply trying to focus on myself (obviously) and think about what this process is about. Perhaps I never really got to know him over the past five years of distance. I am quite the hypocrite, aren't I? It is absolutely a stalemate (BTW, great choice of words). I'm not OK with this and he is OK with it. What a perfect match! And, no, he is not hiding his drinking....yet. But, it's only a matter of time, isn't it? I know you aren't defending - I appreciate the comparison.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts, insights and experience. It is incredibly helpful and supportive.

Enjoy the rest of your evening~

LaTeeDa

If only I could point to one thing, one "point," that would be so cut and dried, wouldn't it? But, you see, as he spiraled down, so did I. The worse it got, the more I compensated, raged, cried, begged, over-reacted, resigned myself, justified, rationalized.....well, you get the picture. I truly lost myself, and I became someone I didn't even know anymore. I lost the ability to be caring and compassionate, I lost the ability to be joyful and passionate, I became something like a zombie. Trudging through life, barely surviving, waiting to die. This may seem overly dramatic to you now, and even when I was living that way, the description would have seemed overly dramatic to me, but looking back, I can see that I clearly became as sick, or sicker than him. It's an awful way to live. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

L

lillamy

Yes. I felt terribly guilty. I had a lawyer and his partner, friends, doctors telling me AXH was a destructive sociopath and I thought "OMG, he was right - there really isn't anyone other than me who understands him!"

A sane person would probably have thought "Thank GOD I got away from him" but I spent lots of time worrying about how he was feeling, if he was crying, if he has someone to talk to, etc this after he threatened to kill us all.

People here at SR taught me that bu not seeing him as an adult, I was protecting him from having to take responsibility for his actions like an adult should do. That's what we learn from. My counselor hit the right day to say to me "You always have an absolute right to remove yourself and your children from a dysfunctional and destructive situation." And for some reason, that day she got through and I believed her.

Guilt is supposed to signal to us that we've some something wrong. If you left your toddler and moved to Peru, you'd be guilty of abandonment. But what you're contemplating isn't wrong - you are just choosing a healthy life for yourself. So the guilt is misplaced, and useless, really.

You could spend time convincing yourself that there is no need to feel guilt. I did it the other way - I left first and dealt with the useless guilt later. Guilt is an uncomfortable feeling, but it doesn't kill you.

mcaiwas

Beyourself, I'm going to guess that the 9-11 hr sleep requirement is not a sleep requirement per se, but rather a "time it takes me to feel sober enough to consider work again" requirement. You sound a lot like me, 10 years ago. If I could talk to myself then, I would tell myself to run, not walk, back to a sane life.
I watched my "high functioning" husband spiral. I even drank with him at night, so that I could sleep through all the awful stuff that happens after nightfall. I blinked and he'd fallen down the rabbit hole. He set fire to our home, and I'd have died if my stepson hadn't happened to come home at precisely the right moment. He swore drinking off after that night, but two weeks later he was back at the bottle, and I left.
Good luck to you. I think you'll learn a lot here!

Tuffgirl

Yes and yes. Thing is - the right thing to do isn't always the easiest and most appealing. In my experiences, the right thing to do often SUCKS.

I didn't feel guilty about leaving my alcoholic husband and moving my kids away from the chaos and drama that reigns supreme in addiction-fueled relationships. I felt sad and PO'd about it. I didn't want this to be the issue. I wanted my fantasy, my dream. Coming to terms with my own desire to salvage my life, career, and children wasn't hard, per se. It just sucked because it meant letting him go.

But a year after the divorce, my life is much calmer; I am more successful at work, my kids are thriving, and I am happy and grateful for those hard sucky choices because I made the right ones and I am most happy with where and who I am today.

SparkleKitty

1) Yes, I've had similar experiences. My XABF would have said anything to push off talking-about-drinking-again.

2) Detaching is a tool we use to maintain our own peace of mind regardless of whatever anyone else is doing around us. It is incredibly useful when living with an active addict. It is not, however, a long-term tool for having a relationship with an addict (in my opinion)

3) You might not like this part, and I apologize in advance if that is the case. I've had two A's in my life -- my mother and my XABF. My mother, presumably, stopped drinking several years ago although she is not what I would call "in recovery". She continues behavior that has sent me and the rest of the family spinning our wheels all of our lives. Several years ago, for my own peace of mind and my own recovery as an Adult Child of an Alcoholic, I stopped. I just stopped. We currently don't have much of a relationship and it works for me. As far as I am concerned, the ball is in her court. She is a sad woman who doesn't understand why she is not surrounded by her kids. But the power to change that is in her hands should she ever choose to recognize and remedy that. I am not holding my breath. When I broke things off with my XABF I was done. He tried to maintain contact for several months but there was nothing there to have a relationship of any kind with. It's a real shame - he is a very talented, sweet man with a horrific drinking problem that he won't let go of. When I decided I'd had enough of waiting for him to turn into the person I just KNEW he could be, that was pretty much it. No looking back. I consider myself lucky that I was as confident in that decision as I was, and am. Six years later, he is still drinking somewhere and still blaming everyone else for all of the things he does not have.

CodeNameGiggles

Hmmmm....the first sign of trouble. It might be more useful just to point out the red flags along the way. To give a little background, we met in school for a profession where heavy drinking isn't exactly uncommon. I chose to finish school and not continue in that profession, for other reasons, he chose the career path. There were signs while we were still in college that I chalked up to immaturity/college/youth that now I see differently - hitting on girls while with me, black outs, heavy binging.

There were some minor signs once we both had steady jobs, with heavy drinking on weekends and me trying to draw back from the partying.

The flags started standing out more when we bought a house about 7 years ago and decided to have children - from college until then, his drinking, while heavy, was steady and predictable. One of the first flags was depression. He was put on Prozac. Then his eating started being....wonky. Sometimes, he'd go days without eating. Other times, he'd eat 4-5 portions of something. He'd get up in the middle of the night and eat. He was tired all the time - yet it seemed like he slept all the time.

Then, his work habits changed...but I didn't notice this because, one I don't work with him, and two, I left before him and got home after him. So he was late to work apparently often. He was coming home early...often. He called out "sick" a lot. He also had a ton of asthma issues. Then, one day, he was talking about his suits not fitting, and we realized he'd put on about 100 pounds in 1-2 years. During this time, he convinced his PCP that he also had anxiety issues on top of his depression and she put him on Xanax. Xanax allowed him to control his reactions during the day when he couldn't drink, so he'd appear fine. Xanax also made it so that he'd go from zero to fall down drunk in no longer than a trip to the bathroom.

His other trick to hiding the drinking/problems from me was going to his parents/leaving the house. When I was pregnant, his favorite trick was to offer to go pick up food. Then he'd go to get food by way of his parents house, so a quick trip to Subway would take 3 hours because he'd go there to drink then bring back food - then he'd be downright SHOCKED I was angry that it took him 3 hours to bring back dinner. Or we'd go over there, and he'd make multiple bathroom trips where he had taken a bottle and was drinking. Then there were the night sweats, and bed shaking snoring, and inability to wake him because of Xanax/booze while I was pregnant.

CodeNameGiggles

I agree with this. It was useful for me when my husband started drinking again. But I no longer had much of a marriage beyond sharing space and children together.

BeYourself1

OP here again. Thank you to everyone for sharing your words of wisdom and support. I can't tell you how much it means to me to know that I am not alone and that others have been through similar (less, same, more, etc) situations.

@LaTeeDa: Sigh. I was hoping for an easy-to-identify-over-simplified answer. Your comment, "I truly lost myself, and I became someone I didn't even know anymore. I lost the ability to be caring and compassionate, I lost the ability to be joyful and passionate, I became something like a zombie" really hits home with me. I find myself wondering how can I care and show love if he drinks/smokes every night. He didn't drink a couple of nights ago (this hasn't happened in a LONG time) and I found it difficult to interact with him. I'm so used to his nightly routine that I don't know how to behave at night if he is sober. Wow, that is sad. Did you find it challenging to interact with your XAH while he was sober?

@lillamy: Haha, I find myself thinking a similar thought about how no one understands him. Thank you for the reminder that I always have a choice to not live in the emotional chaos that is created by his choices. There is nothing wrong with leaving a grown man who can take care of himself.

@mcaiwas: Agreed - the 9-11 hrs of sleep (and extra large diet soda immediately in the morning) is required to feel sober. OMG, the snoring and bed sweats! While we may start in the same bed, I end up moving to the air mattress in the other room for some peace and quiet. Good for you for having the strength to remove yourself from that situation.

@TuffGirl: My emotions fluctuate between sadness and anger. Your comment, "I didn't want this to be the issue. I wanted my fantasy, my dream" really hit home with me. This is what I want. And, being that I have become so used to his nightly routine, I didn't think that it got any better. But, after living with him full time, I would rather be by myself and alone than with someone and feel alone. I'm happy to hear that you are in a positive place

@SparkleKitty: I agree, detaching is not a solution. Your statement, "He tried to maintain contact for several months but there was nothing there to have a relationship of any kind with" is what I imagine will happen to me. I just don't know how to explain to him how I feel when he "checks out" every night. Perhaps it's not for me to explain? I told him (numerous times, of course) that his need of alcohol tells me that I am not enough and that I want to connect with the "real person". On numerous accounts, he has tried to be intimate with me during the night and I am incredibly turned off. Who wouldn't be? I'm happy for you and your decision to do what was (and is) in your best interest

@CodeNameGiggles: Thank you for sharing some of your "red flags". My ABF is also on anti-depressant meds, but doesn't like them because of the many side effects. He has decided to slowly come off them (on his own, of course) and I can only imagine how that will impact his mood. Oh, and let us not forget the "I'm going to drink my dinner" nights. Yes, that is incredibly good for one's health....and he wonders why he is loosing weight. I hope you and your children are in a better spot right now

Again, thank you to everyone for sharing their thoughts and stories. I was so scared to post, but I'm glad I did

Jazzman

I've seen some awesome one liners here over the years, some that come to mind right off the top of my head...

Don't marry someones potential.
Can you accept him just the way he is right now for ever and ever?
This is the potential father of your children, for a glimpse into their future read up over at the ACOA forum.

I also like to share a thread that was invaluable to me. I followed each step as though my sanity depended on it.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

BeYourself1

@Jazzman

Wow - those are some GREAT sayings! Those statements add to the already mounting evidence that this relationship is on its last leg. And you know what, I told him how I felt (as explained in my first post) and he is not taking me seriously. He really has no idea how his behavior impacts our relationship. Sure, he says he does, but how much is that worth?

Thank you for providing that link. I found it very helpful and will be rereading it daily.

Thanks again!

SparkleKitty

I think you don't actual need to explain yourself. At least...not again. If words could make a difference, we'd have cured all of our A's by now.

But I understand that if you feel like you've been clear, and heard, at least you've done all you could. Unfortunately we can't deal rationally or sensibly with someone who is not, by nature rational or sensible. It can be hard to believe they could hear your concerns but then not do anything about it. But they are struggling against something a lot bigger than themselves, than you, or even the relationship. His need for alcohol is not personal. Nothing about it makes you "not good enough." You are good enough. It's less important that HE knows that than that YOU do.