I thought I was MAD before...that was nothing
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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I thought I was MAD before...that was nothing
After picking up DS yesterday, I could tell he was out of sorts. He always tells me his heart, whatever is bothering him. I waited until he was ready and boom! out it came. He cried and cried for over an hour saying that he misses "his house" and that dad tells him that the reason we are not a family and live together is that mommy does not love him (dad) anymore and he will probably have to sell the house yack yack yack. The thought that I could "not love dad anymore" made him worry that someday I "might not love him (DS) anymore! Of course, I reassured him that NOTHING could ever make me stop loving him and that I DO love daddy, but that we cannot live with him. We talked about things we remembered that caused mom to decide to move. We prayed. Once he felt better and was reassured that I would NEVER stop loving him, we had a stuffed animal slumber party in my bed, even though it was a school night. We laughed and snuggled until we went to sleep.
My son (8), feels like dad pulled the rug out from under him. He told me that the things dad was saying "hurt my heart really bad".
There is more that upset him, but it is enough for me that he hurt our son's heart really bad. NO contact here we come.
I just keep running scenarios in my mind that I will not carry out, but somehow it makes me feel better. I had previously told my AH when he did this the first time that he should not discuss us or the house with our son--like I should actually have to tell a grown adult parent that!!!! We are the adults and he should not have to "handle" any of our "stuff". Now I find out that he says this stuff all the time.
This is completely a case of "what do you have when you remove the alcohol from an asshat? You have an asshat!"
I guess that since AH stopped drinking, I thought maybe we could lovingly co-parent while living separately to the benefit of our son. NOPE. I just want to scream! I just want to confront him and say "What kind of a dad does that to his son?!!!!!!" "What is wrong with you?" "Are you insane?" "How dare you hurt my son!!!!!!!!"
I have been reading about all of you going no contact in prep for this. I will be calling DS counselor to make an appt. Someone told me that some Alateen groups will allow kids as young as 8 to join in. I will look into that.
Can you guys help me with how to explain to DS about no contact and any other thoughts you have...
(Sigh) What would I do if I had not found you guys years ago? Thanks for reading everyone....hugs.
My son (8), feels like dad pulled the rug out from under him. He told me that the things dad was saying "hurt my heart really bad".
There is more that upset him, but it is enough for me that he hurt our son's heart really bad. NO contact here we come.
I just keep running scenarios in my mind that I will not carry out, but somehow it makes me feel better. I had previously told my AH when he did this the first time that he should not discuss us or the house with our son--like I should actually have to tell a grown adult parent that!!!! We are the adults and he should not have to "handle" any of our "stuff". Now I find out that he says this stuff all the time.
This is completely a case of "what do you have when you remove the alcohol from an asshat? You have an asshat!"
I guess that since AH stopped drinking, I thought maybe we could lovingly co-parent while living separately to the benefit of our son. NOPE. I just want to scream! I just want to confront him and say "What kind of a dad does that to his son?!!!!!!" "What is wrong with you?" "Are you insane?" "How dare you hurt my son!!!!!!!!"
I have been reading about all of you going no contact in prep for this. I will be calling DS counselor to make an appt. Someone told me that some Alateen groups will allow kids as young as 8 to join in. I will look into that.
Can you guys help me with how to explain to DS about no contact and any other thoughts you have...
(Sigh) What would I do if I had not found you guys years ago? Thanks for reading everyone....hugs.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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I have a court agreement from the last time I left him that is still in effect that "visitation is as agreed by the mother" because of his drinking. To change that, he would have to go back to the court. Not sure he would do that. If he does, I will deal with it. But DS still wants to see his dad. But I will limit the time he spends with AH--I need to talk to DS counselor etc on what is best. I am having a hard time with this right now and am so mad I cannot think straight. So I will have to decide some of this after I calm down.
But I can go no contact with him myself. Things were somewhat "friendly" in terms of contact since I was under the illusion that we were being "friends" and co-parenting for the benefit of DS. So, now, the only contact I will have is relating to our bankruptcy and DS--only the the things that I must contact him about.
But I can go no contact with him myself. Things were somewhat "friendly" in terms of contact since I was under the illusion that we were being "friends" and co-parenting for the benefit of DS. So, now, the only contact I will have is relating to our bankruptcy and DS--only the the things that I must contact him about.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Ugh! It makes me sad to see grown-ups use their children as tools to hurt another adult.
IMHO, your A is saying these things to gather sympathy from your child, and he is using the child's feelings to get a reaction from you.
Play the tape forward, if you rant and rage at your A over his behavior ~ he wins. He has triggered you to the point of crazy making and he looks like the calm parent. By not engaging in his drama, he looks like the crazy parent.
I think you are doing great by not reacting towards him. Bring your anger here or counseling, vent, scream, curse and yell (do the loud stuff alone in your car). Keep getting the anger out in healthy ways that do no harm to others.
I like your plan to take DS to councelling. Maybe the counselor will have suggestions for helping DS express his hurt to his dad if it happens again.
Sending you encouragement as you limit contact with the sober asshat!
IMHO, your A is saying these things to gather sympathy from your child, and he is using the child's feelings to get a reaction from you.
Play the tape forward, if you rant and rage at your A over his behavior ~ he wins. He has triggered you to the point of crazy making and he looks like the calm parent. By not engaging in his drama, he looks like the crazy parent.
I think you are doing great by not reacting towards him. Bring your anger here or counseling, vent, scream, curse and yell (do the loud stuff alone in your car). Keep getting the anger out in healthy ways that do no harm to others.
I like your plan to take DS to councelling. Maybe the counselor will have suggestions for helping DS express his hurt to his dad if it happens again.
Sending you encouragement as you limit contact with the sober asshat!
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
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Ok if it were me I would not discuss it with my child. He is overwhelmed right now with the very improper discussion you ex had with him. I would say that Dad has gone out of town and will not be able to see him or talk for a little while and reassure him (if he questions) that Dad loves him and will be back soon.
As for Dad I would set some very, very stern boundaries. No contact until he can prove that he will no longer upset your son. Perhaps after a week I would allow a phone call with the understanding that you are on the other line or speakerphone and will disconnect the call should he say anything improper. It may not be pleasant, but when you are ready to allow physical contact maybe it should be in your home for a short amount of time.
I would state, and mean it, that if EXAH upsets your son ever again with an improper discussion, you will go back to court and make that temporary agreement about visitation a permanent one. If it were me it would be sent in an email documenting the discussion and the results of it - best to have as much back up as you may need if it comes down to going back to court.
What a jerk! I'm so glad the Court gave you the tool needed to protect your son. Would be nice if you could get Dad on board and maybe laying down the boundaries will do that.
As for Dad I would set some very, very stern boundaries. No contact until he can prove that he will no longer upset your son. Perhaps after a week I would allow a phone call with the understanding that you are on the other line or speakerphone and will disconnect the call should he say anything improper. It may not be pleasant, but when you are ready to allow physical contact maybe it should be in your home for a short amount of time.
I would state, and mean it, that if EXAH upsets your son ever again with an improper discussion, you will go back to court and make that temporary agreement about visitation a permanent one. If it were me it would be sent in an email documenting the discussion and the results of it - best to have as much back up as you may need if it comes down to going back to court.
What a jerk! I'm so glad the Court gave you the tool needed to protect your son. Would be nice if you could get Dad on board and maybe laying down the boundaries will do that.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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The selfishness of these As is unbelievable to me...I dont know why since selfishness seems to be the number one alcoholic trait, drinking or not. When my STBXRAH got sober, the first thing he did was start telling our son (14 at the time) that I never loved him, that in our 17 yrs together at the time, the only time I had said I did was when I was drinking. I was shocked...I mean, he was the alcoholic and he was trying to make it sound like I had the problem. This all while attending AA. He also said I was the reason we lost our home and that he couldn't see our son on a daily basis.
luckily our son was old enough to know that was not the case. He lived there just like I did and remembered everything that happened and was fully aware of why we had to move out. He remembered that dad would not come in from the garage to eat dinner with us because he was drinking. He also knew how heart broken I was when dad decided to start another relationship ...so obviously I loved him.
Lets just say for a minute that any of what he told our son was true....why would you tell that sort of thing to a child anyway???
I told our son that because of dads drinking problem he obviously remembered things differently and that he would have to think back and make a decision for himself about what is true or not true...a horrible thing to have to say to a son about his own father.
It breaks my heart that our children are forces to deal with this kind of thing. I hope you find a way to make it easier for your son. My son has had a terrible time dealing with the on going comments from his father. It has made him confused and angry ....
he doesn't know who to trust at times and is so conflicted. he shouldn't have to deal with that. School, friends..everything has been affected and the most common words out of his mouth now are "I don't care"...heart breaking.
All we can do is love them and make sure they know that no matter what we are always there for them. Even when he is taking all his anger out on me I tell him Im not going anywhere.
I will tell you this...all the things my STBX has told our son has only made him lose respect for him, and has made it to the point that our son rarely wants to spend any time with him..he has said " Im tired of him disrespecting everything around him"...he unfortunetly has figured out for himself that his dad is troubled...also a horrible point for a son to have to come to.
so sorry your little one is having to deal with this...
luckily our son was old enough to know that was not the case. He lived there just like I did and remembered everything that happened and was fully aware of why we had to move out. He remembered that dad would not come in from the garage to eat dinner with us because he was drinking. He also knew how heart broken I was when dad decided to start another relationship ...so obviously I loved him.
Lets just say for a minute that any of what he told our son was true....why would you tell that sort of thing to a child anyway???
I told our son that because of dads drinking problem he obviously remembered things differently and that he would have to think back and make a decision for himself about what is true or not true...a horrible thing to have to say to a son about his own father.
It breaks my heart that our children are forces to deal with this kind of thing. I hope you find a way to make it easier for your son. My son has had a terrible time dealing with the on going comments from his father. It has made him confused and angry ....
he doesn't know who to trust at times and is so conflicted. he shouldn't have to deal with that. School, friends..everything has been affected and the most common words out of his mouth now are "I don't care"...heart breaking.
All we can do is love them and make sure they know that no matter what we are always there for them. Even when he is taking all his anger out on me I tell him Im not going anywhere.
I will tell you this...all the things my STBX has told our son has only made him lose respect for him, and has made it to the point that our son rarely wants to spend any time with him..he has said " Im tired of him disrespecting everything around him"...he unfortunetly has figured out for himself that his dad is troubled...also a horrible point for a son to have to come to.
so sorry your little one is having to deal with this...
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Thanks so much for your thoughts. I wish my son were a bit older. But he does remember why we left, but he just does not understand why dad would "hurt his heart". In my head, it was like, because dad is an asshat!, but what I said was that dad is hurting and sometimes people who are hurting say hurtful things. But that does not change that I will always love you-no matter what-and that dad should not have said those things to you.
AH will likely lose the house...and that will devastate my son. It is the home he was in since 7 mos old. But all things happen for a reason. I am sure he will blame me for losing the house...oh yeah, cause I paid the mortgage with my money!
My AH's adult children (prev. marriage) have walked away from him. My son will probably do the same. I just have to protect him and support him and love him through this.
I HATE THIS!
AH will likely lose the house...and that will devastate my son. It is the home he was in since 7 mos old. But all things happen for a reason. I am sure he will blame me for losing the house...oh yeah, cause I paid the mortgage with my money!
My AH's adult children (prev. marriage) have walked away from him. My son will probably do the same. I just have to protect him and support him and love him through this.
I HATE THIS!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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Sounds to me like you are doing well under trying circumstances.
The counseling is good, and getting some legal advice would be worthwhile, too. A lawyer may be in the best position to predict what the court would do if it were forced to make a decision, and to advise you so you are in the best possible position if the matter should wind up in court.
Keep breathing, keep taking good care of yourself and your son.
The counseling is good, and getting some legal advice would be worthwhile, too. A lawyer may be in the best position to predict what the court would do if it were forced to make a decision, and to advise you so you are in the best possible position if the matter should wind up in court.
Keep breathing, keep taking good care of yourself and your son.
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These kinds of posts are always hardest to respond to without feeling that same Mom anger. The fact that my XAH hurt my kids lives with me everyday; I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive that, especially since he stated - at 18 months sober (so he says) - that divorcing for us would be "just another day for my kids". As if they have no feelings because they are just kids. Argh is right! I don't blame you for being white hot angry. This is where I lose my serenity and get really angry too.
I don't have any suggestions - just sympathy and hugs. Reassurance is the best way to go here, and you did the right thing by addressing that. But keeping your son from him won't stop the badmouthing, as a matter of fact it may intensify it. Just something to consider.
Hugs and prayers for you both,
~T
I don't have any suggestions - just sympathy and hugs. Reassurance is the best way to go here, and you did the right thing by addressing that. But keeping your son from him won't stop the badmouthing, as a matter of fact it may intensify it. Just something to consider.
Hugs and prayers for you both,
~T
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Just one other thought. You know your estranged husband much better than any of us do, but is it possible he isn't aware of the effect statements like that have on your son? Sure, it's possible it is total manipulation, but it's also possible (not knowing the guy) that he felt he was just "explaining" things.
You are not going to be able to terminate his time with his son based on this one incident (and I totally get why you are so upset), so I am wondering whether, once you have had a chance to calm down a bit, it might be worthwhile to TRY to talk with your husband about how upset your son was, and ask him not to go into ANY discussion about the separation or what might happen in the future, other than to reassure your son that you both love him and will make sure he is safe? I'm only suggesting this because you said you had thought you might be able to co-parent in a friendly and cooperative way. So my sense is that you didn't feel he would be malicious and manipulative.
Your call, obviously--you know the situation better than I do. If you think there is a chance it might have been sheer ignorance about how that would upset your son, you all might be better off if you tried that before taking more drastic action.
You are not going to be able to terminate his time with his son based on this one incident (and I totally get why you are so upset), so I am wondering whether, once you have had a chance to calm down a bit, it might be worthwhile to TRY to talk with your husband about how upset your son was, and ask him not to go into ANY discussion about the separation or what might happen in the future, other than to reassure your son that you both love him and will make sure he is safe? I'm only suggesting this because you said you had thought you might be able to co-parent in a friendly and cooperative way. So my sense is that you didn't feel he would be malicious and manipulative.
Your call, obviously--you know the situation better than I do. If you think there is a chance it might have been sheer ignorance about how that would upset your son, you all might be better off if you tried that before taking more drastic action.
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Lexie, thanks for your comments. He does know because the first time he did it, we discussed it and he agreed that he would not do this very same thing because of the massive upset it caused our son. Now, I find out that he has been doing this all along...after he said he wouldn't. I can have conversations, and he responds like a normal adult verbally, but cannot seem to act like an adult.
I have to wonder if maybe he is just so engrained in victim mode that he cannot help himself to make himself out to be the victim here even to his son....uugh. Or, he is just so completely wrapped up in not being wrong, that it has to look like I am the bad guy. "were in this situation because mommy doesn't love me anymore and now I will have to sell the house" i.e. it's mommy's fault. The thing that burns me is that he is talking to an 8 year old!!!!! He's looking for sympathy from his son, that he hurt deeply when he was drinking, and continues to hurt with his verbal diarrhea.
Thanks Tuffgirl for your kind words and support. You are right that it might intensify things if I keep my son from him. I probably should try to talk to him when I calm down. I still walking around muttering (in my mind-not out loud LOL) Fargin Asshat! When I can stop doing that in my mind, I might be able to have a conversation. Until then, if he pushes for a conversation, he will get the R rated version of those words.
AH likes Metallica...I am reminded right this minute of one of their songs.... "Die, die, die my darlin, don't utter a single word..." If you heard the song, you would understand what I mean....lots of anger in that song....
I have to wonder if maybe he is just so engrained in victim mode that he cannot help himself to make himself out to be the victim here even to his son....uugh. Or, he is just so completely wrapped up in not being wrong, that it has to look like I am the bad guy. "were in this situation because mommy doesn't love me anymore and now I will have to sell the house" i.e. it's mommy's fault. The thing that burns me is that he is talking to an 8 year old!!!!! He's looking for sympathy from his son, that he hurt deeply when he was drinking, and continues to hurt with his verbal diarrhea.
Thanks Tuffgirl for your kind words and support. You are right that it might intensify things if I keep my son from him. I probably should try to talk to him when I calm down. I still walking around muttering (in my mind-not out loud LOL) Fargin Asshat! When I can stop doing that in my mind, I might be able to have a conversation. Until then, if he pushes for a conversation, he will get the R rated version of those words.
AH likes Metallica...I am reminded right this minute of one of their songs.... "Die, die, die my darlin, don't utter a single word..." If you heard the song, you would understand what I mean....lots of anger in that song....
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Gotcha. So you've been there, done that.
Who knows if he knows what he's doing or not? It's irrelevant in terms of the harm it does to your son. It sounds like you countered it pretty effectively. There are some good books (sorry, don't have the titles right now, but a google search should lead you to them) for explaining divorce and alcoholism to kids. He should know dad is sick, that it makes him do things he wouldn't do if he weren't sick. It's clear you don't want to turn him against his dad.
Counseling might help, too--and not only will the counselor be able to help him process things, the counselor might also be able to testify in court (if that should ever become necessary) as to the effect these conversations have had on your son.
Who knows if he knows what he's doing or not? It's irrelevant in terms of the harm it does to your son. It sounds like you countered it pretty effectively. There are some good books (sorry, don't have the titles right now, but a google search should lead you to them) for explaining divorce and alcoholism to kids. He should know dad is sick, that it makes him do things he wouldn't do if he weren't sick. It's clear you don't want to turn him against his dad.
Counseling might help, too--and not only will the counselor be able to help him process things, the counselor might also be able to testify in court (if that should ever become necessary) as to the effect these conversations have had on your son.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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I had the same convo with my STBXRAH...he felt terrible, realized that it was really stupid to do that to our son, apologized to son and me..................
and then did it again...and again....and again....
I gave up...I don't even respond to it anymore.
at this point if he wants to ruin what is left of his relationship with his only son...have at it.
and then did it again...and again....and again....
I gave up...I don't even respond to it anymore.
at this point if he wants to ruin what is left of his relationship with his only son...have at it.
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Well, it would seem he has no idea that his words hurt his son...I got this text:
"You going to ignore me and stay mad at me forever we had a good time this weekend". He is referring to with DS. (Yeah, great weekend for DS--he always cries his eyes out after a "good weekend".)
OMG either he is just really stupid after drinking for so long, or he just can see anything except in how it relates to him. My3sonsnme...doesn't it make you wonder what is wrong with them???? How can they hear how their words hurt, "feel terrible" and then do it over and over again? I just don't get it.
"You going to ignore me and stay mad at me forever we had a good time this weekend". He is referring to with DS. (Yeah, great weekend for DS--he always cries his eyes out after a "good weekend".)
OMG either he is just really stupid after drinking for so long, or he just can see anything except in how it relates to him. My3sonsnme...doesn't it make you wonder what is wrong with them???? How can they hear how their words hurt, "feel terrible" and then do it over and over again? I just don't get it.
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I think sometimes their objective is to get to you and use the children as a vehicle. They don't see it for what it is which is painful to the child, what they see is that the child will go back and let Mom know how badly she has "hurt" Dad with absolutely no realization how deeply the children are affected. Maybe its to provoke some interaction between the Ex and yourself which it does.
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