kittycat3

Hi all, I am new to this particular board...

I'm not sure if my mom is alcoholic, but she sure acts like one. Her issues may be more anger or anxiety related. She does drink and sometimes to excess. When I was a child growing up, she was extremely depressed and neglected me & my sister a lot because of it. (We always had food, clothes, shelter, but not much emotional support.)

Now I am an adult and long moved out of the house. I'm in my mid-30s.

In short, I'm wondering if there is a good way to know where to draw the line.

For example, she frequently bails on plans that we have last minute. She's very non-committal in the first place. I think she has some kind of social anxiety (undiagnosed, of course.) I feel sad and disappointed when it happens. Do I stop inviting her, or keep it up expecting her to decline or no-show?

Another example, recently she canceled on coming to an event that I really wanted her to support me at. Now, I could have been more clear about wanting her there (such as stating to her directly, Mom it is important to me that you come). Instead what I did was remind her about it several times via phone and email, where each time she would say "OK, great" but quickly change the subject, and unsurprisingly it became clear to me she was not going to make it. The day of the event I got a long voicemail about how sick she was (this is common.) She needn't even bother with the vm, I knew she wasn't going to make it given her behavior.

I feel hurt and sad that she doesn't make an effort to reciprocate. If I tell her how I feel, I know she will react poorly (she will end the conversation and it will never come up again.) However, not telling her my disappointment feels disrespectful to ME and like I am walking on eggshells around her.

Where do I draw the line in preserving my integrity but preserving a fragile relationship? I have no expectation that sharing my hurt feelings would result in any sort of healthy discussion- but then again she should know how she is affecting others, right?

How can I come to terms with the fact that I cannot have the mom I want, so that I can truly appreciate the mom I have?

Daughterinlaw

I am sorry that you've been made to feel this way. I can understand completely, my MIL has been doing this for years, she does have anxiety due to a trauma she had in her twenties. She has been self medicating for years. No one has ever made her accountable for her actions, it's always that just the way she deals with things or she dosen't realize
what she's doing. I have had many a Sunday dinner go cold wondering if my in-laws were going to show up or if they did was it going to be a good visit. We recently decide to take a step back and not have a relationship with my DH parents. It is too painful and it wreaks my husband for about a week. I don't know if it will help or hurt at this point but we have to something.

Intrepid

kittycat3 it sounds like you want to continue a relationship with your mom. Given the situation, maybe you can try a different approach to invitations with her. Is it possible to leave her invitations open ended? Let's say you invite her to dinner. Don't only invite her, because if she's a no show, then you are stuck alone. Instead, invite a few people, and then if she cancels, it's not as big of a deal because the event isn't canceled because of her. If it's something that is important to you and you want support, then focus on inviting other people who are more reliable. If you and your mother live within driving distance, you can let her know "I am going to be home all Sunday afternoon and would love to see you; feel free to drop by, but no pressure." Then you can do whatever you would normally do during an afternoon at home, with mindset that a visit with her would be a pleasant surprise.

Changing your approach might help avoid ongoing disappointment for you. I can understand how painful it is that your mother is unreliable. Even though you see that the problem is with her, there is probably some part of you inside that wishes she would push aside her discomfort long enough to be there for you.

I can relate to your mother's social anxiety. I will make plans with people, and feel genuinely excited, but as the event approaches, my anxiety skyrockets. I used to cancel at the last minute like your mom, but eventually realized how crappy it is to do that to others. Now I accept that I am not very social, and I don't push myself into situations that I know will be miserable (for example, parties). I feel more comfortable being open about saying that parties just aren't my thing, but always offer to socialize 1:1 or in smaller groups.

If you ever do talk to your mom about this pattern of behavior, maybe you can acknowledge that certain situations are difficult for her. That way she will be less likely to shut down and is apt be more receptive. At the very least, it might plant a seed of insight in her. For years I didn't understand that my last minute cancellations had an impact on people, because I didn't realize that I mattered to people at all.

You will have to draw the line where you feel comfortable, even if it means that you eventually tire of her behavior and stop extending invitations to her. You should't have to walk on eggshells (easier said than done, I know). Good luck to you - I wish you the best!

kittycat3

Thanks to you both for responding. It feels good to know that someone else feels similar feelings, DIL (although I am sorry for your struggles too.) Intrepid, that is an interesting insight that you didn't realize that you mattered and therefore didn't think your last minute cancellations would have impact...glad you came to your senses

I also appreciate your suggestions. I will have to think about how I could apply them. Your suggestion about inviting others is a good one, but I am not sure it would work with her. Our family is quite small and her friends are few, so I fear that inviting a 3rd person along, while it would achieve the goal of my not being stood up with no plans, would allow her to beg off from the commitment straight away (ie. well since you have so-and-so coming already, etc., I am going to pass...) I could extend the open invite to my house, that is possible. However, she moved 45 miles away from me and doesn't venture out much without her husband - so anyway, I think likely that will end up the same way most of our other plans end up (not happening.) I realize she is not going to turn into a social butterfly overnight. I do know that anytime I wish to, I can go to her house and sit with her watching TV. I do not enjoy this particularly because she keeps the blinds drawn and smokes cigarettes inside which was cool when I smoked, but not so cool now that I've quit - and she turns up the TV quite loud such that we have to talk loudly over it....but I do know I have that if I ever need to have company.
I don't mean to shut down all your suggestions without trying them, and I will try the suggestion of inviting her over soon. I don't mind if she brings her husband or not - I know he would much prefer to stay home and watch football and wish that we could have mom-daughter time, but we can do that on the phone...
She is an ACOA I should mention as well....
Anyway, thanks again for reading and your input.

EveningRose

There's good advice in the previous posts. I always believe in doing enough that your conscience is at peace that you really made a genuine effort.

As to when to draw the line, I'm not sure what you mean by drawing the line, but for me, the line, so to speak was when I simply quit calling my mother. It wasn't a decision I consciously made, so much as recognizing when I moved back home that my sisters had a better relationship with her, deciding I would try harder on my end. I made those efforts for awhile and saw that nothing changed with her, that she still was negative and critical. I made another effort, taking her a birthday present and staying to chat. She was again critical and negative, of me, of everyone. I tried repeatedly to change the conversation to positives, and finally gave up, said good-bye and left, knowing I'd made every possible effort, and just knowing in my heart that I wouldn't be calling her again.

Nothing vindictive, nothing hateful, just that I felt I finally understood there was nothing I could do for her, for our mother-daughter relationship. Knowing that I didn't want to spend my time with someone who constantly found fault in me and would view me as a bad person even if I lived like Mother Teresa--I kid you not, she'd just tell people I was trying to get attention if I did half the good for this world Mother Teresa did.

I just went about my life, and found my mother never called me again, either. Once again, I learned something I hadn't understood about our relationship. I'm at peace with my decisions.

In short, my experience has been that one day you just know. One day, you're just through, you've had enough.

Intrepid

Kittycat3, it sounds like there's not a lot you can do to have more of a relationship with your mom. She seems to be wrapped up in her world of escapism, whether it's sitting and watching television while smoking, or whatever else she does. It's good that you find comfort in knowing that you can go visit with her if you want or need. Your mom sounds passive and apathetic, which I guess is better than her being actively destructive or divisive. The situation still sounds painful though. Maybe you should funnel your energy into more rewarding and reciprocal relationships? It doesn't have to mean ending your relationship with your mom if you don't want to, but just accepting it for what it is, and fulfilling your social needs with people who are able to have healthy relationships.

EveningRose, your post really resonated with me. It was similar with my mother. Constant negativity and criticism, no matter what I did, said, or accomplished. She could find fault in anything. The ending of our relationship was anticlimactic. Just another day of her ranting and complaining, and I knew I'd had enough. That was the last time I ever saw or spoke with her. My life has been better ever since.

Freedom1990

I struggled with that for years and years. I continued to be frustrated, disappointed, angry, and hurt that my mother was not capable of being the mother that I wanted and needed.

I started to get past that once I accepted that she was who she was, and that I was going to have to essentially "parent" myself in order to heal and maintain some semblance of a relationship with her.

There is still very much that small girl inside of me who didn't get a lot of what I needed growing up, and I take the time to listen to that little girl when she speaks up. I have learned to love myself, to validate myself, and to comfort myself when I am scared.

Once I began doing that consistently, things improved so much for me emotionally.

Now my mother is very frail in every sense of the word at age 80, and I am grateful that I have done all the work I have in parenting myself. I have much compassion for her, and am able to be there for her.

Sending you hugs of support!

Kialua

I would extend the invites on the rare chance she shows up, but NEVER expecting it. Go ahead and invite whomever you wish as well and plan on her not really ever showing up. I think it still makes her feel good to be invited, or even guilty.

EveningRose

Anticlimactic.

Great word, and absolutely perfect. I think I'm happy with it being that way rather than a big blowout or me yelling or pleading or explaining--none of which would have done any good.

Isn't it the saddest thing to realize you're better off without your parents? One of the first things I realized after I'd had it with my dad, too, and knew I wouldn't be going back, was that I felt better able to love my own children, without having the pressure of my parents breathing down my neck and criticizing. I find it pathetic that a grandparent would have such a negative affect.

Intrepid

Yes, it is indeed sad to realize that life is better without our parents. I think it was even harder for me to accept that my mom is an unfit grandma. I naively thought that she would be different with my kids than she is with everyone else. I remember literally feeling sick when I saw they way she was with my oldest child (she has never met my youngest). I remember the feeling when I thought "what if she ever laid a hand on her," and realizing that they could never be alone together. It's really sad, and like you said....pathetic.

NWGRITS

If you never expect anything, then you won't be disappointed. That's pretty much how things went with my mother. I went No Contact with her in July, then started talking with her again when my last child was born at the end of October. I'm now No Contact again because nothing had changed I realized that I would never have what I'd always wanted (a normal, caring mother). I was a little let down when she did what she did to make me stop talking to her again, but I had no expectations of her at that point, so it was easier to let go. How you approach this is totally up to you. But, if she's an alcoholic (or even ACoA), I'd just say to keep your expectations low.

EveningRose

On re-reading this thread, this line jumped out at me this time.

For years, I could see my mother's negative qualities. I could see that she clearly had no interest in being with her younger grandchildren. I chose to appreciate that she spent some time with them when they got older.

I think it's valuable to appreciate what we can in people, and even now, I'll gladly appreciate that my mother drove me to music lessons and symphony rehearsals.

Yet I think we can maybe harm ourselves by trying to force ourselves to 'appreciate,' overall, people who continually harm us and put negativity in our lives. By appreciating her, do you mean how do you love her? How do you make yourself enjoy spending time with her? How do you convince yourself you're happy that you have her as a mother rather than someone else? I feel none of those things for my mother, and don't try to make myself feel them. I appreciate the life God has given me, I appreciate some of the positives she did for me in years past, despite her negativity and ugliness even then; yet today, currently, she's a negative, harmful person, so I stay away from her. I pray for her and genuinely hope she finds peace someday, because I know she's miserable, but I don't try to convince myself to appreciate her.

NWGRITS

Agreed. There is a big difference between appreciating people and letting them walk all over us, but many of us spent lifetimes being told that we just needed to look at what good there is and forgive the rest. Or any multitude of other backwards cop-outs on behalf of the alcoholic parent. We usually don't see what harm we're doing to ourselves because the focus is on the alcoholic, not us. As far as we're concerned, as ACoA, the focus should be on us and our recovery.

Intrepid

Thank you both for these comments. This was something I always struggled with. Any time I tried to have a candid discussion with my mom about her abuse toward me and others, she tried many tactics to move the discussion in another direction. One tactic was to imply that I should be grateful for all the good things she did and all the sacrifices she made. This always left me feeling guilty yet invalidated, and I never knew how to respond. My confusion was deepened when I saw a therapist, who was adamant that I should have my mom in my life instead of cutting contact with her. This therapist pointed out that my mom was not capable of being a better mother, and that she never abandoned me, so I should appreciate that aspect of her parenting. Then the therapist reiterated that even though I should try to meet my mom for lunch once per month, that I still need to keep her away from my kids because she is dangerous. It made no sense to me, but did leave me feeling guilty and confused.

Thanks again for offering clarity. This is something I have struggled with for a long time.

kittycat3

I think you guys are getting right at the crux of my question! Thanks for the thoughtful discussion here. I agree wholeheartedly that we must put ourselves and our health first and foremost. But, while my mom can be at times be dysfunctional and unsupportive, she is not all bad and has some qualities that I would like to appreciate more, rather than focusing on all of her limitations. I totally understand some of you may be in a place where going no-contact is the only option for you.

I don't want to force myself to feel only good or to blot out the bad....but I also recognize I was raised in an environment with a lot of negativity and a lot of victimization. I am trying to break out of that mold! My mom today still has this bias where much of what happens to her is a "total nightmare", everyone is out to get her, nothing is good, etc. and I worry that I view her -and actually the entire world, really, but one thing at a time here with the same lens. I want to preserve my sanity so when it's time I can step back from the relationship without feeling guilty, but at the same time feel grateful for what I do have with her because there are times when she is really able to be there (albeit not in the way I want, but be there in a way that it could be "enough").

kittycat3

PS Intrepid, it sounds like your therapist was quite inconsistent! In no way should a therapist tell you what to do in terms of a relationship but merely help you to view it in a different light. At the end of the day it is an individual choice for us all to determine what kind of relationship we want to have, and again, that is what I am asking in this thread. I want to have a relationship with my mom that provides me an opportunity to appreciate her and not simply continue to feel bad about what she is not. How can this be done!??!?
Can it?

VickiACA

kittycat3,

Whether or not your mother is an alcoholic you might check out some Al-Anon meetings.

ACA applies whether you lived in an alcoholic family or dysfunctional family.

No contact does not work for me either. But I'm also 1500 miles away from my family. So I have control over when I visit, how long I visit etc.

A very close person in my life is a workaholic - and inspired by a reading from Hope to Today I realized that I was only viewing him in terms of his problems with workaholism. He has lots of good qualities - but I was focusing on the ways in which my needs weren't being met.

Dealing with any kind of 'isms is tricky and requires that we learn to recognize what is our stuff and what is their stuff and learn to establish boundaries. This is why I recommend Al-anon or ACA.

It sounds like you are on a good path. Keep doing the work. I think it gets easier.

Vicki

NWGRITS

I used to envy people who could come up with genuinely good qualities in their addict parent that directly affected them. My AM did her job well, but even that deteriorated rapidly before she retired. Ummm... She's really, really good at buying stuff and living beyond her means? I honestly cant find anything good about my AM that didn't have strings attached. Al-Anon and therapy have helped me come to terms with what she is, and what she never will be.

Reedling

Two things help me when I struggle with these kinds of issues, which is like every day.

One is that I am in recovery to deal with ~my~ problems with my qualifiers' behavior. They do not have problems with their own behavior. I do, so it is my problem that brings me here. That any person with a scrap of sanity would have problems with their behavior changes nothing, I'm still working my recovery to deal with me. (This incidentally takes care of the problem of trying to decide if they are problem drinkers or alcoholics or aliens from another star system-- it doesn't matter, I am still the one having a problem).

Two is to do my level best to accept my qualifiers 100% as they are, right now. I have to work on this regularly because my ACA brain does not want to do this. Acceptance helps me think about how to find solutions-- how I can have the best possible interactions with my qualifiers?-- rather than, how I can engineer situations to get them to be other than they are.