whatsgoingon

Hi All,

I've been a regular visitor to SR for sometime now but this is my very first post.

I'm a little confused of 'what I am'

Let me fill you in a bit..

I'm in my thirties, have a decent job and wife and 2 lovely kids. I'm not sure if I have a drink problem and I really want to know how you tell the difference between an alcoholic and someone who is not an alcoholic. Simple question..ish!

I dont have a dependency to alcohol, i don't necessarily crave alcohol, I like a drink and sometimes I drink too much. My life can and does exist without alcohol.

From what I have read on here and various sites an alcoholic has a 'disease' and I have also heard an alcoholic has an allergy to alcohol (not sure about that one). What that implys to me is that an alcoholic is very different to the average person. An alcoholic has a physical need for alcohol, an addiction.

I've gave up drinking September last year. I gave up for a few different reasons. I dont consider myself to have a problem but at the time I was going through some stressful stuff (i run my own business) and I was drinking way too much, for me. It got to the point where I just thought, **** this has got to stop or I'm going to have a problem. I was coming home from work feeling quite down after another tough day in the office and I would have maybe 1 or 2 beers and sometimes a glass of wine. So 3 or 4 drinks max. Where as before I might only drink one or two nights this gradually built up to every other night. So I got worried (i worry quite a bit!) and just decided enough is enough and just stopped. I did not find hard to stop and I have not missed it, much. At the time I could just see my drinking going down unhealthy path and I think I got out just in time.

Thing is I'm now kind of scared of drink. I have come to the conclusion over the past 4 months that I can drink if I want to or not drink and which ever is not a problem. BUT psychologically I have now convinced myself if I had just one drink I would ruin everything I have achieved. So confused. I'm quite a clever person and I firmly believe that the drinking was more down to the circumstances I was going through rather than an addiction. My mind however is now telling because I have come this far I should never go back. I think I probably have 'control issues' and now that I have conquered drinking its something that I am in charge of, I don't want to lose that power. I dont know? I'm not making sense.

This is probably the wrong place to come for advice like this because most people on here are desperately trying to stop drinking and what I am asking goes against everything that we are ever told regarding drinking. I dont want to offend anyone, I am genuinely worried about what to do next and whether I do or did have a problem.

As I am a regular visitor to these boards the standard response that a post like this gets, 'if you are asking whether you have drink problem you probably do'. Which is a fair comment but right now that kind of comment does not really help me. I want an open and adult discussion about if there are people like me whose problem may not be as bad as they first thought? Does that make sense? What if I was just going through a **** time and was drinking too much? Just a bad patch in my life? And before anyone tells me 'its your alcoholic voice talking' that does not help either, for me that just sticking your head in the sand and being too afraid to ask these really important questions. Lets face it, some people have major major problems with drink and some not so much. I don't know where I fit in anymore.

Sorry to go off on one and sorry if my tone is aggressive, I don't mean to be, just want to to talk and get some stuff and issues off my chest.

Thanks.

doggonecarl

Welcome to SR. I hope by reading around the numerous threads and posts here, you find some of the answers you are seeking. No matter what anyone here says, it really is up to you to decide the role alcohol plays in your life.

"My life can and does exist without alcohol."

That is not a true statement, is it? If it is, quit and be done with it. But your post shows that alcohol is entwined in your life.

I can only give you my story. I alway thought I drank because I liked it, liked what it felt like, liked getting drunk. Thought I could quit when I was ready...except I couldn't. At some point I went past the line of wanting to drink over into needing to drink. Didn't realize it until I tried to quit. The struggle was all the proof I needed.

So if indeed if you can "exist without alcohol" then do so. You will learn much in the journey.

Coldfusion

I think you are what is known as a "dry drunk." That is one who has stopped drinking but has not tried to remove any moral defects, such as "control issues."

Here are twelve steps from an on-line recovery program I found here at SR. Treat this as a kind of quiz--see if you would like to learn to do these things:

Step 1:

I get it: What I’ve been doing is self-destructive. I need to change.

Step 2:

I see the big picture: The way to stop relapsing into self-destructive behaviors is to build a healthier sense of self.

Step 3:

I have an action plan: From now on, I am squarely facing everything that is in the way of feeling really satisfied with my life.

Step 4:

I honestly look at the effects of my actions on others and myself.

Step 5:

I take responsibility for my actions.

Step 6:

I see that my knee-jerk reactions have to do with being in the grip of more or less conscious fears.

Step 7:

I strive to find my motivation in a deeper sense of who I really am, rather than fear and defensiveness.

Step 8:

I stop blaming and feeling blamed, with a willingness to heal the wounds.

Step 9:

I swallow my pride, and sincerely apologize to people I've hurt, except when this would be counterproductive.

Step 10:

I live mindfully, paying attention to the motives and effects of my actions.

Step 11:

I stay in touch with a broader sense of who I really am, and a deeper sense of what I really want.

Step 12:

A growing sense of wholeness and contentment motivates me to keep at it, and to share this process with others who are struggling.


The Proactive Twelve Steps (printable)

Received

Welcome to SR, whatsgoingon.

My experience with alcohol is/was so different then yours, I feel it would not only be counter-productive for me to try and give you my personal experience and therefore insight into your situation. I feel I would be negligent in doing so.

I drank every day/afternoon/evening until I passed out.

I don't believe anyone can or should suggest you are or aren't an "alcoholic". Based on my experience however, the fact that I used to question whether I had a drinking problem (way back before I became a pass out drunk), was in retrospect a red flag, for me.

I'm sure others will be along shortly to comment.

Please stick around and keep reading. There are so many different forums that may help give you some personal insight.

Ohio1

Nice post by coldfusion- that is a great basic summary of the steps.

Whatsgoingon- you aren't sure if you have a problem yet though- and that is a pretty complex issue. Alcoholism/addiction is a spectrum type issue, there is no blood test where the doctor can point to it and go "yep here it is- he's an alcoholic". Lots of people drink a lot, maybe even to the point of physical withdrawal and yet aren't alcoholics- they can moderate when it comes to needing to. Alcoholics also can quit however so it then gets even more complicated. Attempting to stop tends to be alcoholic behavior, normal drinkers don't usually try to stop. Joining a website to ask if you need help is also usually indicative of a problem- normal drinkers don't do that.

Overall this is a personal decision as to when consequences warrant some action, and what that action is. Just know that there is plenty of help out there and don't let stigma keep you from getting it.

2granddaughters

I heard it put, and in it's simplicity I think it is quite accurate:

If you are a problem/hard drinker, just quit drinking and your problem is solved.

If you are an alcoholic and you quit drinking, your problem(s) is just beginning.


It appears that a substantial period of abstinence will tell the tale.
The Big Book of AA asks the "doubter" to try a year of abstinence or controlled drinking.

In the end, you are a treatable alcoholic when YOU say/believe it.

All the best.

Bob R

hamabi

It's good to look at these things with clear eyes and come to a conclusion for yourself regarding what is best for you to do in the future regarding your drinking level.

If you find yourself repeatedly not sticking with your plan that would indicate a loss of control and a possible growing and serious problem.

If you stay within the limits you set for yourself then you can consider this issue resolved.

It's up to you to correct this and it's also up to you to recognize if you cannot. I might be wrong but what I picked up from your words is you've made a decision to drink again because stopping since September proves to you that any possible alcohol problem was minimal and has been corrected by these months of abstinence.

You'll know how correct you are as time goes by. If you moderate successfully for 2 years then consider this a past isolated episode caused by situations of that time.

And if it doesn't turn out peachy you know where to find us.

artsoul

Welcome Whatsgoingon!

I think you're wise to be concerned. After all, alcohol is very addictive.....it's toxic to the body, it changes our brain chemistry.... there are lots of good reasons to be a non-drinker.

Alcoholism can develop slowly and there is no definitive "line" so it's hard to answer your question fully. Red flags would be: drinking more over time, drinking to deal with emotions, drinking more than you intend to, etc.... Addiction doesn't necessary have to be physical - by the time physical dependency occurs, you're looking at the more advanced stages.

There's nothing wrong with being a non-drinker. I think a little fear (respect?) of the dangers of alcohol is a good thing. Hope you can find some answers to your questions.

Auvers

Hello whatsgoingon. To my way of thinking, what you described about your drinking did not indicate alcoholism at the time you decided to quit. It sounded something like my drinking habits in my 30's. I was not concerned about my drinking then. I continued and by small increments my drinking increased both in the amount I drank and the frequency. Over lots of years, it progressed to the point that I drank too much almost every day. So alcoholism arrived at my doorstep, although I never had cravings, never drank before 5 pm, never drove drunk, never hit bottom, etc. I do not think I have a disease or that I was born with any allergies or tendency toward alcoholism. In my opinion, my patterns of daily living became habitual, and needing increasing amounts of alcohol to produce desired effects, I slipped silently over into alcohol dependency.

So my opinion is that if you see the beginning of an issue with drinking more than is healthy, could not hurt to quit, certainly could not hurt to be aware. Are you alcoholic? No. Could you drift into becoming so? Yes.

DrunkTx

Only because you pre-empted all the standard responses, and seemingly are the type of person that believes difficult conversations are good, and that you are honest with yourself: You are a flaming alcoholic, plain and simple. Is that direct enough? Our resumes are the same: 30's, plenty of cash, awesome family - wife and two kids, and probably the center of our little social community. Drank 2-3 glasses of wine a night. And like you quit cold turkey one fine day 15 months ago, "because I could control my drinking". Well I may have quit a non-alcoholic, but I remain sober a hard-core alcoholic.

I too shunned terms like addictive voice and dry drunk because they were just cliche to me. Truth is call it what you will and it is all the same construct: addictive voice - what nobody shares are the externalities that make you want the drink. Difficult day at work, is only the start. But that difficult likely scratched an insecurity...I did not perform to the best I could have today. This then spawns another insecurity, what will others think of me...which the spurs the fear that if you don't salvage the situation you might lose your job. If you lose your job, you can't take that vacation which will make your wife sad, which will cause her to think you are not much of a man, etc, etc. the thing is your doesn't want to handle all this and remembers you once provided it a brief respite: alcohol. But your mind knows you are mentally very astute, so instead of having you beg to shut the inner monologue down, it mimics the tired strenouse day that alcohol can just ease, and hell you stopped cold turkey before, so surely this is not a problem. This realization so terrified me, I am now afraid of nyquil and listererine. I can start the dry drunk explanation too, but here is my realization: anytime you turn to alcohol to offset some emotional concern: happy, sad, mad, anxious, scared.....you have a problem. I have heard the suggestion about go a year: in my opinion fouiee. Go for as long as you honestly to yourself don't crave that drink to offset or celebrate some emotional state. I bet you will see that people like us use alcohol just as alcoholically as the whino under the bridge. We are just luckier.

hypochondriac

Welcome to SR whatsgoingon

To be fair, I think the standard responses are still valid in an adult conversation about alcoholism. Your view of alcoholism is very simplistic and doesn't cover the whole spectrum of problem drinkers. I wasn't physically dependent on alcohol until the last year or so of my drinking, I drank for over a decade before that seemingly without any problems but I was still very psychologically dependent. It isn't about how much you drink but what it does for/to you. Drinking seemingly made all my problems go away and I relied on it too much. The problem didn't present itself in the stereotypical ways you might think of. I never had a DUI and drinking didn't effect my relationships. But it did have a severe effect on my mental outlook.

Even severe end stage alcoholics once started out as normal drinkers. Allow yourself to see different perspectives of this. If you are worried look into different recovery methods to understand better what it's all about. I'd recommend reading Allen Carr. He see's all drinkers as being on the same path, we are not bodily different from our fellows, just at different stages.

I don't think you can separate circumstances from the addiction either. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Glad you're here and asking questions. That helps everyone x

sugarbear1

Can you just stop drinking?

This is similar to what 2granddaughters said:

When you stop, is life fabulous now that you aren't drinking? If so, alcohol was the problem and the solution is to not drink.

When you stop drinking, is life horrendous? If so, living without alcohol was the problem and you need a new solution to living life without drinking and there are methods available to help you with this new solution.

For me, alcoholism is that I didn't know how to live without drinking.

Some people can stop and stay stopped. Some use SR. Some use other methods such as:

Rational Recovery
AVRT
SMART
Life Ring
Power to Quit
Women for Sobriety
AA

Each of these methods has their own website. Do some research if you find staying stopped is difficult.

Glad you found SR!

Ruffian

Hi whatsgoingon,

I don't know your situation, but it does sound like it might be similar to mine. When I came to this site I thought that I might be an alcoholic. You can find my story on page 3 of the "Class of January 2013 Part 3" thread.

After reading the Big Book and hearing some of the stories on these boards, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably not an alcoholic. But that doesn't mean that I don't have an alcohol problem... even if that problem is that I have come to a point where I really enjoy drinking a few beers every couple of nights, and I wonder if it means I'm becoming dependent on it. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't - after all, if you told me that I would have to give up eating cheese for the rest of my life, I'd probably feel the same way as if you told me I had to give up drinking alcohol - I really like cheese! But I digress.

In response to my own concerns, I resolved to give up drinking alcohol for a full year - this year. So far I haven't had much of a problem with it, and I am still not sure if it was strictly necessary - but what I can tell you is that I feel a lot better about myself now that I'm a non-drinker. It's taken away a lot of the worrying I used to have about my drinking (is four beers bad for my liver? Is three times a week bad for my liver?) and I think it's also given me a boost in my daily energy levels - even drinking a couple of beers a couple of times a week seemed to have a negative impact on my daily energy.

If you are truly concerned about your drinking (and if you've been lurking on these forums trying to find answers like I was, then you probably do have a few concerns), you might want to do what I did and go a year without drinking alcohol. If you find that you're craving it or feel you can't do without it, maybe your feelings will help you to answer some questions about your relationship with alcohol. At any rate you will get lots of support on these forums, learn a lot about alcohol and its effects, and meet a diverse group of interesting and courageous people.

Best of luck to you.

LadyinBC

Makes perfect sense to me. I definately have control issues and power issues. I will never be in charge of my drinking, I can't control it and I really never had that power to control it anyways. Even though I thought I did. Ego plays a big part for me in my drinking. My ego hates that I have no control when I drink. I use to try to convince myself by saying I can quit anytime, I just don't want to. Believe me the joke was on me!

Dee74

Hi and welcome whatsgoingon

I have no idea whether you're an alcoholic or not, but there's been some good advice here.

I do think that once we start to use alcohol as a crutch (be it to counteract stress or whatever) it's very very difficult to stop using it in that way.

it's very hard to stop our use of alcohol increasing too...we tend to find more situations where alcohol might 'help', and we tend to drink more of it to get the desired effect.

It was, in fact, more than just difficult and hard for me - it was impossible.

D

GerandTwine

When and why did you make your first visit here?

Living with wife & kids does not seem to fit with getting a habitual buzz on.

"going to have a problem"? Of course you had a problem. And you solved it. Good work.

You have not missed it MUCH? You're the one saying "I got out just in time."

What if your saying "I'm now kind of scared to drink." is you recognizing a slippery slope of drinking and you saved yourself from a huge amount of grief down the road? As I see it, this last paragraph is the most revealing. You want us to tell you you have nothing to fear. But what IF you weren't just going through a bad time. What if that appetite for booze was getting ingrained to the point that you would begin sacrificing your values more and more?

Of course alcohol is prevalent in our cultures. It's marketed as a right of passage into adulthood and as an ongoing right as an adult to the point that there are numerous sub-cultures in our world that revolve around various levels of tipsiness (wine clubs, pubs, sports events, holidays, and scores of others). But for you to catch yourself and cease the behavior of going home to drink in front of your wife and kids - now, there's something really commendable. Why on earth would you want to risk that again? Could it have to do with the "much" that you don't miss drinking? Imagine as hard as you can what it feels like right now that you may NEVER experience that buzz from booze - EVER again. How does that really feel?

If you're not dependent on booze, why not just stay quit? No big deal. If you are dependent on booze, wow, you got it in time. Congratulations.

whatsgoingon

Wow. Was not expecting that.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to my first post. So much information and so many opinions! Just goes to show drinking and alcoholism is so emotive. It also shows that alcohol affects people in so many different ways. Alcohol in many ways can be a taboo subject, the 'elephant in the room' as they say. I was afraid to ask if I had a problem. I was also afraid to ask what everyone thought. Lots of people instantly think that because you are on a forum like this you have a problem, simple. Its not that simple though. I thought I had a problem now I'm not sure if it was the alcohol that was the problem. Stress was the catalyst and I was drinking more than normal so I gave up, is that an admission of alcoholism? I would not have questioned my health or lifestyle if I was not under pressure and behaving abnormally. I spotted the issue and dealt with it.

Some of the posts made me feel like a fraud, some made me feel like an alchy and some made me feel uplifted because there are others who are similar to me.

I have to admit I am bit lost for words, a few comments hit a raw nerve but that's good, its made me think and question. What I have read will take a while to sink in and I will have to re-read to really understand the points people have made.

I think a common theme of the posts were that maybe I was lucky because I spotted my problems before they got out of control. Alternatively some of the posts basically said I was in denial! Both maybe true, I'm no expert! In times of trouble lots of people do extreme things. Some take drugs, drink, self harm, get violent. When things get me down I tend to dwell, think, worry. Sometimes I relieve this by going to the gym, going for a walk and on occasions I have had a drink, but then so do lots of other people?

I still dont really know whether or not I'm an alcoholic? Sorry, I must sound like a stuck record! I think that I'm probably not an alcohol and its more likely that I'm someone who has abused alcohol and has the potential to develop a drinking problem. I feel that I should keep on eye on my drinking, mind you, shouldn't everyone?

One of the reason which drove me to drink more than I should was stress. Its an all too common reason on these forums. Stress and depression are probably known triggers for drinking? I have suffered with depression since I was a teenager. Its not nice but I get on with it and it does not stop me leading a normal life. I gave up drinking last September because I thought that it might help ease the depression and stress. Unfortunately it did not. Whether I drink or not my depression is always there is the back ground. The only way I could get rid of the stress was to actually deal with the problem I had! Maybe giving up drinking helped me focus on what needed to be done?

It is easy to say that because "I ask therefore I am". I am obviously worried and concerned about my health/well-being but that in itself does not make me an addict. I have issues admittedly, but are those issues caused by alcohol, made worse by alcohol or in fact have nothing to do with alcohol? I dont know.

I feel torn. Not knowing what to do. So I guess for now I'll do nothing. I really appreciate everyone contribution on here. All opinions count so please feel free to shoot from the lip. I'm glad I came on here and asked, it has definitely helped.

Thanks

LadyinBC

Please don't feel like a fraud. You had legitimate concerns and asked for opionons. Please remember that these are people opinions and people do have the best intentions even though some of the posts might seem harsh or not what you want to hear.

People are giving you their thoughts which come from their experiences. Things they have seen and heard and done while recovering or using. And soemtimes we learn to be blunt.

I think it is great that you posted and acknowledged that you have some concerns. That takes guts, I never would have done it when I was drinking.

No one can really judge if you are an alcoholic or not. That is something a person has to figure out for themselves.

Good luck and keep posting!

FatallyUncool

I think this is the right place to ask this, and your posts make perfect sense.

Are you at peace with your life?

I'm not, and I also experience depression, stress and fear, and I have used substances to feel better about it.

But the sense of peace they gave me was false, and eventually stopped working altogether, no matter how much I ingested.

I'm clean now, and still not at peace. I am on a journey to find peace, happiness, gratitude and serenity. For me, the substance is not the problem, just a symptom.

Will69

Hi, you are silent about the times when you drank 'too much'.
I drank in the way you describe, but when I drank too much I damaged my life in a way that has caused myself and others harm.
Good luck.