Really struggling!
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hood River
Posts: 10
Really struggling!
I am really struggling here. I asked my daughter to move out as of tomorrow. I previously posted under "needing encouragement".
Bottom line is we let our 18 year old daughter move back in a month ago with the stipulation that she look for a job and NOT drink. Well, she put in little effort to get a job and then came home 4 hours late (2 am) a few days ago and was very drunk.
She thought she had a place to go and stay tomorow, but was just told today it isn't going to work out. She is sitting there crying telling me her only option is to stay with some guy out in the middle of no where that she doesn't trust. She also started crying telling me that she doesn't trust herself not to hurt herself while she is out there all alone.
I stood my ground and reminded her that she chose to drink, she chose not to follow the rules that we laid out for her the past month. Our rules were very easy, home by 10, no drinking, up by 9 am, looking for a job monday thru friday and studying for her license every day. She got up by 9, spent an hour each day looking and did not even try to study for her license. But the clincher was the drinking. I cannot put up with it and expose my younger kids to it any longer. I know that she drank a few other times as well the past month, but she lied about it.
BUT when she is crying telling me she has nowhere to go it is all I can do not to tell her she can stay.
I DID NOT Tell her that, but I want to! I am so afraid for her.
My husband is standing his ground and will not even consider letting her stay. He is also sick of me talking about it and I am just hurting so bad right now. I keep telling myself if I go back on the consequences now I am only hurting her in the long run. But then I think how am I going to feel if she kills herself?
I need strength. The thought of her out there all alone is killing me.
Bottom line is we let our 18 year old daughter move back in a month ago with the stipulation that she look for a job and NOT drink. Well, she put in little effort to get a job and then came home 4 hours late (2 am) a few days ago and was very drunk.
She thought she had a place to go and stay tomorow, but was just told today it isn't going to work out. She is sitting there crying telling me her only option is to stay with some guy out in the middle of no where that she doesn't trust. She also started crying telling me that she doesn't trust herself not to hurt herself while she is out there all alone.
I stood my ground and reminded her that she chose to drink, she chose not to follow the rules that we laid out for her the past month. Our rules were very easy, home by 10, no drinking, up by 9 am, looking for a job monday thru friday and studying for her license every day. She got up by 9, spent an hour each day looking and did not even try to study for her license. But the clincher was the drinking. I cannot put up with it and expose my younger kids to it any longer. I know that she drank a few other times as well the past month, but she lied about it.
BUT when she is crying telling me she has nowhere to go it is all I can do not to tell her she can stay.
I DID NOT Tell her that, but I want to! I am so afraid for her.
My husband is standing his ground and will not even consider letting her stay. He is also sick of me talking about it and I am just hurting so bad right now. I keep telling myself if I go back on the consequences now I am only hurting her in the long run. But then I think how am I going to feel if she kills herself?
I need strength. The thought of her out there all alone is killing me.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Hi Julie, I am so sorry for your pain. Nothing is more heartbreaking then an addicted loved one, especially a child.
There are many mothers here who have heard the same thing. Fortunately, the posts I have read, the threats were nothing more then attempts to manipulate. Many share that when their child threatens "to harm" themselves, calling 911 has helped. If she is being honest, she will get the help she needs. If she is attempting to manipulate you, she will rethink it in the future. (There is good thread on this very subject, I will try to find it for you).
Has your daughter considered other options? Rehab? Sober living house?
There are many mothers here who have heard the same thing. Fortunately, the posts I have read, the threats were nothing more then attempts to manipulate. Many share that when their child threatens "to harm" themselves, calling 911 has helped. If she is being honest, she will get the help she needs. If she is attempting to manipulate you, she will rethink it in the future. (There is good thread on this very subject, I will try to find it for you).
Has your daughter considered other options? Rehab? Sober living house?
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Posted by Cynical One - she has a very informative blog on various subjects. You can find it with the search button and type her name in!
Feeling Manipulated by Suicide Threats?
Posted 06-09-2012 at 02:27 AM by cynical one
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Feeling Manipulated by Suicide Threats?
~By Kate Thieda
“If you leave me, I will kill myself.”
“You don’t really care if I live or die. Why don’t I just kill myself–then everyone will be happy.”
“If you loved me, you would do what I tell you.”
If you are on the receiving end of threats like these, whether they come from your partner, your parent, your sibling, your child, or your friend, it can feel like a bucket of ice water has been poured over your head.
Mental illnesses come with the risk of suicide. Some diagnoses, such as borderline personality disorder, come with a 10% suicide completion rate, although there are often many attempts that are unsuccessful or are simply an exaggerated cry for help. Other disorders, including depression, eating disorders, and substance abuse, carry suicide risks as well.
If the person in your life truly wants to die and/or has a suicide plan and a means to carry out that plan, you need immediate assistance. Call 911 or your local emergency number for assistance. Alternatively, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Helpline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255).
Always take threats seriously and follow through with calling for help.
But what if you are constantly on the receiving end of threats like the ones above? Feelings of wanting to help soon turn to anger and resentment. Being constantly bombarded by comments from another person threatening to kill themselves is emotional blackmail. You never know what will come next, and as a result, feelings of anger, resentment, and fear all build up. It may feel like you have no choice but to do exactly what the person says in order to avoid a tragedy, but there are steps you can take to protect yourself and potentially save the other person’s life as well.
What to do when someone is threatening suicide as manipulation
•Express concern for the person, but maintain your boundaries. Threatening suicide is very manipulative, and the other person is expecting you to yield to his demands. By saying, “I can tell you are really upset right now, and I want to help, but I will not [fill in the blank],” you are showing that you care, but are also not giving in.
•Put the responsibility for living or dying back in the hands of the person who is threatening you. Say to the other person, “I don’t want you to have a relationship with me just because I am afraid of you dying and you think you can’t live without me. Our relationship should be based on mutual love and respect, not threats. I love you, but I can’t stop you from making this choice, even though I wish I could.”
•Don’t argue with the other person about whether he is serious about dying. Assume all threats are serious, and act accordingly. If you argue the point, he may make an attempt just to prove you wrong.
•Remember that contrary to what the other person is saying, you don’t have to prove anything. He may be saying, “If you loved me, you’d stop me from killing myself,” but the truth is, unless the core issues of what brought him to this place of wanting to end his life are addressed, giving in to his demands over and over again will not fix anything. You will still be angry, and the other person will still be vulnerable to wanting to self-harm again. The cycle will not break unless a trained professional steps in.
The above points are anything but easy to execute, so I strongly encourage anyone who is in a relationship with a chronically suicidal person get professional mental health services to learn how to handle such stress. It can feel very isolating, but you are not alone.
Feeling Manipulated by Suicide Threats?
Posted 06-09-2012 at 02:27 AM by cynical one
Tags
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feeling Manipulated by Suicide Threats?
~By Kate Thieda
“If you leave me, I will kill myself.”
“You don’t really care if I live or die. Why don’t I just kill myself–then everyone will be happy.”
“If you loved me, you would do what I tell you.”
If you are on the receiving end of threats like these, whether they come from your partner, your parent, your sibling, your child, or your friend, it can feel like a bucket of ice water has been poured over your head.
Mental illnesses come with the risk of suicide. Some diagnoses, such as borderline personality disorder, come with a 10% suicide completion rate, although there are often many attempts that are unsuccessful or are simply an exaggerated cry for help. Other disorders, including depression, eating disorders, and substance abuse, carry suicide risks as well.
If the person in your life truly wants to die and/or has a suicide plan and a means to carry out that plan, you need immediate assistance. Call 911 or your local emergency number for assistance. Alternatively, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Helpline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255).
Always take threats seriously and follow through with calling for help.
But what if you are constantly on the receiving end of threats like the ones above? Feelings of wanting to help soon turn to anger and resentment. Being constantly bombarded by comments from another person threatening to kill themselves is emotional blackmail. You never know what will come next, and as a result, feelings of anger, resentment, and fear all build up. It may feel like you have no choice but to do exactly what the person says in order to avoid a tragedy, but there are steps you can take to protect yourself and potentially save the other person’s life as well.
What to do when someone is threatening suicide as manipulation
•Express concern for the person, but maintain your boundaries. Threatening suicide is very manipulative, and the other person is expecting you to yield to his demands. By saying, “I can tell you are really upset right now, and I want to help, but I will not [fill in the blank],” you are showing that you care, but are also not giving in.
•Put the responsibility for living or dying back in the hands of the person who is threatening you. Say to the other person, “I don’t want you to have a relationship with me just because I am afraid of you dying and you think you can’t live without me. Our relationship should be based on mutual love and respect, not threats. I love you, but I can’t stop you from making this choice, even though I wish I could.”
•Don’t argue with the other person about whether he is serious about dying. Assume all threats are serious, and act accordingly. If you argue the point, he may make an attempt just to prove you wrong.
•Remember that contrary to what the other person is saying, you don’t have to prove anything. He may be saying, “If you loved me, you’d stop me from killing myself,” but the truth is, unless the core issues of what brought him to this place of wanting to end his life are addressed, giving in to his demands over and over again will not fix anything. You will still be angry, and the other person will still be vulnerable to wanting to self-harm again. The cycle will not break unless a trained professional steps in.
The above points are anything but easy to execute, so I strongly encourage anyone who is in a relationship with a chronically suicidal person get professional mental health services to learn how to handle such stress. It can feel very isolating, but you are not alone.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Agree with the other posters on taking it seriously and reporting it.
Just a thought, it sounds like maybe this is too black and white- either she us allowed home and part of the family else she will stay with some dangerous guy in isolation ( in case the suicide threat did not scare you enough).
Might there be a middle ground like rehab? If you take her to the ER and ask for a psych consult they'll likely hold her for up to 72 hours. If she is suicidal they can help, if she isn't, this is a good way to stop the terrorism.
Sorry you are dealing with this
Just a thought, it sounds like maybe this is too black and white- either she us allowed home and part of the family else she will stay with some dangerous guy in isolation ( in case the suicide threat did not scare you enough).
Might there be a middle ground like rehab? If you take her to the ER and ask for a psych consult they'll likely hold her for up to 72 hours. If she is suicidal they can help, if she isn't, this is a good way to stop the terrorism.
Sorry you are dealing with this
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hood River
Posts: 10
I don't know. As soon as I left her room I could hear her on the phone making arrangements from some boy to pick her up tomorrow so she could go to some party.
If she was threatening to hurt herself right now I would absolutely call someone or take her to get help. But it feels like she is trying to manipulate me into letting her stay by saying that IF she stays with this person she will hurt herself.
I don't know what to believe anymore. All I know is that her staying here is not an option. My husband and I have been around and around about this.
I did give her a list of agency's she could call for help. Mental health agency's, housing authority, Salvation Army. I just don't know that she'll use them.
If she was threatening to hurt herself right now I would absolutely call someone or take her to get help. But it feels like she is trying to manipulate me into letting her stay by saying that IF she stays with this person she will hurt herself.
I don't know what to believe anymore. All I know is that her staying here is not an option. My husband and I have been around and around about this.
I did give her a list of agency's she could call for help. Mental health agency's, housing authority, Salvation Army. I just don't know that she'll use them.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Mass
Posts: 149
julee - I have a 21 yo AS. I'm pretty new to this process because I was mostly in denial until it was to late. Several months ago my son had the option of not drinking or moving out. He chose to move out. It has been a crazy few months but he is now in recovery, treatment and AA, and currently sleeping here at night because he isn't sure he can handle not being around the support with the cravings. The only thing I have to say is that you can't want it more than she does. If she doesn't want to stop or get help then the truth is there is nothing you can do. If she is ready for help then hold her tight and work through it together.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear Julee39, my heart goes out to you, as well as every parent who reads this forum, I imagine.
I tend to agree with Posfriend, that maybe this is too black and white--I mean in terms of the possible solutions--not in the boundries, though. Searching for a middle ground, like he suggested, is my thought, also. She is still, biologically, a child. Her brain is not even finished maturing--so, she won't have the life skills of, say, a 25 or 26 yrs. old. She still requires some teaching, some guidence, some protection (if you can). She may be impulsive, self-centered, and feel somewhat immortal.
I don't know the whole background, I'll admit. By all means, get professional help as soon as possible--if you can at all swing it. A professional to give you advice--even if it is a one-time appointment can help. Rehab would benefit her---if she will go. Also, giving her a timeline to work out a place to live might help---but, if she is running with a bad crowd---that might backfire also. Sober living seems a better option, to me.
I don't have an exact "answer " for you--and each situation is unique. But, I can say to get outside help. The whole family is suffering in addition to your daughter. This is too big to handle alone!
Don't give up.With help, you can get through this.
sincerely, dandylion
I tend to agree with Posfriend, that maybe this is too black and white--I mean in terms of the possible solutions--not in the boundries, though. Searching for a middle ground, like he suggested, is my thought, also. She is still, biologically, a child. Her brain is not even finished maturing--so, she won't have the life skills of, say, a 25 or 26 yrs. old. She still requires some teaching, some guidence, some protection (if you can). She may be impulsive, self-centered, and feel somewhat immortal.
I don't know the whole background, I'll admit. By all means, get professional help as soon as possible--if you can at all swing it. A professional to give you advice--even if it is a one-time appointment can help. Rehab would benefit her---if she will go. Also, giving her a timeline to work out a place to live might help---but, if she is running with a bad crowd---that might backfire also. Sober living seems a better option, to me.
I don't have an exact "answer " for you--and each situation is unique. But, I can say to get outside help. The whole family is suffering in addition to your daughter. This is too big to handle alone!
Don't give up.With help, you can get through this.
sincerely, dandylion
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Julie39,
Agree with above posters. A Baker Act will involve a psych eval and potentially they may have a substance abuse program (most cities, counties do) that could evaluate her substance abuse and help formulate a recovery plan.
Residential, IOP or halfway house situation are all possibles. However, it sounds like she has zero interest and all would be a waste of time and energy. I hate to see a bed go to someone being coerced because there may be someone praying for it that is "ready to do whatever it takes".
What does happen when you lay out these scenarios and set YOUR boundaries and relapse recovery plans is it sets YOU FREE as she will be painted in a corner. If her comfy bedroom is not one of the doors available to her and she must show measurable progress in actually WORKING (active and completely dedicated) to some program or hit the highway... well... the proof will soon be in the pudding.
More will be revealed.
Other potential scenarios are the smartphone/breathalyzer technology that is now available (making you the sober police but a maybe) and intensive AA with a sponsor that does not fool around. 90 meetings in 90 days is an hour a day she can't drink very easily and a head full of recovery is a buzz killer.
Again... all good plans but a complete waste of time if her brain is spinning on how to manipulate you into being her crash pad so she can party on at your expense.
Usually we suggest "Hands off the addict" but when they are young and stupid ... well... its a call we cannot make anyway as we are just internet buds sharing what we have experienced.
Only you and your husband can make that final call... praying for you as you go through this time.
Agree with above posters. A Baker Act will involve a psych eval and potentially they may have a substance abuse program (most cities, counties do) that could evaluate her substance abuse and help formulate a recovery plan.
Residential, IOP or halfway house situation are all possibles. However, it sounds like she has zero interest and all would be a waste of time and energy. I hate to see a bed go to someone being coerced because there may be someone praying for it that is "ready to do whatever it takes".
What does happen when you lay out these scenarios and set YOUR boundaries and relapse recovery plans is it sets YOU FREE as she will be painted in a corner. If her comfy bedroom is not one of the doors available to her and she must show measurable progress in actually WORKING (active and completely dedicated) to some program or hit the highway... well... the proof will soon be in the pudding.
More will be revealed.
Other potential scenarios are the smartphone/breathalyzer technology that is now available (making you the sober police but a maybe) and intensive AA with a sponsor that does not fool around. 90 meetings in 90 days is an hour a day she can't drink very easily and a head full of recovery is a buzz killer.
Again... all good plans but a complete waste of time if her brain is spinning on how to manipulate you into being her crash pad so she can party on at your expense.
Usually we suggest "Hands off the addict" but when they are young and stupid ... well... its a call we cannot make anyway as we are just internet buds sharing what we have experienced.
Only you and your husband can make that final call... praying for you as you go through this time.
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Remember.....she has not asked for rehab....she doesn't want to stop drinking. She wants a warm, soft place to land after a hard night of partying. That's all she has asked for.
Offering rehab or sober living at this juncture would be a waste of money. This opinion is based on experience. The way I see it is that your job right now is to work on your own recovery and learn to manage your anxiety through this process. Learn and practice the art of acceptance. Please take care of your younger kids....they are watching and learning much right now. Don't make the mistake I made by pouring 95% of your energy into the kid that's screwing up the most. ugh.
I'm sorry I don't have more comfort to offer.
Offering rehab or sober living at this juncture would be a waste of money. This opinion is based on experience. The way I see it is that your job right now is to work on your own recovery and learn to manage your anxiety through this process. Learn and practice the art of acceptance. Please take care of your younger kids....they are watching and learning much right now. Don't make the mistake I made by pouring 95% of your energy into the kid that's screwing up the most. ugh.
I'm sorry I don't have more comfort to offer.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hood River
Posts: 10
Thank you again. Last night I told her that I could not let her stay here, but that if she wanted I would try to find a rehab for her first thing this week. She just smiled and said she had it all figured out. I looked on her facebook this morning (she is still asleep) and she posted that she is going to stay with a friend about an hour away in a couple of weeks. She also posted something about a fresh start. This sounds somewhat good?
As long as she is taking responsibility for herself and can find a safe place to go I will feel much better. Now, this friend is someone I know, her and my daughter had a long friendship that was on again off again. They are the same age but this girl has been living on her own somehow for several months now. I also know that she was very mothering to my daughter in the past and tried to counsel her when she was making bad decisions.
I don't think my daughter realizes what a problem she has, therefore I don't think she would ever agree to go to a rehab at this point.
It is like my husband said, she had other options for a place to live, she just wanted to paint the worst scenario for my benefit.
Thank you again for your comments and advice, it is so hard to know what to do. But she has burned her bridges here.
All she had to do was not drink, and she made the choice to move out when she drank. I'll keep you posted and hopefully she will end up living with her friend. Things seem to have a way of not working out for her last minute. I am not sure where she plans to go in the meantime.
As long as she is taking responsibility for herself and can find a safe place to go I will feel much better. Now, this friend is someone I know, her and my daughter had a long friendship that was on again off again. They are the same age but this girl has been living on her own somehow for several months now. I also know that she was very mothering to my daughter in the past and tried to counsel her when she was making bad decisions.
I don't think my daughter realizes what a problem she has, therefore I don't think she would ever agree to go to a rehab at this point.
It is like my husband said, she had other options for a place to live, she just wanted to paint the worst scenario for my benefit.
Thank you again for your comments and advice, it is so hard to know what to do. But she has burned her bridges here.
All she had to do was not drink, and she made the choice to move out when she drank. I'll keep you posted and hopefully she will end up living with her friend. Things seem to have a way of not working out for her last minute. I am not sure where she plans to go in the meantime.
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update
So, my daughter came down right after I posted that last post and her friend is coming today to pick her up. This girl is a room mate with someone in a big house and they agreed my daughter can live here. 
I guess the house is a walk away from a mall so my daughter is hoping she can get a job there. I am so relieved! I asked if her friend drank and my daughter said she really didn't know. I am hoping that maybe she will wake up and take this as the second chance she needs and makes good choices? Praying so!
I guess the house is a walk away from a mall so my daughter is hoping she can get a job there. I am so relieved! I asked if her friend drank and my daughter said she really didn't know. I am hoping that maybe she will wake up and take this as the second chance she needs and makes good choices? Praying so!
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We gave my AS two choices. 1) seek treatment....as in go away to an inpatient facility or 2) leave the family with no contact until he's chosen he'd like treatment.
He chose treatment. He kept saying he had to or we will kick him out. We kept reminding him we weren't kicking him out HE was making the choice to leave our family.
He's been gone now a month and comes home soon. We are going for a week of family treatment and I hope and pray when we bring him home things are VERY different. It has been a long road and has cost us an enormous amount of $$ but we will do anything to help our son.
Prayers to those also going through all the manipulating, struggles, etc....it's sure tough.
He chose treatment. He kept saying he had to or we will kick him out. We kept reminding him we weren't kicking him out HE was making the choice to leave our family.
He's been gone now a month and comes home soon. We are going for a week of family treatment and I hope and pray when we bring him home things are VERY different. It has been a long road and has cost us an enormous amount of $$ but we will do anything to help our son.
Prayers to those also going through all the manipulating, struggles, etc....it's sure tough.
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