FindingErica

Yesterday was Fitness day at the scout house, well my sons boyscout troop was discussing fitness. Healthy eating and avoiding substances like cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. A school social worker was there to have a discussion with the boys. It was kind of uncomfortable because I was sitting next to a friend who has known AH and I for the past 6 1/2 years and they know about the drugs because I told them before we moved off the street. So uncomfortable having to hold my head high during that. Obviously all these other suburban middle class boys have never had a parent touched by such a thing. I dont think any of them are even from a divorced home.

She asked the boys why they think people do drugs. They were giving typical 9/10 year old answers indicating they dont know too much about drugs. "They like the taste." "They want to act funny."

My son's turn, he says real serious, "They don't like their life and they want to escape from it."

I guess that says it all. Broke my heart to hear him say that so mattermof fact. I still have not had a drug talk with my kids because the professionals say it is damaging for kids to know negative things about a parent. And telling the kids that daddy is sick will make them think we abandoned him. I told them mom and dad disagree on adult decisons about how life should go and have adult problems. Now I am womdering how much he does know and understand.

What and how have people here tackled this issue with their kids?b

Faithlove

Heartwrenching! I'm so sorry!

Kids are smart and have "big ears." They know more than we think they do. When my AH is kicked out of our home, I explain to my pre-schooler that Daddy made bad choices. This is difficult for me because on the one hand, I don't want Daddy to get off scott-free and for me to be the bad guy for making Daddy leave. On the other hand, addiction is a disease and Daddy wasn't malicious. I think the bad choices route is the best I can do. Of course, just the other day my preschooler asked if Daddy was getting ready to make bad choices again (I wanted to say- No, honey, he's already made bad choices again). However, I also don't want my preschooler, or any of my kids, to think that if they make bad choices, I'll kick them out. My 12-yr-old knows my AH is an addict. He's not impressed. But, he's his step-dad.

This is tough. Parenting kids of an addict. But, don't be so sure none of those other kids haven't been affected by drugs or even live with an addict. Everytime I tell someone new about my AH, they have to pick their mouth up off the ground!

(((Hugs to you and your kids!!!)))

LoveMeNow

Interesting thread to read!!

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-children.html

Faithlove

Thank you, LMN, for that link. I'm about to be in tears but I needed to read it!

story74

Yes, they need the truth and will respect you for it. It is all in how you convey it. For example (this is just an example) instead of saying "daddy is a loser" you might say, "daddy has made a bad choice" the, you can go further and discuss how the bad choice has affected so many. You could talk about making mistakes and forgiveness. You could relate it to a bible story or even a childrens story or myth or fable. See it as a learning experience...what can you learn from this. Educate them about addiction and how powerless you are...he is sick and you didn't abandon him. He made choices. Discuss what a healthy person does in life. What come from right choices. Talk about loyalty, kindness, the meaning of marriage. Teach them who to be...guide them to the water. Also, discuss and teach them about their chances of becoming an addict. Open up the communication lines as much as you can. Therapy for all.

My son is 4. And I am slowly divuldging information as he is ready. When I do give him a simple sentence to explain, I make sure it is honest. It is very hard.

My son LOVES the lorax. We always talk about his bad choice in cutting down the trees, and the effect it had. When we discuss this, I think of how this is really setting my son up with an understanding of what a bad choice means. Stories are wonderful for children to learn from.

Best wishes!

LoveMeNow

I am sorry Faithlove, it brought me to tears as well. Please know it was not to shame you or anyone. I was very codependent and I fear what I have taught my kids and in what ways I have I have failed them.

mfox

My son was 8 when he asked me why his dad didn't come around anymore. It kind of hit me out of the blue because I hadn't talked to the kids about it. A month or so earlier I had given their dad an option - be a dad, or be a druggie, but not both. Well, he chose the drugs.

The way I explained it was that their dad loved them the best way he knew how. That one day maybe things would be different, but maybe not. I explained that he was making bad choices - dangerous choices that could put both of my kids in danger and that it wasn't safe for them to be with him at that point. I told them how much I loved them and it was my job to keep them safe - that it would kill me if anything bad happened to them. He seemed to understand that.

A few months later their dad committed suicide. I'm glad I didn't berate their dad to them because it would have reflected badly on me. They still miss him and love him very much. So do I.

My kids are now 17 and 15. We have a very open relationship and have talked about the effects of drugs. Their dad was an amazing person - smart, funny, charming, incredibly talented - but the drugs overshadowed all of that. They know that their dad had substance abuse issues (drugs & alcohol) combined with a family history of depression and suicide (his father and grandfather also committed suicide as well as several other family members). I still don't berate their dad - but they are aware of what circumstances led to his death. However, I had to gauge when it was appropriate to give them certain pieces of information.

Neither of them have even thought about doing any sort of drugs at this point (thank God), and they - as far as I know - don't drink. They are amazing kids and I am so lucky to have them. But I honestly feel that they need to know the truth. They trust you to tell them the truth. Granted, you don't need to give too many details to them and it needs to be age-appropriate. But you don't need to berate their other parent either. You have to accept how much they love BOTH of you - regardless of other issues.

Ann

I think it is important to tell kids the truth, in a way they can understand. And equally important to encourage them to ask questions any time they have any.

I had some trauma in my childhood that I carried with me for years and years, all because nobody wanted to talk about it. They thought I was too young, that I would forget...they were wrong.

I can only imagine how hard this is for you, and your son sounds very wise, so I just pray that along the way you and he can talk about this openly, without fear on either side.

Hugs

Jody675

yeah i agree kids need to know the truth in a way that they can understand. and just as importantly, as Ann has said, they need to know that you are open to communicate about all topics in a matter of fact manner, which is appropriate for them to understand.

kids know and observe more than we want to believe. but our silence just tells them that its not something that we can talk about. what message are we sending then?

Confetti

It is tough. I have three little ones who witnessed me 'lose it' on their father. For that I am so ashamed. I have talked to them in depth about how wrong my actions were, but it doesn't change the fact that dad has made some bad choices and cannot return to our home. He talks to them intermittently and usually tells them about how he really wants to come home but I won't let him, he doesn't have a girlfriend, he doesn't know what the problem is...or something along those lines. The therapist said that instead of calling him a liar, that I should just say that I don't believe him. That I let the children see it for themselves and keep communication open. I don't say a whole lot although I know their little eyes and ears have heard and seen so much. Even at the grocery store where they sell clamato juice that their father would drink with beer, they say "hey, it's red booze juice, we should pick it up for dad, he drinks so much of it!". They say it completely out of Wanting to do something good for him to make him happy, but that is how skewed their world is. I try to make it a very openly conversational home, but I worry about this as they get older, if it will get substantially more difficult.

For now. I stick to age appropriate answers and not throwing too much on them since they are so young (1,4,7).

bluebelle

I think it is best to be honest with the kids--within reason of their age. I grew up with addicted parents. My grandparents were always in denial. My family was really good at pretending nothing was happening. I found that allow the denial was hard for me to handle. I would see one thing, but my family would say something else was happening. I found that this denial made handling the addicted parents even harder for me. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me and my feelings.

I doubt that the other kids in the troop were all unaffected by addiction. Families may look good from the outside, but who knows what is happening on the inside. Your situation may be more open to everyone, which may end up being better for the kids. At least they aren't surrounded by a sea of denial.

FindingErica

Thank you everyone! My dad was honest with my sister and I about our mother's schizophrenia; but her family was very tight lipped. If my dad and step mother hadn't been so frank, my grandmother would have been successful as she blamed my sister and I.

I think I need to take a page from my Dad's parenting play book on this matter. I think it will be a hard conversation.

supportforme

I have 2 boys 13 & 7 and I hid their dad's addiction for years by covering for him. Unfortunately, their world came crashing down in May and the officers gave me 10 minutes to talk to my boys before they searched our home. Over the years I continued to educate myself on how to talk to children about drugs (found the most informative on Cynical's blog), I also continued to talk to my therapist. So, I sat my boys down and said You know your dad loves you very much but I need to tell you that your dad has a disease. Your dad is trapped by a horrible disease that causes him to make bad decisions and his disease has caused him to break the law. Your dad's disease is called addiction I'm sorry you didn't do anything to cause this disease, there's nothing you can do to control it or fix it - Only your dad can if he gets help. My 7 year old said - you mean like mind control. I said kind of - he said OK I understand mind control b/c plankton (spongebob - character) is always trying to do mind control. Later that evening I discussed the concepts that I had viewed of a 3 part series from the Betty Ford Clinic. I reiterated that dad is not bad - he is trapped and all we can do is pray that he finds the strength to get the help he needs. I continued to tell them how important it is for us to keep ourselves happy. I contacted both of their counselors at school and they both talked to the boys. Both boys told me that their counselors told them the same. Their pediatrician also talked to them. I will tell you that my 13 year old actually still says - he trusts his dad b/c dad never lied to him and he doesn't trust me b/c I lied and didn't tell him the truth. I continue to work everyday to regain my son's trust. I continue to tell them even though they can't understand my actions, they need to know that I will do everything in my power to keep them safe and healthy. I know this is hard. I don't know if I ever would have found the strength if I wasn't shocked into having to do so. I also know that part of the reason I didn't say anything is b/c I didn't think they would believe me. You'll find your answers - I reached a point that I needed to tell my boys to protect them. I think that my 13 year old was even nastier to me before he knew b/c he sensed something was up and I was keeping something from him. STay strong - I know exactly how you feel. I have daily battles and struggles but I do believe that me and my boys have a better chance of healing and growing b/c they know.

washbe2

Kids are tuned in. I always tried to "protect" my kids from any problems with their dad. Turns out hey knew even more than I. Guess they were trying to protect me or possibly their dad. It's that pink elephant thing again.

SSHope

A child's level of understanding can be astounding. Maybe your son's comment will ring true in someone's ears that needs to hear it at that moment. As we all know, you can never know what is going on in the privacy of someone's home.

When I first found out about my brother's addiction and had to tell my daughter she was devastated. She said, "Mom, in school we learn that drug addiction is really bad. But it is even worse than they tell you." The truth of her words broke my heart. I hope that this experience will help her make responsible choices if/when she is faced with drugs and alcohol later in life.

FindingErica

Well it appears that I have a good opportunity to address the issue of "daddy's disease" with the kids. AH sent me an email and he is backing out of coming for his sons birthday. He just came out separately twice for both of the girls birthdays last month. I dont know if it is because he relapsed or if it is because he didnt get an opportunity to manipulate me last time. He sent me this lie yesterday;

I'm not flying up any more until I get a new credit card which doesn't seem anytime soon. Thanks mainly to you closing the 2 I had in my name which you had no right doing! So tell my son why his dad is not picking him up. No credit card = no car rental. Thanks!

It doesnt matter how many times I tell him I did not close the second card because it was not in my name, he just ignores that and keeps blaming. I also called a car rental company, Enterprise, and asked if they take debit Visas, they said yes. I see AH has also left this an open ended excuse that he can continue to use for as long as he likes. Truth is he cant get a credit card right now.

I think AH has relapsed and if that is the case, I thank him for keeping it away from here. But my son is the most sensitive of my three, an observant tenderhearted guy. He is going to feel this rejection keenly, especially in light of all his dad did for his sisters.

LoveMeNow

awww, so sorry FE.

I have to wonder if he will still come and this just an attempt to "play" you like a puppet!!

FindingErica

I no longer maintain any expectations. Every illusion I held true about him he has managed to shatter. I thought he was a loving, faithful family man and dedicated father. He is really an abusive, cheating addict and abandoning dad. Maybe the first was true about him at one time but not anymore, less and less over the years.

LoveMeNow

You forgot Narcissistic.

Vale

.....pretty powerful stuff!

My first round with this opponent,I was only 12. And yes,
a kid DOES feel like it's 'their fault'. Carried that crap around with me for 40 years.
In that 40 years I aquired enough success (and armor) to make short work of that SOB
if I ever crossed paths with it again.

What's the phrase......"looking for a fight"? Well,I found one--in the form of an
distant aquaintance whose life got nuked by oxy/percs.Did I really care about her life?
Probably not.But I was gonna take that ghastly monster down this time
(and p*ss on it's grave).

I failed,of course. But did I really?

I got something out of it that was even better.That it WASN'T my fault---
(and never was).That piece of information,and the peace it brought---was a bargain
at 10 times the cost.

So would I trade/bypass that ghastly early life experience? The uncomfortable answer is no.
My pain and the mountain I had to climb to overcome it are part of me.A whole lot of people
enjoy a whole lot of good things because of what that effort has allowed me to provide.
To turn a cesspool of misery into an oasis of joy---THAT is a victory worth enjoying.

And what of my mentor? What is to become of her life? That is her business.
What I first thought of as 'help'---meeting her on a hundred street corners at a
hundred a pop----was really nothing more than (unwittingly) paying her disrespect,
saying (in effect) "you are not strong enough to make it without help".Maybe she is,
maybe she isn't----that's between her and her maker.

Breaking away (with SR's help,of course) was saying something else:
"Either I will honor your victory,or I will honor and remember how valiantly you fought this
battle of your life--and you will hold a place of honor in my memory,forever".

She was not good or evil,she was a housewife who took a walk on the wild side.
I have no doubt that she would turn back the clock to that fateful moment of decision
if she could----but that is not an option for any of us mortals.

But I will always wish her well,and thank her for the life lessons that she never
knew she was teaching.......