fluffyflea

Is Narcissism an extreme of self-centeredness?

Florence

Narcissism is a clinical classification for a personality disorder on par with Sociopathy. It's extremely serious. Try googling it for additional information.

dandylion

Dear Earthworm, yes, self-centerdness is a large feature of narcissism. As I understand it, the basic root of narcissism (the personality disorder) is the inability to understand how one's actions affect others---the lack of ability to have empathy for others.

We are all a bit narcissistic at times, and it is normal in the developing child and adolescent.

An excellent book that I am just now reading is: "The World of OZ and other Narcissists--coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family" by Eleanor D. Payson, M.S.W. The best I have read on the subject. You can get it on Amazon.com.

dandylion

fluffyflea

Thanx Dandylion.

Learn2Live

"Narcissism" is a character trait. It is extreme selfishness. We are all narcissistic to a degree. Think of a toddler and work your way up in age from there. Teenagers are known to be quite narcissistic. IME, alcoholics and addicts are rather narcissistic. Then there is Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is a clinical diagnosis.

fluffyflea

Thanx Learn2Live. I guess narcissism renders one incapable of seeing the harm their actions do to others whereas when one is self-centered there is still the possibility of seeing the harm.

Learn2Live

A "self-centered" person IS narcissistic. The question is the degree of narcissism. I think the more narcissistic a person is, the less they care how much their behavior hurts other people. An XBF of mine from long ago kept doing the same hurtful things over and over and kept apologizing for it over and over. And I kept hurtin and crying each time, waiting for something to change. Wishing he would just SEE and UNDERSTAND how much it hurt me. Holding on for dear life. He knew how much it hurt me, he just didn't care. I can almost say the same for the other two A&A XBFs I've had but I never gave them the chance to actually see how hurt I was; I went No Contact immediately. Even if I had, though, I doubt they would have seen OR cared. They are so self-absorbed when they are doing that hurtful stuff that I doubt they see anything but what they are focused on.

fluffyflea

Then why do they cry and say how guilty they feel for what they have done?

And then turn right around and do it again?

Learn2Live

IMO, it's because they are con-artists. They cry their crocodile tears, talk about guilt they don't feel, promise never to do it again, and then rush out the next day and do it all over again.

You should Google George Simon, PhD and read up on his expert advice about dealing with character disordered folks. I started with his list of manipulation tactics, then moved onto his book, "In Sheep's Clothing," and also read his book, "Character Disturbance." It REALLY put AXBF's behavior into perspective! Dr. Simon also has produced some short videos you can see on YouTube that explain the basics behind his work. He's my hero. Honestly.

regeneration

Learn2Live, I love George Simon. He had a whole series of articles on this website here:

The Secrets of Personal Empowerment

on character disorders. I went out with some people who seemed pretty disturbed and those articles and his book helped me detach.

Learn2Live

Yes! The one Secret I have been using every day is focusing on where I have Power: The Power to Act. It's like the next step after the Serenity Prayer for me.

And yes, my plan is to keep reading the descriptions of Manipulation Tactics so I can learn how to better identify them, just as Dr. Simon recommends.

Nice to find someone who also is a Dr. Simon follower. Thanks regeneration

fluffyflea

Yes the power to act. Instead of freezing like a little kid, ACT!

I was reading something recently about FREEZING when caught in a situation with an abusive person. ACOA,s (just speaking for myself) just freeze. I see it in me so much now.

fluffyflea

So the Manipulations Tactics are in Dr.Simons book?

Learn2Live

Yes. But you can get them easily on the web. There is also a copy of his first book floating around on the internet. You can also read part of it on Amazon.

Learn2Live

I also posted them here on SR a few weeks ago. I was so relieved when I read them because I could see what AXBF had been doing!

fluffyflea

UGH! I was just reading about Covert Aggression, that's what I/m dealing with.

Funny when we pray for the truth how it comes to us in different forms.

fluffyflea

And the point of this covert aggression=CONTROL!!!!

fluffyflea

Learn2Live,

Where is your post?

Learn2Live

Yes, control. I never realized the alcoholic is also trying to control until someone who is an alcoholic posted about it here on F&F some months back. Sounds weird but I truly had no concept before then that the alcoholic did this also; I thought it was just me. Then, coincidentally?? I read Dr. Simon's info on covert aggression and it all began to make sense! No doubt in my mind, AXBF if a covert aggressive and used his tactics on me to get what he wanted, nevermind ANYTHING I said I wanted or preferred. And I played the role of Doormat perfectly! And I also fell into the role of Codependent very well too! When will I ever learn?!?!?

Here's where I posted the tactics:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ipulation.html

Learn2Live

I tell ya though, once I read Dr Simon's books, especially the second one, I felt SMART! I felt like this black veil had been lifted and I could finally see what had happened to me!! I am so grateful for Dr Simon and all the work he has done with these people.