Morose thread that you may want to avoid
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Morose thread that you may want to avoid
I know this is a question for a lawyer, but since it's something I've been thinking a lot about in the past couple of days, I wanted to ask you guys if anyone else has thought about and dealt with this?
The kids I have at home are still in their early teens. They still need parents. If I died within the next couple of years, they would be thoroughly f****d. Because their father, who can't even take care of himself, is sharing custody with me, that's who they'd be stuck with full time. The go to his house, it's fend-for-yourself. He doesn't feed them. Doesn't tell them to go to bed. Takes them with him to parties during the schoolweek so they can't stay awake in school. Etc. Going back to living with him would ruin their lives.
So... has anyone else dealt with this scenario? Is there anything I can do, short of fighting him for full legal and physical custody? Get him to give up his parental rights? Cut his brake lines? Take them and run away to the Dominican Republic? Join the Witness Protection Program? Anything? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
I know it's an ugly, ugly question to ask, and a frightening scenario. But it's one I feel I need to consider.
The kids I have at home are still in their early teens. They still need parents. If I died within the next couple of years, they would be thoroughly f****d. Because their father, who can't even take care of himself, is sharing custody with me, that's who they'd be stuck with full time. The go to his house, it's fend-for-yourself. He doesn't feed them. Doesn't tell them to go to bed. Takes them with him to parties during the schoolweek so they can't stay awake in school. Etc. Going back to living with him would ruin their lives.
So... has anyone else dealt with this scenario? Is there anything I can do, short of fighting him for full legal and physical custody? Get him to give up his parental rights? Cut his brake lines? Take them and run away to the Dominican Republic? Join the Witness Protection Program? Anything? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
I know it's an ugly, ugly question to ask, and a frightening scenario. But it's one I feel I need to consider.
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Lilamy - this is someting thats on my mind a lot lately. We don't have joint custody ( not divorced yet ) and he rarely spends time with them...so it scares the bejaysus outta me to think they would be stuck with him should I die in the morning.
Am seriously thinking about guardianship i.e my sister in law to be responsible for them if that happened.
Not sure about the legality side of things from your propective tho
Am seriously thinking about guardianship i.e my sister in law to be responsible for them if that happened.
Not sure about the legality side of things from your propective tho
My emotional baggage
Join Date: Oct 2011
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lillamy,
I have worried about this a lot. Do you have joint custody now? I was thinking of having a will drawn up to put my mom or his sister as the other legal guardian. I am hoping to talk to my attorney about this once we get a little farther in the divorce.
Oh and the leaving the country or cutting breaklines has been apart of my mental daydreaming for months.....heehee! He lives on acreage so mine included having him go missing with the help of the backhoe! All a joke of course!
Seriously though, I do worry about this and I realize I am actually more cautious with myself since the seperation. I use this as a mental helper to exercise and eat better also. If come to any conclusions let us know.
4MyBoys
I have worried about this a lot. Do you have joint custody now? I was thinking of having a will drawn up to put my mom or his sister as the other legal guardian. I am hoping to talk to my attorney about this once we get a little farther in the divorce.
Oh and the leaving the country or cutting breaklines has been apart of my mental daydreaming for months.....heehee! He lives on acreage so mine included having him go missing with the help of the backhoe! All a joke of course!
Seriously though, I do worry about this and I realize I am actually more cautious with myself since the seperation. I use this as a mental helper to exercise and eat better also. If come to any conclusions let us know.
4MyBoys
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Thank you SO much for responding. I almost didn't post this because it felt so grim.
Maybe I'll give my attorney a call and ask him if he can give me a 15 minute pro-bono consult.
Maybe I'll give my attorney a call and ask him if he can give me a 15 minute pro-bono consult.
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Cut his brake lines. I like that one! You made me laugh.
Ok, for all readers...we are joking of course.
I believe teenagers have the right to speak to a court, and are listened to. Short of your mother, sister, etc., fighting for custody, he may give them up willingly should they talk to the court and ask to live somewhere else, or, the court may order it, especially if abuses/neglects are documented and the children support the claims.
Hopefully you will be around for a long long time yet. But you're right to consider that crazy smart bus-driver accident. Therefore, I would ask the best relative what they would feel about this possibility, and would they be willing. Nothing wrong with a "what if" conversation to find out possibilities.
This probably, only if your children would be unhappy living with your ex and would prefer living with said relative.
Could be a custody battle for said relative, but I bet dad would give up custody if the children themselves were adamant that they live somewhere else. I KNOW the courts do listen to teenagers as they are almost at the point of making their own decisions anyway. I know of cases in which teenagers feelings were taken into consideration by the courts.
Ok, for all readers...we are joking of course.
I believe teenagers have the right to speak to a court, and are listened to. Short of your mother, sister, etc., fighting for custody, he may give them up willingly should they talk to the court and ask to live somewhere else, or, the court may order it, especially if abuses/neglects are documented and the children support the claims.
Hopefully you will be around for a long long time yet. But you're right to consider that crazy smart bus-driver accident. Therefore, I would ask the best relative what they would feel about this possibility, and would they be willing. Nothing wrong with a "what if" conversation to find out possibilities.
This probably, only if your children would be unhappy living with your ex and would prefer living with said relative.
Could be a custody battle for said relative, but I bet dad would give up custody if the children themselves were adamant that they live somewhere else. I KNOW the courts do listen to teenagers as they are almost at the point of making their own decisions anyway. I know of cases in which teenagers feelings were taken into consideration by the courts.
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It's scary and sad to think about - and from what my attorney has advised me... there's not a darn thing I can do about it. If I die, my XAH as the sole surviving parent gets full custody. I can put in my will that I want my folks/family to have visitation rights but if XAH doesn't want to play along... they (my folks) would have to petition family court to have those rights awarded. They can not get full custody unless and until family court/CPS deems XAH an unfit parent (basically the same situation I am in).
I'm sorry that I don't have any better news. That's the unfortunate reality of co-parenting with a "functioning" alcoholic.
I'm sorry that I don't have any better news. That's the unfortunate reality of co-parenting with a "functioning" alcoholic.
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Does one parent get full custody if the other one dies? – 30 Legal Answers as of August 25, 2011 - LawQA.com
Interesting (and sometimes conflicting) responses from lawyers in different states.
Given that CPS in my state refused to declare as unfit a mother who beat her children so badly that two of them will be in a nursing home for life, I guess I'd better stay healthy.
Interesting (and sometimes conflicting) responses from lawyers in different states.
Given that CPS in my state refused to declare as unfit a mother who beat her children so badly that two of them will be in a nursing home for life, I guess I'd better stay healthy.
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Lillamy, no experience but a thought.
Have you considered saying something to him like, you know if I die you'll have the kids full time. He may show some interest in coming up with some sort of solution because I doubt he wants to have the kids around full time.
Don't know if this helps or not.
Your friend,
Have you considered saying something to him like, you know if I die you'll have the kids full time. He may show some interest in coming up with some sort of solution because I doubt he wants to have the kids around full time.
Don't know if this helps or not.
Your friend,
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I've not consulted an attorney but I was always under the impression that if I died, he got them as long as he has his parental rights.
I have considered bartering those away. He'd probably give up parental rights if I started getting very serious about child support because then he'd be off the hook for what he's behind and of course never pay again. I could establish my desire for a legal guardian in my will. He'd still have a fighting chance if he went to court about it. Judges ultimately decide guardianship status. He'll never have that kind of money so probably safe there. I've toyed with this idea but not ready to do it.
$$ is an issue. I have a life insurance policy now (my kids are still really young) and the beneficiary is not the kids and not my ex. My goal for 2013 is to establish a will and again, any assets (like house etc.) will not go to my kids or my ex. If the kids get it - the ex will fight for them - and him and a bunch of money would be a disaster.
So it will all go to a relative of mine I trust and I'll write up separate things for how I want her to handle the money and hope for the best in the event of such a tragedy. She's already agreed to that. I have not asked her about guardianship. She's the only person I know that I'd want to have them but that is asking a lot. I have four kids. They have none so to say that would be a life style upheaval would be the understatement of the century. Not sure she'd want the job. I must not die - not for the next 15 years at least.
I have considered bartering those away. He'd probably give up parental rights if I started getting very serious about child support because then he'd be off the hook for what he's behind and of course never pay again. I could establish my desire for a legal guardian in my will. He'd still have a fighting chance if he went to court about it. Judges ultimately decide guardianship status. He'll never have that kind of money so probably safe there. I've toyed with this idea but not ready to do it.
$$ is an issue. I have a life insurance policy now (my kids are still really young) and the beneficiary is not the kids and not my ex. My goal for 2013 is to establish a will and again, any assets (like house etc.) will not go to my kids or my ex. If the kids get it - the ex will fight for them - and him and a bunch of money would be a disaster.
So it will all go to a relative of mine I trust and I'll write up separate things for how I want her to handle the money and hope for the best in the event of such a tragedy. She's already agreed to that. I have not asked her about guardianship. She's the only person I know that I'd want to have them but that is asking a lot. I have four kids. They have none so to say that would be a life style upheaval would be the understatement of the century. Not sure she'd want the job. I must not die - not for the next 15 years at least.
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A woman I worked with recently died before she and her husband (who is an active alcoholic) divorced. it was a quick ugly fast-moving cancer. Their son was 16 at the time and could choose who he wanted to live with even though the father has legal custody. Her son wanted to live with his mother's sister and family and they are happy to have him.
His father can still ruin his life because by not relinquishing custody, he has to sign for dental work, SS benefits the child could be getting to help pay for his care, and if it's his whim, he makes them all wait and suffer just out of selfish spite. (this man wanted the keys to the house before the funeral was over, he was so concerned about his *rights*)
The house went to the father (who is selling it cheap and the kid won't see a dime, it's now trashed and in a disgusting state).
I would suggest your will advocate all of your property to a trust for the children set in such a way that he can never get his grabby paws on it.
His father can still ruin his life because by not relinquishing custody, he has to sign for dental work, SS benefits the child could be getting to help pay for his care, and if it's his whim, he makes them all wait and suffer just out of selfish spite. (this man wanted the keys to the house before the funeral was over, he was so concerned about his *rights*)
The house went to the father (who is selling it cheap and the kid won't see a dime, it's now trashed and in a disgusting state).
I would suggest your will advocate all of your property to a trust for the children set in such a way that he can never get his grabby paws on it.
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Have you considered saying something to him like, you know if I die you'll have the kids full time. He may show some interest in coming up with some sort of solution because I doubt he wants to have the kids around full time.
None of it would have a single thing to do with the well-being of the kids. Ever. It would be about revenge. And that is sort of why I think about this. Because I know he wouldn't concede an inch. He'd deny my family to even see the kids.
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Trusts are a good idea. Maybe I'll look into that. I'm not very smart with $$ - because I've never had it 
I need a way that they can use the money while still children to get needs met but that their dad has no access/control over it.
I need a way that they can use the money while still children to get needs met but that their dad has no access/control over it.
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I would think that if you are legally divorced, you can advocate whoever YOU want to have control over the assets/estate in trust for the children until whatever age YOU determine (I watch a lot of crime-tv, can you tell)?
In my case my brother is the executor over my ahem *vast* estate and anything my daughter wants has to go through him. (I've got to change that because my X died 2 years ago and my daughter is now 31). I trust my brother ultimately and we are co-owners of our parents estate...(that's just a term, we are not wealthy)
In my case my brother is the executor over my ahem *vast* estate and anything my daughter wants has to go through him. (I've got to change that because my X died 2 years ago and my daughter is now 31). I trust my brother ultimately and we are co-owners of our parents estate...(that's just a term, we are not wealthy)
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Originally Posted by Fandy 
I would think that if you are legally divorced, you can advocate whoever YOU want to have control over the assets/estate in trust for the children until whatever age YOU determine (I watch a lot of crime-tv, can you tell)?
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Do the children like seeing their father lillamy?
I don't like to judge but he doesn't sound as if he should be "taking care of them" now....
I had heard that in the USA children can refuse to go - not sure but I found this:
A child in the United States is able to testify in court at the age of 13 (or there about) and can choose not to see a parent. This will be taken into account when the judge makes a decision but children over the age of 13 are listened to in court and their thoughts are taken as a high consideration. This means that if a child wants to refuse visitation this will usually happen.
Wish you all the best.
I don't like to judge but he doesn't sound as if he should be "taking care of them" now....
I had heard that in the USA children can refuse to go - not sure but I found this:
A child in the United States is able to testify in court at the age of 13 (or there about) and can choose not to see a parent. This will be taken into account when the judge makes a decision but children over the age of 13 are listened to in court and their thoughts are taken as a high consideration. This means that if a child wants to refuse visitation this will usually happen.
Wish you all the best.
My emotional baggage
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Vail, I just asked about this point because my 9 year old does not want to go to his Dad's anymore. I was told that at no age does the child get to decide. They can voice their opinion at anytime and the judge can take it under advisement but ultimately the judge decides. I always thought there was a magic number that the kids got to decide...
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4MyBoys, that must be very tough for you.
I am in the UK so am not so savvy on the USA rules but I have heard that 13 was a key age for children to be able to make up their own mind about not seeing a father/mother.
One of my friends in Europe has a daughter and as soon as she turned 13 refused point blank to go to her fathers and he wasn't even an alcoholic, she just didn't like going as he had a new gf. It is very complicated and of course the child has to come first.
I am in the UK so am not so savvy on the USA rules but I have heard that 13 was a key age for children to be able to make up their own mind about not seeing a father/mother.
One of my friends in Europe has a daughter and as soon as she turned 13 refused point blank to go to her fathers and he wasn't even an alcoholic, she just didn't like going as he had a new gf. It is very complicated and of course the child has to come first.
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hahahahahaha...I know this feeling well....you are NOT ALONE.....and as for the jokes on cutting the brake lines..there is actually a song you should find that I've heard and see the music video for once in awhile that fits right in called "pray for you"....all in good fun though.
Depending on the state you are in depends on your rights. Unfortunitly the general consenses in most states as I have family in the law business, joint custody means you both have to agree to it and that's the hard part as I will assume he will not agree to someone else having them. Then again if he doesn't seem to care to be that involved anymore and you might be able to point some of those things out to him, you might have a shot....I wish you the best of luck!!!
Depending on the state you are in depends on your rights. Unfortunitly the general consenses in most states as I have family in the law business, joint custody means you both have to agree to it and that's the hard part as I will assume he will not agree to someone else having them. Then again if he doesn't seem to care to be that involved anymore and you might be able to point some of those things out to him, you might have a shot....I wish you the best of luck!!!
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Hi Lilamy, I'm in California and of course things vary from state to state, but here is what my attorney told me. I'm in a similar situation as you since my kids are mainly teens (18, 17, 14 and 11). I have primary custody and we have 70/30 physical custody. If I die, full custody will go to my AH. Since he's reasonably functional (at this point) and a fairly loving, decent dad, this would not be a disaster, but I would worry about the emotional welfare of the kids. So here is what I'm setting up so that they are not 100% "stuck" with dad:
During the divorce process I'm putting my assets in trust, with the four kids named as sole beneficiaries and a personal friend who knows them well as executor of my estate. If I die, it is possible for any kids who are under 18 and at least 14 to petition to become an "emancipated minor." This would give them some control over where they live and their financial affairs, although the trust would administer funds in the way I've directed until they are 30.
My attorney also encouraged me to take out a fairly sizable insurance policy ($500k to $1m) in the event of my death, and to also make the children beneficiaries of that. This would give them funds to live on (administered by the trust executor) as emancipated minors if they so desire. I have also designated people with whom they could live if I should die and they elect to become emancipated.
I'm still working out a gameplan in case I do not die but rather become incapacitated. I have a directive for that, but you never know. I'd hate to see the kids in limbo and my assets unavailable while I lay in a vegetative state.
I hate thinking about all this but it's well worth doing to plan for all the "what ifs" and to know your kids would have some avenues besides going to live with dad. This is well worth an hour of your attorney's time and I strongly encourage you to sit down and get a plan in place for your own situation.
PS, Cutting the brake lines...hmmm....hadn't considered that one!
During the divorce process I'm putting my assets in trust, with the four kids named as sole beneficiaries and a personal friend who knows them well as executor of my estate. If I die, it is possible for any kids who are under 18 and at least 14 to petition to become an "emancipated minor." This would give them some control over where they live and their financial affairs, although the trust would administer funds in the way I've directed until they are 30.
My attorney also encouraged me to take out a fairly sizable insurance policy ($500k to $1m) in the event of my death, and to also make the children beneficiaries of that. This would give them funds to live on (administered by the trust executor) as emancipated minors if they so desire. I have also designated people with whom they could live if I should die and they elect to become emancipated.
I'm still working out a gameplan in case I do not die but rather become incapacitated. I have a directive for that, but you never know. I'd hate to see the kids in limbo and my assets unavailable while I lay in a vegetative state.
I hate thinking about all this but it's well worth doing to plan for all the "what ifs" and to know your kids would have some avenues besides going to live with dad. This is well worth an hour of your attorney's time and I strongly encourage you to sit down and get a plan in place for your own situation.
PS, Cutting the brake lines...hmmm....hadn't considered that one!
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Originally Posted by 4MyBoys
Vail, I just asked about this point because my 9 year old does not want to go to his Dad's anymore. I was told that at no age does the child get to decide. They can voice their opinion at anytime and the judge can take it under advisement but ultimately the judge decides. I always thought there was a magic number that the kids got to decide...
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