FindingErica

So AH is 90 days clean. He has jumped into NA and AA feet first. Now he is also doing this 5 part seminar called Road map or something like that which is only based in Dallas where he is.

He called last week and I picked up, we have been friendly and have been working out the divorce amicably. Even though when he came out there were definate lows. So he called the other night to talk to the kids, I pick up and next thing I know we are enmeshed in a conversant where he is sobbing and begging me to give him another chance, put the divorce on hold. He has made all these changes, is letting go of past hurts and traumas, leaning on God. For all intents and purposes he is on the right track and will likely be a better human if he continues on his current path.

Part of me wonders why I am not giving him a second chance when he is so clearly making the changes I had hoped for over the past few years. It makes no sense externally; he is clean and working on his issues, he has a great job with longevity and a very short commute, he lives in a big comfy family home in a family friendly neighborhood with a pool in the back yard and a top notch school district. We would be back on track, doing the move i had worked so hard for. I've been married to him for 18.5 years, why do I feel like stone, a hard heart, cement feet.

So the kids call him today and then after an hour hand me the phone. Why do I talk to him. he wants to fly me and the kids out for the first weekend in oct, but I had swapped weekends with a coworker so can't do that anyway. He wants me to go to this seminar he has been attending, he has a group of people praying that I will go. He says I would go to part 1 and him part 3. I said so who would be watching our children who would then have flown out there to not spend time with mom or dad. I said shouldn't the priority be getting on top of the bills you let go for 3 months during unemployment. He said peace of mind is more important then the bills. He is prioritizing me and the marriage over money. This is how he is, he gets really gung ho over something, dives in with both feet. He wants to be a volunteer for this seminar thing.

I feel like I am making good strides. I am seeing a therapist, joining a women's support group, meeting with the female pastor, going to church again. But am I depriving my kids unnecessarily of an intact family. Am I the selfish bee-hatch now?? This was so much easier when he was high and threatening me for money and what not. Do things really change this quickly? I suddenly feel empty and depressed. I was doing well, then the weekend knocked me down, I was getting up again and his phone call kicked me back again, then this call today. I'm feeling myself shrivel again. Last week while he was crying and making promises, he mentioned that if I divorce him and remarry, I will be an adulterer in Gods eyes. Then after I got off the phone, he emails me, "when do you want me to move back?". Did he not understand I'm not wanting to get back together. Tonight he said, " I love you" before he hung up. Too familiar.

What is wrong with me? I feel defective for some reason.

suki44883

There is NOTHING wrong with you. You have just had enough. After so long, it just doesn't matter anymore what they do. We are just done. It does not mean there is anything wrong with you. It just means that too much water has gone under the bridge and there is no way to salvage the marriage.

It is actually a GOOD thing. It shows how far you've come and how much better care you are taking of yourself and your children. If you can salvage a semi-friendship out of it, then fine. But you have no reason to trust this man no matter what he says or does. Ninety days is nothing. No one is fixed in 90 days.

FindingErica

Suki, I just can't trust that this change is going to stik for the long term. I am done, I can feel it in my bones. I want to look forward to living again.

I remember something a comedian said a long time ago, something like, relationships are like milk, if it is bad today you don't put it back in he fridge in hopes it will be fresh tomorrow. I don't know if that is completely true but I need to find me again.

laurie6781

Ahhhhh another 90 day miracle, roflmao

Do not beat up on yourself. He would have to change a lot over a long long period of time. You do NOT have to do anything he asks!

It is his problem not yours. Do not feel bad that you are DONE. A simple NO to his requests with no explanations is all that is required of you.

All of his selfishness is definitely showing. He still wants, what he wants, when he wants it. Nothing has changed but he is not drinking and you do not know if that is totally true either.

You are moving forward, you go girl!!!!!

Love and hugs,

CanfixONLYme

Hi FErica - it's sad when our addicted loved ones have a glimmer of sobriety/health and then expect us to FORGET everything horrific and terrible that has happened and just go back to the way things should have been.

You seem to be on the right track of finding yourself already. To be able to discern that it doesn't feel right (his professions of love, and wanting you back etc)., is pretty big. If he's serious about his recovery, he will be on this path regardless if you are in his life or not and it would be awesome if in a year, you could re-enter into something with him at a more healthier and loving level if he was still on this path.

However, red flags come up quickly when I see the addicted loved one 'in recovery' starts bargaining or guilting their partner/family... it's old behaviors coming out (all about them)... That makes me so sad. I hope he backs off and allows you to really find yourself again.

lightseeker

oh I feel for you on this one. I understand how it feels like the rug is getting pulled out on you.

First of all, 90 days is not long at all. It's easy to be on that pink cloud. There is nothing wrong with your feelings....personally, I think that you are responding to some sort of gut feeling that you have about the whole thing. Also....think that it is completely possible that you've just simply had enough. There comes a point where love is destroyed. When that love light is out - it is out.

Take a deep breath.....you're being prayerful about this and I know that the answers and responses will come to you. You are definitely not being a selfish "be-atch" at all. You are being wise and prudent.

Keep us posted on how you are....sending you lots of thoughts and hugs...

allforcnm

Erica,

By no means are you the bad guy. You have been affected by his addiction and that went along with it. You have a right to feel as you feel. It is quite possible that just too much has come between you, and there is no way back to the love and trust you once shared. Its really sad, but it happens.

My husband and I were separated for about a year, and in that time our little boy came into the world. My husband is now about 5 months clean from drugs after completing a non-12 step 90 day rehab, that included some outpatient. Unlike some other peoples experiences, while he was in rehab, we had a lot of contact, and went through marriage counseling. It was a huge help to us both. He is now back home with me and our son. He is back at work, has made a lot of changes regarding his physical and emotional health. Transferred to a different location within his company because the people he used with were from the office, meets with a psych doctor once a week, etc.

I disagree that 90 days is nothing. 90 days marked a lot of growth for my husband, and a lot of healing from the damage the drugs did. He continues to progress everyday. Now Im not saying there is not a potential for relapse, there is. But it is enough for me to acknowledge it and accept it. Our hope is that one day we can look back on the 12 months he was using and say, that was nothing !

You sound a lot like us actually. My husband has a good job, and he has always been a good provider even when he was using he never was unable to meet those responsibilities. I also have my own career, and without him I would be ok. I have learned a lot about myself in these 5 months, and I am still working on it. Also my huband and I are still going to marriage counseling once a month.

I guess ultimately what Im trying to say is; marriage is about so much…. I have no doubts about staying with my husband; all the feeling is still there & I think the foundation while it was badly shaken; its still strong. If that wasn’t the case, and I just didn’t feel it in my heart and mind, then I would let go.

Take your time. Be sure. Then follow your head and your heart.

supportforme

I'm so sorry--- I know exactly how you feel - I swear I think we're married to the same man I have the same struggles. He has finally found God himself and quoted the Bible regarding adultery if I divorced him and met someone else and something about we are one in God's eyes forever. This coming from a man who actually DID commit adultery. I simply said - I'm glad you found God. He's the only one that has the strength you need right now. As for me... I believe the God would want me to keep myself healthy and not continue in a relationship that would cost me my sanity. AH actually gave me a book about fighting satan and the demon of sinning when being wronged. In other words, you become the sinner if you live your life as feeling that you are wronged-- LOL - God help me... Anyway, I read 2 lines and stopped the insanity. I am finally living for myself and my boys. Me and the boys have been through so much and we all deserve the undivided attention. I am not capable of focusing on anything other than my health and theirs because that's all I can do. It's easier said than done. I too fall into the trap of thinking that he's finally doing what I prayed he would do why can't I just try one more time. I believe it's because we truly did hit our rock bottom. He claims he is so sad b/c he woke up from a coma and he can't understand what has happened. Problem is we weren't in a coma, we weren't being numbed from the pain, we felt the raw pain of their betrayal, we held on tight while they fell to addiction, they were numb; but we felt it and it's devastating to the point were we broke. There is no doubt for me now. So different right? How many times did you image the false hope of being a happy family? imagining him finally seeing you for the wonderful wife and mother you are? And time and time again being disappointed..I finally feel a sense of freedom to be myself and peace and serenity. I'm here for you ....

FindingErica

Thank you do much everyone! I feel is that I am on the right track with this divorce. God has put in place things that I need for guidance, healing and growth. I feel that my main focus is my children. I just don't see putting kids on a plane and flying them to a new city to put them with a sitter all weekend in a hotel or a furniture less house where he lives. He says he is going to try to patch things up with his sister and her partner, and then maybe they will watch the kids. Still using people. . Still wanting to use me, he wants me fixed quick and back to making life easy for him. I believe God has him isolated in Dallas from us for a reason, I believe he is doing a good work with AH. I will believe he has changed when he stops trying to control what I do and starts focusing on parenting his kids. During the crying conversation last week, I told him he can come out on only the weekends I work, take the kids for the whole weekend, stay in a hotel and bring them back before he flies out. He doesn't want that; instead he wants to haul my grumpy butt everywhere and manipulate me. I want him to really start caring about and parenting his children.

I've felt for most of the marriage that we we were mismatched, that we mistook a really good friendship for love. I'd like the chance to experience life at my pace and on my terms. I'm sure me and him can work out a friendship if he stays on the right track that will benefit the children. I just wish he would stay where he is, he obviously loves it, the things he is doing, the people he is meeting, his job. I think he would hate moving back here to participate from an apartment, in the calm life in the small town I have chosen for the children. he is too hyper and requires too much stimulation all the time.

becky1982

Finding Erica- thank you sharing your post, its incredibly helpful to me today. I too am having bible verses thrown in my face, as well as statistics about the number of people who regret getting divorced (in sure he will lol!). My AH is now hyperfocused on "saving the marriage", just another way to avoid looking at his own problems.

A future with him is uncertain. It always will be. Addiction is a chronic illness and life has lots of UPS and downs. After 90 days has he really developed the skills and tools he needs to remain drug free when life throws him a curve ball? Probably not. He is still saying and doing things that reek of manipulation. A tiger doesn't change his stripes in my opinion.

For too long we have been telling ourselves that what we feel is not ok, that we are unacceptable, that we don't have the right to make choices, set boundaries, and take care of ourselves. Let's not do that to ourselves anymore. Let's give ourselves and our feelings all the acceptance we need. We deserve it after all we've been through.

kmangel

At the very least (if you did decide to put the divorce on hold) I think it would be best for the two of you to be separated (for a year, maybe longer) to see what he does with his new found sobriety. 90 days is not long enough to come back in to your life with what would be empty promises. Actions speak louder than words. He has to prove he's changed--not just say it.

zoso77

Do things really change this quickly? After 90 days? NO!!!

I can guarantee you that if you hold firm, if you stay on guard and hold your boundaries, he'll get quite angry, and then you'll see the sick side of him again. What he's saying and how he's behaving is so transparently manipulative, it's disgusting.

Erica, don't fall for the act.

Best,
ZoSo

outtolunch

Well, he's certainly not the first or last " in recovery" person to become sort of manic-obsessed with enlightening other people. Sure beats maintaining a focus on overcoming his own character defects.

That he never considered child care while the two of you attended a seminar says it all and it seems to remain " all about him".

That he's using God to manipulate you is just sad.

On a practical front, putting family first, he could have taken a modest apartment and a PT job and began the process of rebuilding financial security for his family.

I admire your intentions to protect yourself and children from his latest obsession.

GardenMama

Stay Strong, Erica!

I sense that you are, and yet I also completely empathize with how that kind of manipulation can set you back, make you depressed and insecure in your decision. At one point when I was having a really terrible time in my marriage, I asked a friend who was newly divorced (after 21 years of marriage) how she knew when to stop working on the marriage, when does one really KNOW? and is it time for me to be done trying, too? Her answer was something like this: no one can tell you when you are done trying, but when that time comes, you will really know it in your heart and in your body. You seem to have that decision made, and it's real for you, regardless of what he says, does, implores, demands. It was a rough ride for me divorcing him, but I have never regretted the action I finally took that ultimately saved me.

Like you, I hoped he'd just be the dad he had been so good at being, and not let his anger at me spew onto his sweet children. That, too, was out of my control, but dang, I tried so hard to keep their relationships intact I almost wore myself to the bone.

I didn't get the Bible verses, but I did get other things. He used psych books and statistics, and then resorted to telling me that his father's dying wish was that I not go through with the divorce. It does make us feel cold and heartless, not responding to such things, but I had to keep at the front of my mind how it was I got to the place of feeling COLD towards him. I had to remember it was not my mess, I just kept trying to clean it up and had exhausted myself in the process. The marriage had emptied me to a shell. Or a teacup, as JJ's mom would say.

You are strong and you've clearly got the sense of self to do what is life-giving for you and your children. Take care. You have lots of us here to lean on.

FindingErica

Once again I am so grateful for this forum. Every time I have gone against the experiences shared on this forum, thinking that my AH is unique, I have regretted it. I suspect that his next move will be anger. Once he realizes I'm really not going out and postponing the divorce, he will get angry and start using fear.

He did that last weekend, there is something I held back from telling you all. The weekend he came out, the day before he arrived, his lawyer threatened to press criminal kidnapping charges against me unless I disclosed my address and a phone number so he could use to contact the kids. I think I told that. The second thing, which I didn't know until after the first day of visitation, is that he told his lawyer we used together, thus we were then both making drug charges against each other. I was so mad, I asked him when I had been a drug user. He said that one time I tried a puff of the K2. I didn't know what it was and he kept telling me it was legal-it was then- and telling memit was no worse than cigars, so I finally got fed up and said let me have a puff if it isn't so bad. No big deal at the time, later I found out what it was, at the time I didn't even have a name for the stuff. So I said to him one puff once is not the same as daily continuous use over years. He gets all wide eyed and says well I was just telling the truth, and claims he never thought his lawyer would use that. His lawyer in her letter to my lawyer worded it that we had used together but AH has 5 months worth of clean drug tests (of course he does, K2 does not show up on routine drug tests that is why it was his DOC) and has been actively attending NA and AA. Of course I have no drug tests as I was employed consistently and I am not in AA and NA because I am not an addict or even a recreational user of anything. He then cornered me on the second day of the weekend while the kids were left to do the activity he was supposed to be helping them with. He told me that now that we both levied drug allegations against each other, DCFS would have to get involved and may even take the kids. Fear and lies. Then of course there was the incident where he withheld my car keys in Best Buy, stating the car was in his name and wasn't mine. More fear and lies. And while he is doing all these threatening things, he is alternately professing how much he cares and wants his family back together. That is what he does, he puts me in a state of anxiety and then offers refuge.

The bottom line, I don't want him back. I will not believe he has made a true internal change until he puts his kids as a full priority, not using his parenting time as a front to manipulate me. When he first promised to change and wanted me out there, my stipulation was that I wouldn't believe him until I saw him patch things up sincerely with his sister and my brother. I know this man, he made a boo hoo poor me apology to his sister and didn't contact her again. Then I knew he was going through the motions and that I was done. Now I have this boundary in place about the kids, and I know what him making the kids a real priority would look like.

Bottom line, he has been too disconnected from us for too long. He has been too resentful of our demands on his time and money. Now he states he realizes how selfish he has been, but I don't think he really realizes it. We have fallen into too many bad patterns for too long, to fix it all. I've seen him before in this highly religious free from drug phase, that is where he was when I started dating him almost 20 years ago. It didn't last, and I have never been enough for him. Once he realizes it is truly over, he will find someone else then I will know where he stands on the whole adultery issue. LOL

interrupted

Your strength is so inspiring. YOU are so inspiring. What a lunatic! Only a certifiable control monger would compromise his own children's safety and comfort (with the allegations) just to try to manipulate you into submission. You are onto him and I think you're right that he'll get even more angry as his attempts to control you continue to fail.

In dog training we call this an "extinction burst". When we attempt to train a dog who has historically been rewarded for a particular bad behavior out of that behavior, for example barking to get a treat/attention, the dog will initially increase the bad behavior even though it is no longer producing a reward. A dog that has always barked and been rewarded for it, upon not being rewarded, will initially bark more furiously and more intensely to try to force the expected treat before quieting down and realizing that silence is the new preferred behavior. I think we all know who the dog is here, let's name him Ticktock!

BeavsDad

You are a good mom. Your kids will be just fine.

Glad you're able to tune out the Siren's Song.

FindingErica

Saw my therapist today, feel a lot better about my choice to stay the course on the divorce. I had a revelation that he is more dependent on me than I on him, even though I always thought it was the other way around. He is like a kid right now- cring, begging, throwing tantrums, pouting, threatening. He is scrambling and I just have to hold on and stay grounded. It is sad too saying goodbye to a marriage and kind of scary but I can't continue my life as it has been, I need change and to find myself, that will never happen if a change isn't made.

I really love the extinction behavior analogy.

suki44883

I'm glad you are feeling better about your choices. I think you know what is best for you and your kids, it's just hard. Change is really hard, but, you've been living without him for a while now, so you know you can do it.

From what you have said about your husband, he sounds very much like a narcissistic control freak I was once married to. He will go to great lengths to attempt to manipulate you, but if you don't fall for it, then he turns ugly and mean. Strange, because just five minutes before, he was willing to do anything for you. You will never be happy with this guy.

Keep doing what you are doing and you will be fine. It may take a while to get through everything and of course, since you have kids together, you will have to maintain some contact with him, don't let him run roughshod over you. He will try.

GardenMama

Erica,
Suki's comment about him being a "narcissistic control freak" resonated with my former life, and I remembered a chapter in a very important book that may help you get perspective. It's been mentioned here on other threads. The book is "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry & Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft (2002). The whole book is enlightening, but you should first just skip to Chapter 4, Types of Abusive Men. You may find solace in reading about "The Water Torturer" and "Mr. Sensitive." This book gave me so much insight that my courage was tripled just reading it. Let me know if you find it and what you think...Addiction is only one part of the onion--the layers underneath can be just as awful. Hang in there. Glad you are feeling more resolute today.