Talltrees

I want to share something I've never talked about before. And I also want to thank you all in advance for your support in the past. I know how this is going to sound, and I worry that I will be misunderstood. That said, please don't hold back in your replies... I will try not to sugar-coat anything.

This morning I got into an argument with my husband about his drinking. It was stupid really. He snored all night and kept me awake, which usually happens on the nights he drinks before bed, which makes me tired in the daytime when I have to take care of our two sons. Our arguments usually consist of a complaint monologue from me while he just listens, quite respectfully actually, and says almost nothing. Not so coincidentally, he ended up clogging the toilet this morning (I am seriously thinking of deleting this part when I'm done typing) and had water spilling all over the bathroom (lol, this has never happened before). I got madder and helped clean it up, then went on about how I was sick of his drinking in the evenings and that it makes me worry about the amount he drinks sometimes. Then as he was leaving for work, I, somewhat enraged, began dumping out the remaining contents of the bottles on top of the fridge. He commented, "That's kind of a waste," and just left and said he loved me, not angry at all. Afterwards I felt like a jerk.

My family of origin has major problems with alcoholism and addiction, and it really hits a nerve for me to see my husband, or really anybody, over-drink (for lack of a better word). Truthfully, I do not know if his drinking habits are worrisome. He drinks most nights, but not every night, and it doesn't bother me unless he does it while the kids are awake (it makes him lazy and I have to do everything---our kids are 21 months and 10 months), or if the kids are in bed and he just sits there watching tv or using his computer and ends up taking 6 or 7 shots of whiskey over a couple of hours without even thinking about it. When I walk in the room and get mad and tell him to stop, he does. When I ask him to stop and help with the kids, he does. But I wish it wasn't an issue. I don't want to tell him to stop, I don't want to get pissy and act like a jerk when he drinks at the wrong time or drinks what I think is too much, but it MAKES HIM STOP, which is what I want. Am I overreacting?

I feel terrible talking about my husband this way. He is the most hard-working, modest, respectful person I have ever known, and has incredible self-control in every aspect of his life. (Yeah yeah, I know how I sound, but I mean it).

I also need to say that I have a problem, as you may have noticed. I get angry. I take advantage of his respect for me when I get upset and I become very controlling, and afterwards I always feel sorry and ashamed. I am working on it. Definitely not where I want to be, but it happens far less often and most of the time I'm now able to stop myself and shut up before I spit venom. This morning wasn't venom, but if he'd stuck around I might have gotten to that point.

Anyway, I'd appreciate some of your wisdom. About the drinking, about my bad habits, about the situation. I guess my biggest fear would be for one of the long-time recovering alcoholics to say, "Yep, I was just like your husband when I started..."

Learn2Live

Sounds like life with an alcoholic. Have you tried going to Al-Anon?

Anon12

He sounds like my XABF before things got worse. Actually even after things got worse. No abuse the following day, always listened while I ranted but still behaved in a way I couldn't cope with in the end. I didnt wan to be his mother, i wanted to be his partner. It escalated to him drinking secretly (becsuse he tried to stop drinking for me and couldn't) and now he has a possible dui charge - this from someone who would never have done that.

I don't know your exact situation but it sounds like you are suggesting this is your fault somehow. Its not. I remember feeling guilty at being angry and backtracking but it didn't make a difference. I also spent a lot of time analysing whether my abf was an alcoholic, clinging to the differences between him and the alcoholic partners of others in my support group or even on here. I still do if I'm honest but the comment that stays with me that many posters have said is if his drinking is a problem for you, then it doesn't matter what the label, it's a problem and there is help out there and on here to help you deal with it.

Talltrees

Truthfully, I am happy. Our arguing about the drinking is not frequent, and usually it doesn't even cross my mind. This really doesn't sound like a typical married couple to anybody? One or two times a month the husband drinks too much, the wife gets annoyed with him, and they go on and forget about it? I see couples like us---one drinks, the other gets annoyed---and that is what I think, that they are just typical. I really felt like what happened today was about me losing control and acting like a child. And I really do believe he could and would stop drinking completely just because I said so. Should I try it?

And, if you really think he is an alcoholic, please tell me how I will know. These responses terrify me, and surprise me a little.

Learn2Live

I think you are blaming yourself for getting frustrated and angry for his behavior. HIS drinking is causing YOU problems and you are blaming yourself.

FireSprite

Yes, this sounds likes us in the very early days, before AH's addiction progressed & while he still had the impression of control over it all. He was becoming a professional alcoholic & I kept thinking of each incident as a separate event but NOW I see it all more clearly. Hindsight, for sure.

Whether or not it is a problem in your lives is for you to decide, but it definitely sounds like something you are not OK with.

Anon12

I didn't mean to scare you but I wish I had found SR several years ago when things were really good with the odd 'blip' as I might have saved myself the pain I'm going through now. The odd blip became more often as circumstances became more difficult and my XABF drank to deal with it.

Have you tried talking to him calmly once the specific incident is out of the way and you are not angry anymore? Maybe to tell him how his drinking impacts on you. Then see what he does with that. I always imagined an alcoholic drank all the time, or needed to drink to get through the day but through reading, I've learned a major sign is if it has a negative impact on the A's relationships but they still do it. If he can see that impact it has on your relationship and shows you actions (not words) that he wants to change, then that's what you need to go on.

But he can't give up drinking for you, it won't work. My X tried that, I really believe now looking back he was trying, but he wasn't really ready to face up that he needed to do it for him so he failed sadly and started hiding his drinking which escalated and now we are no longer together.

I wish I had read up on addiction had I realised sooner as I often wonder if I could have helped myself by not putting up with it earlier and who knows,, that may have helped him. Read 'Under the Influence' and I've found 'I'll stop tomorrow' by Paul Campbell really useful as it is written by an alcoholic but a successful, charming, normal guy whose drinking got out of control. I had so many lightbulb moments, I wished I'd known sooner...

Seren

I'm sorry you are so frustrated right now, but from what you describe, none of your arguing and anger is really changing his behavior, is it? It seems to me what it is doing is causing you a great deal of stress that you do not deserve. Whether or not your husband is truly addicted, none of us can tell you. For me, the bigger picture would be his lack of engagement with his family and help with children in the evenings.

Detachment in any relationship is an extremely valuable skill--whether or not addiction is part of the equation. It seems to me that it would be worthwhile to think about some boundaries for yourself about the type of behavior that is acceptable to you as it relates to your relationship with your husband.

It helps me enormously to remember the 3C's: I didn't cause the addiction; I cannot control the addict; I cannot cure the addict. I frequently have to lather, rinse, repeat this phrase to myself as needed

Hugs! HG

lillamy

Nope. Doesn't sound like a typical married couple to me. Or at least not like a marriage I would care to be in.

It sounds to me like you're the mom and he's one of the kids. He sounds like my teenager, who will be totally absorbed in her own world of video games or social media -- and when I ask herto get up and do something, she does. I don't expect a child to take equal responsibility for what needs to get done in the home -- but I sure expect that from a spouse or partner.

Whether that's his personality or a result of his drinking, I have no idea. But I know this: If his drinking is a problem to you, it's a problem to you. Doesn't matter what you call it.

That doesn't mean you HAVE TO do anything. You can choose to continue the way it is (although it sounds like you're not really OK with that). You can choose to go to Al-Anon and figure out how to change your own behavior patterns. You can do a whole lot of different things, but it's all your choice. You are in control of yourself, and what you do. It's up to you whether you want to accept status quo.

Cyranoak

...if you were happy you wouldn't be here. Also, NO, it is not like a typical married couple and even the notion of this as being somehow normal is twisted thinking.

In addition, I noticed you dodged the question about Alanon. If you aren't already going please open your mind and try at least six meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you.

Or, keep doing what you are doing and keep getting what you are getting-- or worse.

Cyranoak

P.s. Your husband has a problem-- it's his responsibility to solve it, and his alone. You also have a problem-- it's your responsibility to solve it, and yours alone.

Talltrees

I'm sort of wishing I had posted this in the ACOA forum. I don't think my husband is an alcoholic and it really wasn't my intention to ask whether he had a problem. I am more interested in how I can learn to stop hating everyone with a drink in their hand. I've lost good friendships over it---friendships I desperately needed during the time I was pregnant while my husband was deployed. So, it has caused me some incredible loneliness at times. I do not lie to myself. I explore my worries because I want to be better. And I am frightened when people experienced in dealing with addicts tell me that the person I love has a problem. I receive a lot of support here, and it is because I read others' posts and think to myself, Wow, she found the perfect words for the way I am feeling. This time has been quite different. Sometimes people do annoying things that cause problems for their spouses, and that is what I consider it. Small, annoying problems that I can live with. And I don't like to create tension, but I feel that some of the posts were a little unfair.

Cyranoak, I "dodged" the question about Al-Anon because I thought my next response would clarify that I had not tried it. So no, I've never been to Al-Anon.

LuvMySis

Talltrees, I think I understand what you're asking. Like you, I am hyper-sensitive on the subject of alcohol. I'm an ACOA, and I can't stand alcohol or alcoholics in any way, shape, or form. And while I realize there are many people who enjoy alcohol and drink responsibly, I still hate it and I don't think anyone should drink it. I don't see any useful purpose for it - ever.

So I understand why you wondered out loud if it's YOUR problem. Under these circumstances, though, I think your reaction to your husband's drinking habits is justified. I don't think that drinking shots of whiskey while at home with a wife and children is acceptable, so I'm inclined to say in this instance, you're not over-reacting.

Katiekate

My dad was an alcoholic, I swore I would never get involved with someone who was, I did. I too hated drinking.

I understand everything you are saying here, I think you really need to focus on how this is impacting you. I don't think anyone meant any harm. I really don't. All of us here in the section have had difficult decisions to make about people we love, people who's drinking had an impact on our lives. There is something there that is forcing you to reach out to those of us who have had problems with the people in our lives drinking.

I too am an ACOA, I too had lots of weeks and months when I said, I can handle my SO's drinking. In the end I could not.

You are struggling, that is what we are most concerned about.

Keep posting. Katiexo

Talltrees

LuvMySis, thanks for that. It's one of my "she found the perfect words" moments :-) And I also think SOME reaction is justified on my part, but I still want to be better at handling myself.

Anvilhead, yes, I did as for input. Like I said, I thought some of it was unfair. I think the part that mattered most to me was disregarded because I mentioned alcohol, as if my own problem is not real because my husband drinks. And like I said, I'm not a fan of tension...

And thank you too, Katiekate. I have thought about the impact and will continue to do so, and sometimes I do need people to remind me. I don't think this post was a waste and am grateful that so many people care enough to be so blunt. I guess the controlling part of me wants to steer everyone's focus in the direction I want it. I'll try to stop that in the future, but I think I might be done here.

LuvMySis

Yes, exactly what Katiekate said. That's how I feel about it. The thought that I, or you, would have to endure someone in my/your house drinking to excess makes me panicky. Unfortunately, that's a by-product of coming from an alcoholic family.

changeschoices

Well, here is what I see is problematic:

• He's drinking most nights. I don't know how much you're talking, but for men, 1 to 2 drinks a night is sort of okay according to guidelines, but to me, anyone who drinks every night is at the least a problem drinker. Alcohol is not water; you don't need it daily to survive.
  
• He is spending a good amount of money on alcohol if he drinks most nights. That's not very responsible.
  
• He is disengaged from family life. That is not being a good partner. Even if he waits to drink til the kids go to bed, that means most nights your "couple time" is probably messed up because he's drinking.
  
• He is not taking care of his health. If he's drinking and snoring, it's going to take a toll on his heart. Snoring is a serious health problem.
  
• His snoring is keeping you up. You could make him sleep on the couch. So much for quality of marriage if you like sleeping with your spouse.
  
• Can you trust him to be sober to watch the kids while you go out? If not, you are essentially a prisoner in your own home and a single parent of sorts.
  
• Just because he "listens" to your complaints silently does not mean he is being a good partner. It sounds like the rules of the game are: you yell, he says nothing but pretends to act like he cares, you feel guilty the next day, he's off the hook because of your guilt, and he keeps drinking. So not only do you feel upset about his drinking, you also take the blame for your anger and feel like a bad partner. When in reality, he should be the one feeling like a bad partner.
  
• You are in the role of the Bad Mommy. You nag him about drinking. Not much fun in a marriage. It will kill intimacy and friendship. I'm not saying you're wrong to nag him, of course you are angry about his behavior, you are perfectly normal! But you are being cast in an unhealthy role. That's where AlAnon can help. It will only make you feel worse and worse about yourself if you keep nagging him. You don't deserve to feel that way.
  
• He is acting like a child. Enough said. No adult is entitled to sit around and drink while another adult runs around and does everything.
  
• Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Since it seems your husband is at the very least a problem drinker at this point, it's very likely that it will get worse. And as alcoholism progresses, it's a horror show.

If you can get involved in AlAnon and/or see a counselor by yourself, I think you will get the feedback you need to determine what needs to be done in your situation. Best of luck, and stick around here! It's incredibly helpful.

yorkiegirl

I am an ACOA too. Although I came into recovery because of my RAH, I realize how much being an ACOA has affected all aspects of my life (including marrying my A/RAH).. Alcohol bothers me. I am angry at alcohol. I hate alcohol. The thought, smell, sight of alcohol makes me ill. I have cried because of alcohol as a child & as an adult. I am secretly envious of families who can enjoy alcohol (like have a glass of wine for dinner or one glass of beer w/ pizza for lunch & drink that one beer over a one to two hour period. I wish I could buy cooking wine & not think twice about it. I wish other people's drinking didn't bother me. . .I wish alcohol was just *not* an issue either way!

I found Alanon (especially ACOA meetings), even though my qualifier is my RAH, not my parent who hasn't had a drink in over 25 years, very helpful in just finding peace & serenity. I just want things in general not to bother me (most espeically I don't want someone else's alcohol consumption & all that comes with it to be any of my concern). . .

Thank you for your post. I identified with it very much. Best to you in your healing. If there is an ACOA meeting near your place, you should check it out.

Thumper

I share a lot of those behaviors you are self-identifying. It is what was modeled for me as a child, how I learned to cope, and it was/is quite dysfunctional. It is hard for me because those behaviors are not a reflection of my core values and are not who I want to be. I didn't know how to change that though. Al-anon, SR, lots of reading from the recommended lists here, and just being aware are helping me change.

It is the elephant in the room type thing. My mother and I both ignore the elephant in the room - WRECKING THE ENTIRE HOUSE - and flip out over the little mouse in the corner. Don't talk, don't trust, don't feel. Those are the rules of an alcoholic home and I learned them and now so have my children -at least the oldest. I am trying to undo that now but it is hard. So we don't talk about the elephant, we don't acknowledge our feelings surrounding the elephant, and we are adrift and don't trust because life with an elephant (especially one we ignore) is quite precarious.

So that is my experience of some of the behaviors you described. I think al-anon would be a great fit for you even if your husband didn't drink one drop.

My experience on the part of your post addressing your husbands drinking is that when our childhoods are steeped in alcohol abuse/alcoholism we have no point of reference for normal. Other people have deafening alarm bells going off and we are just beginning to see the tip of a red flag. I would not begin to guess if your husband was an alcoholic or not but I will say that his drinking habits are way on the other side of the 'normal/typical drinker' line. I am so sorry to say that but it is.

So no, I do not think you are overreacting. This dynamic you are describing is so familiar to me. There is a little voice inside you sending up little whispers of concern. That little voice is always to be trusted, honored, and listened to. When you turn away from your real concerns (his drinking and how that is affecting you and your family life) and focus on why it should not be a problem or on how you should change your behavior to be more accommodating and pleasant, you are shushing that little voice. I shushed that voice for years and I paid a steep price.

So when you hear that voice whisper up try and focus on your values, on your boundaries. I can tell you I had a terrible time identifying, articulating, honoring, protecting, my personal boundaries. My values. It was not easy and took a lot of work and I'm still working on it. This is where your work is. Your life is a reflection of your boundaries and values. When I shushed that voice I began erasing my boundaries and values, one by one, more and more, until I was so confused I didn't know anything other then that I must leave or have a mental breakdown - for real. I was that distressed. Don't get to that point. You are so young (I think) and your children are young and you are SO SMART - way smarter then I was at the same point.

Hang on. This, right now, is not about your husband or your family. It is about you. If you focus on you, the rest will fall into place.

yorkiegirl

Wow, such words of wisdom:

There is a little voice inside you sending up little whispers of concern. That little voice is always to be trusted, honored, and listened to. When you turn away from your real concerns (his drinking and how that is affecting you and your family life) and focus on why it should not be a problem or on how you should change your behavior to be more accommodating and pleasant, you are shushing that little voice. I shushed that voice for years and I paid a steep price.

So when you hear that voice whisper up try and focus on your values, on your boundaries.

Thank you, Thumper!

NYCDoglvr

Do you think 6 or 7 shots of whiskey is normal drinking? It helps to keep in mind that alcoholism is a progressive disease and there's no way an alcoholic can control that. I'm in my 20th year of recovery; I ended up a daily drinker but I wasn't that for the first five or six years. I drank like your husband. Al-anon would be a big help because it deals with your relationship with the alcoholic including the anger and rage.