sugarbear1

I have a friend who's been in and out of AA for 18 years, still on the steps 1 2 3 dance.

Now, after her last relapse, her sponsor has suggested 90 in 90.

Sorry, it's not the meetings that have helped me get to one year; it was working the steps 4-9 that made the difference. 10-12 daily also helps. I have the steps to work in any situation I am in; I don't have a meeting any time I am having problems in life....

When will this sponsor realize that this person needs the solution that is in the steps?

More or less just venting here. My friend now believes it's the 90 in 90 that will help her. I tend to disagree.

Opinions on the topic welcomed!

wow04

I danced in and out of AA for 3 years. It took me getting a sponser that told me either I work the steps or die drinking. My experience was I had to work all steps in order to stay sober. Like you, I work 10-12 daily.

Maybe with her doing 90 in 90, she will see someone who has what she wants.

UpperbucksAAguy

It's like going to an emergency room while bleeding profusely and choosing to not be seen by the doctor

Lily

Sugarbear, I honestly think that people who have NOT worked the steps really think that meetings can keep them sober, while they walk around w/ tons of resentments and baggage they could have been free from had they worked through the steps.

I only think and can say this is cuz i used to believe it too!

shaun00

Fellowship is very helpful in very early sobriety.

But fellowship isn't the solution, no human power will ever be the solution .

The solution is the steps.......nose in the book for 90 days sounds good

UpperbucksAAguy

"Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not." (BB page 34)

Not everyone in AA has lost the power of choice. Some folks just needed to change their social situation. The fellowship of AA provides a great place for them to have that.

Tommyh

I did the 1-2-3 waltz until I got me a bellyful of booze and was willing to do anything to live,including taking the 12 steps.

Sugarbear,I guess you have told her how you finally got sober and what it takes?

90 in 90 is fine if you are doing the steps.

muvinon

I can't imagine that the sponsor hasn't suggested moving forward with the steps as a solution to relapse.

But....some people refuse.

miamifella

All of my sponsors say that the first three steps are the ones given to you. They do not get worked. In particular, you cannot decide to "believe." You either do or do not.

In my experience, sponsors start working with a sponsee when they are ready for a fourth step. I think it is great to read here that there are sponsors willing to give more support early on.

I was one of those who never moved on because I did not know how. So rather than clucking over how misguided someone is, why not offer help? Early recovery is where people need the most help, so maybe offering to help someone understand the first three steps would be a good start. I know for sure, I would have been glad for the help!

tomsteve

although meetings are important, going to meetings and not drinking didnt treat my alcoholism. it was working every step that got me sober and practicing the principles of every step in all of my affairs that keeps me sober.

how another sponsor takes another sponsee through the steps is none of my business.

Boleo

I agree. Faith without works is dead and work involves inventory, amends and service to others. Trying to get by on just the first three steps is like paddling a boat with one oar in the water. You just end up going in circles.

miamifella

Boleo--

I agree and that is why I eventually left 12-step recovery. I needed to DO something and after years of trying to "get" belief I realized that it might never come.

I thought about lying and saying that I had the first three steps so that my sponsor would work with me. But I thought that if I based my recovery on a lie that would not be good.

It seems to me that people trying to get through the first three steps need MORE one-on-one help, not LESS. I know that there are never enough sponsors blah blah blah---but I think that if 12-step programs did more for people in early sobriety they would help more people. But the pattern seems to be to complain about the newcomer and wait for them to prove themselves.

If I had had someone help me through the first three steps maybe I would have stayed in the program. It was not something I could do on my own. If it is not a sponsors place, then maybe others can help.

Of course it is easier to see that at a distance and who am I to make suggestions. But I bet with more sponsor involvement early on there would be less 1-2-3 dance going on.

sugarbear1

You all just relieved my frustration!

Thanks to ALL of you!!

I'm kind of wondering if my friend is just avoiding the real step work. We'll get her there, in time!

Thanks again!!

TheJungianThing

The way I understand it Dr. Bob didn't stop drinking until approaches for Step 9 were made.

Two guys I know, stuck on Step 8, drank again. Wasn't much, they came back right away. A bit more willing to get willing and start on their 9th Step.


I've met folks that didn't get into the 4th Step until after a year or more. Untreated alcoholism - it was either drink - or get with the program. They opted for the program.

Boleo

Your right, the problem is not the with the newcomer. Nor is it all old-timers who tell newcomers to take their time. If there is any single source for the blame, it would be the short form of Tradition 3 - "The ONLY requirement for membership...".

Unfortunately, this quote gets over-used to the point that many members (new & old) think of it as a suggestion to do nothing except attend meetings.

miamifella

Boleo--

You could be right. But without some guidance of course there will be misunderstandings.

Maybe with the growth of the internet it is different now than it was 10 years ago when I started, but I have to admit that there is a lot that I did not understand from the Big Book alone. I learned a lot on this forum about the program that I never knew when I was a part of it.

I think that the program is so concerned that we do not become dependent on other people for sobriety that we overlook all the parts of the Big Book that say that members need to be available to help each other. Throwing a Big Book at the newcomer, ordering them to throw out their green clothing and wash oldtimers' cars, then telling them to get back to their sponsor for their 4th step---it is not enough.

It does not surprise me that so many never get to the point of getting to work with their sponsors.

Lily

A lady took me through the steps last year meeting w/ her once a week for an hour for about 2 months or so. She gave me a LOT of homework.... I was VERY willing. I had been a chronic relapser for 20 yrs plus. I had so much self hatred and self loathing I hated everyone else and I was positive everyone else hated me.

She wasn't even my sponsor, but the relief that followed was incredible!! It was as if a 1000 lb weight had been removed from my shoulders. I am forever grateful for her.

Thank you M.M.S.!! You are an angel!!

Maybe somehow you could help her...Not to undermine her sponsor, but in addition to her sponsors work?

sugarbear1

Dr. Bob was sober and DID work the steps in order before working on his ninth step, but, he did all of his ninth step in one day.

The thing that got him stuck originally was that he didn't want to confess to his patients or colleagues that he was under the influence when he performed medical work/decisions.

The difference was that there were about 6 steps, based on The Oxford Group, that the original AAer's worked. Bill W. turned those 6 steps into 12. 12 is a spiritual number. See page 13 of the 4th edition of the big book (well, page 13 hasn't changed since the 1st edition). Read Not-God A History Of Alcoholics Anonymous by Ernest Kurtz.

Boleo

It seems to me like there was more action sooner in those original 6 precepts.

1. "We admitted we were licked."
2. "We got honest with ourselves." 
3. "We talked it over with another person. "
4. "We made amends to those we had harmed." 
5. "We tried to carry this message to others with no thought of reward." 
6. "We prayed to whatever God we thought there was ."

Db1105

One can do 90 and 90 AND work steps 4 through 12. For me, the third step is working 4 through 12. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. That's all a sponsor can do.