their lies
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
their lies
RA and I celebrated his b-day yesterday. I treated him to a nice dinner and gifts. Things seemed ok on surface, but lately I have felt there was something not quite right between us. My intuition was screaming at me loud and clear, but of course I kept walking further into the mess.
I saw a brochure on his dresser with a womans name, part of a phone #, and an email address. It was a brochure for something else, but he had scribbled her name and email over the top of it. When I saw it I asked him about it. First he denied knowing what it was. Then he said it was something from over a year ago when he had inquired about a yoga class they had given him this womans name and email address...suffice to say I was freaking out at this time, but kept quiet, hoping against hope he'd convince me otherwise.
A short while later I couldn't stand it and blurted out, 'who is this woman'??? He of course in standard A fashion got pissed off, defensive and walked away. Said he had told me what it was, and why was I always so jealous, esp. of people in his AA groups.
I am not the jealous type, and truth be told RA is not the most attractive man that women would be flocking around, but he does truly love attention b/c i guess he's very insecure and it makes him feel better. Now, this could have been just that, him writing down some woman's email address and nothing more.
We talked about it on the ride home. I now see I should have held my stance and let him explain, even if it had meant we ended out 'nice' night on a horrible note. Should have let him be accountable. No, not me...i took it and made it OK (even though deep down I felt otherwise), and went home.
Later on when he should have texted me goodnight or called, even briefly, he did not. I called left vm, sent a handful of texts. Nothing. This morning, nothing.
My heart is broken. I know, and have known I need to run from this. Learned too well from other things when something hurts me and I am powerless to change it, I need to get as far away as I can for my own good. Still, I want him to make it right. Same old story. And he doesn't. EVER. Never accountable for his actions.
I am also thinking that maybe this is more of his same passive aggressive behavior, and coward he is cannot end this R, but wants me to.
So sad. I only wanted the best for him. Like others here, did too much. And now i see, stayed way too long for myself. Self esteem in the gutter. This hurts.
Any thoughts, much appreciated.
I saw a brochure on his dresser with a womans name, part of a phone #, and an email address. It was a brochure for something else, but he had scribbled her name and email over the top of it. When I saw it I asked him about it. First he denied knowing what it was. Then he said it was something from over a year ago when he had inquired about a yoga class they had given him this womans name and email address...suffice to say I was freaking out at this time, but kept quiet, hoping against hope he'd convince me otherwise.
A short while later I couldn't stand it and blurted out, 'who is this woman'??? He of course in standard A fashion got pissed off, defensive and walked away. Said he had told me what it was, and why was I always so jealous, esp. of people in his AA groups.
I am not the jealous type, and truth be told RA is not the most attractive man that women would be flocking around, but he does truly love attention b/c i guess he's very insecure and it makes him feel better. Now, this could have been just that, him writing down some woman's email address and nothing more.
We talked about it on the ride home. I now see I should have held my stance and let him explain, even if it had meant we ended out 'nice' night on a horrible note. Should have let him be accountable. No, not me...i took it and made it OK (even though deep down I felt otherwise), and went home.
Later on when he should have texted me goodnight or called, even briefly, he did not. I called left vm, sent a handful of texts. Nothing. This morning, nothing.
My heart is broken. I know, and have known I need to run from this. Learned too well from other things when something hurts me and I am powerless to change it, I need to get as far away as I can for my own good. Still, I want him to make it right. Same old story. And he doesn't. EVER. Never accountable for his actions.
I am also thinking that maybe this is more of his same passive aggressive behavior, and coward he is cannot end this R, but wants me to.
So sad. I only wanted the best for him. Like others here, did too much. And now i see, stayed way too long for myself. Self esteem in the gutter. This hurts.
Any thoughts, much appreciated.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
This was the hard part for me: Putting down the magnifying glass that was focused on my A and picking up the mirror and looking at myself.
From your post, I see a lot of focus on what he is doing/not doing that does not meet your expectations. These expectations lead to resentments.
From the beginning of your evening: you had expectations. You were taking Him out for His birthday. His Birthday vs. Your expectations = Resentments.
The evening ends with Your expectations of how he should end His Birthday, and results in your resentment.
I have a favorite passage about resentments in Courage to Change (Alanon literature). It is from the June 1 reading:
"A long time member says, 'An expectation is a premeditated resentment.' I take this statement to suggest that when I have a resentment I can look to my expectations for a probable source.
Here's an example: I have a brother who is less attentive to being prompt than I am. When I make a plan with him that involves meeting at a certain time, I am cooperating in establishing conditions that encourage me to nurse a resentment. On the other hand, when I make a plan with my brother that is based on no expectation of promptness, I feel no resentment.
Today's Reminder:
I have the right to choose my own standards of conduct, but I do not have the right or the power to impose those standards on others.
'I have accepted myself and I'm beginning to accept other people the way they are each day. Now I have fewer resentments.' Living with Sobriety"
From your post, I see a lot of focus on what he is doing/not doing that does not meet your expectations. These expectations lead to resentments.
From the beginning of your evening: you had expectations. You were taking Him out for His birthday. His Birthday vs. Your expectations = Resentments.
The evening ends with Your expectations of how he should end His Birthday, and results in your resentment.
I have a favorite passage about resentments in Courage to Change (Alanon literature). It is from the June 1 reading:
"A long time member says, 'An expectation is a premeditated resentment.' I take this statement to suggest that when I have a resentment I can look to my expectations for a probable source.
Here's an example: I have a brother who is less attentive to being prompt than I am. When I make a plan with him that involves meeting at a certain time, I am cooperating in establishing conditions that encourage me to nurse a resentment. On the other hand, when I make a plan with my brother that is based on no expectation of promptness, I feel no resentment.
Today's Reminder:
I have the right to choose my own standards of conduct, but I do not have the right or the power to impose those standards on others.
'I have accepted myself and I'm beginning to accept other people the way they are each day. Now I have fewer resentments.' Living with Sobriety"
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Hi Wynter,
My thoughts:
Gut reactions (instincts) are usually right.
Denial - immediate reaction after being caught on the spot - followed by reasonable explanation - after hes had some time to think about an answer, and finally to make it about you so that he can blame shift in a hope that you will try to defend yourself or let it go.
If 'reasonable explanation' was the truth, wouldn't he have just said that first.
You have made it ok and so hes got away with giving you three responses, none of which are close to the truth.
Followed up with the silent treatment, a form of abuse because you had the nerve to question him or because he needs to bluster and act angry, to make you feel as though what you asked was wrong (blowing you of the scent) or because he wants you to feel bad for not trusting him (making it about you)
Your alcoholic may be in recovery but his 'stinking thinking' is still very much active.
I am sorry that you are having to deal with this. It doesn't seem right that they can stop drinking but still behave with such little respect. We (those who have lived and love an alcoholic) really do have to raise the bar about what we find acceptable in a relationship. Lying, blame-shifting, abusive and lack of respect should be up the top of the list of what not to have in a partner. Having left my verbally abusive, controlling AH of 23yrs, there is no way that I would accept the unacceptable these day. I am a very important person and the way I live my life is important to me. I am worthy, content and happy.
Have you tried Al-anon wynter? Can you get into therapy? Its time to make it all about you and put yourself first - dont you think?
My thoughts:
lately I have felt there was something not quite right between us. My intuition was screaming at me loud and clear
First he denied knowing what it was, then he said it was something from over a year ago when he had inquired about a yoga class they had given him this womans name
why was I always so jealous, esp. of people in his AA groups.
If 'reasonable explanation' was the truth, wouldn't he have just said that first.
You have made it ok and so hes got away with giving you three responses, none of which are close to the truth.
Later on when he should have texted me goodnight or called, even briefly, he did not. I called left vm, sent a handful of texts. Nothing. This morning, nothing.
Your alcoholic may be in recovery but his 'stinking thinking' is still very much active.
I am sorry that you are having to deal with this. It doesn't seem right that they can stop drinking but still behave with such little respect. We (those who have lived and love an alcoholic) really do have to raise the bar about what we find acceptable in a relationship. Lying, blame-shifting, abusive and lack of respect should be up the top of the list of what not to have in a partner. Having left my verbally abusive, controlling AH of 23yrs, there is no way that I would accept the unacceptable these day. I am a very important person and the way I live my life is important to me. I am worthy, content and happy.
Have you tried Al-anon wynter? Can you get into therapy? Its time to make it all about you and put yourself first - dont you think?
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
I do understand about expectations, and how they set you up for a fall. Although, in my experience, not all the times. Depends on who you are expecting something from. But, I also feel that when both people in a caring relationship are considerate, sensitive to each others needs (in a perfect world, I know) it all goes smoothly, serenely, and expectations are not a focus any more.
Only when things are already kind of 'blech' do you have those pesky expectations that create the tsunami effect that i am seeing now.
Are you saying I should have NO expectations in this R? I feel like there are rules and standards for me, but of course none pertaining to him. He does what he wants, and if I get my feelings hurt (which happens quite often), then oh well. Calling him out on his bad behavior worsens things dramatically.
I don't feel like we see things in the same light. At all.
Dropping expectations is powerful, will agree, but when it's an unequal partnership, then IMO you are setting yourself up for more hurts and self-destruction.
I give, give, give. What about MY needs?
Only when things are already kind of 'blech' do you have those pesky expectations that create the tsunami effect that i am seeing now.
Are you saying I should have NO expectations in this R? I feel like there are rules and standards for me, but of course none pertaining to him. He does what he wants, and if I get my feelings hurt (which happens quite often), then oh well. Calling him out on his bad behavior worsens things dramatically.
I don't feel like we see things in the same light. At all.
Dropping expectations is powerful, will agree, but when it's an unequal partnership, then IMO you are setting yourself up for more hurts and self-destruction.
I give, give, give. What about MY needs?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
"Your alcoholic may be in recovery but his 'stinking thinking' is still very much active."
Yes, you are spot on. Blame shifting, disrespect, read all of those loud and clear. And silent treatment...sheezus, I could write a book on that one. It's his pattern that has repeated throughout this 2.5 year R. Sucks. I have wracked my brain to come up with a way to counteract it, and nothing seems to work. Although it's another game, and that's just not my style.
Eight ball, yes, I do think his non response to my numerous texts and calls was what you said -- to let me know he didn't much appreciate me calling him out on this, and show me he is in control -- basically to punish me. Who knows if that woman is anything to him??? Clearly there is something wrong in our R, maybe this woman is nuthin -- but his behavior now is disgusting and appalling.
Usual course of action for me would be to call him later after work. I know I should wait and see what he does this time. I feel like such a fool.
Yes, you are spot on. Blame shifting, disrespect, read all of those loud and clear. And silent treatment...sheezus, I could write a book on that one. It's his pattern that has repeated throughout this 2.5 year R. Sucks. I have wracked my brain to come up with a way to counteract it, and nothing seems to work. Although it's another game, and that's just not my style.
Eight ball, yes, I do think his non response to my numerous texts and calls was what you said -- to let me know he didn't much appreciate me calling him out on this, and show me he is in control -- basically to punish me. Who knows if that woman is anything to him??? Clearly there is something wrong in our R, maybe this woman is nuthin -- but his behavior now is disgusting and appalling.
Usual course of action for me would be to call him later after work. I know I should wait and see what he does this time. I feel like such a fool.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Hi Wynter,
My RAH of 23yrs has been sober for about 10 months now. We recently moved back in together after I left him about a year ago because I could no longer live with an active alcoholic.
I didn't leave him to change him, or teach him a lesson, I left for me, for my health and happiness. I honestly thought that I would never see him again (except at daughters weddings etc) as he had told me that he was going to drink for the rest of his life.
Of course I was sad, I still loved my AH, but I loved my new home, my new life, the friends I was making, the peace, staying up watching what I wanted to on the TV.
It turned out that I am one of the lucky ones (well I feel lucky), because my AH did reach his bottom, he chose sobriety because he wanted me in his life. He wanted his life back too. I found it a huge compliment that he chose me and our life together, over alcohol.
My RAH has been taking medication and been in therapy now for almost a year. He is extremely respectful, loving, kind and thoughtful, especially of my needs. I have not had one red flag. He allows me to talk about the past when I need to and listens to me, acknowledges my feelings, responds with understanding and takes responsibility where he owns it. He is trying to build on his relationship with our daughters. He is transparent and his actions are totally backing up his words and I couldn't be happier.
Despite being happy and content with my life, I am constantly aware of the need to look after my own interests. I look after my side of the street and leave him to look after his own. I remind myself regularly, where I have come from and what I need to do to stay healthy. ( I had over a year of therapy, visits to Al-anon, book reading and SR to get that way). My boundary is that I will never live with an active alcoholic again and I will leave again, if necessary to put my own health and life first.
I would like to think that if my AH was behaving the way yours is, showing lack of respect, lack of understanding, blame shifting , acting shifty, lying and not taking responsibility, then I would leave again. There is nothing more important to me than me!
My RAH of 23yrs has been sober for about 10 months now. We recently moved back in together after I left him about a year ago because I could no longer live with an active alcoholic.
I didn't leave him to change him, or teach him a lesson, I left for me, for my health and happiness. I honestly thought that I would never see him again (except at daughters weddings etc) as he had told me that he was going to drink for the rest of his life.
Of course I was sad, I still loved my AH, but I loved my new home, my new life, the friends I was making, the peace, staying up watching what I wanted to on the TV.
It turned out that I am one of the lucky ones (well I feel lucky), because my AH did reach his bottom, he chose sobriety because he wanted me in his life. He wanted his life back too. I found it a huge compliment that he chose me and our life together, over alcohol.
My RAH has been taking medication and been in therapy now for almost a year. He is extremely respectful, loving, kind and thoughtful, especially of my needs. I have not had one red flag. He allows me to talk about the past when I need to and listens to me, acknowledges my feelings, responds with understanding and takes responsibility where he owns it. He is trying to build on his relationship with our daughters. He is transparent and his actions are totally backing up his words and I couldn't be happier.
Despite being happy and content with my life, I am constantly aware of the need to look after my own interests. I look after my side of the street and leave him to look after his own. I remind myself regularly, where I have come from and what I need to do to stay healthy. ( I had over a year of therapy, visits to Al-anon, book reading and SR to get that way). My boundary is that I will never live with an active alcoholic again and I will leave again, if necessary to put my own health and life first.
I would like to think that if my AH was behaving the way yours is, showing lack of respect, lack of understanding, blame shifting , acting shifty, lying and not taking responsibility, then I would leave again. There is nothing more important to me than me!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
Hi Eight Ball,
Thanks for all your support and help. RA has been sober for l.5 years now. Goes to meetings regularly, works the program, seems ok on surface, but at times i see a lot of irritability and anger. Irritability directed towards me. I have suggested therapy (yes, I have gone, and also read many self-help books). He is not interested in therapy, believing AA is enough for him. GAH.
I miss the man he used to be, the one I fell in love with. That was before alcohol had its grasp on him. Then when he did fall in the bottle, I stayed and helped him through a long rehab program. I've been his best (and sometimes only friend). He says he is grateful. Who cares? I didn't stay for him to be grateful.
In the last couple months I have poured my heart out, tried talking to him about how I feel, what can we do when we get like this, blah blah blah. He seems receptive, but then theres THIS. I feel like he's a little kid, just doesn't get it. I have also shared that with him. Either he doesn't get it, or he doesn't care to try b/c maybe he doesn't want to be in this. He denies that, but I always am left with a feeling of being needy/clingy and trying too hard. To me it's a power play, and he WINS every time.
Should I back way away from this. My head says I must. My heart wants him to come through and make it all right. WHY CAN'T THEY DO THAT????????
ETA: I'm happy for you. Sounds like you are in a good place right now
Thanks for all your support and help. RA has been sober for l.5 years now. Goes to meetings regularly, works the program, seems ok on surface, but at times i see a lot of irritability and anger. Irritability directed towards me. I have suggested therapy (yes, I have gone, and also read many self-help books). He is not interested in therapy, believing AA is enough for him. GAH.
I miss the man he used to be, the one I fell in love with. That was before alcohol had its grasp on him. Then when he did fall in the bottle, I stayed and helped him through a long rehab program. I've been his best (and sometimes only friend). He says he is grateful. Who cares? I didn't stay for him to be grateful.
In the last couple months I have poured my heart out, tried talking to him about how I feel, what can we do when we get like this, blah blah blah. He seems receptive, but then theres THIS. I feel like he's a little kid, just doesn't get it. I have also shared that with him. Either he doesn't get it, or he doesn't care to try b/c maybe he doesn't want to be in this. He denies that, but I always am left with a feeling of being needy/clingy and trying too hard. To me it's a power play, and he WINS every time.
Should I back way away from this. My head says I must. My heart wants him to come through and make it all right. WHY CAN'T THEY DO THAT????????
ETA: I'm happy for you. Sounds like you are in a good place right now
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Hi wynter, replied above before reading your next thread.
My alcoholic was verbally abusive for all of our 23yrs married. (not constant but during confrontations about his drinking etc). Towards the end he got more controlling and more passive aggressive. We both did the silent treatment for days on end.
Leaving him was hard but it was the best thing that I have ever done. A long spell of therapy and SR got me to a place where I really value myself, the way I live my life, the way I work. I wouldn't have anything less than respect and I am always on the look out for me 'falling' for his negative alcoholic behaviour again and allowing the unacceptable to continue.
When I found SR, I was a complete mess. I had a severe stress cough, filled with anxiety and panic, crying on the way home from work and in the shower and I was trying to live amicably with someone I loved, who drank everyday. The majority of the time my active AH was good. I felt like we had a great life, a history together, our daughters and a family. I got stuck for a long time on the 'most of the time' and eventually realised that the 'little' time that was bad, was enough to keep me feeling sick.
You RA is not drinking but is still only being a good person 'most of the time'. I got to the point that I dont think that I could do that again. There is no way that I ever want to feel upset, or disrespected, or stressed or sick in a marriage. I felt shut down a lot during my marriage, unable to express myself and it wasn't a very nice feeling. You should be feeling safe enough to be able to discuss past hurts and feel validated. If your RA isn't willing to do more work on himself and he just isn't getting it, then he may never get it.
As I said before, you need to put yourself first, get healthy and work out what YOU want out of life.
My alcoholic was verbally abusive for all of our 23yrs married. (not constant but during confrontations about his drinking etc). Towards the end he got more controlling and more passive aggressive. We both did the silent treatment for days on end.
Leaving him was hard but it was the best thing that I have ever done. A long spell of therapy and SR got me to a place where I really value myself, the way I live my life, the way I work. I wouldn't have anything less than respect and I am always on the look out for me 'falling' for his negative alcoholic behaviour again and allowing the unacceptable to continue.
When I found SR, I was a complete mess. I had a severe stress cough, filled with anxiety and panic, crying on the way home from work and in the shower and I was trying to live amicably with someone I loved, who drank everyday. The majority of the time my active AH was good. I felt like we had a great life, a history together, our daughters and a family. I got stuck for a long time on the 'most of the time' and eventually realised that the 'little' time that was bad, was enough to keep me feeling sick.
You RA is not drinking but is still only being a good person 'most of the time'. I got to the point that I dont think that I could do that again. There is no way that I ever want to feel upset, or disrespected, or stressed or sick in a marriage. I felt shut down a lot during my marriage, unable to express myself and it wasn't a very nice feeling. You should be feeling safe enough to be able to discuss past hurts and feel validated. If your RA isn't willing to do more work on himself and he just isn't getting it, then he may never get it.
As I said before, you need to put yourself first, get healthy and work out what YOU want out of life.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by wynter 
Dropping expectations is powerful, will agree, but when it's an unequal partnership, then IMO you are setting yourself up for more hurts and self-destruction.
I give, give, give. What about MY needs?
I give, give, give. What about MY needs?
How is this helping your recovery?
I agree, that unequal relationships set you up for hurt. So, why be involved in a relationship with someone that does not treat you with respect as an equal partner in life?
I decided that I am looking for the following qualities in a relationship partner:
Someone who is open, honest, forth-right and treats me with respect as an equal partner in life.
Then I held that standard up to the AH in my life, and he did not meet those standards - (he came close while he attempted sobriety with a program), but he eventually went back to the bottle.
Then I held that standard up to the men I tried dating since my divorce. It was my standard and what I was willing to accept - "almost", "close enough" and "shows potential" did not meet the standard. Therefore, I did not keep dating those men.
Now I have a relationship with a partner who is open, honest, forth-right and treats me with respect as an equal partner in life. This is how I treat him as well.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
'THIS IS WHO HE IS. THIS IS IT.' You said it too well. THANK YOU. I can't change it, and I can't live this way. Somethings gotta give. He doesn't think it's HIM. A game I can't afford to play b/c it is so heartbreaking. Stalemate. No one wins.
If I walk, he will do like others on these threads and not look back or come back. I know it. It's my biggest fear, one I need to face.
If I walk, he will do like others on these threads and not look back or come back. I know it. It's my biggest fear, one I need to face.
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Posts: 90
I guess I am still waiting/hoping that the man I used to know, the one who made me laugh, who made me feel beautiful and cherished, the one who was my best friend, is there somewhere behind all this utter crap that is left.
He is so different now. I don't know if the R has reached an end, and that is why, or if I am only now seeing the real him, and as you said, Anvill, that is all there is. Recovery has changed him. We don't have the easy R we used to have. I watch what I say, and walk on eggshells quite a bit to smooth the rough edges.
I used to think he was my soulmate. We were so much alike, had so much in common to grow from. It must not have meant the same to him or he wouldn't act like this.
Everyone's wise words are much appreciated.
He is so different now. I don't know if the R has reached an end, and that is why, or if I am only now seeing the real him, and as you said, Anvill, that is all there is. Recovery has changed him. We don't have the easy R we used to have. I watch what I say, and walk on eggshells quite a bit to smooth the rough edges.
I used to think he was my soulmate. We were so much alike, had so much in common to grow from. It must not have meant the same to him or he wouldn't act like this.
Everyone's wise words are much appreciated.
Chaotically Peaceful
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A state of peace
Posts: 322
Originally Posted by wynter
Still, I want him to make it right.
People do what they want to do. They might AGREE to do what you want sometimes, but whatever they do after that is what they want. And in the words of Maya Angelou - when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
'When someone shows you who they are, believe them." Thank you for reminding me. I have cherished that quote for many years, refer back to it often. It pretty much says it all now, doesn't it? It's my expectations that keep getting in the way...and I'm doing it to myself.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by anvilhead
don't buy a grapefruit if you really want a chocolate chip cookie. and then get mad at the grapefruit for not being what you want.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by dollydo
If you want your needs met...you will have to find another man...
I need physical security.
I took the first step towards providing that by leaving AXH.
I can take additional steps by setting up a safety plan, installing better locks, looking into a security system...
I need financial security.I am in control of the finances for DS and I now.
I can treat any child support payments I might get as treat or extra savings money. I do not count on them to meet my budget.
I need to feel loved.I AM loved, by my family, my son, and most importantly, I'm learning to like and love myself again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
Dollydo,
yes, I have sickeningly come to that realization. Yes, I can take care of myself in most ways, and I do have a family that loves me. Still...heart is broken and I am having a hard time dealing with this.
Have not heard from him all day. I did send another text asking him why he was doing this. I know, should have refrained. If nothing else, have to keep my dignity and self-respect.
He has done this before, varying degrees. I should be used to it. Each time, though, it hurts a little more than the last time.
Thought I was stronger. Games games and more games. I know I have to stop reacting, but it's hard.
This silent treatment is slowly killing me.
yes, I have sickeningly come to that realization. Yes, I can take care of myself in most ways, and I do have a family that loves me. Still...heart is broken and I am having a hard time dealing with this.
Have not heard from him all day. I did send another text asking him why he was doing this. I know, should have refrained. If nothing else, have to keep my dignity and self-respect.
He has done this before, varying degrees. I should be used to it. Each time, though, it hurts a little more than the last time.
Thought I was stronger. Games games and more games. I know I have to stop reacting, but it's hard.
This silent treatment is slowly killing me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Wynter,
I have tried to piece together your relationship with your RA... I think the history is you met him while he was in a sober period, you met and fell in love with this wonderful, great guy, he relasped at some point, went to inhouse treatment for 7 mos, and has now been sober 1.5 years and attending AA?
What was his history before you met (we learn how to have healthy relationships from watching them as his children)... what kind of relationships does he have with his family? Close, distant?
How long did you know Prince Charming before his relapse?
In my own experience (have this tshirt myself) my sweet, darling, wonderful XA was all that and a box a chocolates before he relapsed. I kept obsessing on rescuing Mr. Wonderful from the horrible Mr. Hyde who was only unleashed by my mortal enemy... the poisonous Mr. Alcohol.
What I refused to consider is that alcohol had nothing to do with it... My XA was a very clever and opportunistic A who knows how to chameleon into whatever he thinks his target wants... he became Mr. Perfect because I constantly blabbed about what was important to me. He mirrored what I was looking for in a mate (spiritual, generous, loving, high character in addition to his good looks and incredible charm).
I thought I was falling for the real guy... his core being and values... but honestly now I am not so sure whether he is at his center Mr. Hyde. He is relapsed now and his alcohol soaked brain and addictive voice are not someone I ever knew before... decidedly evil.
We fall in love with potential... with the man we fantasize our A is going to be AGAIN once they slay the alcoholic dragon... and if they don't do it we will do it for them... or so we think.
But were they ever that wonderful guy.... really? Or are we conning ourselves?
So what are the STRONG evidences that this man is really the wonderful guy you think he was or has the potential to become again (never fall in love with potential).
Pretend he is applying for a job with you for a lifetime and he were to write a resume with all of his jobs, relationships in this application. Every important person in his life were to write a resume to either encourage to hitch your wagon to his star or to warn you off.
What would it say... really... about him? Unvarnished reality and not pie in the sky codie whitewashing for him?
I am reminded of a signature someone had on here that said:
"You can wring the alcohol out of an asshat and all you have left is a sober asshat"...
AA has some similar ideas about about people who are just not great folk to begin with and choose not to enter into real recovery which is a spiritual program of psychic change.
So if someone you thought was great is sober but is still moody, distant, rude, ugly, passive agressive then chances are he is not in "real recovery" and is just attending meetings. That is just geography.
Maybe he was never Prince Charming at all and deserves an academy award for the honeymoon season... time reveal all.
Hope this helps... the truth hurts but for a season but then we are freed from our self imposed cages and gain some rational objectivity about our choices and WHY we do them.
You are an adult child of an A... so am I. Counseling, Alanon (have you done this yet?) and this website changed my life. It is good now... very good and getting better every day!
I have tried to piece together your relationship with your RA... I think the history is you met him while he was in a sober period, you met and fell in love with this wonderful, great guy, he relasped at some point, went to inhouse treatment for 7 mos, and has now been sober 1.5 years and attending AA?
What was his history before you met (we learn how to have healthy relationships from watching them as his children)... what kind of relationships does he have with his family? Close, distant?
How long did you know Prince Charming before his relapse?
In my own experience (have this tshirt myself) my sweet, darling, wonderful XA was all that and a box a chocolates before he relapsed. I kept obsessing on rescuing Mr. Wonderful from the horrible Mr. Hyde who was only unleashed by my mortal enemy... the poisonous Mr. Alcohol.
What I refused to consider is that alcohol had nothing to do with it... My XA was a very clever and opportunistic A who knows how to chameleon into whatever he thinks his target wants... he became Mr. Perfect because I constantly blabbed about what was important to me. He mirrored what I was looking for in a mate (spiritual, generous, loving, high character in addition to his good looks and incredible charm).
I thought I was falling for the real guy... his core being and values... but honestly now I am not so sure whether he is at his center Mr. Hyde. He is relapsed now and his alcohol soaked brain and addictive voice are not someone I ever knew before... decidedly evil.
We fall in love with potential... with the man we fantasize our A is going to be AGAIN once they slay the alcoholic dragon... and if they don't do it we will do it for them... or so we think.
But were they ever that wonderful guy.... really? Or are we conning ourselves?
So what are the STRONG evidences that this man is really the wonderful guy you think he was or has the potential to become again (never fall in love with potential).
Pretend he is applying for a job with you for a lifetime and he were to write a resume with all of his jobs, relationships in this application. Every important person in his life were to write a resume to either encourage to hitch your wagon to his star or to warn you off.
What would it say... really... about him? Unvarnished reality and not pie in the sky codie whitewashing for him?
I am reminded of a signature someone had on here that said:
"You can wring the alcohol out of an asshat and all you have left is a sober asshat"...
AA has some similar ideas about about people who are just not great folk to begin with and choose not to enter into real recovery which is a spiritual program of psychic change.
So if someone you thought was great is sober but is still moody, distant, rude, ugly, passive agressive then chances are he is not in "real recovery" and is just attending meetings. That is just geography.
Maybe he was never Prince Charming at all and deserves an academy award for the honeymoon season... time reveal all.
Hope this helps... the truth hurts but for a season but then we are freed from our self imposed cages and gain some rational objectivity about our choices and WHY we do them.
You are an adult child of an A... so am I. Counseling, Alanon (have you done this yet?) and this website changed my life. It is good now... very good and getting better every day!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
Hopeworks,
Thank you for a heartfelt response. I cried while reading it, as it was all I knew but can't quite deal with yet.
I met RA when he was as I thought a 'normie' -- not in AA, but social drinking. Or so I thought. He soon escalated into a full blown A, as he went through a horrible divorce soon after we met. From there he lost his job. Then rehab. All in all I stayed, b/c I did like the man I thought I knew -- kind, sweet, spiritual, good-hearted in all aspects.
After rehab he was much more serious and introspective. There were many walls. Truth be told, I liked him much more when he drank...retrospect, I should have walked away while he was in rehab. Was in my own little fantasy of how things would be when he left rehab.
He is semi-close to his sons, but not speaking to ex. A few friends still are around. Now he chooses his friends from AA -- men and women.
He needs counseling, but will not go. Does practice spirituality (one of the things i loved about him ), and meditates, does yoga with me. His earthiness and openess was a magnet for me.
I do still love him, but if I'm honest i don't much like the man he is right now. You are right, I still hang on to the stupid thought that other sweet man will emerge again one day. When though? And how long do I wait, especially when I am feeling disrespected and unloved nowadays. and haven't a clue what in the frick happened that I have falled from grace in his eyes. He is not saying either.
Yes, I am aware there isn't anything I can do. You are right, maybe who I fell in love with was not the real him. This may be it. This arrogant narcissistic assclown who thinks he is god's gift to women. It quite probably was all a delusion.
At this point I am wavering as to how to approach things. Don't know if i should wait and see what he will do, if he will reach out to me. Or do my usual and try to smooth things out (the codie in me...yes). He knows how I usually react, so maybe I need to sit this one out. I am guessing he is angry at me for not trusting him...wow, really?? (ex did this same stuff...) Think I hit a nerve. Still, his behavior is disgusting, and I should not make excuses for it. It is devaluing, and if I allow it to continue, it is the hat I wear.
He should be accountable, don't you think? But will he? And what to do in the meantime...I know, nothing. i can't keep making it right. But if we are over, then I need to know for sure so I can move on. I am not certain where things are with his silence, which continues. I need to find peace somehow.
thanks for listening.
Thank you for a heartfelt response. I cried while reading it, as it was all I knew but can't quite deal with yet.
I met RA when he was as I thought a 'normie' -- not in AA, but social drinking. Or so I thought. He soon escalated into a full blown A, as he went through a horrible divorce soon after we met. From there he lost his job. Then rehab. All in all I stayed, b/c I did like the man I thought I knew -- kind, sweet, spiritual, good-hearted in all aspects.
After rehab he was much more serious and introspective. There were many walls. Truth be told, I liked him much more when he drank...retrospect, I should have walked away while he was in rehab. Was in my own little fantasy of how things would be when he left rehab.
He is semi-close to his sons, but not speaking to ex. A few friends still are around. Now he chooses his friends from AA -- men and women.
He needs counseling, but will not go. Does practice spirituality (one of the things i loved about him ), and meditates, does yoga with me. His earthiness and openess was a magnet for me.
I do still love him, but if I'm honest i don't much like the man he is right now. You are right, I still hang on to the stupid thought that other sweet man will emerge again one day. When though? And how long do I wait, especially when I am feeling disrespected and unloved nowadays. and haven't a clue what in the frick happened that I have falled from grace in his eyes. He is not saying either.
Yes, I am aware there isn't anything I can do. You are right, maybe who I fell in love with was not the real him. This may be it. This arrogant narcissistic assclown who thinks he is god's gift to women. It quite probably was all a delusion.
At this point I am wavering as to how to approach things. Don't know if i should wait and see what he will do, if he will reach out to me. Or do my usual and try to smooth things out (the codie in me...yes). He knows how I usually react, so maybe I need to sit this one out. I am guessing he is angry at me for not trusting him...wow, really?? (ex did this same stuff...) Think I hit a nerve. Still, his behavior is disgusting, and I should not make excuses for it. It is devaluing, and if I allow it to continue, it is the hat I wear.
He should be accountable, don't you think? But will he? And what to do in the meantime...I know, nothing. i can't keep making it right. But if we are over, then I need to know for sure so I can move on. I am not certain where things are with his silence, which continues. I need to find peace somehow.
thanks for listening.
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