The real truth about suboxone
NAIOU
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Last house on the block.
Posts: 359
The real truth about suboxone
What I have learned about Suboxone after during 6 months of research. At one time buprenorphine (and buprenex) were used for pain in the US. It was not strong enough for US pain and the US quit using it 25 years ago. It is still used in the UK. The UK found out that it was a great detox drug. The UK had such good luck with it that it was sent to the US as a detox drug. A drug company latched on to it and with no R&D put it out as Suboxone with opiate blocker (naloxone) and Buprenex a few years ago. Why Suboxone warks so well for detox it is a antaginist and a antiantaginist. What this means is goes into your body and does its job and then leaves your body very fast. That alone makes it a good detox drug. It was never meant to be a maintenance drug. It is just another opiate drug. This is some of what I have learned about it. Love and Respect Logo
__________________
The Message Is Hope. The Promise Is Freedom.
__________________
The Message Is Hope. The Promise Is Freedom.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 13
Well, you have learned wrong. Buprenorphine is still used for pain in the US and in many other countries. It started to be used for detox and maintenance under the brand name Subutex in Europe in the 90's and is still widely used for those purposes there. There were several trials in the US during the 90's using Buprenex as a maintenance drug too. But when it came to approving it to be used to treat addiction there were concerns that Subutex would end up on the street being used recreationally so the manufacturer of Subutex added naloxone to it and called it Suboxone to deal with the government's concerns.
There is no such thing as an "antiaginist". Naloxone is an antagonist and buprenorphine is a partial agonist. An agonist is a drug that attaches to the opiate receptors in the brain and activates them which gives you an effect such as pain relief or the high you get from opioids. An antagonist also attaches to the receptors but it doesn't activate them. It just fills them so that nothing else can attach and it also kicks other things off the receptors which is why Naloxone is used to treat opiate overdoses. Buprenorphine is somewhere in between these two. It will also kick other opiates off the receptors and fill them just like an antagonist but it will also active the receptors but how much they can active the receptors is limited.
The fact that Suboxone contains an antagonist and a partial agonist does not mean that it comes into the body, does its job and leaves fast. In fact it has nothing to do with that. Buprenorphine actually has a pretty long half life which is why it can be used just once a day. So it doesn't leave your body very fast at all.
A lot of people believe that taking Suboxone is better than taking Subutex because it contains Naloxone which they think help them. That's not really true. When you take Suboxone orally, as you're supposed to, the naloxone is inactive. Taken orally Suboxone is no different than Subutex because the only thing ending up in your blood stream with both drugs is the buprenorphine. Naloxone is not absorbed into the blood stream through the mucus membranes in your mouth the way the buprenorphine does. It is also not absorbed into your blood stream if you swallow it because it's broken down completely by the liver. To get an effect from the Naloxone you have to inject it directly into the blood stream.
So, supposedly, Suboxone contains naloxone because it's supposed to stop you from injecting your Suboxone. If you do the naloxone is supposed to put you into instant withdrawal. It's really just a marketing trick though, used to satisfy the fears of the government over diversion issues. Fact is that the naloxone is completely pointless, injected or not. Because buprenorphine is a partial antagonist it will act just like naloxone when you inject it. It will knock other opiates off the brain receptors and put you into instant precipitated withdrawal just like naloxone does. In fact bupe binds tighter to the recceptrs than naloxone does so it should override the effects of the naloxone. Either way naloxone only last for a very short time anyway.
The issue with precipitated withdrawal isn't a problem for everyone though, regardless of whether it's caused by naloxone or the bupe itself. If a heroin addict who is physically dependent on heroin would take Suboxone, injected or orally, he would be very sorry because the heroin will be kicked out of his brain and he will go into instant withdrawal which is a horrible experience. But if someone who is not dependent on any opiate or is only dependent on bupe injects Suboxone the bupe have nothing to kick off and will instead activate the receptors and make you high. Since the bupe has a higher affinity than the naloxone the naloxone isn't going to be able to do anything. So, basically, the naloxone is a pointless ingredient that is only there for political reasons.
So, THAT'S the truth of Suboxone. It is very useful as a detox drug but it was always meant to be a maintenance drug too and it was approved as such in 2002 in the US. It was designed as a maintenance drug. It was studies and evaluated as a maintenance drug and it was approved as one. It works because it's an opioid with some very special properties that removes the cravings and desire to get high. It's not the inability to get off drugs that makes you an addict. It's not getting on again and that's what Suboxone helps with.
There is no such thing as an "antiaginist". Naloxone is an antagonist and buprenorphine is a partial agonist. An agonist is a drug that attaches to the opiate receptors in the brain and activates them which gives you an effect such as pain relief or the high you get from opioids. An antagonist also attaches to the receptors but it doesn't activate them. It just fills them so that nothing else can attach and it also kicks other things off the receptors which is why Naloxone is used to treat opiate overdoses. Buprenorphine is somewhere in between these two. It will also kick other opiates off the receptors and fill them just like an antagonist but it will also active the receptors but how much they can active the receptors is limited.
The fact that Suboxone contains an antagonist and a partial agonist does not mean that it comes into the body, does its job and leaves fast. In fact it has nothing to do with that. Buprenorphine actually has a pretty long half life which is why it can be used just once a day. So it doesn't leave your body very fast at all.
A lot of people believe that taking Suboxone is better than taking Subutex because it contains Naloxone which they think help them. That's not really true. When you take Suboxone orally, as you're supposed to, the naloxone is inactive. Taken orally Suboxone is no different than Subutex because the only thing ending up in your blood stream with both drugs is the buprenorphine. Naloxone is not absorbed into the blood stream through the mucus membranes in your mouth the way the buprenorphine does. It is also not absorbed into your blood stream if you swallow it because it's broken down completely by the liver. To get an effect from the Naloxone you have to inject it directly into the blood stream.
So, supposedly, Suboxone contains naloxone because it's supposed to stop you from injecting your Suboxone. If you do the naloxone is supposed to put you into instant withdrawal. It's really just a marketing trick though, used to satisfy the fears of the government over diversion issues. Fact is that the naloxone is completely pointless, injected or not. Because buprenorphine is a partial antagonist it will act just like naloxone when you inject it. It will knock other opiates off the brain receptors and put you into instant precipitated withdrawal just like naloxone does. In fact bupe binds tighter to the recceptrs than naloxone does so it should override the effects of the naloxone. Either way naloxone only last for a very short time anyway.
The issue with precipitated withdrawal isn't a problem for everyone though, regardless of whether it's caused by naloxone or the bupe itself. If a heroin addict who is physically dependent on heroin would take Suboxone, injected or orally, he would be very sorry because the heroin will be kicked out of his brain and he will go into instant withdrawal which is a horrible experience. But if someone who is not dependent on any opiate or is only dependent on bupe injects Suboxone the bupe have nothing to kick off and will instead activate the receptors and make you high. Since the bupe has a higher affinity than the naloxone the naloxone isn't going to be able to do anything. So, basically, the naloxone is a pointless ingredient that is only there for political reasons.
So, THAT'S the truth of Suboxone. It is very useful as a detox drug but it was always meant to be a maintenance drug too and it was approved as such in 2002 in the US. It was designed as a maintenance drug. It was studies and evaluated as a maintenance drug and it was approved as one. It works because it's an opioid with some very special properties that removes the cravings and desire to get high. It's not the inability to get off drugs that makes you an addict. It's not getting on again and that's what Suboxone helps with.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
Thanks for that Zig! Before I even read the post I saw "THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT SUBOXONE" and thought here we go. It seems like us addicts often take our personal experience OR the opinion of a few people as fact. Just because I had one experience with something does not mean everyone will have the same thing. It is a very egotistical way to view things. Sorry Logo not trying to bash on you I am guilty of this very same thing. There is a lot of misinformation being spread which is a big reason for a forum rule on medical advice.
It is fine sharing ones opinion or experience, but lets leave it at that and not say "THE REAL TRUTH" about anything. That might be your truth, but it is not necessarily the real truth or everyone's truth. Plenty of people have been helped by suboxone both as a detox drug and a maintenance drug. Same goes for methadone (although I admit I seem to hear many more bad experiences than good ones).
Sorry I better climb down off my soapbox now. Please return to your normal programming. Have a great day everyone!
It is fine sharing ones opinion or experience, but lets leave it at that and not say "THE REAL TRUTH" about anything. That might be your truth, but it is not necessarily the real truth or everyone's truth. Plenty of people have been helped by suboxone both as a detox drug and a maintenance drug. Same goes for methadone (although I admit I seem to hear many more bad experiences than good ones).
Sorry I better climb down off my soapbox now. Please return to your normal programming. Have a great day everyone!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
