Plath

I've been getting in touch with members of my family who I still have some resentment (and negative expectations) for.

What I've been realizing, to my surprise, is that these people (mostly my extended family and my step-mother) seem to have changed--some dramatically--for the better, and that my assumptions of what/how they think, etc., have been off base.

In the case of my step-mother, it is obvious to me that she has changed tremendously over the years, and she has, either indirectly with me or confidingly with other relatives, expressed regret for how she treated me when I was a kid (cutting me out of their lives, etc.).

We spent Thanksgiving with them in 2008, and as my husband and I were leaving, she gave me a hug with tears in her eyes and told me that I had turned into a fine young lady. I should have known that things were changing, but it took me a long time to really allow that to sink in.

Last weekend, her and my dad were supposed to come visit us and meet their grandson for the first time, but as per usual, called to cancel at the last minute because their dog sitter never showed up.

Initially, I was infuriated, assuming that my step-mom had just decided that she didn't want to make the trip, etc.
So I called my dad, and expressed (again) to him that I know I've already said it, but it hurts so much to have him not be an active part in my life. I tried not to cry, but I did a little bit anyway, and asked him if it would just be easier if we came to visit them.

He asked me if we wanted to come and stay with them that weekend, since they couldn't come up to see us, and although it was spur of the moment, I figured if we didn't do it, then we would never get the ball rolling.
But I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be an inconvenience to my step-mom, so I asked him to make sure she didn't mind the three of us staying for the weekend.

To my surprise, she got on the phone, told me how much they both love me, and that it would be great if we came down for the weekend...and it was sincere. So we did, and we had a really nice time. She was easy to talk to, enjoyable, and it was great.

So, there goes that resentment. It doesn't change my childhood, but it really does melt away any bad feelings that I had about her.

The same thing with my extended family. Sometimes when I call them, I think that maybe they're really busy with the kids and a lot going on, but I take it personally and go off on my own mental tangent about how they don't care about me, etc.
Then the next time that I talk to them and they're not busy and stressed out because they're making cookies with three little girls, the conversation is perfectly enjoyable and fine, and I question whether I'm just holding onto old resentments for things that have been dead for a long time, I maybe just haven't realized it...

Sometimes it's hard to tell, especially with my extended family.
But I'm beyond grateful for my step-mom and how she's grown into a really enjoyable, genuine woman. She was only 19 or 20 when my dad met her, so I suppose she had a lot of insecurities to overcome herself.

Now...if only I could stop myself from feeling as though I have to talk about all of the psychological issues I'm sorting out from my childhood whenever I go to visit them. I'm used to doing that with my dad, and with people I know from other 12 step groups, so it's almost impossible for me to demonstrate basic social decorum around people, in the sense that I'm always talking about psychoanalyzing everything.

It's embarrassing, because I do it all the time, in all sorts of scenarios. Not necessarily when I'm out with friends (which doesn't happen very often), but far more often than is probably comfortable for other people, whether or not we're related.

Well...that's what has been going on for me lately, anyway. I am realizing/wondering about how valid my old resentments are, as I know first hand that people can change...but then again, I also know that dysfunctional people can go back and forth, so I'm never entirely sure what to make of my extended family.

And I'm wishing that I didn't feel the need to offer up "too much information" about my process of sorting out all of my issues and behaviors when I'm around people who just want to talk about basic, day to day life stuff. I suppose that's because working on my ACA issues IS my basic day to day stuff (*sigh*).

Just thought I would share on here, as I took a few days' hiatus after visiting my dad, but I'm glad we made the drive (only a couple of hours), and I know that he and my step-mom were really genuinely happy to have us over.

...And, when I met their dog I realized that she is actually quite old for a dog, and they would need a dog sitter in order to go anywhere, so that felt a little better as well, as if to confirm that they weren't just making things up to avoid visiting us.

Willybluedog

I am glad you made the trip with your eyes, ears, and heart open, that is wonderful progress on your part, I am so very proud of you.

I know what you mean though about dysfunctional people veering back and forth, I am constantly waiting for them to yell "surprise, I'm still a jerk!"

I believe that these people have no idea how deeply they have wounded us, they are like that bully in school who tormented you from Kindergarten to graduation, 30 years later you are still mad about it and they don't even remember your name.

The problem is how to share this with them, ideally it would be in a controlled environment like a therapists office, of course the person would have to also live somewhere other than the land of denial for this to be successful.

If that cannot happen I belive the next best thing is to write them a letter and then burn it, with the hope of achieving forgiveness, I am definitely not there yet with some folks, and I don't know if I will ever get there.

But again, I am so glad that you could do this, please be kind to yourself, you built up thick skin over many years to protect yourself from them, if it takes time to shed it, well it just does.

Big hugs,

Bill

Plath

Thanks, Bill.

I'm still laughing at the "Surprise, I'm still a jerk!" comment. That is something I've come to expect primarily from my mom and step-dad (although my step-dad tends to be a jerk at least about ninety percent of the time, so it's not much of a surprise, hahah).

Other members of my family...well, as I've mentioned in other posts, my mom seems to have carried a lot of the brunt of the abuse in their family, so the rest of them could possibly be trusted a bit more...we'll see, eh?

We're going over to visit them for my birthday next weekend, and we have to stay with my aunt and her husband, as my mom and step-dad insist on keeping a St. Bernard inside their home, and that just doesn't seem super hygienic for my son to be crawling around in dog drool, so...

I'm hoping for the best with my aunt as well as my mother, although I have higher hopes for my aunt and mom than I do for their husbands to conduct themselves within reason. And I never know really what to expect from my mom, but she's getting better (for the most part).

We're considering renting my mom and step-dad's empty house that they just moved out of in order to move into my grandma's old house, so that they don't have to continue paying their mortgage out of their savings.

Hopefully things will continue on a positive track, but I try not to be surprised when my mom flips to the other side of the coin and does the "Surprise!" routine.

Kialua

Wow, glad to hear you had a good time and things are looking up. Yes people do change, and we change. As far as saying too much to people maybe you could look into setting boundaries for yourself, only allow certain people to hear you out and most not. Have you ever read "Boundaries' series by Cloud/Townsend? It's a Christian based book but has a lot of insight in setting boundaries.

Sounds like a good solution for your housing too. Things are looking up!

Plath

Thanks, Kialua!

Yes, it does seem like an ideal solution to our cramped living quarters, although my husband now swears that he has let go of his obsession with buying a house right now (it just doesn't seem to be working out, and I have learned personally over the years that if I keep pushing for something that is not working, and it takes more effort and energy than it seems to be worth, it's just not meant to happen).

He claims that he has accepted that whatever happens with our living arrangement is in God's hands (or however a person wishes to word that line of thought), but I am a bit skeptical, as he has said something to that effect before, and continued to freak out over the lack of space.

So...hopefully it will work out for us to rent my mom's house (they have a rental agency handling it right now, and someone may come in and want to rent it before we can get in there), and if it doesn't...well, hopefully my husband can come to terms with our temporary arrangement.



I think that, if we end up having to stay here throughout our lease (which is technically over in July, although they would probably have it rented out before then, thus allowing us to get out of the lease), it will be a lot easier as the weather warms up and we're able to get outside a bit more.
Being stuck in a cramped apartment in the winter time definitely has its drawbacks, especially since my husband rarely has a moment to himself.

It's not so bad for me, I'm just home with the baby during the day, and I have my down time when he takes a nap.

So, hoping for the best and leaving it up to my Higher Power (and hoping that my husband will continue to do the same).

Thanks for the book recommendation, I will look for that on Amazon!

Plath

Also, thanks for the advice about setting boundaries for myself with others. It's really easy for me to talk to certain people about such personal things, but it's become the "norm" for me, and I'm realizing that it's just not that way for everyone, and it can make things a bit awkward...and then I feel ashamed, and I just want to dig a hole to crawl into.

Note to self: People who do not want to hear about my psychoanalysis of my childhood = in-laws, extended family, coworkers, acquaintances...

Yes, that seems like a good foundation to start from, heh.
I don't always do it so much with coworkers or acquaintances, but I suppose that I work under the assumption that most people have experienced some form of dysfunction in their lives, and I end up at least making some sort of passing remark alluding to something or other that I could just as well keep to myself (and would no doubt feel better about it if I did).

I think that going to some of the 12 step meetings that I went to, and some of my own personal history has made me (as someone else pointed out about themselves in another thread) almost honest to a fault...as if, by "withholding" such personal information about myself that I'm not giving people a real picture of who I am.
But then, not everyone really needs to see that whole picture, I guess.
I think this is a somewhat new concept for me, I'll have to think on this for a while so that I can be more aware of it.

So far so good with my husband and the house thing. He seems to have accepted things for however they're going to be for now, which I am SO grateful for!

Thanks again, everyone.

Kialua

Well I found I had to watch myself, from saying too much for most people. I would relate some fact from my life and then try to joke about it, but most people I told would just stare at me in frightened amazement. Most people don't want to hear about my wounded past because that puts them in the position of having to care, offer sympathy, fix me or wonder if I am ready to freak out sometime soon from ptds. Reminds me of the character on News Radio, an older show with Phil Hartman who played Bill McNeal. He came from a horrid childhood and would refer to it at the most awkward times. From Wikepedia:
"A running joke in the show has Bill describing seemingly painful or scarring childhood memories with an air of nostalgia, often wistfully saying, "good times, good times"."

That would make me laugh so hard, "Ahhh, good times, good times..."

But that is what I like about this forum, no one is too freaked out with my past and I'm not freaked out with theirs.

Plath

That made me laugh, I LOVE News Radio, and I watch all the old shows on Hulu if and when it's available.

Yes, bless this forum for being such a supportive, safe place. It does actually help me to refrain from talking to people about my experiences, even if it's just a casual remark.

Speaking of funny TV shows, I often compare my mom to the mother figure on the show "Malcom In the Middle", or George Costanza's mom on Seinfeld...or, most accurately, the mom on the show Arrested Development. Except worse, of course, but I am usually able to edit out that part when called for.

I always find it odd and/or strange when I *know* that someone has come from a highly dysfunctional childhood (like my mother in-law or my aunt) but they seem to have little to no interest in talking about such things.

I guess for some people it just touches on wounds that aren't completely healed, or a part of their lives that they feel they have left behind, like my aunt.

Or, as you say, for others it may just be that awkward feeling of showing empathy for someone on a fairly personal level...as if ninety percent of the population hasn't experienced some level of dysfunction in their lives?? But then, maybe that's just my distorted concept of reality...hehhm.



Well anyway, it's just a good idea to share the personal stuff where it belongs, and with people I will not walk away from feeling like I want to hide inside of my jacket or a hole in the ground.

It can make social interactions difficult for me these days, as I feel that everything else seems so superficial right now, but I am guessing that will pass.
If I have to be somewhat anorexic in the friend department for now, I'm just so grateful to have all of you on here as my friends, even through cyber space, hahah.

Plath

Hrmph...double post.

Kialua

Yikes, I hope it's not 90% of the population, or maybe if it is that explains why they can't be supportive, because they are lost in their own angst or flat out denial to cope. At least we are working on it here. Well best to find "safe" people to discuss it with. I used to let out a story or two just to judge what kind of person someone was. ha ha, my mean streak. But in general I am more selective and wait until a trust is established and I know they can handle it.

neferkamichael

Plath I didn't speak to my oldest brother for 26 years. Regretably, it took our younger brother to pass away to make it happen. Never thought for a second he had problems just like most of us do. I feel like a fool for behaving the way I did. The bottom line reason I want to get rid of anger, resentment, whatever, is because it is a waste of my time, let alone it hurts people and makes them hate and resent me too.

bluebelle

My family does talk about it some. Over the years, my AM's famliy has seen more and more of her behavior. They realize now that things were much worse for me as a kid than they realized. Or, they are just a little less in denial. They acknolwedge how hard it must have been for me when I was growing up. I guess that helps to have some validation. Maybe that's what you are wanting?

I have had a few conversations with my AF's family, too. In a similar way, I think it helps to have some validation.

It all gives me kind of a better sense of my family. Although, it doesn't really help me feel better. I still have the same problems with depression/anxiety either way. I think the depression/anxiety issues are something that I have to work on my own. I don't know that talking out the situations with my family has changed that. Does that make any sense? At the end of the day, I still have to deal with myself. LOL

In terms of non-family members, I don't talk about it very much. My close friends know the situation, but I don't want to stress them out with the details. The only person that I give all the details to is my psychiatrist. I figure she gets paid to listen to that stuff.

When I was younger, I pretty much didn't talk to anybody about these issues. I think I was too closed off from the rest of the world. I have slowly learned how to share things. I'm trying to find a balance between being open with people and with sharing too much.

Plath

Validation must be a part of it, as I never really feel like I get enough. I definitely don't get it enough from my mother, my aunt or my mother in-law, even though my MIL's mother was basically exactly like my mom.

I do get validation from my father, and to a degree from my husband, but mostly I get it on here...and I think that, while we're still figuring things out, we want it the most from our families.

I think it's also just always at the forefront of my mind, too, and I work in areas where analyzing people is just a part of what we do at work, so I get used to talking that way, and then it starts to bleed into the "too much information" scenario.

Another part of the equation is that I really need to talk about things with others (the way that we do here), mull it over a lot for myself, and sometimes it's almost like I have to give voice to what I'm thinking about in order to make sense of it for myself.
I don't usually do this with random people like coworkers or acquaintances, but if a person is around me for long enough, I will start talking about some of the issues that I'm working on more openly than I usually feel okay about after I've said it.


But yeah, the need for validation is so strong for me, it's like a desperation. Like the need for acceptance. I never got either, so I guess I'm still looking outside of myself for both.

I had a therapist for a while who validated how I felt and how horrible and dysfunctional my mother's behavior was throughout my childhood, but she didn't really help me to find any solutions, and that was kind of frustrating.

When we have never felt or been validated in our lives and we don't know how to do it for ourselves, I don't really know how to deal with that. I've had other people in my life (close friends, etc.) give me validation about my childhood, but it doesn't seem to have solved anything. I think I'm still seeking it from my family, now that you mention it, and some of them are just never going to give that to me to the degree that I feel is warranted.

Not feeling validated or heard is such a HUGE trigger for me, too. Hm...well, that definitely gives me some things to chew on for a while.

Do you (or any of you reading this) have any suggestions for how to stop looking to others for that validation that we never got from our parents or families, or how to stop hoping that somehow they themselves will give it to us?

Mostly, I suppose it is just a huge trigger that I don't have a clue about how to deal with most of the time.

Anybody?

Thanks so much for bringing that up, Bluebelle.

Plath

I suppose the Inner Child work that people talk about would probably help with that need for validation and being heard.

I've only done a minimal amount of work with that, and mostly just on my own, based on what I've heard from friends who have used it in therapy, etc.

That, and a combination of just knowing which friends and family members I can talk to about these things and learning how to maintain my own boundaries with it would probably help with all of this.

It's hard for me, as a fairly sociable person, to not be able to talk to people about what's going on in my life...and, although I do have friends and some family to spend time with, I'm still pretty isolated in many ways. I spend most of my time at home with my son and husband, and when I go out to do things I enjoy, I either do them by myself or I do them with my husband.

Partially, this is just because my life has changed over the years. I stopped going to other 12 step meetings where I had a lot of friends (which wasn't necessarily a bad thing), and I stopped being so interested in going out to see my friends' bands play and became more focused on what was going on with *me* on the inside, not the outside.

I feel like I'm kind of in limbo in that sense, as I don't have the same social outlets that I used to have, so when I talk to people it's hard for me to figure out where and when I need to filter...

Well, one thing at a time, I suppose, but this is good for me to be thinking about.

bluebelle

I'm good at analysis, too. It is probably something I learned growing up. I needed to prepare for whatever nonesense my mom was going to throw at me next. I use it in my career, too. One thing I do to get away from it is to try to be in the moment. I will be taking a walk, and I will try to think about what I'm experiencing at that time. I think about the sun against my face, the wind, etc. It just gives my mind a short break from all of the analyzing.

I guess the validation helps some. It helps you realize that your feelings and actions are understandable considering the circumstances. This is one place that you can get validation. You can see how other people have similar feelings and reactions as you because of their upbringing. My psychiatrist helps me with validation. I will tell her about something that happened to me, and she says that it would be a very upsetting event. That helps me realize that my feelings are o.k. I guess I'm saying that you can get validation on your own. You can acknowledge your own feelings and that they are o.k.

There is probably a part of me that would like some kind of death bed confession from my AF. It most likely will never happen. I hope I'm not too disappointed when it doesn't happen. I guess that goes back to would it really change anything. Would it change my past if he admitted his wrongdoings? Would it change what I've been through, or change my future? I can't really count my happiness on something that will probably never happen. That's why I'd like to change my happiness/depression/anxiety now by working on my life in the present.

I guess I'm saying that I would be careful by putting too much stock in the actions of somebody else. My past has taught me that I can't count on the people around me. I don't mean that in a negative way. When I was a kid, my family should have protected me. They didn't, and so I suffered the consequences. As an adult, I can protect myself and keep myself from harm. That is part of the power that I have as an adult.

I really saw this clearly last time I saw my AF. He was a total jerk, of course. I'm not sure if he's capable of much more. I was upset. Despite that, I would not give him the reaction he wanted. I wasn't going to beg and plead with him to stop hurting me. I am strong and capable, and will not allow somebody to treat me like that. I have a choice as an adult. That choice is to stay away from him. So, I guess for that reason, I'm not expecting validation. I don't want to be around him at all, because I think all he can give me is pain.

I know I'm rambling, but I hope it made a little bit of sense and helped.

Plath

What you're saying makes total sense, I don't think you were rambling at all.

These are really big issues for me. In all reality, I've received about as much validation and acknowledgement as I'm going to get from my family, and they haven't done all that badly.
Some acknowledge more than others, but at least there is *some* acknowledgement and validation from everyone, on different levels.

So I don't really know why I'm still seeking it, or from whom.

I do know that feeling my own worth and power is something that seems like some sort of far away fairy tale to me, so I suppose I'm really just waiting for my *own* validation that I'm a good person, that I'm perfect and lovable just for being a person and a human being walking the earth, or just for being me.

All of that just feels like there is an iron wall inside of me that slams down and says "NO, you are not valuable, you are NOT worth anything. Stop trying to make yourself feel better."

Wow, what a horrible realization to have to face...but I think I've known this for a while, and I have chosen not to address it because it seems so utterly impossible.

I am sure that's why I over-explain things to people, and why I sometimes want to talk to my mother in-law about our mothers. I feel no acceptance or validation from her on a sincere level, so I suppose I try to find that common bond, hoping that she might somehow validate me as a person because of our similar childhood experiences.
But of course that isn't going to work.

I think that a lot of the time, when I talk about the issues that I'm working on at the moment with people, I'm just talking without editing, and I'm just not really thinking about whether it's appropriate or wanted.
But the validation thing almost seems like an entirely separate issue, really...and one that I haven't had this much clarity on for a long time. I think when I've realized this before I've just felt really helpless and started focusing on something else.

Maybe that's another reason why it's so extremely difficult for me to be "in the moment", too. It's nearly impossible for me. I try sometimes, and for fleeting seconds (literally) I can feel a stillness and it's such a relief.

But most of the time, if I try to quiet my brain I find that I unconsciously start focusing on fearful or angry thoughts.

I suppose I should start a new thread about self-love and acceptance, or the lack thereof, since these things tend to come to light when we are ready and willing to deal with them.
Yikes...
Sometimes things hit me out of the blue, and it kind of freaks me out when I realize the extent of how hard it will be for me to feel/think/believe/act any differently than I have.

But thank you for giving me this to think about, even if it does freak me out a little bit. I think that our work here is all about leaving our comfort zones when we know that we have to make a change, so...

Willybluedog

I was talking with my therapist the other day about my mom, she asked me, "why do you hate her so much" I said, "because she will not admit to the abuse, I want her to say the words, acknowledge my pain". My therapist said to me "she must have an incredible amount of her own pain, otherwise why would she hide in the bottle the way she does"

Hmmm, I am still noodling that one, does it make a difference, does it absolve her, I don't know, should it make it easier for me to forgive her, maybe, does it, no not right now, not yet.

I used to tell my wife, one of these days you will figure out what a fraud I was, I really believed that, she would see into my soul, see all the damage, all the fear, see that child that cowered in there, not the man I pretended to be.

I understand the need for validation, I want you to acknowledge my pain and my suffering, but to do that they would have to admit that they stood by and did nothing, your acknowledgement is holding a mirror up and forcing them to see their own failures, most people are not capable of that level of self reflection.

I have no problem sharing about my physical, verbal, and sexual abuse here or on facebook, i am not very good at sharing in person, I pretend to be a gregarious person, it is a costume I wear, I am painfully shy, I don't drink very much and I never drink out in public, I never go to bars, because if I do I seem to draw drunks who want to fight.

The positive affirmation exercises have done way more for my self-esteem than anything else I have tried, I have learned that no one is going to validate my feelings except my therapist and the people here, many who have suffered the same types of abuse.

I wish I had better answers, I can only say i will be here for you plath, I will do everything in my power to help.

Big hugs,

Bill

Plath

Thanks, Bill.

It's been a horrible revelation for me tonight (but one that I am finally willing to face) that it's not really their validation that I'm seeking, it's my own.
And I have none to give.

I realized tonight for the first time (probably...at least for the first time that I've been willing to face it) that I have not one speck of love, respect, or dignity for myself.
Nothing.

I told my husband about my revelation, and how there is not even one single molecule in my being that believes even for a second that I deserve love, respect, dignity or validation from anyone, *let alone* from myself.

He was almost tearful as I told him about how, during the most self-destructive times in my life, I would literally look myself in the eye in the mirror and think of how much I hated the person looking back at me.

What I felt when he said, with sincerity, "I'm so sorry that you have to go through that" was that I was completely unworthy of his sympathy or empathy, and that I had none whatsoever for myself.

It's been crazy to really look this in the face for the first time... I think I've just let it go in the past because I didn't feel equipped to deal with it.

It's not really my family's approval or acknowledgement or validation that I'm seeking anymore, it's my own.

And all I can feel for myself is self-hatred.

It's crazy, but I'm finally willing to look this in the face, so to speak, and tell it to Eff off.

I don't know how I will accomplish that, but I'm determined that I will.

Thanks again so much for your support and encouragement, everyone on here. It has been and continues to be absolutely priceless to me.

Willybluedog

It is so hard to love yourself, to tell yourself you deserve good things, I am finally getting there and I will turn 50 next week, I cannot do it for you, but I can stand with you while you do this.

Plath you have such a good heart, what a beautiful person you are, I wish I had some way to give you a shot of self-worth.

You are beautiful, smart and fuuny, you deserve love!

I am very proud of you for slogging it out eacg day, god bless you.

Big hugs,

Bill

Plath

You too, Bill.

Thank God we all have each other on here.