What is healthy helping?
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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What's happening and maybe that would help us (I think it would help me) better define what is healthy and what isn't.
In my life, healthy helping is recognizing that after 8 yrs of being the classic codependent described in Beattie's book (thinking I was trying to help when actually I was trying to control behavior of other's that I saw hurting them but which they did not want to stop), the only thing left to do was to be apart from it.
I'll be honest, I still have pangs of guilt and feeling bad that I could not fix AH or love him out of his disease or love him enough to make him want to be well. All those thoughts come into my mind at moments. But I know, intellectually even when emotionally I am doubtful, that love and helping is not about trying to make someone do something they don't already want for themself.
Does that help at all?
In my life, healthy helping is recognizing that after 8 yrs of being the classic codependent described in Beattie's book (thinking I was trying to help when actually I was trying to control behavior of other's that I saw hurting them but which they did not want to stop), the only thing left to do was to be apart from it.
I'll be honest, I still have pangs of guilt and feeling bad that I could not fix AH or love him out of his disease or love him enough to make him want to be well. All those thoughts come into my mind at moments. But I know, intellectually even when emotionally I am doubtful, that love and helping is not about trying to make someone do something they don't already want for themself.
Does that help at all?
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Good question. According to the codependent books I'm reading healthy helping only energizes you and makes you feel good. Unhealthy helping makes you feel resentful, unappreciated, hurt, angry, you complain about it.....
Healthy helping doesn't drain you and doesn't cause negativity in your life.
All of this I'm still learning and practicing everyday.
BIG HUG
Healthy helping doesn't drain you and doesn't cause negativity in your life.
All of this I'm still learning and practicing everyday.
BIG HUG
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by anvilhead 
healthy helping:
being ASKED first before considering offering help
doing only for someone what they are incapable of doing for themselves (like climbing a ladder for a guy on crutches)
helping without compromising your own quality of life and current obligations
retaining the right to say NO or to stop helping at any time
being ASKED first before considering offering help
doing only for someone what they are incapable of doing for themselves (like climbing a ladder for a guy on crutches)
helping without compromising your own quality of life and current obligations
retaining the right to say NO or to stop helping at any time
With being asked first before consider offering help, that is an issue with me and my STBXAW. She will get angry with me if I don't offer help before being asked, which frustrates me to no end.
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With being asked first before consider offering help, that is an issue with me and my STBXAW. She will get angry with me if I don't offer help before being asked, which frustrates me to no end.
"Not my problem. I am not a mind reader. I only know that you need help if you ask."
Then change the subject or walk away.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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I am getting better at saying "I am not a mind reader. I only know that you need help if you ask." and walking away, but depending on her state of mind, that may be the end and it may trigger ranting and raving, which is where my frustration comes in.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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According to my therapist I can be involved in healthy helping by being a good listener for my father (the enabler) but not giving advice that I know he will never take (please leave your self-absorbed, mean, alcoholic wife who will not go to rehab, etc.), I can give advice in areas where I know he will take it (fish bait to try, what to have for lunch, etc.).
Now that I have been doing this four two weeks without screwing it up, my blood pressure is coming down a few points.
Now that I have been doing this four two weeks without screwing it up, my blood pressure is coming down a few points.
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Yeah, when I would read that enabling is doing something for someone that they can do themselves I was confused. I make my husband's lunch in the morning and he can certainly do THAT himself.
But when a family member asked if I would watch her kids because she couldn't pay the babysitter because her husband didn't have, and wouldn't get a job, I said no. I told her that if her husband can run the streets all day, he can sit home with his kids when gets back. I really felt bad about that because she was really struggling, but sometimes you have to let people feel the consequences of their actions. Or, the actions of others that they are willing to put up with.
But when a family member asked if I would watch her kids because she couldn't pay the babysitter because her husband didn't have, and wouldn't get a job, I said no. I told her that if her husband can run the streets all day, he can sit home with his kids when gets back. I really felt bad about that because she was really struggling, but sometimes you have to let people feel the consequences of their actions. Or, the actions of others that they are willing to put up with.
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but depending on her state of mind, that may be the end and it may trigger ranting and raving, which is where my frustration comes in.
I make my husband's lunch in the morning and he can certainly do THAT himself.
He can also do his own laundry. It is up to you.
But when a family member asked if I would watch her kids because she couldn't pay the babysitter because her husband didn't have, and wouldn't get a job, I said no. I told her that if her husband can run the streets all day, he can sit home with his kids when gets back. I really felt bad about that because she was really struggling, but sometimes you have to let people feel the consequences of their actions. Or, the actions of others that they are willing to put up with.
It can be confusing, or ........................... if we are fed up enough with our A, it certainly becomes easier NOT to do what he is used to, and allow him the resposibility of his adult life.
Each of us has our 'own' boundaries. I threw hubbies clothes out o the front lawn and refused to let him back in the house (he came home drunk having spent the last 5 days with his 'latest fling'. Not only did ALL of his clothes go on the front lawn, but his underwear was ALL starched STIFF AS A BOARD, jockey shorts, t-shirts, and socks.
I 'used' 'my anger' to help me get beyond the 'hump' in the road and move me forward with what I needed to do for me. I had my son move all H's 'weights and stuff' to about 1/2 way down the driveway and right next to the driveway. I had a neighbor come over and change the code on the garage door opener. You get the idea. It all had to be done for me to move forward. I could no longer do 'anything' to make his life easier.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Interesting topic. It can get confusing when you have a job that involves helping others.
One of my alcoholic uncles dated a girl who worked at a group home for homeless people. She also, while she was dating my uncle, drove him everywhere, as he had neither a car nor license. She drove him to work every day, etc. Well he kept drinking and getting into trouble, and finally the girl had had it and went to tell my grandmother that she was ending the relationship because she was his enabler and he had to learn to take ownership of his own life.
All of this is based on what my mom has told me, the girl was really nice and work at a group home.
One of my alcoholic uncles dated a girl who worked at a group home for homeless people. She also, while she was dating my uncle, drove him everywhere, as he had neither a car nor license. She drove him to work every day, etc. Well he kept drinking and getting into trouble, and finally the girl had had it and went to tell my grandmother that she was ending the relationship because she was his enabler and he had to learn to take ownership of his own life.
All of this is based on what my mom has told me, the girl was really nice and work at a group home.
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Originally Posted by choublak
Interesting topic. It can get confusing when you have a job that involves helping others.
One of my alcoholic uncles dated a girl who worked at a group home for homeless people. She also, while she was dating my uncle, drove him everywhere, as he had neither a car nor license. She drove him to work every day, etc. Well he kept drinking and getting into trouble, and finally the girl had had it and went to tell my grandmother that she was ending the relationship because she was his enabler and he had to learn to take ownership of his own life.
All of this is based on what my mom has told me, the girl was really nice and work at a group home.
One of my alcoholic uncles dated a girl who worked at a group home for homeless people. She also, while she was dating my uncle, drove him everywhere, as he had neither a car nor license. She drove him to work every day, etc. Well he kept drinking and getting into trouble, and finally the girl had had it and went to tell my grandmother that she was ending the relationship because she was his enabler and he had to learn to take ownership of his own life.
All of this is based on what my mom has told me, the girl was really nice and work at a group home.
You know, it's funny. I have a cousin who works at a group home and she just gives until it hurts. Taking people in, doing for others...it's a shame because she has a really good heart. She just doesn't know when to say when, and she helps those who don't know when to stop asking or expecting.
I like helping others, too. In fact, I've thought about becoming a drug and alcohol counselor because I am sure someone could learn from my experiences. BUT before I do anything for anyone I think about these things in the following order: How is helping this person going to affect me? How is it going to affect my family? Am I really helping or am I making it worse under the guise of helping? Is this person going to take the my help as a learning experience so in the future they can do it themselves? How many times have I helped this person with the same problem? Is this person problematic and requires too much help?
And to me listening, falls under helping. I can only take so much. Sometimes, people can take your willingness to listen for granted. I mean, unless you really don't care about the person, listening to them go on about their problems can be taxing, especially if they have no real intention on fixing whatever it they're complaining about.
A friend has asked me for some help but I can't seem to figure out if I'm going to make her situation better or worse by doing it. That's why I asked what's healthy help and not so healthy help. The posts are really helping me come up with a decision.
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I owned my own business doing Primary Home Care for the Terminally Ill and the Totally Incapacitated for quite a few years. Was it codie behavior? I don't believe so. I have been a 'caregiver' or 'customer support' for most of my life.
What Anvil does, sounds like a 'loving wife' doing something for the other person in their relationship to make his work day just a 'bit easier.' I would do the same.
Each one of us has to decide what 'our personal boundaries' are with all the folks we come in contact with.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
What Anvil does, sounds like a 'loving wife' doing something for the other person in their relationship to make his work day just a 'bit easier.' I would do the same.
Each one of us has to decide what 'our personal boundaries' are with all the folks we come in contact with.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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The way *I* see it...
Enabling is doing something for someone else that will open up the floodgates for more demands and/or expectations on even more things you will do for them. This is a sort of "the more you do the less they do" situation.
Helping is doing something for someone else that they fully appreciate, whether they can do it or not. While the appreciation is usually enough, these sorts of situations also have a good chance for reciprocity, where I can count on people when I need something (if the "something" is something they can assist with, of course), or when they'll do small things for me that show I'm on their mind in a positive light. There is also the understanding that I am only helping, that the next time the situation comes up I can say "no" without being subjected to the Inquisition even if I said "yes" the last time, and all the other things that come with actions being accepted and respected as a choice rather than an obligation.
Enabling is doing something for someone else that will open up the floodgates for more demands and/or expectations on even more things you will do for them. This is a sort of "the more you do the less they do" situation.
Helping is doing something for someone else that they fully appreciate, whether they can do it or not. While the appreciation is usually enough, these sorts of situations also have a good chance for reciprocity, where I can count on people when I need something (if the "something" is something they can assist with, of course), or when they'll do small things for me that show I'm on their mind in a positive light. There is also the understanding that I am only helping, that the next time the situation comes up I can say "no" without being subjected to the Inquisition even if I said "yes" the last time, and all the other things that come with actions being accepted and respected as a choice rather than an obligation.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
i am in the ranks of those who make a lunch for their husband every morning...actually get up earlier and get the coffee going before we actually get up....i do the all the laundry and make sure he has clean DRY clothes for work - hank works in a brutal trade, masonry construction....he's a hod carrier which means he does everything BUT lay block or brick...build the scaffold, with 18 ft planks, mix the mortar with 50# bags of mortar at a time, hauls 12 inch block, moves at a dead run all day long. i could not do 30 minutes of his job, but i can dang sure make sure he has good healthy fuel to eat during the 20 minute lunch break they get. i can do my best to help him be his best, which provides half our income. making a sandwich does not impair MY life, humping laundry is really NOT that big a deal....the man busts his @ss every day and then races home because THIS is his home, where he wants to be.
i don't believe that is codie behavior. we work to make each other the best they can be and thrive on being the best WE can be.
i don't believe that is codie behavior. we work to make each other the best they can be and thrive on being the best WE can be.
I have read that helping means doing for others that cannot do for themselves, and enabling is doing for others when they CAN do for themselves. I don't think I'm enabling my husband by making a sandwich because it is definitely something he can do himself. BUT I like doing it, I don't mind doing it because he's going to work to support our family, it's the least I could do.
That's all I was trying to say!
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Originally Posted by StarCat
The way *I* see it...
Enabling is doing something for someone else that will open up the floodgates for more demands and/or expectations on even more things you will do for them. This is a sort of "the more you do the less they do" situation.
Helping is doing something for someone else that they fully appreciate, whether they can do it or not. While the appreciation is usually enough, these sorts of situations also have a good chance for reciprocity, where I can count on people when I need something (if the "something" is something they can assist with, of course), or when they'll do small things for me that show I'm on their mind in a positive light. There is also the understanding that I am only helping, that the next time the situation comes up I can say "no" without being subjected to the Inquisition even if I said "yes" the last time, and all the other things that come with actions being accepted and respected as a choice rather than an obligation.
Enabling is doing something for someone else that will open up the floodgates for more demands and/or expectations on even more things you will do for them. This is a sort of "the more you do the less they do" situation.
Helping is doing something for someone else that they fully appreciate, whether they can do it or not. While the appreciation is usually enough, these sorts of situations also have a good chance for reciprocity, where I can count on people when I need something (if the "something" is something they can assist with, of course), or when they'll do small things for me that show I'm on their mind in a positive light. There is also the understanding that I am only helping, that the next time the situation comes up I can say "no" without being subjected to the Inquisition even if I said "yes" the last time, and all the other things that come with actions being accepted and respected as a choice rather than an obligation.
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Originally Posted by laurie6781
I owned my own business doing Primary Home Care for the Terminally Ill and the Totally Incapacitated for quite a few years. Was it codie behavior? I don't believe so. I have been a 'caregiver' or 'customer support' for most of my life.
Some people with caregiver-type jobs allow their duties in the workplace to spill over into their personal lives, doing things for other people who are capable themselves. That is when it can become problematic IMHO.
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Some people with caregiver-type jobs allow their duties in the workplace to spill over into their personal lives, doing things for other people who are capable themselves. That is when it can become problematic IMHO.
And having been an 'active' Alanon for years, it became 'almost' 2nd nature with me to 'check' and 'recheck' my 'reactions' with others in my life. Not only my clients, but personal also.
(((((Ms.TimmyV)))))
I'm sorry if I was 'mis-understiid'. I was in fact agreeing with you in a 'negative'. Trying to say I guess that some day, when "enough is enough" making his lunch will no longer be an option. The A's we are involved with, by their actions, change our reactions.
So, only do what you are comfortable with.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Oh! Teehee...
My husband actually isn't an alcoholic. In fact, he's never had a drink or a drug in his life. I was using the sandwich thing as a point of reference the enabling vs. helping thingy. I, however, am the recovering addict.
Actually, the post is about a friend of mine who has asked for some help. Her husband is an alcoholic, and she is pretty co-dependent. She asked me to help her find a day job so she can keep a better eye on her AH since he works during the day and she works night.
I was a bit confused about whether this would fall under "healthy" helping or "unhealthy" helping. It wouldn't bother me a bit to help her find a job. It wouldn't affect me at all. The thing about it is the reason behind the request. Kind of like "Would you fix my car so I can use it to rob a bank?"
On one hand, I feel like I should help her out and not worry about the reasoning behind it. But on the other hand, I don't want her to think getting a day job is going to fix the problem. She thinks by beefing the control she'll be able to stop him from drinking, or control the amount.
I don't know what to do. I mean, you wouldn't take an alcoholic to a bar, and you wouldn't hire an opiate addict to work in a pharmacy. I kind of feel like helping a codie get more control on a situation that cannot be controlled is enabling. Yes? No? I'm confused!
My husband actually isn't an alcoholic. In fact, he's never had a drink or a drug in his life. I was using the sandwich thing as a point of reference the enabling vs. helping thingy. I, however, am the recovering addict.
Actually, the post is about a friend of mine who has asked for some help. Her husband is an alcoholic, and she is pretty co-dependent. She asked me to help her find a day job so she can keep a better eye on her AH since he works during the day and she works night.
I was a bit confused about whether this would fall under "healthy" helping or "unhealthy" helping. It wouldn't bother me a bit to help her find a job. It wouldn't affect me at all. The thing about it is the reason behind the request. Kind of like "Would you fix my car so I can use it to rob a bank?"
On one hand, I feel like I should help her out and not worry about the reasoning behind it. But on the other hand, I don't want her to think getting a day job is going to fix the problem. She thinks by beefing the control she'll be able to stop him from drinking, or control the amount.
I don't know what to do. I mean, you wouldn't take an alcoholic to a bar, and you wouldn't hire an opiate addict to work in a pharmacy. I kind of feel like helping a codie get more control on a situation that cannot be controlled is enabling. Yes? No? I'm confused!
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It's not enabling if you want to do it and it isn't hurting them. I can make my own lunch and my own coffee. Sometimes AW does it for me simply becasue she can and she wants to. When we are talking about enabling this type of thing isn't it.
When I used to do her laundry because she couldn't because she was drunk all the time? That was enabling. When i do it now it's because I'm doing laundry and I might as well do hers too. She's sober for over a year and she usually does her own laundry. It's the same act, but one was enabling and the other is not.
The longer you are in recovery the more you'll be able to figure out the difference on your own.
Take care,
Cyranoak
When I used to do her laundry because she couldn't because she was drunk all the time? That was enabling. When i do it now it's because I'm doing laundry and I might as well do hers too. She's sober for over a year and she usually does her own laundry. It's the same act, but one was enabling and the other is not.
The longer you are in recovery the more you'll be able to figure out the difference on your own.
Take care,
Cyranoak
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