24hrsAday

i always liked this idea from Alcoholics Anonymous. i have made significant progress in the past few years. but, it has been the slow and steady kind.. this thing is not a race. we all do it at our own pace. also as i continue to work the steps i must remain aware.. i Never will be perfect. it is spiritual Progress not perfection that we are shooting for!

Boleo

I don't know about you, but I intend to see what else this spiritual awakening business is good for besides clean pee. I think Bill W. was aiming in that direction as well when he wrote:

"So Step Six--"Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character"--is A.A.'s way of stating the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job. This does not mean that we expect all our character defects to be lifted out of us as the drive to drink was. A few of them may be, but with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement. The key words "entirely ready" underline the fact that we want to aim at the very best we know or can learn"
(12&12 page 65)

"Therefore, it seems plain that few of us can quickly or easily become ready to aim at spiritual and moral perfection; we want to settle for only as much perfection as will get us by in life, according, of course, to our various and sundry ideas of what will get us by. So the difference between "the boys and the men" is the difference between striving for a self-determined objective and for the perfect objective which is of God."
(12&12 page 68)

"If we would gain any real advantage in the use of this Step on problems other than alcohol, we shall need to make a brand new venture into open-mindedness. We shall need to raise our eyes toward perfection, and be ready to walk in that direction. It will seldom matter how haltingly we walk. The only question will be "Are we ready?"
(12&12 page 69)

"It is suggested that we ought to become entirely willing to aim toward perfection."
(12&12 page 69)

24hrsAday

well, Bo i don't have any reason to worry about my pee because i am not a violator of the law and i never have been. my progress is imperfect and that is fine with me. (85 looks and only one reply.. gotta love the the 12 step forum)

Tommyh

hiya 24
I look at this as my relationship with God
It gets better with time,a growing spiritual life.Just because I go thru the steps once dosen`t mean I have arrived,it is just the beginning,indeed a wonderful journey!

24hrsAday

yes. time it takes Time and patience..

WakeUp

I NEVER want to reach perfection, because to me perfectionism is the ultimate character defect. I spent years trying to be perfect but always ended up sabotaging myself. I simply walk the spiritual path, always learning, always growing, but never arriving. Not in this lifetime, at least.

24hrsAday

perfection is not possible. that was the main thing i had in mind when i posted this.

SteppingItUp

Boleo, I loved that post.

I also see this in relation to steps 6 and 7.

Is God everything, or is he nothing? Well, I believe the God of my understanding is everything, which also means he can do anything. If I am following the process, when I sincerely get to 7, what he decides to do from there is up to him.

If he wants me to be perfect, it's God! It's going to happen. Of course, maybe everything is already perfect, right now, right in this instant. This despite what "I may want" or what "I may think" about "how things should be" to be "just right."

I think that while I sure can still make mistakes, and I'm having to look at one right now in fact, I have come to believe that there are no mistakes in God's universe.

It's just my job to stay close to God and perform his work well (the steps provide a reliable formula for doing that); the results are up to him.

I also struggled immensely with the problem of perfectionism (aka self-seeking), which has always felt awful to experience. At times when it comes back (for oh how that ego grows back), it sure doesn't make for happy or effective work. As a friend in recovery shared with me this weekend, which he heard in a meeting, "I learned so much from my recent mistakes that I decided to go out there and make some more." You mean by living? Yeah, I'll take some of that today, even if all of my old living tools rusted, decayed or needed to be thrown away completely and I'm having to start trying awkwardly all the time with new ones.

The only thing about "progress not perfection" to watch out for, I think, is to make sure that I'm not using it to justify things that are holding me back and keeping me sick, if the appropriate actions are actually right there in front of me, when God has let me know what I'm supposed to do, and I'm not following.

I hope you're all having a wonderful day.

Now I need to go take another look at my imperfections (and address what I'm supposed to do, no matter what my fancy-pants-pride tells me).

With love,
SIU

24hrsAday

i thought only Jesus was perfect.. we all need to work the program to the best of our ability. if my way is different than yours.. so be it. live and let live.

SteppingItUp

Who am I to say what God can''t do?

gr8ful42day

I love the way this is put, thank you.

PaperDolls

The BB says we should always strive for perfection. I never liked the idea of that since I know I'll never achieve it (nor do I want to) I'm not sure striving for it is a good idea for me.

Today, I try to do things that make God smile. That is progress for me for sure.

Boleo

What about Siddhārtha Gautama Śākyamuni (aka Buddha)?

He may not have been perfect but he was "At One" with whatever runs the universe. His only limitation was, he detached from all desire, including the desire to know God.

I have experienced enough spiritual awakenings to know that they parallel enlightenment. According to the ancient Hindu's, there were at least 4 levels of enlightenment; Satori, Moksha, Nirodha and Nirvana.

I have experienced the first 3. They actually correspond to several of the promises described in the Big Book (not just the 9th step promises):

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-promises.html

I am not looking for perfection per se, but if that's what it takes to get to Nirvana, I'll settle for it. Spiritual progress may be good, however:

"Sometimes the good is the enemy of the best."
(Abe Lincoln/Bill Wilson)

DayTrader

Can someone tell me where "progress not perfection" came from? Was it a grapevine article or just another saying that popped up? Was is pulled from "We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection?"

I ask because my BB reads differently. P14 suggests, "For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice......"

Also, that "we claim....." line talks not about what we strive for but what we claim - there's a difference

I don't aim for progress.....or hope for progress. I aim for perfection but am content with progress. Given it's "progress" that I actually see in my life, I can easily CLAIM progress........but I'm still striving for perfection.......still striving to grow toward a greater ideal.

Now I'm not a complete idiot and I see where the phrase has it's place - it's a good one to keep the self centered, control freak, manipulative alkie from thinking it's ok to be a perfectionist. It's also good to be reminded that while we can strive for perfection, we're likely all going to be presented with slow progress combined with occasional set-backs. That in no way means to me that I can't still strive for perfection. It does, of course, have to be a "healthy" striving - no self deprecation when I fall short of my ideal.

** I re-read my post and it seems to possibly be a tad argumentative. If I offended anyone, I apologize. In the spirit of where I was coming from when I wrote it, I'm going to leave it untouched.....but again......I didn't really mean to anger anyone.

Tommyh

Dr Bob said a few words on the absolutes

In 1948, Dr. Bob recalled the Absolutes as "the only yardsticks" A.A. had in the early days, before the official Twelve Steps. He said he still felt they held good and could be extremely helpful when he wanted to do the right thing and the answer was not obvious. "Almost always, if I measure my decision carefully by the yardstick of the absolutes and it checks up pretty well with those four, then my answer can’t be very far out of the way," he said.

if I measure my life to those yardsticks,which amounts to a close relationship to perfection,i fall short but I can see growth,progress.

a lot of this boils down to my conception of God and my commitment to God.
Does my God have the Power to enable me to be completely honest,pure ,loving, unselfish to others today?

newby1961

IMHO I feel as if I am putting one foot in front of the other and I am striving to do the next right indicated thing than God will take care of the rest.

As long as I know that my God is big enough to handle all situations than there is some peace.

It is only when I start thinking and acting like I am lttle Miss God Jr that life becomes very full of unnecessary drama.

In my recovery I learned early off to turn my sobriety over to God but, what I needed to work on was turning everything, and trusting that I could turn everything over. Like my relationships, my fears, financial issues, work or lack of. Which even with almost 8 years I still have a hard time with the work issue, as I have been looking for employment for over a year and still nada.

So anyway I hope some of this makes sense to someone other than just me lol.

24hrsAday

i agree 100% newby! (keep your chin up on the work thing. you are NOT alone there!)

Tommyh

I am enjoying this thread 24
when/where does perfection began,and when/where does it end?
Does it start when we pray,or act on those prayers?
does it start when we first start to trust and relie on God?

thought I would throw that out there, & see what we came up with

SteppingItUp

* edited for reflection.

Was posted as: "Who am I to say what isn't perfect?"

Going to have to bring that one to meditation...

Have a great day, everyone