Does it matter?

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Old 05-04-2011, 03:36 PM
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Does it matter?

My XGF has a dual-diagnosis: bipolar and recovering alcoholic. She was open about these facts, but said her moods were well-maintained with medications and that she hadn't drank in years. I do believe that was true at the time.

After some wonderful months together she began cycling between hypomania and severe (suicidal) depression. Then she relapsed into alcohol (twice). I only saw the mania once and only heard about (found out about) the depression and drinking, but it was completely destructive to her and to our relationship.

After she spent a brief stint in a suicde-watch lockdown I told her I needed some space. She said of course. That she understood. When she relapsed the second time (two weeks later) she drove drunk with her son in the car. Her therapist reported her to the authorities to ensure her children were safe. Her response was to tell me she was going to find a new therapist. I continued to keep some distance. I didn't recognize her anymore.

In one of my last conversations with her, she said she wanted to move our relationship forward. Sadly though, she was in a bar at the time - - a rather slippery place for her. Shortly after telling her I would have to think about it she abruptly ended our relationship. She said I wasn't willing or able to learn more about her conditions and to be supportive. I felt numb and speechless.

I know that she didn't ask or want to be bi-polar or an alcoholic. I feel for her. And I always knew I couldn't control that or could cure any of that in her. But still, I was shocked by the suddenness and the severity of her issues. She later admitted to planning to drink when she got depressed, and her behavior when hyper was not conducive to a relationship.

So now I've bought some books, spent some time online at sites (like this one!) and am trying to find an Al-anon meeting near me. I guess my questions are this:

Where does someone's personality end and their bi-polar conditions begin? How does one react when their loved one tells them they were trying to buy guns to kill themselves the night before?
Can someone who dislikes themself so much actually love someone else?
How do couples with bipolar conditions trust and communicate? And not take certain behaviors personally?

And most importantly, does any of it matter?

I feel for her and wish her nothing but the best, but she ended our relationship. Perhaps the reasons she ended it had nothing to do with her conditions. I will always love her in some ways, but overall, I am now increasingly calm, at peace, and trying to move on. Trying to rebuild my self-esteem and trust. I am trying to focus on my thoughts and behaviors.

I can't deny that I think of her every day, and I wonder if she is OK, but I try not to obsess. She asked me for no contact and I am complying. It is sad, and difficult, but I am getting stronger.

Several people on the site have already told me to "run." And there's nothing to run from at this point. But I am trying to be sensitive and understanding to the conditions. It's hard for me because I have neither of them, but I am trying. Am I trying to understand something that is not understandable?

Sorry if this all sounds insensitive. Thanks for letting me air my thoughts and questions.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:47 PM
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To be honest, I think she did you a favor by breaking off the relationship. She is not stable, with either her drinking nor her bi-polar. A relationship with a person having either of these afflictions is difficult, but the two together can be nearly impossible if the person isn't vigilant about recovery in both areas. Many people live pretty much normal lives with bi-polar. They follow their doctor's directions and take their medications regularly and are able to manage it quite well. Add alcoholism to the mix, and you are just asking for trouble.

There is nothing wrong with you caring about her and hoping she does well. I do think you are better off not getting too involved with her again.

P.S. to add: The fact that she drove drunk with her children in the car and her response to being reported is to find another doctor is very troubling to me. It tells me she is nowhere near ready to be a responsible mother, let alone a responsible equal partner in a relationship.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Where does someone's personality end and their bi-polar conditions begin? How does one react when their loved one tells them they were trying to buy guns to kill themselves the night before?
Can someone who dislikes themself so much actually love someone else?
How do couples with bipolar conditions trust and communicate? And not take certain behaviors personally?
One of my best friends is bipolar. She can be trying when she's in her manic phases, but with constant contact with doctors and close check on her medications, she's maintaining very well. She has a husband, a job, children, and manages her family quite well. She doesn't self-medicate with alcohol because she knows that is counterproductive. Her husband is very aware of her condition and also of what signs to look for when she doesn't see them -- and she is committed to listening to him when he points to signs that she's swinging in either direction and needs to adjust her meds.

It's a two-way street where they together manage their life together. But it all begins with trust, and they didn't get to that point easily.

When someone you love say they almost committed suicide last night, unless they're continuing the sentence with, "would you please drive me to the psych ward?" I would suspect you're dealing with a manipulator.

I think what I would say to you is "why does it matter?" What part is personality, what part is her bipolar disease, and what part is her alcoholism doesn't really matter. What matters is -- are you willing to live with the sum of the parts?
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:00 PM
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Your post did not strike me as insensitive at all, but rather sensitive AND sensible.

We are not obligated to court train wrecks in our one precious lifespan.

CLMI
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:05 PM
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Thank you Suki. I agree with your thoughts. You have given me good advice several times now. Its sometimes hard to step back and see the bigger picture when your stuck inside the drama and the trauma. Thank you for you being objective on the outside.

Several friends have told me the same thing. I received a favor.

Right now I am trying to understand my feelings and my behavior. Not so much hers. Why did I enter into a relationship with her? I mean, she does have some incredible qualities, but I was too trusting. Too desperate for love?

I never thought I could "save her" in any way. Just thought that if there were issues or the thought to drink that we would talk about it first. That was naive of me.

After her first round of manic behavior I told her I didn't think she was ready for a relationship. I should have trusted myself more right then. I had no idea that her condition would worsen just 2 weeks later.

She has wonderful kids. I hope they are OK as well. I feel for her entire family.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:23 PM
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Oh wow, honey. I feel for you. My situation was similar, although my ex is not in recovery and never has been. He's a binge drinker.

My ex was diagnosed bipolar as a teenager. I think he may be bipolar with ADHD and he's self-medicating.

I never saw my ex in a suicidal depression unless he'd been drinking. My bottom-or last straw where I had to give him an ultimatum to get sober or I walk-was him putting his gun in his mouth and threatening suicide, over the phone with me after the umpteenth argument about his drinking.

See, what's scary to me is that he actually OWNS a gun. Now he has a gun and a rifle.

I wanted to call 9-1-1 but he said if I did, he's take 10 people out with him. Hard to say if he meant it or not, but when you're dealing with a drunk person with a gun...hard to do the right thing.

As for your questions..I have no answers for you and I am not sure anyone else does either. I suspect tho, that someone who does NOt love themselves, cannot love someone else.

My ex was always pushing me away I think because he felt he didn't deserve me. Even if someone who hates themselves CAN love you, this is NOT someone you want to be with.

They engage in self-destructive activitiy that is likely to bring you down.

I understand obsessing - I have done a fair amount of that myself. Confusion...frustration..the feeling your heart if being torn to pieces..I know those feelings.

I am NC as well because I know it's the healthiest thing, but it's hard for me not to contact him. It's just that, I know where it's gonna lead-nowhere good. Unless and until he's in recovery, I can't have anything to do with him. I'm not even sure if he was, if I'd want anything to do with him..the trust is just, gone.

I got into al-anon and am working the steps with a sponsor. Even tho I'm not with the ex, I am not doing it for him. I'm doing it for me. I have a lot of healing. I was severely damaged by this relationship. You don't walk away from someone who's suicidal, without feeling broken yourself.

I'd suggest you check out a meeting in your area and see if you can find some comfort and peace, being among people who understand what you're going thoruhg.


{hugs}


Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
My XGF has a dual-diagnosis: bipolar and recovering alcoholic. She was open about these facts, but said her moods were well-maintained with medications and that she hadn't drank in years. I do believe that was true at the time.

After some wonderful months together she began cycling between hypomania and severe (suicidal) depression. Then she relapsed into alcohol (twice). I only saw the mania once and only heard about (found out about) the depression and drinking, but it was completely destructive to her and to our relationship.

After she spent a brief stint in a suicde-watch lockdown I told her I needed some space. She said of course. That she understood. When she relapsed the second time (two weeks later) she drove drunk with her son in the car. Her therapist reported her to the authorities to ensure her children were safe. Her response was to tell me she was going to find a new therapist. I continued to keep some distance. I didn't recognize her anymore.

In one of my last conversations with her, she said she wanted to move our relationship forward. Sadly though, she was in a bar at the time - - a rather slippery place for her. Shortly after telling her I would have to think about it she abruptly ended our relationship. She said I wasn't willing or able to learn more about her conditions and to be supportive. I felt numb and speechless.

I know that she didn't ask or want to be bi-polar or an alcoholic. I feel for her. And I always knew I couldn't control that or could cure any of that in her. But still, I was shocked by the suddenness and the severity of her issues. She later admitted to planning to drink when she got depressed, and her behavior when hyper was not conducive to a relationship.

So now I've bought some books, spent some time online at sites (like this one!) and am trying to find an Al-anon meeting near me. I guess my questions are this:

Where does someone's personality end and their bi-polar conditions begin? How does one react when their loved one tells them they were trying to buy guns to kill themselves the night before?
Can someone who dislikes themself so much actually love someone else?
How do couples with bipolar conditions trust and communicate? And not take certain behaviors personally?

And most importantly, does any of it matter?

I feel for her and wish her nothing but the best, but she ended our relationship. Perhaps the reasons she ended it had nothing to do with her conditions. I will always love her in some ways, but overall, I am now increasingly calm, at peace, and trying to move on. Trying to rebuild my self-esteem and trust. I am trying to focus on my thoughts and behaviors.

I can't deny that I think of her every day, and I wonder if she is OK, but I try not to obsess. She asked me for no contact and I am complying. It is sad, and difficult, but I am getting stronger.

Several people on the site have already told me to "run." And there's nothing to run from at this point. But I am trying to be sensitive and understanding to the conditions. It's hard for me because I have neither of them, but I am trying. Am I trying to understand something that is not understandable?

Sorry if this all sounds insensitive. Thanks for letting me air my thoughts and questions.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:37 PM
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We are not obligated to court train wrecks in our one precious lifespan.
I want that on a t-shirt.
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:09 PM
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To all of you:

THANK YOU. It feels good to put some thoughts down on paper. (E-paper?)

I think my question was rhetorical. I was asking myself the very question: What does it matter? I don't think that it does. It simply is what it is. I am trying to accept that. I know I am powerless to change any of it.

To be sure, I am old. I have been in love (and lost) before. But I have never experienced a relationship burst into flames so quickly and horribly. Such destructive conditions. They do take a toll on everyone involved.

I will check out an Al-anon meeting soon. For me.
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:18 PM
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You're old? My goodness-you're never too old to learn life lessons. I feel old sometimes, too. Sometimes it's frustrating that I'm 43 and still don't have a healthy, longterm relationship. I'm hoping al-anon and working the steps, getting healthy, will help me attract a healthier partner than the last ones.

Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
To all of you:

THANK YOU. It feels good to put some thoughts down on paper. (E-paper?)

I think my question was rhetorical. I was asking myself the very question: What does it matter? I don't think that it does. It simply is what it is. I am trying to accept that. I know I am powerless to change any of it.

To be sure, I am old. I have been in love (and lost) before. But I have never experienced a relationship burst into flames so quickly and horribly. Such destructive conditions. They do take a toll on everyone involved.

I will check out an Al-anon meeting soon. For me.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:24 PM
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My brother is bipolar. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain that, for whatever reason, usually manifests in the late twenties, early thirties. It is NOT a personality disorder. However, it DOES need to be constantly and consistently treated with medication. The biggest problem is, people with bi-polar after years of good results from taking their medication can feel "cured" and stop the medication. Then the symptoms return...with a vengeance. Add alcohol to this, like Suki pointed out, and you are in real trouble. It sounds as if she may have stopped her meds and then relapsed with the alcohol. The sudden demise of the relationship sounds like the alcoholic "stinking thinking" and may still be there even if she did get her meds straightened out to manage the bi-polar. I feel for you. Working on yourself right now is most likely your best course of action. I'm sorry this happened to you.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lockedout View Post

Shortly after telling her I would have to think about it she abruptly ended our relationship. She said I wasn't willing or able to learn more about her conditions and to be supportive. I felt numb and speechless.

* * *

And most importantly, does any of it matter?

I feel for her and wish her nothing but the best, but she ended our relationship. Perhaps the reasons she ended it had nothing to do with her conditions.
I think you're right, it might not having anything to do with drinking or bi-polar. Injecting my own opinion only, I think that it might boil down to selfishness or self-centeredness.

If she broke up with you for the reason you gave above, it sounds as though she might have wanted the centerpiece of the relationship to be her and you supporting her.

My RABF says that lots of alcoholics suffer from "terminal specialness." (Wait... that might be "terminal uniqueness"... not sure. Anyway... )Their sense of specialness and entitlement puts them "above" in their own minds, very self-centered. Healthy people don't revolve around others like satellites, so the terminally special move on. The those who fall into the terminally special category want satellites (maybe even believe they deserve satellites) and they assume or draw conclusions that lots of things are about them or should be about them, especially that their partners in close relationships should focus on them.

She might have been very honest in what she said- maybe she didn't want to be with someone who didn't make her the focus of their life, or enough of a focus. If all of that is true- good for you! And no wonder it was confusing! If this theory and the terminal specialness generalization applies, that kind of thinking is mind-boggling. It doesn't make sense to healthy, caring and balanced people.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:43 PM
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Thank you. Your thoughts really resonate with me.

I received some explanations from her after we broke up and before she stated she didn't want to hear from me again. All were confusing to me and made no sense.

"I am in love with you but do not want to be romantically involved with you."
"I need someone who truly understands and supports me. You were unable and unwilling to educate yourself about my conditions."

The truth is, it IS hard to understand. And I told her that saying you love me but don't want to see me is a bit confusing too...

I had agreed to meet with her and her therapist months ago, but she never followed through. She said it would frighten me too much - - bipolar, recovering alcoholic, plus PSTD.

So, I read books, online websites, etc. and did my best. I wasn't always perfect, and I reacted in anger once or twice. Would have been better to respond rather than to react.

Now, I find this site to be very healing for me. Thank you for giving me your thoughts. I am continuing to learn to accept and to move on.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:56 AM
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Hi,

Sorry you are in in this sad position; full of wondering and reflection?

I care very much for my wife who is an alcoholic and suffering some combination of phychiatric illness.

Its hard for them and us!

One of your questions resonates with me.

Can you love someone else when they do not love themselves: Its a question I have asked myself many times.

I have been taught in Al Anon than you can only love someone else without expecting something back when you love yourself.

Take care
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:13 AM
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ValJester -

Thanks!

Your viewpoint makes sense. She told me after her first relapse that a major depressive episode gave her the thoughts of drinking. I.E., as long as I'm going to kill myself I might as well be drunk too. She had worked very hard on her sobriety, but clearly her meds weren't working as intended.

I am finding some days much harder than others. I do love her and think I always will. But detachment is hard.

The Melodie Beattie books I have been reading suggest that detaching with love is best. Detaching with anger (what I did) isn't optimal, but is better than not detaching at all. Still working on it. I always felt a "push/pull" from her. And while we're not together, I realize that I still feel it. Some days I'm calm and happy and feeling confident. The next thing I know I'm sad, and worried about her. Hoping she is safe. The last I heard she was contacting her alcoholic, abusive ex-husband about them getting back together. That's really frightening.

I am constantly trying to figure out if I am just heartbroken that she suddenly rejected me, guilty that I didn't understand or support her better, or just confused, sad, and (yes) angry. Pretty scarred up right now. I did believe that she loved me at one point.

I was doing pretty well yesterday, but am not doing so well today! I have much to learn about my own behaviors. Still hoping to find an al-anon group in my area that fits into my schedule. I know I need to establish better boundaries about what I can do or not do. Take or not take.

Yikes! I am a mess today.
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