starshaped

I posted this in the ACOA section, but I notice that's not really as popular as this section. Hopefully this is okay.

Hi everyone. I decided to join this forum because before now, I have never really talked to anyone outside of my nuclear family about my mother's alcoholism. The only people that I've ever talked to are my dad, sister, and boyfriend. I usually keep all of my feelings buried inside and it causes me to have really angry outbursts and I'm just tired of feeling this way.

To make a very long story somewhat shorter...
I'm 23 years old and my mom has been an alcoholic for at least the past 10 years, but I think it all started nearly 13 years ago. I was an only child until I was 10, and I had the ideal childhood. My mom had a full-time job, took me to all of my many activities, was very involved in everything I was doing, had hobbies, etc. Things have just never been the same since my mom started drinking heavily. She doesn't have a job, stays in bed until around 2-3 pm, drinks all day, says mean things, barely ever leaves the house, has no motivation to do anything, lies, steals money from my dad, my younger sister, and me. She isn't the mother I knew. I guess I was about 14-15 when I finally admitted to myself that I basically didn't even have a mother anymore. My dad takes on the role of both parents and he feels guilty about everything. My 12-year-old sister basically knows nothing except an alcoholic mother, and she can't even understand it fully yet.
I recently moved back home for financial reasons. This week my mom went to the hospital and it was discovered she has permanent liver damage. Along with the alcoholism, she had very poor eating habits for the past several years, and now she looks like a skeleton. So, she is now on oxegen (which might be life-long) and will probably have to get her stomach drained regularly. She looks like a frail elderly woman and she's not even 50 yet! She used to be a model, and she's let herself become this. The doctor says she should be able to build her health back up really quickly if she eats right and gets active, but that's easier said then done. Anyway, now my whole family has to deal with this issue. She just came home today. I have a hard time even looking at her. I have very little sympathy. I'M JUST SO ANGRY! I've harbored anger and resentment towards her for so long, but I don't want to be an angry person and let these feelings play a role in my life any longer.

LexieCat

You're in the right place, star, glad you're here.

I know how it feels to be so DAMN ANGRY and feeling helpless. We all do.

There is a road to recovery. I hope you will seek out Al-Anon. This online forum is great, but many of us find the face-to-face support at Al-Anon meetings invaluable as we learn to detach, with love, from someone else's drinking that we didn't CAUSE, cannot CONTROL, and cannot CURE. Your dad would benefit from Al-Anon, too, and your sister might appreciate Alateen, which is for kids living with alcoholism.

Hugs,

starshaped

Thanks, Lexi. I know it's going to be a long road for me. I read a list of many of the characteristics of children of alcoholic parents (low self-esteem, depression, obsessive perfectionism). I deal with all of these things and they all progressively grew worse and my mom's drinking grew worse. Today my dad suggested we go talk to a therapist about everything. When I was a teenager I was ashamed to admit anything or talk to anyone. I now realize I have nothing to be ashamed of.

farmer

Fortunately I got annual physicals and when my POC's started getting out of control, I got help. First was high blood pressure, then quickly elevated liver enzymes and fuzzy thinking.

Pathological Organ Changes are dramatic. I met a man who is bright yellow with jaundice and yet he is still in denial. He went home to a wife who is still drinking after 28 days of treatment. He said he only has 15% live liver left. He wouldn't talk to me, maybe 5 words during 4 weeks.

I can see why you are angry but hate the disease, not the person who can't or won't surrender and fight it.

starshaped

Good for you for getting help.

My mom was in the hospital about two years ago with another issue (neurological) and they told her it was because of her drinking, but that didn't stop her at all. To be honest, we don't think this liver issue would stop her either if it were compltely up to her. My dad won't allow alcohol in the house anymore now.

Her discharge papers say, "liver failure." They hadn't said she had liver failure before, just damage to the liver. I know liver damage is essentially damage to the liver, but when I see liver damage that sounds a lot more serious than what they were making it out to be.

It's so hard not to be angry at her. I'm not at the point where I can recognize it as a disease, and I fear even when I get to that point, I'll still be so upset at her for not doing something about it. The worst thing is, I seem to be the only one who has no sympathy for what she's going through now. She did it to herself. I'm not going to nurse her. That makes me feel so terrible. I don't even want to look at her. This has just brough back years of anger I've stored up. Years of being ashamed. Years of being so pissed off that my mother basically just abandoned me.

barb dwyer

I'm glad you're here.

Welcome.

Whatever you choose to do
to get yourself better
we're here.

There's no need to squash anger.
Or to judge yourself for feeling it.
I tried that and it was like putting my hand
in front of a garden hose.

It just got all over everyone.

Groups like Alanon
and ACOA
help in more ways that
it may sound -
besides just telling the story
and listening to others
there's ways out of the anger
and others know them.

Therapy is good too of course
meanwhile
alanon's price is hard to beat.

Whichever way you decide
I'm glad to read that you're not afraid
of doing what it takes
to get yourself put back together.

LexieCat

My second husband almost died of liver failure--it quit working, but after some time a biopsy showed he had EARLY cirrhosis (permanent damage, but only to a small portion of the liver). If he quit drinking, he would have been fine.

Sadly, he went BACK to drinking, and yeah, it is totally astounding that people continue to do that to themselves. I'm an alcoholic, too, and when my physical symptoms started getting scary that was one of the things that motivated me to quit. I'd seen what happened to him and didn't want to go there.

It really is a disease, and people are not in their "right" minds when they are in the grip of it. It causes amazingly selfish and destructive behavior, as you've seen. I'm so sorry you are all going through this. Recovery for YOU can help you to get a sense of peace back into your life, even as you hate what your mom has done.

Hugs,

Tuffgirl

Welcome starshaped!

This is a great forum - lots of wisdom and experience here. It has helped me immensely. But so has personal counseling with a therapist who specializes in addiction and regular Al-Anon meetings and step work. I am going full bore on this one...I refuse to carry this crap around inside of me anymore. What a lousy place to be in...I want something different.

Good for you for seeking help, especially at your young age (feels like forever ago I was 23, and now I am only 39, and yet it feels like so long ago...)

My own Mother has BPD, and it was a long journey to her own sense of recovery...for her it was a medication that finally worked. Like alcoholism, mental illness also carries with it lots of destructive behavior and denial. Detachment is key here, but someone needs to help you walk through what that means. Its a concept we all have struggled with and which we all take on in a variety of forms.

For me and my alcoholic husband, detachment had to be physical before it could be emotional. And when I separated from him, I spent a LOT of time reading about alcoholism. I have quite a library built up... and a much better understanding of what alcoholism is and how it effects me, too.

He is in recovery himself - and doing well. But it is truly one day at a time. I still deal with anger...I have plenty of it myself. That's normal and as Barb said - you have a right to your anger and it is justified. How you choose to deal with it and/or express it is your choice. Al-Anon helped me turn my own into something far more constructive. I am still learning, though.

Stay strong!
~T

sandrawg

I love what she just said: "you have a right to your anger and it is justified. How you choose to deal with it and/or express it is your choice. "

I too have a lot of anger towards my exabf. I am seriousl ylooking at tho-what good does it do? Does it help him? No. Does it hurt him? Probably not. Maybe my harsh angry words I ended the re'ship on, have hurt him. I know for sure they did not make him seek sobriety.

Yes, I too feel I have a right to be angry. But THEN WHAT. What do I do with it, since it's not serving any useful purpose for me right now other than, maybe, to keep me from getting into another toxic rel'ship. If I hold onto it, it's gonna eat me alive. I feel sick when I'm angry.

Have you been to a therapist? And yes, al-non will do wonders for you. But you gotta be patient. Don't expect miracles overnight. Recovery is a long slow painful process. I'm so sorry about your mom. I at least could walk away from my exabf. As painful as that was. She's your mother. Much harder to physically detach.

starshaped

Thanks to everbody for your responses.

Now we're dealing with her liver problems and it's all so confusing. The doctor just said she has permanent liver damage, but on the discharge papers it says "liver failure." It's really hard to understand exactly what's happening and what I should expect. I'm angry, but at the same time I'm dealing with the emotions of learning that my mother is very sick. At first I was just angry that she caused this to herself and that now my family has to deal with it. Now I feel bad for her. I feel bad for my 12 year old sister who is trying to manage school and all the activities she's in, keeping this secret that he mom is/was an alcoholic and that she's dangerously ill with liver failure. I feel bad that my dad has to constantly worry about her and spend all his time trying to force her to eat something and trying to nurse her back to health while she resists everything. My dad actually feels guilty about her situation. He thinks he shoudl ahve noticed the signs sooner (she had very bad bloody noses requiring her to go to the hospital, very bad bleeding gums, etc.). It hurts me so much that he feels guilty all the time because of this. Yes, I've told him I wished he divorced her 10 years ago so none of us had to deal with her, but at the same time, I understand she's his wife and he at least loves the person she used to be. Also, she couldn't fend for herself, no money, no ability to do anything because of her drinking. I know when I tell him I wish he had divorced her a ong time ago he feels guilty and hurt. I don't want to direct my anger at him.

At least she's not drinking. She knows my dad will not allow it, and she won't go anywhere to get alcohol. It's just a shame it had to come to this for her to stop. I know she doesn't really want to stop, but she is just being forced into it. The thing that's upsetting all of us now is that she won't eat anything. She ate half a peice of french toast and a little yogurt yesterday...that's all she ate ALL DAY. It just bothers me that she won't do what she could be doing to make herself healthier. And now that I'm living here, I'm the only one home with her during the day. My dad called and asked me to try to get her to eat something, but all she does is yell at us when we try to do that. I don't want to have to go through this. I really want to move states away where my boyfriend currently lives. He lives on the beach. I can't do it because I feel like I have to stick around here for everyone else.

concernednurse

My heart goes out to you, Star. Keep coming here, and keep going to Alanon. If you haven't started alanon yet, now would be a good time. We sacrifice so much of ourselves for the alcoholics that we love, and we really lose sight of who WE are, and what is best for us. Going to alanon and coming here will eventually give you the tools and eventual strength to DO what is best for YOU. It takes time, its a process, and the end is hard to see sometimes, that's why we take it one day at a time- sometimes, its one minute at a time. You are doing so so well to be seeking out support, and you are listening with OPEN ears, that is the best way to learn. You are doing awesome. Just keep doing what you're doing and you will be ok. We can help you through the hard times!!

starshaped

Thanks.
I think my main problem right now is the guilt I will feel leaving my dad and sister to deal with everything. We lean on each other for support in this situation, and although I can still talk to them, I can't be here with them if I move away. They didn't do anything to deserve to be left alone. That's just another reason I have anger towards my mom. Obviously I want to move away for other reasons, but I've wanted to get far away from her for a long time. I hate that she's made me feel that way. I've very close to my dad and sister, but she makes me want to move away from everything here.

I'm trying my best to take everyone's advice and to listen to what everyone has to say. It's just a huge relief to finally open up to people who understand. You start to feel so alone, especially when you're like me and you keep it a secret from nearly everyone you know.

wanttobehealthy

I am so sorry for your pain and what you've lived with and it drives home the point that I am doing the right thing to get my D's 5 and 3 out of an alcoholic home.

I just wanted to say about what you wrote above that although I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, I grew up with parents who were both ACOA's so it sure felt like it and one of the things I did not stop doing until well into my 30's was feel a sense of obligation about having to stick around, close to my mother in order to help her if she needed it... I was made to feel guilty and told I was selfish from a very young age for wanting to do things separate from my family (spend time with friends, play sports etc...) I was raised to believe that caring and love ='d self sacrifice and that anything other than that was selfishness.

If where you want to be is with your boyfriend, you deserve and have every right to be there. And think of it this way: maybe going away and getting out of the cycle of co-dependency and enabling in your household will mean that you are able to break that cycle for the next generation. The longer I stayed stuck behaving as I always had with regard to my FOO, the harder it made it to change those same behaviors that kept me stuck in an unhealthy marriage.

Your mother has made choices about her life and it's not your job, responsibility or obligation to stick around like a dutiful daughter and give up your happiness.

I don't mean this to sound harsh but it kind of sounds like your Dad has enabled your mom quite a bit and it's one thing for him to have chosen to stay but quite another to call you and ask you to be sure she eats and put responsibility squarely on your shoulders for your mother's well being.

I am really sorry for all you are dealing with. Having a parent who is so young be so ill must be heartbreaking. That being said, is your staying in the area and putting your own life on hold to help her live hers going to change anything for her? Think about what that's going to do to you...

But you did not do anything to deserve to have to stay... and no one is forcing your Dad or sister to stay either. I know it's a lot harder than this and please don't think I am over simplifying... I've stayed in my marriage far too long bc I was afraid to leave, afraid to be viewed as uncaring, afraid of the unknown, afraid of everything.

Please don't sacrifice your life for someone else's. At the end of the day life is really short and do you want to look back and say "I'm glad I sacrificed" or say "I'm glad I lived my life in a healthy manner". You can care and have compassion and "be there" for your dad and sister without having to stay. They might see it differently but that's bc they are seemingly more enmeshed with your mom than you are.

For a very long time I thought recovery (for me) meant things feeling good. Not so much what reality is. Changing HURTS. Lots of people have lots of opinions about how awful I have been and am being to AH for being done with our marriage. I don't feel good much of the time. But I trust that eventually I will. And as I wrote above, I decided I didn't want my life to continue to be one re-run of being co-dependent over and over and over anymore...

My heart goes out to you.... I hope you will believe that you have the right to put yourself first. It's not selfish. It's healthy.

FindingPeace1

Welcome! You're not alone! Keep on reading and posting.

They say there are 3 c's with alcoholism.
You did not cause it.
You can not cure it.
You can not control it.

Guiit comes up when we think we have some responsibility over another's life when we really don't.

I strongly suggest picking up a copy of Codependent No More my Melody Beattie. It really helped me.

You can do this by living one day at a time and allowing and exploring your feelings as you go.

Hugs,
fp

nodaybut2day

Just as you do not have a responsibility (or the power) to affect your mother's addiction, you also cannot deal with the issue of your mother's addiction FOR you father and sister. They too will need to find their boundaries themselves and learn how to enforce them. It's very important to remember to care for yourself; if you don't do it, who will?

sandrawg

Yeah, I was going to post, I see a lot of desire for control here. Not just over your mother's alcoholism, but trying to get her to eat, trying to get her to live more healthy..now, your dad and your sister.

Honey, pls take people's advice and get to an al-anon meeting. It really will help you.

Even just hearing the serenity prayer at a meeting, is a reminder to me that when I try to control the world around me, I just end up in pain, stress, and frustration.

God (or whatever your higher power is). Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference.

StarCat

I can't save the world. I can only save me.

If I spend all my energy on trying to save everyone else, then they only pull me down with them.
Now, if I take care of myself, and get myself healthy, I will have more energy to put towards helping others... I just have to remember that I can only help people who want help, and that there's nothing to be gained by staying in an unhealthy situation simply because I'm afraid of what will happen to everyone else if I leave.
The more important question is, "What will happen to me if I stay?"

I have been stuck in that unhealthy dynamic, with my XABF (ex-alcoholic boyfriend) but also with my family. I tried everything to get my family to see the light, to realize the unhealthy dynamic, but at the end of the day nothing has changed, 28 years later, and nobody wants to change, except me.
There comes a time when I just had to concede that I wasn't going to win that fight.

coffeedrinker

Welcome to SoberRecovery, starshaped.

I hope you will find the support and guidance you are seeking.

Ya know, you have A LOT to be angry for. It is all justified.
The thing that you may see one day - the place that I'm at as a 50-year-old daughter of an alcoholic - is that the woman I am today has everything to do with all that has happened in my life. We are all a composite!
The passion I feel for the 12 Steps, the wisdom I have earned, my compassion, the mother I have been to my own daughters....all a direct result of the path I have walked strewn with alcoholic friends and family.

Keep coming back, ok?

starshaped

I don't want to control my mom's alcoholism. I got over that a long time ago. I know I can't control it. She's not even drinking now, so her drinking isn't my concern. I'm just upset over what happened in the past. I'm upset that she drank so much that now she's so sick and the rest of the family has to care for her. I also am not trying to force her to eat, get active, or get healthy again. I'm not trying to stop her from smoking (she's supposed to stop since she's on oxygen now). My dad is trying to get her to eat. He'll ask her all day long if he can get her this, that, anything that she'll eat. She tells him to stop, he doesn't. I don't do that at all. I know I can't make her and she won't do what she needs to do to get well unless she wants to. It's still frustrating that she's like that though, but I'm more frustrated for my dad. It's hard to not try to force her to eat. It's his wife. He wants her to get better. My mom has basically no will-power, never has. It's one reason she's an alcoholic. She does need pushed sometimes (not that is usually works). Anyway, my mom is basically a skeleton, so it's hard for my dad to not press her to eat. She will die if she doesn't start eating. I just feel so bad because I know my dad will never leave her. Now that's she so sick, I can understand why he'd feel even worse leaving her. She's never been the type who could support herself. There have been many times I wish he would have divorced her, but at the same time, I don't blame him since I know it's much easier said than done. If he doesn't take care of her, who will? I know it's ultimately his choice about how he deals with the situation, but it's hard because I know he will continue to play her nurse, worry about her all day long, do everything for her, provide everything financially, etc. Part of me knows that I'm not obligated to stay here for them, but part of me feels like that's just what families do.

At this point, there is nothing I want to change except things in the past, and I've accepted that I can't change anything that happened back then. I'm just angry at my mom for all of that. I just wish my dad didn't have to go through this. My sister has no chocie, she's only 12. She can't move away, she just has to stay.

My dad says it's fine if I leave. He said if he were me and had the option to go somewhere else, he would. He says it's not my responsibility to stay here and take care of her. I don't intend to do that even if I do stay here, mind you. It still makes me feel bad.

P.S. This is not meant to be argumentative at all. Sometimes I post here when I get extremely angry, and I don't think I'm accurately getting what I want to say out, so I have to try to restate it here. I appreciate all the advice and kind words from everyone.

wanttobehealthy

Does your dad realize (not that it's your place to make him realize but maybe he ought to go to al anon?) that he DOES have the same option as you to leave and your sister deserves at least one parent who can look out for her interests.

You're in such a hard place. You feel for your sister and you're right-- she has few options. You sound healthier than your dad about how to approach your mom and how to not enable etc... so I understand your concern about what will happen to your sister if you're not around...

And don't worry about coming across any which way-- a lot gets lost in translation in email/writing on line so I know for me, if I'm confused about tone I'll just ask directly. For what it's worth I don't think you sound the least bit defensive...

Hang in there...