Book suggestion for those dealing w an abusive alcoholic
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Book suggestion for those dealing w an abusive alcoholic
I read a book last two days that has really amped up my understanding of some things. I could not put it down.
I suggest not becoming frightened by the title.
There are many of us, on this board who are dealing with people who are active, or who are in recovery, and who exhibit behaviors that make us wonder what else besides addiction could be happening in their minds.
I bought this book in order to learn some skills to protect myself, as NC is not an option in reality. We share a child, and he has health issues.
It was the highest rated book on the subject on Amazon.com
It is called "The Object of my Affection is in my Reflection: Coping with a Narcissist"
I ordered it, and thought I would get a few pointers, whatev...
What I learned from this book is the difference between people who have normal narcissism, people who exhibit something called Narcissistic traits, and people who have Pathological Narcissism, or NPD.
The author goes into great detail about how narcissism develops and WHY it develops in children and at what ages. It discusses how Co Dependents can, over time, and witout proper healing begin to become narcissitic in their traits if dealing with a true NPD. Co dependents will become self obsessed in their pursuit of the feed they require, while providing the true Narcissist with the feed they require.
She gently incorporates how our sickness is feeding into theirs, but that as CoDs, we are actually a treatable, healable population. NPDs are, also, but the death of ego, or humility that is required in AA is actually very difficult for them. She points out specifically, that in research, most NPDs do resist AA because of the surrender required,but that it could and is, in some cases be exactly what an NPD would need to undergo in order to accomplish progression in their healing of NPD.
The thing that has really made an impression upon me in this information, is about how MY CHILD has suffered or could further suffer from my preoccupation with the A or NPD person, his father... And that if it goes on, he will possibly develop narcissitic traits of his own.
She goes on to point out that 75% of true NPDs become addicted, and that the rate is especially high for alcoholism.
She also gives excellent step by step advice for protecting yourself, for extricating yourself from a Narcissistic attack or manipulation.
She highly recommends ALanon as a tool for dealing with the broken parts of ourselves. She actually reccomends alanon for people who are dealing with an NPD, even if they are not an addict!
I am not stuck on the labels, but the information was rather helpful for me.
Clarification .
I even recognized myself in her assessments of narcissistic behavior, however, as she describes, we will engage in a dance with a person exhibiting these traits no matter what the reason...if we were raised in the environment, have abandoment issues, or lost a parent before the age of 18, either to death, or absence.
Her suggestion is to recognize our part in the dance, really make the choice not to dance anymore. ANd follow the steps she lays forth.
It is all very similar to other material folks have shared here, but, a different angle.
i highly recommend. My commitment in reading this book was NOT to find ways to keep RAH in my life, or to find reasons to excuse his behavior, or to find sympathy for him.... but rather to gain tools for extricating myself from the toxic dynamic.
I suggest not becoming frightened by the title.
There are many of us, on this board who are dealing with people who are active, or who are in recovery, and who exhibit behaviors that make us wonder what else besides addiction could be happening in their minds.
I bought this book in order to learn some skills to protect myself, as NC is not an option in reality. We share a child, and he has health issues.
It was the highest rated book on the subject on Amazon.com
It is called "The Object of my Affection is in my Reflection: Coping with a Narcissist"
I ordered it, and thought I would get a few pointers, whatev...
What I learned from this book is the difference between people who have normal narcissism, people who exhibit something called Narcissistic traits, and people who have Pathological Narcissism, or NPD.
The author goes into great detail about how narcissism develops and WHY it develops in children and at what ages. It discusses how Co Dependents can, over time, and witout proper healing begin to become narcissitic in their traits if dealing with a true NPD. Co dependents will become self obsessed in their pursuit of the feed they require, while providing the true Narcissist with the feed they require.
She gently incorporates how our sickness is feeding into theirs, but that as CoDs, we are actually a treatable, healable population. NPDs are, also, but the death of ego, or humility that is required in AA is actually very difficult for them. She points out specifically, that in research, most NPDs do resist AA because of the surrender required,but that it could and is, in some cases be exactly what an NPD would need to undergo in order to accomplish progression in their healing of NPD.
The thing that has really made an impression upon me in this information, is about how MY CHILD has suffered or could further suffer from my preoccupation with the A or NPD person, his father... And that if it goes on, he will possibly develop narcissitic traits of his own.
She goes on to point out that 75% of true NPDs become addicted, and that the rate is especially high for alcoholism.
She also gives excellent step by step advice for protecting yourself, for extricating yourself from a Narcissistic attack or manipulation.
She highly recommends ALanon as a tool for dealing with the broken parts of ourselves. She actually reccomends alanon for people who are dealing with an NPD, even if they are not an addict!
I am not stuck on the labels, but the information was rather helpful for me.
Clarification .
I even recognized myself in her assessments of narcissistic behavior, however, as she describes, we will engage in a dance with a person exhibiting these traits no matter what the reason...if we were raised in the environment, have abandoment issues, or lost a parent before the age of 18, either to death, or absence.
Her suggestion is to recognize our part in the dance, really make the choice not to dance anymore. ANd follow the steps she lays forth.
It is all very similar to other material folks have shared here, but, a different angle.
i highly recommend. My commitment in reading this book was NOT to find ways to keep RAH in my life, or to find reasons to excuse his behavior, or to find sympathy for him.... but rather to gain tools for extricating myself from the toxic dynamic.
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One helpful tool was her presentation of the "priority pyramid"
It is just like the Nutrition pyramid, with the bottom level of the pyramid being the foundation.
She asked that you draw your own, and honestly assess where you place your energy on the priority scale.
Obviously, Self care should be first (including spiritual work, Physical safety, proper rest and exercize, creative outlet), then child/children, etc...
My priority pyramid over the years has definitely been foundationally focused on the aversion of, engagment with, maintenance of my RAH. My SELF was two levels up, after my son!
Just rewrote my pyramid, and stuck it on the wall. I need to keep my SELF CARE primary, my child next, finances, and his mess isnt even on the chart anymore...This is what I have been working on.
have a great day, You guys are a Godsend!
It is just like the Nutrition pyramid, with the bottom level of the pyramid being the foundation.
She asked that you draw your own, and honestly assess where you place your energy on the priority scale.
Obviously, Self care should be first (including spiritual work, Physical safety, proper rest and exercize, creative outlet), then child/children, etc...
My priority pyramid over the years has definitely been foundationally focused on the aversion of, engagment with, maintenance of my RAH. My SELF was two levels up, after my son!
Just rewrote my pyramid, and stuck it on the wall. I need to keep my SELF CARE primary, my child next, finances, and his mess isnt even on the chart anymore...This is what I have been working on.
have a great day, You guys are a Godsend!
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Mmm... I'm not sure I agree with the author's assessment. My babydaddy (not AH) is a true NPD and it may share some symptoms with active addiction, but it's very different on a brain level, which makes it very different to understand and deal with in reality. Alcoholics and Addicts are "curable" as long as they manage their disease. NPD is not a disease, there isn't a "cure," it can't be treated with medicine, it isn't a chemical imbalance. NPD is who they are, it's their personality. Everyone has some narcissistic traits like selfishness or vanity, but that's completely different from NPD.
NPD is the evil of absolutely not caring about you, because you don't exist to a Narcissist unless they can use you. I used to pray that the babydaddy would develop an addiction or haul off an hit me so at least I'd have something to point to when I claimed he was abusive. I can't even begin to tell you the evil that I and my son continue to endure dealing with this man, and it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what I've dealt with with my AH.
I mean, take what works! I don't mean to pop your balloon, and I will check the book out myself because I'll take anything I can get to help my son understand why my ex is such a cold, vindictive, gaslighting dad.
NPD is the evil of absolutely not caring about you, because you don't exist to a Narcissist unless they can use you. I used to pray that the babydaddy would develop an addiction or haul off an hit me so at least I'd have something to point to when I claimed he was abusive. I can't even begin to tell you the evil that I and my son continue to endure dealing with this man, and it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what I've dealt with with my AH.
I mean, take what works! I don't mean to pop your balloon, and I will check the book out myself because I'll take anything I can get to help my son understand why my ex is such a cold, vindictive, gaslighting dad.
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I agree with Florence, NPD is a lot different from alcoholism, although a lot of alcoholics do have some narcissistic personality TRAITS.
I wouldn't know whether a lot of narcissists become alcoholics/addicts (though it seems counterintuitive, to me) but I definitely do not believe most alcoholics "suffer from" NPD. (I put "suffer from" in quotes because people with NPD do not seem to suffer as a result of their disorder--people around them do.)
I wouldn't know whether a lot of narcissists become alcoholics/addicts (though it seems counterintuitive, to me) but I definitely do not believe most alcoholics "suffer from" NPD. (I put "suffer from" in quotes because people with NPD do not seem to suffer as a result of their disorder--people around them do.)
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DId not indicate, here, that "most alcoholics suffer from NPD".
I think you misread.
She states that large percentage of NPDs become addicts, and within THAT percentage, that alcoholism is high.
I am sorry if your experiences are different.
I am not an expert on NPD, ,dont have it, and dont know if my RAH does, as he has never received (or shared with me) a proper diagnosis.
As I said in my post, I am not really hung up on the labels, and I have been unhooking myself from labels in general around this person in my life. Just know that I have progressively allowed myself to become shredded since I met him.
I Just wanted to share this book because it helps, with tools. .
It really does. It could be about diabetes, for gods sake, but what she says in the book helps me get past the blind spots in my head, ones that have imprisoned me for a decade. I am not buddhist but sometimes I chant, because it helps.
Sorry to offend anyone.
I think you misread.
She states that large percentage of NPDs become addicts, and within THAT percentage, that alcoholism is high.
I am sorry if your experiences are different.
I am not an expert on NPD, ,dont have it, and dont know if my RAH does, as he has never received (or shared with me) a proper diagnosis.
As I said in my post, I am not really hung up on the labels, and I have been unhooking myself from labels in general around this person in my life. Just know that I have progressively allowed myself to become shredded since I met him.
I Just wanted to share this book because it helps, with tools. .
It really does. It could be about diabetes, for gods sake, but what she says in the book helps me get past the blind spots in my head, ones that have imprisoned me for a decade. I am not buddhist but sometimes I chant, because it helps.
Sorry to offend anyone.
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BTW, Florence, the last three chapters or so are dedicated to practical, real life tools for speaking to, extricationg yourself from a conversation or disagreement with, or whatever ...
Your son may very well benefit from those tools. Anyone could in everyday life.
Your son may very well benefit from those tools. Anyone could in everyday life.
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I wasn't offended, I was just discussing. I got what she said, just sounds odd to me, but then I'm no expert.
I agree--lots of times literature about one issue is highly relevant to another. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the book!
I agree--lots of times literature about one issue is highly relevant to another. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the book!
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
Her suggestion is to recognize our part in the dance, really make the choice not to dance anymore. ANd follow the steps she lays forth.
I only hope that you are working on that part because that is something that isn't about his drinking or any personality disorder he may or may not have. An abuser is an abuser.
Hope you are seeking some type of support for that.
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Originally Posted by Babyblue
I have no idea the kind of abuse you experience but this sentence tells me that you have a certain level of blame for his abuse? That is classic thinking in someone who has been abused.
Her suggestion is to recognize our part in the dance, really make the choice not to dance anymore. ANd follow the steps she lays forth.
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Originally Posted by Babyblue
I have no idea the kind of abuse you experience but this sentence tells me that you have a certain level of blame for his abuse? That is classic thinking in someone who has been abused.
I only hope that you are working on that part because that is something that isn't about his drinking or any personality disorder he may or may not have. An abuser is an abuser.
Hope you are seeking some type of support for that.
I only hope that you are working on that part because that is something that isn't about his drinking or any personality disorder he may or may not have. An abuser is an abuser.
Hope you are seeking some type of support for that.
I also recognized, though, that there are some things that I would do that would make his behavior worse. Not that it was my fault, but that it was a known reaction, and so recognizing that behavior and trying to find a different solution while still protecting my sanity was in order.
Like how "detaching with love" doesn't work with an abusive relationship. Trying to detach was something I had control of, and while I recognize that his reaction to it was wrong, and that whatever he did it wasn't my fault, I also began to recognize that certain things I couldn't allow myself to detach from, because his reaction would be so much worse for me in the long run.
Whenever Al-Anon mentioned the "participation in the dance" with the Alcoholic, I would add things like this into it - knowing they weren't my fault, but knowing that for my sanity and safety I had to find a better way.
I did order the book, and I'll see what help I can get from it.
I do remember asking the psychologist here at work, "Can someone be a narcissist and a co-dependent?" because it seemed like XABF was always bending over backwards and going completely out of his way to help people he wasn't close to, but the closer he felt to someone emotionally the less he'd do for them and the more he'd expect them to do for him.
Recognizing that the "bending over backwards" was an attempt to gain acceptance to stroke his ego, now it makes perfect sense - but I was insanely confused at the time.
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My A also bends over backwards to "appear" to help others. Sometimes he seems genuine, but he tends to boast about it. He now hands money out to people. Literally. He likes the way they see him as sooo selfless.
I began to realize this was something he does to reflect back to himself how wonderful he is, but he seems to do that at a distance, but not so well w us.
Another way he does this is by talking and talking about his little boy, constantly telling everyone about him, posting fb status abt him, but he has only made time to see him 4 times in a month. All under an hour. It's all he is capable of. But to hear his friends tell it, he must see our son everyday.
I know NPD is extreme, and I suppose him just having heavy traits would be hard to deal with. But the tools she gives can apply no matter what.
My RAH sees himself as a real helper. And he is well liked out in the world. Unless he is busted or challenged by someone. Then he will turn on them in an instant.
I don't know why he does it, but whatever the reason, it is mind gamey on this end.
I began to realize this was something he does to reflect back to himself how wonderful he is, but he seems to do that at a distance, but not so well w us.
Another way he does this is by talking and talking about his little boy, constantly telling everyone about him, posting fb status abt him, but he has only made time to see him 4 times in a month. All under an hour. It's all he is capable of. But to hear his friends tell it, he must see our son everyday.
I know NPD is extreme, and I suppose him just having heavy traits would be hard to deal with. But the tools she gives can apply no matter what.
My RAH sees himself as a real helper. And he is well liked out in the world. Unless he is busted or challenged by someone. Then he will turn on them in an instant.
I don't know why he does it, but whatever the reason, it is mind gamey on this end.
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66
My A also bends over backwards to "appear" to help others...I began to realize this was something he does to reflect back to himself how wonderful he is...
Another way he does this is by talking and talking about his little boy, constantly telling everyone about him, posting fb status abt him, but he has only made time to see him 4 times in a month. All under an hour...
...Unless he is busted or challenged by someone. Then he will turn on them in an instant.
Another way he does this is by talking and talking about his little boy, constantly telling everyone about him, posting fb status abt him, but he has only made time to see him 4 times in a month. All under an hour...
...Unless he is busted or challenged by someone. Then he will turn on them in an instant.
NPDs like codependents because they are a good source of narcissistic supply, but NPDs completely demolish any person that comes into contact with them who can't erect good boundaries, which is probably why the author recommends Al-Anon to help people with Co-D behavior get away from them.
The thing I would really look into is "narcissistic supply" and "narcissistic injury" and whether this applies to your A. The last quote I pulled from your comment rang a bell for narcissistic injury. For example. my NPD is able to completely overlook any responsibility he had in damaging our romantic and co-parenting relationship -- ranging from lying, cheating, stealing money, spending our minor son's savings account, stalking me, harassing me at work as late as THIS MONTH -- because I hurt his feelings once (literally one time that he can name) twelve years ago. What I did (break up with him and date someone else in a completely above-the-board way) was so offensive to his narcissism that I am now his capital-E Enemy. If you asked him about any of the situations I just named, he would deny having done any of them, even though I have documented proof of all of it. His anger for me today is the same as it was twelve years ago and shows no signs of abating, and it's entirely because I don't believe the carefully constructed image he has of himself AND because I have no problem reminding him that it's all ******** (if I was smart, I'd stop doing that).
The situation with our son is more complicated. My NPD fulfills all that is legally required of him to remain a joint custody holder with me, but no more. He pays his child support on time and uses every visitation he is allotted. But my son is asked to stay in his room for the majority of time at his dad's, is asked to babysit or flat out care for the baby brother that (quite literally) replaced him while NPD naps or plays video games. One time, he let a girlfriend buy our son a Corgi puppy after they'd been together for just a few weeks, made a huge deal about it and our son was thrilled. But when he and the new girl broke up a couple of months later he made the girl take the dog with her. Or my favorite one: Last month, for his wedding anniversary to his new wife, he took himself to Disneyworld for three days and left his wife and three kids at home!
If it weren't infuriating, it would be hilarious.
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Just came back to re-read and ran across this.
Just thought I'd say, I love how I use the word "always". 
In this case, "always" means "since January 2011".
Even when I found Al-Anon, I was always feeling that I did have some part in it. When the kind people here pointed out he was abusive, and I started reading Why Does He Do That? everything clicked, and now I can look back and see all that.
Now that I know the name of the beast, I can take better care of myself when I have to come in contact with him, which is always unwelcome at this point (we went no-contact around the time I started to learn these things). I can stand strong now (when I have to be - then I'm a quivering mess once he's gone and I can let down my guard), but it's very easy to get sucked into the blameshifting.
Originally Posted by StarCat
I always viewed that XABF's behaviors were his, and his alone.
In this case, "always" means "since January 2011".
Even when I found Al-Anon, I was always feeling that I did have some part in it. When the kind people here pointed out he was abusive, and I started reading Why Does He Do That? everything clicked, and now I can look back and see all that.
Now that I know the name of the beast, I can take better care of myself when I have to come in contact with him, which is always unwelcome at this point (we went no-contact around the time I started to learn these things). I can stand strong now (when I have to be - then I'm a quivering mess once he's gone and I can let down my guard), but it's very easy to get sucked into the blameshifting.
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She discusses Narcissistic supply in that book, as well as Original and continued narcissistic injury.
My A actually plays a very good game out in acting falsely humble. He does it so over the top, that I cannot believe how some people go in for it...then I remember I was one of them.
He will openly admit that he does it because he feels actually quite superior. And he doesnt want to offend anyone with his brilliance, LOL>..he actually feels that way. He is now, while sober showing less and less of an ability to edit these statements. The grandiosity of himselfism is off the chart. And its not manic in nature.
My A has several deeds that I did to harm him several years ago. HE did all of it and more in spades for years, but he still brings up the one time I mistakenly thought his younger brother was older than him...it is so offensive to him. He becomes obsessed with it, he will call me mid day, middle of the night, out of the blue to rage at me over that mistake. How could I think such a thing? Do I think his brother is more attractive? MOre capable?
You are quite right, if it were not so maddening it would be hilarious.
ANd I think your assessment is right when you say you should stop calling him out. I am finding, even if he knows I jknow who he really is, and that I am "onto him"..he will play nice and be civil as long as I sort of play along in everyday niceteies. Its as if he wants me to agree to take part in his charade in which he is the audience, the one being fooled.
This "playing along", does not have to be spoken of, or seen or felt as a defeat. I started to figure this out recently. I can let him be his strange phony self, and not have to shatter his glass. I can get what I need from him for child, protect child, protect myself, and smile and give him the minimum. nd as long as I say, "uh huh..." he doesnt care if it is convincing or not, as long as I dont rock his narcissitic image boat.
This book talks about how to live with the narcissist and let live, without losing your heart or your mind.
I think for me, the thing about my RAH that would be the equivalent to the Disneyland story, the one that really clinched it into perspective for me, was this past month, when our son had to undergo serious surgery to remediate nerve damage caused by a benign brain tumor.
It has been 2 1/2 years of anxiety about the tumor, the eye going blind, the damage to other nerve systems, the psychological stress he was under, being teased for the drooping eye....It wasnt until the surgery did not go as smoothly as planned and his recovery took a lot longer than normal, with a suture coming loose, there was discomfort, he was lashing out from being poked and prodded so much He developed a severe stomach pain reaction to stress coupled with the medication and general anesthesia..
I was struggling everyday to make him comfortable. RAHs mom and dad, my sister, and friends were coming over, to help, to comfort, calling to check in about HOW SON WAS FEELING, how he was DOING. ...
All the while RAH, who told anyone who would listen how hard this surgery was FOR HIM> the hardest day of his life...the hardest challenge to his sobriety... He moaned and whined about how he was going to handle it. He came to the actual hospital for surgery. I had to convince him to come over after to keep son company. He stayed that night, and in the 3 solid weeks of stress, pain, and confusion about whther the eye would EVEN WORK AGAIN, my RAH came by twice. for under an hour each. He managed to do this in between obsessive phone calls during which his response to me telling him that the pain had not stopped, the boy was waking up crying out in pain from his stomach, had torn at his eye in his sleep, was this,
"Is HE GoINg to LOOK OK?"
I would redirect the conversation to the pain, the torn muscle...things were not really at a point to think about that, we need to get the recovery normalized...but, all he could do was talk about whether his boy was going to look 'NORMAL".
And the occassional pity party over how hard it was for him(RAH, not 6 year old patient..) to 'go through this'.
He was hanging out at a bar playing pool EVERY night. not drinking. telling people about how awful it was for him to deal with his son being in pain.
Does that sound narcissistic to you? My sons counselor met RAH at the hospital for lunch with me. He spoke to him for about 25 minutes. He could barely get a word in edgewise. All RAH talked about was his struggle. How hard this was for him. Counselor was blown away. I think he thought I was exagerrating.
My A actually plays a very good game out in acting falsely humble. He does it so over the top, that I cannot believe how some people go in for it...then I remember I was one of them.
He will openly admit that he does it because he feels actually quite superior. And he doesnt want to offend anyone with his brilliance, LOL>..he actually feels that way. He is now, while sober showing less and less of an ability to edit these statements. The grandiosity of himselfism is off the chart. And its not manic in nature.
My A has several deeds that I did to harm him several years ago. HE did all of it and more in spades for years, but he still brings up the one time I mistakenly thought his younger brother was older than him...it is so offensive to him. He becomes obsessed with it, he will call me mid day, middle of the night, out of the blue to rage at me over that mistake. How could I think such a thing? Do I think his brother is more attractive? MOre capable?
You are quite right, if it were not so maddening it would be hilarious.
ANd I think your assessment is right when you say you should stop calling him out. I am finding, even if he knows I jknow who he really is, and that I am "onto him"..he will play nice and be civil as long as I sort of play along in everyday niceteies. Its as if he wants me to agree to take part in his charade in which he is the audience, the one being fooled.
This "playing along", does not have to be spoken of, or seen or felt as a defeat. I started to figure this out recently. I can let him be his strange phony self, and not have to shatter his glass. I can get what I need from him for child, protect child, protect myself, and smile and give him the minimum. nd as long as I say, "uh huh..." he doesnt care if it is convincing or not, as long as I dont rock his narcissitic image boat.
This book talks about how to live with the narcissist and let live, without losing your heart or your mind.
I think for me, the thing about my RAH that would be the equivalent to the Disneyland story, the one that really clinched it into perspective for me, was this past month, when our son had to undergo serious surgery to remediate nerve damage caused by a benign brain tumor.
It has been 2 1/2 years of anxiety about the tumor, the eye going blind, the damage to other nerve systems, the psychological stress he was under, being teased for the drooping eye....It wasnt until the surgery did not go as smoothly as planned and his recovery took a lot longer than normal, with a suture coming loose, there was discomfort, he was lashing out from being poked and prodded so much He developed a severe stomach pain reaction to stress coupled with the medication and general anesthesia..
I was struggling everyday to make him comfortable. RAHs mom and dad, my sister, and friends were coming over, to help, to comfort, calling to check in about HOW SON WAS FEELING, how he was DOING. ...
All the while RAH, who told anyone who would listen how hard this surgery was FOR HIM> the hardest day of his life...the hardest challenge to his sobriety... He moaned and whined about how he was going to handle it. He came to the actual hospital for surgery. I had to convince him to come over after to keep son company. He stayed that night, and in the 3 solid weeks of stress, pain, and confusion about whther the eye would EVEN WORK AGAIN, my RAH came by twice. for under an hour each. He managed to do this in between obsessive phone calls during which his response to me telling him that the pain had not stopped, the boy was waking up crying out in pain from his stomach, had torn at his eye in his sleep, was this,
"Is HE GoINg to LOOK OK?"
I would redirect the conversation to the pain, the torn muscle...things were not really at a point to think about that, we need to get the recovery normalized...but, all he could do was talk about whether his boy was going to look 'NORMAL".
And the occassional pity party over how hard it was for him(RAH, not 6 year old patient..) to 'go through this'.
He was hanging out at a bar playing pool EVERY night. not drinking. telling people about how awful it was for him to deal with his son being in pain.
Does that sound narcissistic to you? My sons counselor met RAH at the hospital for lunch with me. He spoke to him for about 25 minutes. He could barely get a word in edgewise. All RAH talked about was his struggle. How hard this was for him. Counselor was blown away. I think he thought I was exagerrating.
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Buffalo66, yes it sure does. Be careful of diagnosing him yourself, but I wouldn't hesitate to do your research to keep you and your son safe. I had a therapist recommend essentially what you're doing:
(If you look at any NPD stuff online, they all basically say the same thing. NPDs will suck out everything you've got and some stuff you didn't know you had too, and they'll hoover at your kids and your parents and their parents and your coworkers and their coworkers and parents' kids' coworkers and fray nerves you didn't know existed. If you come face to face with a narcissist, RUN.)
I am finding, even if he knows I jknow who he really is, and that I am "onto him"..he will play nice and be civil as long as I sort of play along in everyday niceteies. Its as if he wants me to agree to take part in his charade in which he is the audience, the one being fooled. This "playing along", does not have to be spoken of, or seen or felt as a defeat. I started to figure this out recently. I can let him be his strange phony self, and not have to shatter his glass. I can get what I need from him for child, protect child, protect myself, and smile and give him the minimum. nd as long as I say, "uh huh..." he doesnt care if it is convincing or not, as long as I dont rock his narcissitic image boat. "
I complained to her that it's the exact opposite of how I would normally behave. I am honest to a fault, so honest that I can't lie, and playing along with him feels so WRONG. She said, "Sure it does, but he's not rational, is he? If you met a madman in an alley, would you challenge his view of himself or would you say whatever was necessary to get him out of your face and get to safety?" (If you look at any NPD stuff online, they all basically say the same thing. NPDs will suck out everything you've got and some stuff you didn't know you had too, and they'll hoover at your kids and your parents and their parents and your coworkers and their coworkers and parents' kids' coworkers and fray nerves you didn't know existed. If you come face to face with a narcissist, RUN.)
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Florence, How long did you try to convince yourself that he wasnt that bad?
I mean, did you tell yourself it had to be this or that?
Did he get a diagnosis? Was that it?
I am curious, because to this day, and every moment its a struggle to accept, but to this day I sometimes tell myself I am being too harsh. I doubt my assessment of his behavior. I know that IS his main game, but... I think of him and he is just a person. It is hard to write someone off as a reptile, of sorts.
how did you finally do it?
I mean, did you tell yourself it had to be this or that?
Did he get a diagnosis? Was that it?
I am curious, because to this day, and every moment its a struggle to accept, but to this day I sometimes tell myself I am being too harsh. I doubt my assessment of his behavior. I know that IS his main game, but... I think of him and he is just a person. It is hard to write someone off as a reptile, of sorts.
how did you finally do it?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
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Originally Posted by StarCat
I do remember asking the psychologist here at work, "Can someone be a narcissist and a co-dependent?" because it seemed like XABF was always bending over backwards and going completely out of his way to help people he wasn't close to, but the closer he felt to someone emotionally the less he'd do for them and the more he'd expect them to do for him.
Recognizing that the "bending over backwards" was an attempt to gain acceptance to stroke his ego, now it makes perfect sense - but I was insanely confused at the time.
Recognizing that the "bending over backwards" was an attempt to gain acceptance to stroke his ego, now it makes perfect sense - but I was insanely confused at the time.
Originally Posted by Buffalo66
My A also bends over backwards to "appear" to help others. Sometimes he seems genuine, but he tends to boast about it. He now hands money out to people. Literally. He likes the way they see him as sooo selfless.
I began to realize this was something he does to reflect back to himself how wonderful he is, but he seems to do that at a distance, but not so well w us.
I began to realize this was something he does to reflect back to himself how wonderful he is, but he seems to do that at a distance, but not so well w us.
I'm not saying XAH also has NPD, I think he's just an abusive a--hat, but similarities still astound me.
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