LawMama

Hi everyone....I am working the steps with a good sponsor. I feel like I am moving through it slowly because I want to be sure I have it before I just rush through the steps. My biggest issue has been that I have been agnostic a long time....I was raised Christian (Lutheran) and at one point was very involved in organized religion. However, I always had lingering doubts and have had trouble believing in any organized religion because I, of course, am a logical person. So while I believed in a higher power, I didn't name my higher power or share that higher power with a community of others.

Now working step 2-3, I realize I just need to become willing, and I am willing to believe there is a power greater than me. But the idea of turning my will over to that power when I don't truly understand what my higher power is....that I am resisting. I feel like some of my anxiety and irritability would subside if I could turn things over to my higher power but it is still a struggle for me.

Do any of you have similar stories you would like to share? I'm not sure if I'm looking for "advice," since this is going to have to come from within for me, but perhaps hearing from people who have gone through similar things will help.

Thanks in advance.

LawMama

Sorry, just realized I think I posted this in the wrong place.

bellakeller

The gift of being desperate to recover and reading Chapter 4 in the Big Book was enough for me.

We Agnostics - Chapter 4

Boleo

What makes you think any of us "understand" what our higher power is?

I have yet to meet anyone who can define their higher power better than they can define UFO's. "Understand" has nothing to do with it.

Willingness is the key. Open-mindedness is the only requirement to start with. Trust is the best we can end up with.

Not that some struggle is not required. Go ahead, give it your best shot. When you have given it a 100% effort - surrender, detach, let go.

bellakeller

Also, and I seem to do things back-assed wards, but I was unable to do step three until I was willing to let go of some major resentments first (see step 4). That was there only way I could make room for anything else. I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch...so I don't know if it will help.

kiki5711

I'm not religious either, nor have I become religious because of the religious undertone in the recovery steps.

You have an incredible power in you to do anything you want. We all do. It's just covered up with layers of depressed dirt that won't allow us to see light of day.

I'm still going through the new "sober" emotions on a daily basis. I'm seeing and feeling things that I don't want to deal with and that I use to "medicate" with alcohol or meds. I am now fully alert and it's annoying as hell sometimes.

It's like I have to re-program my train of thought every single day. I realize though that it will take quite some time to reprogram myself. I've been use to for toooo long to run down the highway to hell and actually liking it and being proud of it. It took me a while to realize that all that "control" I thought I had, was NOT!! It was controlling me and I'll be damned if I'm going to let it control me.

If I'm going to have to live with an addictive personality, it might as well be an addiction to something healthy for once.

Mark75

I learned from a guy who used to post here at SR. He taught me that once I did step three, turned my life and my will over to my higher power, that what happens now as I go forward is not up to me, it's none of my business... it's His

My own experience? For me it's been one of trust and detachment... and it's progress not perfection.

There is no way to adequately explain my higher power, God... I just know He's there and I (try) to let go absolutely.

Antiderivative

I am a non-believer. I can't really relate to Step 3 regarding a HP, but I will share with what I can relate to. At the end of Step 3 in the 12&12 it states, Our whole trouble had been the misuse of willpower. We had tried to bombard our problems with it instead of attempting to bring it into agreement with God's intention for us.

I can relate to the misuse of my willpower, but I cannot relate to bringing it into agreement with God's intention for me. I have experienced the so called self-will run riot. Most of my troubles in life have a common denominator: ME. Many of my troubles have been self-making.

Conversely, is willpower bad? Not necessarily. It is needed to accomplish goals in one's life, such as sobriety or one's life dreams. Without willpower, you cannot progress and grow in life.

Step 2 talks about being restored to sanity. Sanity means "healthy condition" or "soundness of mind". Once you are restored to sanity, you are able to make sound decisions. You are able to distinguish the difference between misuse of willpower and proper use of willpower.

There is an agnostic version of the steps. You can give them a brief view you'd like.
http://www.agnosticaanyc.org/12steps.html

AW2486

Keep an open mind, be willing, do the the action steps and you may not be agnostic anymore when your done.

shaun00

Sounds similar to my experience.......i was raised in a fairly stiff religious home.

In order to progress and trust.....with steps 2 and 3 i had to unravel some twisted up perceptions of what i believed to be the truth about god.

My belief and perception of that god or highpower has become something that isnt based in fear any longer........my own perception rather than someone elses if you get me.

You have your own belief........so do you have the willingness to "let go"..
boleo summed up the requirement for this step imo.....when he used the word "trust"....compared to you running the show..what you got to lose?..

Its nice to see you here....

DayTrader

Boleo said something that I think is key....whatever your conception of God is, I doubt you'll understand "him/her/it." What if you're using "the power of the universe," how could one ever truly understand where gravity comes from, why it exists, why everything is the way it is? I realized that while I believed there was (is) a God, I really knew very little about Him (pardon the male overtones....it's just habit and it's easier than typing out all the possibilities). It's possible that, over time, I may come to know Him.....but I don't know that I have the ability to understand Him. I doubt I'll ever be able to wrap my head around "been in existence forever and will continue forever." Infinity is a mind-boggling thing - for me anyway.

It also helped me to realize #3 says turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understand him rather than "turning our live over to God." What's the difference, you may ask? Turning "it" over to His care means that whatever happens, it's in His hands. I'm just the worker, he's the business owner. I come in, run my machine for the time I'm supposed to be there, and He worries about all the other stuff. This helps me focus on my "job" and to get out of the roll I think I have as master of the universe. I'm NOT in control of everything. I don't chart the course, manage everything, do everything and have the responsibility for everything. I do what I'm supposed to do to the best of my ability and leave it at that.

"to the care of"......here's what that means to me: First off, we're going to quit getting so wrapped up in the results. We try to become human beings vs. human doings. In other words, we just ARE.....we be no matter what we do.....we're ppl.... we are not our actions...we are ppl who DO actions but we BE regardless of those actions. If I'm good to you one moment that doesn't make me a good person. If I'm mean to you the next moment that doesn't' make me bad. I be either way....my actions are indicative of how I'm feeling and what I'm thinking but they don't make me who I am. They're just what I do. ....that doesn't abdicate me from any responsibility, mind you....but my actions (especially my past actions) are not "who I am" they're just "what I did."

Now, about the "made a decision." First off, take a look at the word DECISION.
According to Webster, DECISION is: a : the act or process of deciding b : a determination arrived at after consideration : conclusion <make a decision>

Decision (the word) is rooted in the word DECIDE, which means: a : to make a final choice or judgment about <decide what to do> b : to select as a course of action —used with an infinitive <decided to go>

So we're making a choice and choosing a course of action.....but what action????........ the action of continuing on with the steps. Step 3, deciding, is done in our mind but we demonstrate that we've made that decision by starting step 4 - by starting our inventory.

By now, you've likely discovered that whatever that power greater than you IS.....it's not you, right? Ok, let's lay "God" aside for a moment and just use "AA" as a power greater than you.......which it is whether you care to admit it or not. If I'm going to turn my life over to the care of AA, and AA tells me to do this, that, and the other....then I should try to do those things. I'm trusting them to be my caregiver....and they tell me to do the rest of the steps. All I'm doing in 3 is realizing that they seem to have a better formula for living than I do on my own, so I'm going to trust that they care for me and follow their direction. I'm going to demonstrate that I've made this decision by backing it up with moving onto step 4.

.......at the risk of making this post SO long you won't read it....lol....my experience is that 99.9999999999% of the ppl who have problems with step 3 aren't REALLY having problems with step 3. They're having problems with the 1st step. Ya see, if I really think I DO have some power over alcohol, that I CAN keep myself from getting drunk again, and that I CAN manage my life better than I have.......then there's no reason to implement step 2 and since I'm really powerful, I'm in control, my life's manageable, and I was insane when I was drinking but thanks to my brilliant mind and my power I'm now better........then I don't need to turn my live over to anyone or anything's care.

I've posted this before but I'll say it again: DO NOT BE SO EGOTISTICAL AS TO THINK YOU'RE GOING TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL THESE STEPS YOUR FIRST TIME THROUGH THEM. I made that very same mistake.... I'd get a bit of a grasp of a step then just haaaaaaaaang on it for weeks....or months.....till I felt I really understood it. Guess what, that's a great example of ME being in charge of my sobriety, me being the boss, and me being the manager again. Your first time through is meant to be done rather quickly....you're not supposed to get everything.....nor could you.

I've played golf for 30 years (much longer than I've been sober) - I understand things about the game now that I couldn't possibly have understood in my first week, first year or first 10 years. It's taken decades of discovery to understand little things about my swing.....details I couldn't have considered or comprehended when I was starting out because, back then, I was just trying to hit the ball whereas now I'm trying to hit is in specific ways. Your first time through the steps.....just work on hitting the ball, getting up on the green, try to putt then go to the next tee....remember I get to tee the ball up, then swing away again. Recovery is like that.....just get the fundamentals down first.....you've got the rest of your life to work on the fine tuning!

LexieCat

I think of Step 3 as a natural outgrowth from Steps One and Two. It has to do with realizing how little power we have over so many things, and ceasing to struggle for control. When I'm stressing out over something (as I was a few weeks ago about a huge work project), I literally have trouble breathing, I'm willing so hard for it to go my way. When I do the work and let go of the outcome, trusting that my HP will take care of the results, I'm much calmer and more serene. I can think more clearly what must be done next. In fact, I trust that I will be shown (able to see) what must be done next. "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone even alcohol."

LawMama

Thank you all so much for your input....I'm digesting it all right now but some awesome feedback from each of you.

oak

For me, step 3 reminds me of my belief that we all have a calling/purpose here on earth. So I think of step 3 as aligning with that calling/purpose. (Helps me with the 11th step also.)

I think it is cool that you are taking your time going through the steps and really understanding them in your own way.

NoelleR

"...I am willing to believe there is a power greater than me. But the idea of turning my will over to that power..."

I understand your confusion, however, Step-3 says, "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood him."

I've always believed in working the steps exactly as they're written, regardless how others have worked, or are working, them (including the founders). I don't see anywhere in that step that says we must turn our will and our lives over (to anything, or anyone); it only states that we make a decision to do so (and forget about the frogs, plz), to which I said, "Okey dokey," and went right into Step-4.

I'm a firm believer in keeping things very simple (and easy too).


(o:
NoelleR

Music

Hi Mama and welcome. I was exactly where you are when I came to AA. A number of things were blocking my path to a Higher Power not the least of which was the idea that I was such a rotten person that no god or higher power would want anything to do with me. (EGO) You mentioned being a very logical person. Well, some things defy logic and logic doesn't always make sense. When I look back now, I remember how I felt when I thought myself as being logical. I thought I was thinking really deep, when in fact, I was trying to justify my actions, and I felt good because of my attitude about religious people being unable to govern their own life without the help of a god.....like I was doing such a good job. (EGO) The problem as it turns out is that I was just unwilling to "believe". That's all it takes! Like when I came to AA, I just believed what my sponor told me, that if I read and studied the Big Book, went to meetings and worked the steps I would never have to take another drink. I wanted to get sober so I believed what he said. When I got to the part about a higher power, I wanted to get sober so I came up with my own idea about what my higher power would be. Since then, I've followed the path back to organized religion but was still hesitant when it came to completely believing in God and especially in Jesus. I was at mass one Sunday and was still doubtful when one word popped into my mind. "Believe." I was raised Methodist and a little over three years ago I was confirmed Catholic. I'm happier than ever, not because all of a sudden things made sense or became logical. They didn't! Some things just don't/can't make sense or suddenly become logical. I just believe like with any history, I just believe things happened the way the other Big Book says they happened. That's all! When I started to believe, the barriers came down and I'm free. Doesn't matter what others think or believe. Doesn't matter whether things make sense or not. Nothing matters but that I believe and I feel free. I'm happy! As with being a member of AA, I'm trying to be a good member of my parrish and give my time and the gifts of my past in any way I can. My dilema was do remain logical and demand proof while keeping those barriers up so that nothing can be proven, or do I decide to believe and open the door for the possibility that four thousand years if history and billions of people might just have a point. After all, when push comes to shove, the only thing I really know is what's happened since the day I was born. The rest I have to rely on books, pictures and what people say. I have to believe.

keithj

Howdy LawMama.

I came into AA as a staunch atheist. For reasons well described in our BB, I was willing to believe, even though I didn't believe.

Alright, Step 2 done. Just like me.

Like others have said, make a decision. There is absolutely no requirement for understanding what your higher power is. There are requirements for accepting that my life run on self-will is not working for me. By making that decision, and doing my 4th Step, I got awakened to the truth about my reliance on self and the level of my selfishness.

If I had to wait until I 'understood' God, I'd still be waiting. And still be drunk I'm sure.

DayTrader

Right on. A 4th step, done the way the literature advises us, will give you a lot of clarity about yourself, God, and the first 3 steps. Just like many before me, I stalled on 3 waiting until I felt I "understood" it....the 4th step helped a lot in that regard. Sure would like to have that time I wasted "thinking" about the 3rd step back.