Does anyone stay?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 10
Does anyone stay?
I've been on this site for a few weeks, and while it seems like there is a tiny number of people who are staying with alcoholics, most of the posts seem to be centered around leaving, staying strong after leaving, or working up the courage to leave. I was excited to find this site, and still am, because everyone on it seems to be so supportive and kind, and they know what I go through.
But, I have to admit, it scares me at the same time, because I get the impression that everyone assumes that the path to being healthy involves leaving the alcoholic. Is that what AlAnon is about, getting strong enough to leave the alcoholic? I'm not being sarcastic at all, I just want to understand. Or, is it that most (all?) people who are, for lack of a better word, "healthy" don't stay with an alcoholic? Does being with an alcoholic, or wanting to stick it out automatically make me "sick" in some way? Does it automatically mean I'm codependent and can't be healthy until I leave?
I guess I'm wondering if I can be healthy, or as healthy as possible and still be with him. Because that's what I want. To stay. I don't want to be his hero, his savior. I just want to be his girlfriend. Does that mean that I'm unhealthy? Please help me understand.
But, I have to admit, it scares me at the same time, because I get the impression that everyone assumes that the path to being healthy involves leaving the alcoholic. Is that what AlAnon is about, getting strong enough to leave the alcoholic? I'm not being sarcastic at all, I just want to understand. Or, is it that most (all?) people who are, for lack of a better word, "healthy" don't stay with an alcoholic? Does being with an alcoholic, or wanting to stick it out automatically make me "sick" in some way? Does it automatically mean I'm codependent and can't be healthy until I leave?
I guess I'm wondering if I can be healthy, or as healthy as possible and still be with him. Because that's what I want. To stay. I don't want to be his hero, his savior. I just want to be his girlfriend. Does that mean that I'm unhealthy? Please help me understand.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
No, Alanon is not about making you strong enough to leave, it's about making you strong enough to live. Not everyone's situation is the same. There are success stories, but it depends on the strength of the people involved. If you can live a happy fulfilling life while staying married to your alcoholic, then more power to you. If your alcoholic chooses to get help for his problem and you make the decision to stay with him during that time, then great!
Al-anon teaches you how to take care of yourself. What you choose to do with that knowledge is your own business.
Al-anon teaches you how to take care of yourself. What you choose to do with that knowledge is your own business.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 464
no it does,ent..try not to help him destroy himselfd in his chosen path if you can....nothing is black and white here, every situation is different...in my case i have been buying the booze all of the time to help her destroy herself this has to stop...if you can cohabitate and your partner is caring..but destroying themselves ...and you are not helping then all good...sorry didnt mean the ending to soundlike that....each person chooses to do or die in this world of abuse...you can not change there choice...but caringly offer an alternative..good luck freind..
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
People leave because of the reality of alcoholism. The reality is this: s/he will continue to drink no matter what promises s/he make. S/He will lie to you. S/He will throws you under the bus whenever s/he can. S/He will treat you ugly: blame you for things that aren't your fault, guilt you, insult you, rage at you, break your things, steal you money, be unreasoably demanding, eventually become physically abusive as well as psychologically and emotionally abusive. Nothing will ever be sacred or off limits for him/her. They will use and mooch off of you. They will take you down with them, they will take your children down with them. They will neer appreciate what you do for them. They will never notice the sacrifices you make for them. Whatever you do will never be enough. They demand unending support, but never give it in return. They kick you when you are down and blame you for being hurt. They become disgusting: chronic diarrhea, peeing the bed, vomiting every where. They are embarassing: to your family, to the neighbors, to your colleagues. They are dangerous, they drive, they make bad decisions, they become violent. They take all your money...thru job loss, booz buying, legal problems, medical problems, ruined property. They distort the lives of your kids. They absorb your attention for themselves when you ought to be spending it on your children, so even though your kids are well fed, clean and clothed, they are neglected. And the things they witness--they become disgusted and afraid not only of him, but of you too.
And as bad as it is today, it will be worse a month from now, worse still more a year from now. it's always progressive, unless they recover.
And if they recover. Expect at LEAST 7 false starts; that's average. Only a quarter if that ever go into serious recovery, and when they do they spend a year focused on themselves. They almost never are sorry. You are supposed to be sooooo delighted at their progress that you extend instant forgiveness. They will never in drinking and usually not even in recovery ever make full amends for the damage they've done. They will never tend to the wounds they've afflicted upon you.
Years of your life can disappear along with money, property, your kids' childhoods, friends, family, and your mental health. Make no mistake, as you throw your lot in with him and he drags you down, you family and friends become confused and disgusted and fade away. they don't understand why you stay (do you?), and they lose respect for you.
Can you be happy and healthy staying with that?
That's why most end up leaving.
And as bad as it is today, it will be worse a month from now, worse still more a year from now. it's always progressive, unless they recover.
And if they recover. Expect at LEAST 7 false starts; that's average. Only a quarter if that ever go into serious recovery, and when they do they spend a year focused on themselves. They almost never are sorry. You are supposed to be sooooo delighted at their progress that you extend instant forgiveness. They will never in drinking and usually not even in recovery ever make full amends for the damage they've done. They will never tend to the wounds they've afflicted upon you.
Years of your life can disappear along with money, property, your kids' childhoods, friends, family, and your mental health. Make no mistake, as you throw your lot in with him and he drags you down, you family and friends become confused and disgusted and fade away. they don't understand why you stay (do you?), and they lose respect for you.
Can you be happy and healthy staying with that?
That's why most end up leaving.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by BrightFuture 
I guess I'm wondering if I can be healthy, or as healthy as possible and still be with him. Because that's what I want. To stay. I don't want to be his hero, his savior. I just want to be his girlfriend. Does that mean that I'm unhealthy? Please help me understand.
Here's what I learned from them:
You have to accept the alcoholic, exactly as they are.
Do not expect them to change--ever.
Create strong boundaries around what is not acceptable to you. (behavior)
Enforce those boundaries.
Detach and live your own life.
I needed to leave because I wasn't able to do even the first thing on that list. I couldn't accept him as he was, I wanted him to be something different. That wasn't fair to him or to me.
L
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by BrightFuture
it scares me at the same time, because I get the impression that everyone assumes that the path to being healthy involves leaving the alcoholic.
Can you do that?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
All I can add is that those are powerful and honest words from Bucyn.
I only got a SMALL taste of the above....but it was emotionally draining enough to never EVER want to put myself through the rest. If I think anyone has a drinking problem of any kind, that is someone I will keep at a very far distance. Just based on my experience.
I only got a SMALL taste of the above....but it was emotionally draining enough to never EVER want to put myself through the rest. If I think anyone has a drinking problem of any kind, that is someone I will keep at a very far distance. Just based on my experience.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
The thing about being somebody's "girlfriend," "wife," "life-partner," etc.... is that for me those terms all kinda assume the fact that there is actually somebody here (present) for me to be the "girlfriend," "wife," "life-partner" of.
Of course, other people's alcoholics may be different, but with my alcoholic, when she's not recovering, she's not present for me, for herself, or for anyone else. In fact, off the top of my head, I'd have to say that it is the entire purpose of the non-recovering alcoholic to avoid being present, to avoid reality, and to avoid life-on-life's terms...and the only "significant other" in her life when she's in her disease is whatever substance, activity or behavior she's using to try to accomplish that purpose.
So, for me to tell myself that I am -- in any meaningful, authentic, or rigorously honest sense -- the "girlfriend," "wife," or "life-partner" of a non-recovering alcoholic/addict would qualify as my lying to myself and denying reality every bit as much as the alcoholic/addict is....all of which, for me, = a VERY BIG NOT HEALTHY! In fact, what it equals very specifically is my being every bit as bat-sh*t crazy as her, without the excuse of a drug or a drink!
freya
....oh, and BTW, Al Anon is not about the alcoholic; it's about you and your learning to know, love and take and care of yourself. If you truly discover through your Step work that having as your significant other someone whose significant other is the bottle is consistent with your knowing, loving, and taking care of yourself then that's what works for you.
Of course, other people's alcoholics may be different, but with my alcoholic, when she's not recovering, she's not present for me, for herself, or for anyone else. In fact, off the top of my head, I'd have to say that it is the entire purpose of the non-recovering alcoholic to avoid being present, to avoid reality, and to avoid life-on-life's terms...and the only "significant other" in her life when she's in her disease is whatever substance, activity or behavior she's using to try to accomplish that purpose.
So, for me to tell myself that I am -- in any meaningful, authentic, or rigorously honest sense -- the "girlfriend," "wife," or "life-partner" of a non-recovering alcoholic/addict would qualify as my lying to myself and denying reality every bit as much as the alcoholic/addict is....all of which, for me, = a VERY BIG NOT HEALTHY! In fact, what it equals very specifically is my being every bit as bat-sh*t crazy as her, without the excuse of a drug or a drink!
freya
....oh, and BTW, Al Anon is not about the alcoholic; it's about you and your learning to know, love and take and care of yourself. If you truly discover through your Step work that having as your significant other someone whose significant other is the bottle is consistent with your knowing, loving, and taking care of yourself then that's what works for you.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
or maybe hands off her drinking her drama...as alcoholism is not a male dominated disease!!! tx.
Kerbcrawler-- uh, you seem a little defensive here, and NO ONE has stated that it is a male dominated disease. There are both men and women here who deal with the effects of alcoholism. However, the majority of posters here happen to be women, though not even the point..... this thread is in response to BrightFuture and in her relationship with HIM.
I'm sorry but your comment I found really out of place.
Kerbcrawler-- uh, you seem a little defensive here, and NO ONE has stated that it is a male dominated disease. There are both men and women here who deal with the effects of alcoholism. However, the majority of posters here happen to be women, though not even the point..... this thread is in response to BrightFuture and in her relationship with HIM.
I'm sorry but your comment I found really out of place.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
In my experience I could not imagine staying involved with an active A and being able to be healthy. I want a partner, whom I can trust and rely upon. You cannot do either of those with an active A, it is the nature of their disease and mindset while using. I used to compartmentalize his drinking and lying and really believe that I could predict when he was lying. I assumed he would never lie about me, our relationship, our future or cheating. He did lie about those things and more. It took months to figure it out as I had to find out from others. He lied and would never admit it. If you can take on the liklihood of that, stay detached and be able to be happy then maybe you could remain invloved with an active A. I am not that strong.
Note: mine left me and I was devastated. Never saw it coming, so even if you try to stay and think you have it under control, you don't. The disease makes people unpredictable.
Note: mine left me and I was devastated. Never saw it coming, so even if you try to stay and think you have it under control, you don't. The disease makes people unpredictable.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by Kerbcrawler
or maybe hands off her drinking her drama...as alcoholism is not a male dominated disease!!! tx.
That being said, male codependents are probably grossly under-represented in Alanon, typically IME it is rare to see a male sitting at an Alanon table with me, on the other side, most of the AA meetings I attend have anywhere from 20-30% females in attendance.
today4me
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 311
I would listen to others posts since experience speak volumes. I would also note that whatever you search for and find on the internet, you will find. Saying that, there are many other stories of both failure and success that are not even shared here.
I think Al Anon meetings are good. I believe many come together through it, some don't. The one common theme I'm observing though, is we put ourself first or gain respect back for ourselves. That is lost inn 90% of relationships involving A. So, read and interpet posts on here and pray for guidance. Trust Him. I am going NC and believe I have to move on. I am also hearing God say patience. I don't know that it means other than to keep doing what I'm doing. Which is trusting in Him and removing myself from the situation which was only getting worse month by month. If the relationship was getting better........I would of been married to her by know. That's pretty simple stepping back knowing that I had to turn away. I'm not married, so it's an easier decision.
Keep posting though as it helps us and keeps you healthy by talking about it.
I think Al Anon meetings are good. I believe many come together through it, some don't. The one common theme I'm observing though, is we put ourself first or gain respect back for ourselves. That is lost inn 90% of relationships involving A. So, read and interpet posts on here and pray for guidance. Trust Him. I am going NC and believe I have to move on. I am also hearing God say patience. I don't know that it means other than to keep doing what I'm doing. Which is trusting in Him and removing myself from the situation which was only getting worse month by month. If the relationship was getting better........I would of been married to her by know. That's pretty simple stepping back knowing that I had to turn away. I'm not married, so it's an easier decision.
Keep posting though as it helps us and keeps you healthy by talking about it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: norristown, pa
Posts: 14
I stayed when my husband was a drug addict and sought recovery in a rehab. We had an infant and almost lost the house, the car was repo'ed and went into bankruptcy. I loved him and tried to make it work. I didn't seek Al-anon because with an infant and trying to work to make money, along with him making money to pay the debt there just wasn't time or energy.
We had almost 20 years of sober living and it was great. He faulted again without my knowing and confessed to using script drugs and then alcohol to escape the debt he incurred once more. This time the debt was in his name and his alone.
I thought he was sober but found out he was closet drinking, heavily and was hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. He begged me to help him and we got him into a detox program and outpatient rehab where he is still attending.
I chose to stay for now till I see if he can get sober again and we can have the life we had. When he came out he was sober for 68 days. He relapsed last weekend but told me it made him realize how horrible it made him feel.
My guard is up and I went to my first al-anon meeting this past week. Their motto is you can learn to live with your AH and still be healthy. I don't want a life if he is actively drinking/drugging, I want a sober life with him. Time will tell.
We had almost 20 years of sober living and it was great. He faulted again without my knowing and confessed to using script drugs and then alcohol to escape the debt he incurred once more. This time the debt was in his name and his alone.
I thought he was sober but found out he was closet drinking, heavily and was hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. He begged me to help him and we got him into a detox program and outpatient rehab where he is still attending.
I chose to stay for now till I see if he can get sober again and we can have the life we had. When he came out he was sober for 68 days. He relapsed last weekend but told me it made him realize how horrible it made him feel.
My guard is up and I went to my first al-anon meeting this past week. Their motto is you can learn to live with your AH and still be healthy. I don't want a life if he is actively drinking/drugging, I want a sober life with him. Time will tell.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
I think maybe we need to take a moment to define "success" here. There have been at least 2 instances so far on this thread where the word "success" has been used with the clear implication that "success" = "staying in relationship with the alcoholic."
I find this assumption to be highly questionable at best.
"Success" for an Al Anon member means working the Steps to the best of her/his ability and thereby discovering who she/he is, what she/he needs, and what she/he has to do to take care of her/himself, and then, with the help/support of her/his HP and the Fellowship, doing what she/he needs to do to realize all of that in her/his life -- whether the alcoholic finds his/her own recovery or not and whether the alcoholic is still in her/his life or not.
freya
I find this assumption to be highly questionable at best.
"Success" for an Al Anon member means working the Steps to the best of her/his ability and thereby discovering who she/he is, what she/he needs, and what she/he has to do to take care of her/himself, and then, with the help/support of her/his HP and the Fellowship, doing what she/he needs to do to realize all of that in her/his life -- whether the alcoholic finds his/her own recovery or not and whether the alcoholic is still in her/his life or not.
freya
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by freya
I think maybe we need to take a moment to define "success" here. There have been at least 2 instances so far on this thread where the word "success" has been used with the clear implication that "success" = "staying in relationship with the alcoholic."
I find this assumption to be highly questionable at best.
"Success" for an Al Anon member means working the Steps to the best of her/his ability and thereby discovering who she/he is, what she/he needs, and what she/he has to do to take care of her/himself, and then, with the help/support of her/his HP and the Fellowship, doing what she/he needs to do to realize all of that in her/his life -- whether the alcoholic finds his/her own recovery or not and whether the alcoholic is still in her/his life or not.
freya
I find this assumption to be highly questionable at best.
"Success" for an Al Anon member means working the Steps to the best of her/his ability and thereby discovering who she/he is, what she/he needs, and what she/he has to do to take care of her/himself, and then, with the help/support of her/his HP and the Fellowship, doing what she/he needs to do to realize all of that in her/his life -- whether the alcoholic finds his/her own recovery or not and whether the alcoholic is still in her/his life or not.
freya
For me, as I began to work the principles of Alanon in my daily life, as I began to understand what it was to truly take care of self, I found my tolerance for dysfunction rapidly disappearing, and that included allowing my 32 year old AD to bring her disease into my home and into my head, for that matter.
Personally I've never known of anyone firsthand who really dug into Alanon who stayed with an active alcoholic, but then I've lived in a little podunk redneck town of 3000 ever since I went through rehab myself in 1986!
If I were ever to have a partner in life again, it would be much different for me than my patterns with relationships in the past.
I deserve to be loved, cherished, and respected.
Alcoholism takes those things away.
Just my two cents.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 10
I have never been with an alcoholic before, or saw myself as "one of those people." I'm ashamed to admit it, very ashamed, but I was one of those people before, who, well, I guess looked down on people like I am now. I was outspoken, my family joked that I was so headstrong that guilt never worked on me. While I was growing up, I had a low tolerance for anyone with any drug problem or addiction. Drunks were annoying. My mother is a very accepting type, and takes people as they are, so a good number of her friends had substance problems. Not that I would ever see it first hand, but I was nosy enough as a child to find out, and ignorant enough to let those people know exactly what I thought of them.
So what happened?
Everyone who knows me, family and friends, ask, Why does he have this hold on you? What happened? Where is the girl we know? As you guys can probably relate to, I've pretty much stopped talking about my situation with friends. Part of it is because of my own shame, and part of it is because I can tell they are now the ones disgusted with me. The only one I can really talk to is my mom.
Life is so up and down; we really connect for a few days, then out of nowhere it all falls apart...sort of. He becomes distant, I'm left wondering why. After my post earlier, he woke up and was in an awful mood. He doesn't get violent or anything like that, but distant and moody. I could tell a storm was brewing.
My normal reaction is to just do my own thing and let him be, so I don't give him a reason to pick a fight. Long story short, he announced he needed space and wanted me to leave, to go for a walk at least or stay the night at my mom's. It hurt. Of course I'm thinking, what is wrong with us now? Does he want to drink? It wasn't that he wanted time to himself, it was the way he said it that scared me, made me insecure...like I was driving him crazy.
So I leave for an hour and a half (it's cold out!) and when I come back the storm door is deadbolted, so I can't use my key. Reluctantly he lets me in, but says I have to leave. I look around, and yes...he is drinking.
Sorry for the long post here, I guess I was just rambling. I needed to vent somewhere, it feels better to get it out. He's sitting there drinking, on the other side of the couch, after being gracious enough to let me stay. As pathetic as I feel right now, I don't want to leave. And I know that probably set him on an ego trip.
And to think just a few days ago...it was so great. But that's how it goes with him, I never know what today will bring
So what happened?
Everyone who knows me, family and friends, ask, Why does he have this hold on you? What happened? Where is the girl we know? As you guys can probably relate to, I've pretty much stopped talking about my situation with friends. Part of it is because of my own shame, and part of it is because I can tell they are now the ones disgusted with me. The only one I can really talk to is my mom.
Life is so up and down; we really connect for a few days, then out of nowhere it all falls apart...sort of. He becomes distant, I'm left wondering why. After my post earlier, he woke up and was in an awful mood. He doesn't get violent or anything like that, but distant and moody. I could tell a storm was brewing.
My normal reaction is to just do my own thing and let him be, so I don't give him a reason to pick a fight. Long story short, he announced he needed space and wanted me to leave, to go for a walk at least or stay the night at my mom's. It hurt. Of course I'm thinking, what is wrong with us now? Does he want to drink? It wasn't that he wanted time to himself, it was the way he said it that scared me, made me insecure...like I was driving him crazy.
So I leave for an hour and a half (it's cold out!) and when I come back the storm door is deadbolted, so I can't use my key. Reluctantly he lets me in, but says I have to leave. I look around, and yes...he is drinking.
Sorry for the long post here, I guess I was just rambling. I needed to vent somewhere, it feels better to get it out. He's sitting there drinking, on the other side of the couch, after being gracious enough to let me stay. As pathetic as I feel right now, I don't want to leave. And I know that probably set him on an ego trip.
And to think just a few days ago...it was so great. But that's how it goes with him, I never know what today will bring
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Is this your home, too? Is your name on the lease/mortgage? If so, he can't legally kick you out. (Perhaps Mr. Sunshine will just have to deal?).
My question to you would be what are you getting out of this relationship? It seems to me that having to walk around on eggshells because you are afraid you'll set him off is not a fun way to live. Home is supposed to be your shelter from the world....your soft spot to land.
I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this.
Hugs and prayers,
HG
My question to you would be what are you getting out of this relationship? It seems to me that having to walk around on eggshells because you are afraid you'll set him off is not a fun way to live. Home is supposed to be your shelter from the world....your soft spot to land.
I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this.
Hugs and prayers,
HG
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
Thanks for giving more clarification, brightfuture. Your story doesn't sound all that different from many here. Many times we ask what are you getting out of the relationship that keeps you in it? Sometimes it is financial reasons, other times it's fear of the unknown, sometimes it is fear that the alcoholic will drink him/herself to death if they leave. There are many reasons why someone chooses to stay in a relationship with an alcoholic/addict.
No one is going to chastise you if you don't want to leave. It is important, however, that you know your options, and learn how to take care of yourself regardless of what the alcoholic/addict decides to do. SR is a wonderful community of people on both sides of the fence who are willing to help you through this. Hopefully, you will stick around. Welcome.
No one is going to chastise you if you don't want to leave. It is important, however, that you know your options, and learn how to take care of yourself regardless of what the alcoholic/addict decides to do. SR is a wonderful community of people on both sides of the fence who are willing to help you through this. Hopefully, you will stick around. Welcome.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
It sounds like you are on the rollercoaster, as so many of us have been.
And like many of us, you have the choice of staying or leaving. You weigh the good against the bad every day when you wake up, and decide accordingly. Perhaps this is good enough for you now. No one can tell you otherwise -- you have to decide for yourself what you want out of a romantic relationship, and decide whether this one is meeting your needs.
For as long as it is, you'll tough it out despite treatment like you describe, and will feel "successful."
And if you wake up one day and decide that you want something more stable/loving/equal, you will find your own path away from alcoholism, and you will also feel "successful."
It is all about you, and your needs as a person. Some people can ride the rollercoaster for years, maybe decades. There is no one right way.
I was a victim of someone else's moods and needs for many years. I was absolutely convinced at the time that the happy periods were worth all the disrespect I suffered in between them.
Now, of course, I look back in horror at what I tolerated, and at how far I allowed myself to stray from my own moral and social compass. But no one could have convinced me at the time. I had to find out for myself what I wanted, in my own sweet time.
And like many of us, you have the choice of staying or leaving. You weigh the good against the bad every day when you wake up, and decide accordingly. Perhaps this is good enough for you now. No one can tell you otherwise -- you have to decide for yourself what you want out of a romantic relationship, and decide whether this one is meeting your needs.
For as long as it is, you'll tough it out despite treatment like you describe, and will feel "successful."
And if you wake up one day and decide that you want something more stable/loving/equal, you will find your own path away from alcoholism, and you will also feel "successful."
It is all about you, and your needs as a person. Some people can ride the rollercoaster for years, maybe decades. There is no one right way.
I was a victim of someone else's moods and needs for many years. I was absolutely convinced at the time that the happy periods were worth all the disrespect I suffered in between them.
Now, of course, I look back in horror at what I tolerated, and at how far I allowed myself to stray from my own moral and social compass. But no one could have convinced me at the time. I had to find out for myself what I wanted, in my own sweet time.
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