DonaldS

I'm interested to hear opinions about Step One--does unmanagability remain, or does it at some point go away...and, if it does, which step removes it? Ditto for powerlessness over alcohol--everlasting or does recovery change the situation?

chrisinaustin

If you are an alcoholic, following as a result of your honesty and awareness in steps one and two, in step three you permanently resign as CEO and a new executive management team is installed. With this new guidance, the enterprise prospers as never before. So to answer your question, the unmanageability problem is solved, but not by you. From step four onward, you, as the now newly appointed Director of Operations, begin executing the work of the new direction.

Boleo

It took me a long time to realize that the unmanagability part of step one had little to do with alcohol. In fact I was using alcohol to sweep it under the rug.

I now believe that 12 step programs have more than one step to deal with these non-drinking issues.

When does it go away? When:

"We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us."

findingout

Hi Donald,

Good questions. If my life was as unmanageable today as it was when I first got into the program, I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of the program. Same for the actual drinking part of the powerlessness over alcohol. In one sense, I am as powerless over alcohol as I was seven years ago but I have remained sober for seven years and I lost the obsession to drink sometime during my first year working the steps.

The book says both "precisely how we have recovered" and "what we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition." For me this means that something really does change as a result of working the steps but this change is not irreversible. If I stop doing what it takes for me to maintain my spiritual condition, I won't magically stay recovered. If I decide I no longer need to rely on my higher power, I am going find out why I do need to rely on my higher power all over again.

I can't pick out one or even two of the twelve steps which produced the change. The spiritual awakening is the ongoing result of working all the steps. I'd say steps ten and eleven are very important in helping me to separate the things I can change from the things I cannot change on daily basis, but without the nine steps which came before, I wouldn't see the need to change or the need to ask for help. It was those nine steps which made crystal clear that the program I worked for 25 year did not work and would never work.

Mark75

Good questions...

Like was said above, the unmanageability does not refer to alcohol... "our lives had become unmanageable..." Getting sober, working all the steps, having a spiritual awakening... once that happens we will find our lives becoming manageable. I like the analogy to the CEO that Chris brought to the discussion.

Your question on the powerlessness thing, not sure what you mean, exactly... Recovery in AA brings power into the life of the alcoholic... as long as the alcoholic doesn't drink... A lot like Superman... Pretty powerful guy, but keep him away from krypton, ya know?

Mark

keithj

Oh, I can look at that a couple of ways, all of them useful. In some cases it's just semantics, and other times that different perspective provides a different relationship to it.

On the simplest level, if I'm powerless over booze, if I've lost the power of choice in drink, if I'm doomed to pick up that first drink again, then by definition my life is unmanageable. I can make a decision to not drink, but I lack the power to manage that decision.

Then by Step 3, I see that life run on self-will can hardly be a success. This gets to the root of my trouble. My obsession with self, manifested in resentment and fear, makes my life unmanageable. I'm always fighting the against the current of the flow of life, instead of floating along with it. I'm always in collision. In that mode, I can never be satisfied, and thus never truly happy.

Do I ever get the power back? I don't think so. As the result of the Steps, I can no more take a drink today than I could not not take a drink prior.

DonaldS

Thank you all for the responses. Trying to patch them together, it seems that the spiritual awakening I gain from taking the steps gives me new power and life... but that it is dependent upon maintaining a certain simple attitude and can be lost through negligence... Is that close to a synopsis? I asked this question because I often hear members, even those with long term sobriety, (at least jokingly) refer to continued unmanageability.

yeahgr8

I spent a load of time with old timers in the first 5 months of getting sober and i heard them refer to unmanageability too but they were referring to specific things which they were still working on like seeming inability to save money or relationships of sorts...but not to drinking, because they don't drink anymore...i think also they were making a point on progress not perfection...

Let me put it like this the ones i am referring to ARE happy, joyous and free but are aware that they are still doing work in certain areas of their lives to improve their existence...thats they way i took it anyway?!

I have met a couple of people who have been sober for 20 years and their lives are unmaneagable but they just aren't interested in the spiritual side of things and are the first to make fun of it...i'm not judging anymore, for me i need the spiritual stuff and God or else i am toast...

Pagekeeper

My unmanageability is the bedevilments listed on page 52:

"We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people [ . . . ]"

Those bedevilments are resolved after (or during) the 9th step:

"We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves."

We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. The promises don't tell me I'll be serene and peaceful all the time--they only promise that I will comprehend and know what serenity and peace are having experienced them through making restitution. However, since I'm human, these bedevilments still crop up from time to time, which is why I need step 10.

This is trickier. I'm still powerless over alcohol, but the problem has been removed. I know it's a paradox. Here's an example, not sure how good of an example, but the best I can think of at the moment: I go to the grocery store at least a few times a week. I'm pretty positive I walk down the beer/wine aisle as I have bread and cottage cheese and all of the other foods on the same aisle as the alcohol. But I can't tell you the last time that I noticed the booze was on the same aisle as these other things. I walk down this aisle on a weekly basis, but the presence of alcohol never enters my conscious thoughts. I never think, "There's the beer!" I don't even notice it anymore. It's been removed. Hope that makes sense.

CAPTAINZING2000

Accepting I was not in control was and is very hard for this alcoholic.
Anyone of sane mind wouldn't have done the crazy things I've done in life.
When, I drank, I unleashed the beast.

My life couldn't of been managble. The police don't pick people at random and invite them to stay at the gray bar hotel for nothing

Stereosteveo

Powerless over Alcohol?:

Before the drink: Through the steps (mostly 4-9 I would say to answer your question)God has given me the power to say no. To not even obsess, Today I can get right in the middle of it and not even want it. That's power for me, but from Him, so I can't say "I" have the power, never did.

After the Drink: I couldn't tell you what would happen. I can't even imagine it. Don't want to live in that false reality today. It would be either puke or drink into a blackout for days, week, months, years?.

Is my Life unmanageable?:

On my own: Yes

Using the steps in all my affairs: No, if I:
1. Admit I can't do it.
2. Believe He can help me.
3. Decide to let Him.
4. Check my motives.
5. Ask another alcoholic.
6. Remain willing to drop it..
.
.
12. Is this all about me or will it helps other also?

etc..That kind of deal.

Good questions. I need to check the back of the book more. I know the book never says "Recovering", it says "Recovered" and talks about new found freedom, and that we will be given power. We can go to the most sordid places on earth, etc. I do know for me the bottle was but a symptom, and all my fear driven self seeking character defects and short comings got me in a world of hurt. So I have to watch for selfishness more than anything.

One thing I know is that if we just kinda keep doing what the book suggests we don't have to try to figure anything out or worry about anything. Still practicing that part!!

Clutch B

The Big Book says: "We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition."

When I neglect my spiritual condition, my life (or certain parts of it) becomes unmanageable again.

(Quote from Big Book 1st Edition)

keithj

If I want to split hairs, neglecting my spiritual condition is synonomous with me managing my own life. I get selfish. I start thinking about me, and I start acting to get what I think I want or need. That gets painful in a hurry.

Me managing my own life makes my life unmanageable. Me acting along spiritual principles makes me peaceful and serene.