Just wondering
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Long Branch, NJ
Posts: 253
Just wondering
I know this is not the "correct" thing to say, but I am just wondering if anyone else has difficulty accepting the "alcoholism is a disease" schtick.
I know, I know, I've read it all, heard it all, and I've watched a couple of people go through withdrawal of alcohol and/or drugs and know that there is a very real physical addiction that develops.
But I still can't help feeling that some of it is choice. Choice to avoid responsiblity and accountablity by hiding behind the drink or drug. Choice to not stretch one's self to see the world from another's point of view. Choice to nurture the feeling that the world is against them and they are the victims when in fact they are the perpetuators. Although I know many, many people have stopped drinking through AA, in some ways I also see that AA perpetuates these behaviors, as well. For example, has anyone ever experienced an alcoholic "making amends" and you can tell they are going through the motions but don't really have a clue as to what it is they've done to the person to whom they are making the amends?
Again, I know the argument that promote the concept of alcoholism as a disease. There is just something about this that doesn't ring true for me, and I wondered if anyone else who has loved or lived with a drunk feels the same way.
I know, I know, I've read it all, heard it all, and I've watched a couple of people go through withdrawal of alcohol and/or drugs and know that there is a very real physical addiction that develops.
But I still can't help feeling that some of it is choice. Choice to avoid responsiblity and accountablity by hiding behind the drink or drug. Choice to not stretch one's self to see the world from another's point of view. Choice to nurture the feeling that the world is against them and they are the victims when in fact they are the perpetuators. Although I know many, many people have stopped drinking through AA, in some ways I also see that AA perpetuates these behaviors, as well. For example, has anyone ever experienced an alcoholic "making amends" and you can tell they are going through the motions but don't really have a clue as to what it is they've done to the person to whom they are making the amends?
Again, I know the argument that promote the concept of alcoholism as a disease. There is just something about this that doesn't ring true for me, and I wondered if anyone else who has loved or lived with a drunk feels the same way.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK and Australia
Posts: 447
I used to I guess.....before I got myself well and truly educated on this dreadful disease. Keep reading.......keep learning and then read some more and you may well find in time you too understand the concept! It is tricky and full of twists and turns. Thank God for SR it keeps me sane. Take care Phiz
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
It's a personality long before it's a substance.
if you don't believe me,
go watch children play.
You can see who's goin gto go to college
and who's going to go to rehab.
I think it's a personality disorder
and it is progressive
deadly
and completely treatable.
That means to me it *is* a disease.
And if I don't stop treating it ... I will die.
And just like a 'disease' your life becomes centered around it.
If you don't completely innundate yourself
with making your life - living WITH the disorder
you're not going to make it.
In the first seven months I got sober -
seven people I knew - and kenw pretty dang well ... died.
It was driven into me with a cosmic hammer
that this is a fatal disorder.
I make my jokes
I gripe about traits
and I kvetch with the best of them...
but *I* know at the same time
and I know this intimately
none of us are getting out of here alive.
I can't choose not to 'go'
but I can choose how I make my exit.
To me, there's no way it's anything BUT a 'dis' 'ease'.
if you don't believe me,
go watch children play.
You can see who's goin gto go to college
and who's going to go to rehab.
I think it's a personality disorder
and it is progressive
deadly
and completely treatable.
That means to me it *is* a disease.
And if I don't stop treating it ... I will die.
And just like a 'disease' your life becomes centered around it.
If you don't completely innundate yourself
with making your life - living WITH the disorder
you're not going to make it.
In the first seven months I got sober -
seven people I knew - and kenw pretty dang well ... died.
It was driven into me with a cosmic hammer
that this is a fatal disorder.
I make my jokes
I gripe about traits
and I kvetch with the best of them...
but *I* know at the same time
and I know this intimately
none of us are getting out of here alive.
I can't choose not to 'go'
but I can choose how I make my exit.
To me, there's no way it's anything BUT a 'dis' 'ease'.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
I agree-- we all have choices - as we grow - how we choose to handle pain and emotional distress, shyness, fear, trauma etc. But just as a person who keeps eating too much sugar can and will develop type II diabetes, a person who chooses to continue abusing alcohol ends up with a pretty nasty disease.
And mental issues are still not completely understood- why does one person choose to use a numbing substance and another does not? I don't know and scientist's don't know yet either. I mean addiction cuts across all dividers - men, women, rich, poor, those who were sexually abused and those who had great childhoods, successful people and perpetual losers...
I acccept it as a disease. A curable one. It is a brain disease - it is a mental illness, and so it is poorly understood, but there is more and more amazing brain research every year. I mean they can map addiction in the brain now - they can show how the neurons are changed, how the brain no longer functions properly without the alcohol.
I do know it is curable because I have a few recovered alcoholics in my life and my A father was recovered for the last 20 years of his life. The disease model also helps me respect the enormous foe that addiction is for the addict to battle. Perhaps I selfishly believe it because it allows me a measure of detachment to remind myself that my bros are in the grips of a disease, that they are behaving the same way all the people who have this disease behave and I don't take it personally.
I've met people all my life who apologize and don't mean it, so I don't think that is unique to AAers. My father and a dear friend who recovered through AA both made amends to me and it brings tears to my eyes to think of it because in both their cases it was so heartfelt and sincere and lasting. My dad's gone, but my recovered friend is in his 12th year of sobriety/recovery.
It's a fascinating subject though - disease or not, addiction is a powerful equal opportunity destroyer like no other!
peace-
b
And mental issues are still not completely understood- why does one person choose to use a numbing substance and another does not? I don't know and scientist's don't know yet either. I mean addiction cuts across all dividers - men, women, rich, poor, those who were sexually abused and those who had great childhoods, successful people and perpetual losers...
I acccept it as a disease. A curable one. It is a brain disease - it is a mental illness, and so it is poorly understood, but there is more and more amazing brain research every year. I mean they can map addiction in the brain now - they can show how the neurons are changed, how the brain no longer functions properly without the alcohol.
I do know it is curable because I have a few recovered alcoholics in my life and my A father was recovered for the last 20 years of his life. The disease model also helps me respect the enormous foe that addiction is for the addict to battle. Perhaps I selfishly believe it because it allows me a measure of detachment to remind myself that my bros are in the grips of a disease, that they are behaving the same way all the people who have this disease behave and I don't take it personally.
I've met people all my life who apologize and don't mean it, so I don't think that is unique to AAers. My father and a dear friend who recovered through AA both made amends to me and it brings tears to my eyes to think of it because in both their cases it was so heartfelt and sincere and lasting. My dad's gone, but my recovered friend is in his 12th year of sobriety/recovery.
It's a fascinating subject though - disease or not, addiction is a powerful equal opportunity destroyer like no other!
peace-
b
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
I didn't have much trouble with it until it hit home. I think I realized that like any illness, people always have a choice to seek help for their illness or not. But think about it as a chronic or terminal disease - where there is tx but the outcome is not always known. A lot of people are diagnosed with heart disease or diabetes or asthma/bronchitis etc and don't do what is needed at first or later. It is hard to live with a chronic illness. The part I think we struggle with is the active part of the illness. And remember it takes time to learn how to live with a chronic illness especially when the illness destroys your health and healty mind, and gives you a host of poor experiences. Hope that helps your understanding.
If not, it is ok. Keep reading and posting and learning. The most important part I learned is that whatever the illness, the caregiver has to take care of themselves first - so do better at that part if needed.
If not, it is ok. Keep reading and posting and learning. The most important part I learned is that whatever the illness, the caregiver has to take care of themselves first - so do better at that part if needed.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
There are many arguments on this topic - is it or isn't it? My answer ultimately was that it didn't matter for me. I knew what I was willing and able to accept in my one-and-only life here, and regardless of the cause, when my boundaries were crossed I had to take steps to protect myself.
I don't happen to agree with the line of thinking that says "it's a disease, like cancer." I prefer to think of it as a disorder, like schizophrenia. That's a genetic card we're dealt. There are steps that a schizophrenic (like my brother) must take in order to continue living a normal life that does not cause injury to himself or to others. If he chooses not to take his medication, then the results are terrible, but it is not something I can control, and it isn't any reason for me to pity him. My boundaries stay in place regardless.
Alcoholics have the choice to seek help & support to deal with the genes they've been dealt. There are hundreds of people on this board in various stages of recovery (of whom we're extremely proud) because they made that choice and continue to do the hard work of staying sober every day.
I don't happen to agree with the line of thinking that says "it's a disease, like cancer." I prefer to think of it as a disorder, like schizophrenia. That's a genetic card we're dealt. There are steps that a schizophrenic (like my brother) must take in order to continue living a normal life that does not cause injury to himself or to others. If he chooses not to take his medication, then the results are terrible, but it is not something I can control, and it isn't any reason for me to pity him. My boundaries stay in place regardless.
Alcoholics have the choice to seek help & support to deal with the genes they've been dealt. There are hundreds of people on this board in various stages of recovery (of whom we're extremely proud) because they made that choice and continue to do the hard work of staying sober every day.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Long Branch, NJ
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by GiveLove 
There are many arguments on this topic - is it or isn't it? My answer ultimately was that it didn't matter for me. I knew what I was willing and able to accept in my one-and-only life here, and regardless of the cause, when my boundaries were crossed I had to take steps to protect myself.
I don't happen to agree with the line of thinking that says "it's a disease, like cancer." I prefer to think of it as a disorder, like schizophrenia. That's a genetic card we're dealt. There are steps that a schizophrenic (like my brother) must take in order to continue living a normal life that does not cause injury to himself or to others. If he chooses not to take his medication, then the results are terrible, but it is not something I can control, and it isn't any reason for me to pity him. My boundaries stay in place regardless.
Alcoholics have the choice to seek help & support to deal with the genes they've been dealt. There are hundreds of people on this board in various stages of recovery (of whom we're extremely proud) because they made that choice and continue to do the hard work of staying sober every day.
I don't happen to agree with the line of thinking that says "it's a disease, like cancer." I prefer to think of it as a disorder, like schizophrenia. That's a genetic card we're dealt. There are steps that a schizophrenic (like my brother) must take in order to continue living a normal life that does not cause injury to himself or to others. If he chooses not to take his medication, then the results are terrible, but it is not something I can control, and it isn't any reason for me to pity him. My boundaries stay in place regardless.
Alcoholics have the choice to seek help & support to deal with the genes they've been dealt. There are hundreds of people on this board in various stages of recovery (of whom we're extremely proud) because they made that choice and continue to do the hard work of staying sober every day.
Just had a flashback of being in my former therapist's office. He was primarily a drug and alcohol counselor before he took up private therapy. He asked me if I knew the Serenity Prayer, and I said, "Of course", and he asked me to recite it. I dutifully began, "Help me to change the things I cannot accept..." I don't know if it's appropriate for a therapist to roll his eyes at his patient, but we both had a good laugh over what came out of me.
As my OP stated, I wondered if anyone else felt the same way. The answer is, apparently, "no". But then again, maybe it just doesn't matter.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
A disease is _not_ an excuse.
The official source for labeling alcoholism a disease is here
Welcome to NIAAA
I happen to have a heart condition. That's a disease. As long as I take my meds, do physical therapy, not get on roller coaster, follow docs orders, I'm fine. But if I don't my blood pressure goes all over the place, I'll have a stroke or heart attack, and die.
All the will power in the world will not control my blood pressure. Like tossing a match on a puddle of gasoline. Will power will _not_ stop an explosion. It's just chemistry. My heart condition is just chemistry.
Likewise, when an alcoholic takes just _one_ drink, it's a match on gasoline. All the willpower in the world means _nothing_. The alcohlic will _not_ stop at just one. It's just chemistry. They'll have another one, maybe not today, but soon. And another, and another.
Because of my heart condition I am not allowed to fly an airplane. Ever. But suppose I decided one day to stop taking my meds, ignore the docs, got in a plane and took off. My blood pressure goes all over and I crash land the plane killing some people on the ground.
You can feel sorry for me cuz I have a heart condition. But does that mean you let me get in a plane again? No way. And if I continue to get into planes and fly them around you throw me in jail for the safety of other people. But you can still feel sorry for my heart condition.
A disease is a _responsibility_. To the people I love, to strangers on the street, and to myself. A disease is a command from my HP to keep the match away from the gasoline.
A disease is _not_ an excuse.
Mike
The official source for labeling alcoholism a disease is here
Welcome to NIAAA
I happen to have a heart condition. That's a disease. As long as I take my meds, do physical therapy, not get on roller coaster, follow docs orders, I'm fine. But if I don't my blood pressure goes all over the place, I'll have a stroke or heart attack, and die.
All the will power in the world will not control my blood pressure. Like tossing a match on a puddle of gasoline. Will power will _not_ stop an explosion. It's just chemistry. My heart condition is just chemistry.
Likewise, when an alcoholic takes just _one_ drink, it's a match on gasoline. All the willpower in the world means _nothing_. The alcohlic will _not_ stop at just one. It's just chemistry. They'll have another one, maybe not today, but soon. And another, and another.
Because of my heart condition I am not allowed to fly an airplane. Ever. But suppose I decided one day to stop taking my meds, ignore the docs, got in a plane and took off. My blood pressure goes all over and I crash land the plane killing some people on the ground.
You can feel sorry for me cuz I have a heart condition. But does that mean you let me get in a plane again? No way. And if I continue to get into planes and fly them around you throw me in jail for the safety of other people. But you can still feel sorry for my heart condition.
A disease is a _responsibility_. To the people I love, to strangers on the street, and to myself. A disease is a command from my HP to keep the match away from the gasoline.
A disease is _not_ an excuse.
Mike
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