cloud8

If it is clear to you now, both buy your thoghts and feelings, that you cannot stop drinking or using by willpower alone- and you have tried everything in your power to change your life. but it is still out of control, then you have taken the first step.

This is a statement made buy the hazelden step book Im just curious,

What is will power alone mean.. My understanding is that i couldent stop drinking or stop the thoght of drinking before i started even thogh i knew it would turn out bad,,i had no control over the alcohol both in the physical form, and in the mental form, along with my feelings towards it,,in that i was powerless, and life had become unmanageble..this is and was my beleife when i first worked the 1st step..and of course that ment when i started drinking i couldent stop true story,,my excuse of course was that i didnt want to stop,,but the was a form of my deniel..

but here is my question,, when i saw that i couldent stop and life was a mess ect,,I then decided to ask for help and turn myself into treatment,,I reached out and saw inorder for me to stay sober i would have to be part of a program and do things to maintain my sobriety,,the steps, mettings, helping others, taking direction,and so on,,is this not a form of will power,,or am i misunderstanding what will is,,it was my will that decided to ask for help and allow it to accure,,it sounds selfish i know but im just asking,,i also relize it was gods will that got me to the people placses and things in order for me to get the help needed,,yet wasent it I who did the footwork, and asked for the help, I who prayed and made the choices,,

it seems to me i have alot of i in this but althogh i relize god and others had everything to do with this,,wasent it my will that made the choces to ask, do, and particapate..

just curious..thanks ps I I I I I ..lol gods in charge,,but he did give us tools to use,, footwork is a nessary part of recovery,,

jimhere

So tell me, if you would.

How do you "work" the First Step?

endzoner

Cloud my pal .. your brains running around that lil wheel trying to diesect whats been working for you , Do you really need to know why ?
All that really matters is its workin for you ..
Its liek the argument of if its a discese, or not .. Its nots not important. We discussed this last nite hun . Just let the other person figure out there ideas of what it is , I know your questioning all youve done . Its you desire to work the program . someone was there holding your hand as you walked the path and helped you when you needed it
kinda like a lil baby learning to walk , they do it them selfs but your there to help then and catch them if they fall . just my crazy ways of understanding things , not sure if it helps .. luvies yah ~ endzy ~

Iron

Willpower alone is living life without any type of program / recovery and not drinking. Truthfully, it's easy when things are good, but when life becomes difficult, my willpower is not enough. I don't know when life will go bad and I can't risk not having the program in my life when it happens. I'll end up drunk. And then...

Ananda

somewhere in the literature it talks about aligning our will with gods will....

we have will...we don't have power....

just random thoughts about it.

Charmie

God gave us all free will.it is what we do with it that counts.in all alcoholics lives you will see when you get further on in the programme how an alcoholics life is "self will run riot".
we all have God given instincts and we need these to survive.
but again in the life of an alcoholic or indeed any spiritually sick person the instincts have been mis-used.
so yes,you will be excerting a little of your will to get well,but under Gods direction if you let Him.
i found the steps to be a process and of course they are all in order for a reason.
the first step dosnt say "and" our lives became unmanagable,it just says our lives were unmanagable.
this means to me my life is unmanagable period without this power in my life.i am going to drink anyways wether i want to or not.that is why my life is unmanagable,not because of the debts etc i have caused because of my drinking.my life is unmanagable because of the type of person i am i will be a classic case of "self will run riot".
hope this hasnt been too confusing,as i said you will learn about this later.

Spawn

I'm thinking of a slogan "keep it simple"
it sounds like your trying to understand too much at once.

The slogans helped me a great deal at first.

Keep it simple.

Keep coming back.

And keep an open mind,..........these 3 helped me until the fog lifted a little more.

Ananda

mmm...well...

I excersise what will power i have to work the program.

and I think i'm leaving the staying sober itself part to an HP????

the steps don't seem to tell me to fight against the obsession or avoid certain things, or excersise my will on fighting the bottle...they tell me to clear the wreakage of my past, leave my alchohol problem with an HP and help others in and out of the program.

just my thoughts at this early stage.

NotASaint

I totally understand where your coming from!!! i mean the fact that you understand that it was god's will that got you to where ever you are is awesome. The way i thought about it was that the my will to be WILLing and then being willing takin' some action on some suggestions givin to me by some people with some solid AA. through this i could try to align my will with god's will which is the point of the steps as i understand them.

Alike

Could8, Question was- "i would have to be part of a program and do things to maintain my sobriety,,the steps, mettings, helping others, taking direction,and so on,,is this not a form of will power,,or am i misunderstanding what will is"

Honest questions should seek honest simple logical answers.

1. Your will has the power to do something or not (The word "something" can be substituted for anything which can succeed or fail both are powers.

"Peoples" views not A.A.'s think will power is a bad or wrong thing the illusion or delusion just depends how deep one falls for it ends up making no sense at all confused in which "your senses" (will) is ting to sort it out.

- The best people can do when you ask questions they do not understand themselves is to tell you sit down shut up and listen to them.lol wish that was not true.
The delusions in this area are astonishing some even think that A.A. has to be administered by another. Don't laugh most practice these institutional ways sober not understanding it's a "free" gift from God.

A.A.'s spiritual program makes it clear that God gave us brains to use and it takes ones will to uses them or not.

A.A.'s spiritual program makes it clear that when the will is aligned or combined or conscious with God's will or if your will wishes H.P exert all the will you have.

A.A.'s spiritual program make it clear that no human power can relive us. You agree with the program?
Sit around and watch the circus you won't believe how many try to will out the spirit and cling to people anything physical to feel good to a point where some even have to start putting down others to feel good-
Good question never sit down and shut up speak out we have nothing to be afraid of anymore there is something spiritual about letting go and letting God - there is something physical about turning to and doing what other people want you to do rather than using the will within ones innermost self.

Think about this. Communism may take all the will you have unless you like it.

Great question - Wish more would question and listen to the heart rather than follow.
People "will" tell you "DON'T Do It ALONE" people are physical -the second step is spiritual and when taken you will never be alone again
A.A. is talking spiritual sit around and see the many alone in the crowd scared to question.
"THE A.A. PROGRAM BEGS US" to be fearless from the very start it only takes personal willingness to do that he is everything or nothing and that depends on ones own free will spiritual or physical.

Love all the people in A.A. good examples or no so good.

Alike

Following ones own heart may take all the willingness there is and then some if one cannot utilize their greatest asset - their own past

timbo555

"Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will".

I get thriough the door, tired and beat, and I admit I have no power. My so-called willpower as regards alcohol is practically non existant. So I need to find a power greater than myself. God povides that power. Actually, He already has, and continues to do so, or else I would cease to exist.

What I turn over to God is that part of my thinking and behavior (my will) that prevents me from having a relationship with him. (Character defects, those tools I used to get through life). For instance: dishonesty, impatience, intolerance, lust, resentment etc...

What I keep is that part of my thinking and behavior (my will) that nurtures my relationship with him (character qualities, the new tools I use to get through life. I use these tools conform to God's will. Or rather, these tools ARE God's will). For instance: Honesty, patience, tolerance forgiveness, concern for others etc...

cloud8

Thought and reflection along with writing and understanding is a form of work,,After witch i live the steps, incorporate them into my daily life,,

hope that helps,,

cloud8

Keep it simple is a wounderful line,,i use it alot,,yet it is also used to much buy some to avoid trying to answer questions they dont understand. dont you think??

Alike

Cloud8
Thanks for BEING here
Great question if I understand you right you think your thinking got you to where you are? Right? if SO - stop don’t read or go any farther just take instructions from a outside sponsor. Hope you have a great life

If not SO take a closer look


It was not our thinking that got us here it was drinking that interfered with our thinking as we could not stop it went “AGAINST OUR WILL” and could not take it anymore as some to A.A. others go to church others else where.

The Big book does not say it was our will that got us here if that was the case everything we do is blamed on alcoholism there would be nothing we can do about it. The Big Books message is once the WILL is in lined with God use all of it you got. It was the misuse of it that harmed us not the will.

People like to tell others it’s their “will” it makes no sense if your personally willing to think about it – Let’s say you’re not – now this same subject can be used as a control issue that imposes the will from another on another to get them to do what someone else wills them to do instead of in line with a power that can intuitively handle situations that use to baffle them some call it the outside sponsorship system in A.A. Bill W calls it the medaling force and wrote the Traditions of A.A. to slow it up.

The difference between Willingness and personal WILLingness is night and day
It would take me a lot of willingness to have to be told what I had to do - some may call it communism or socialism and what both these willingness’s lack ? Surly not people prying into other peoples life’s
But the PERSONAL willingness that only comes from one’s own will and with the "HELP" of Gods grace - not you or I or you and your ? The Big Book ask us to abandon yourself to ? only then the promise that some of us will intuitively be able to handle situations that use to baffle us - never "BEING" alone again even in the middle of an A.A crowd.

Great topic hope there are many more like it

myselfsober

Its interesting that the Hazelton method wasnt used in the treatment centre that I was at and yet still that message was still used to illustrate the fact none of us could have got sober on our own.

I took my first Step the night I called the treatment centre and booked myself a bed for a 3 month stay. I realised that my life for the past 10 years had become a series of lies,manipulation,betrayal and regret and if I was to continue to drink it meant that this would only continue.

For me I know that my will power didnt bring me to sobriety ( because lets be honest if i could do the 'right about face thing' and go back to 'normal' drinking I would ) I know that it took something much greater than myself to make me see that the life I was living was on a course for disaster such was the intensity of my denial, I would never have seen this myself.

I still have to complete my Step one often as I very quickly forget how unmanagable my life can become with or without alcohol and when I think that I can do this alone I know im goosed