Annata (Non-self)
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Annata (Non-self)
Not outside looking in, not objective viewpoint. Non-self. Not you. Not him, nor her, nor them. Nothing. Not. Your problems are not important, then again they are the most important thing in the world but are also neither and both. Void, empty, present, aware, ready to embrace death with loving arms; so obscenely powerful that it should be made illegal.
If you are someone who has failed to grasp my ponderous intellect or have previously dismissed me for the arrogant babbling douche that I very well may be, you should probably go check out another thread now; but I'd like you to give it another shot, especially if you're someone who is still struggling. Remember that you are reading the words of someone who has triumphed, or "been there and done that", as the saying goes; through the world's most unconventional, revolutionary and radical means, the Dharma.
I have only been a student of the Dharma for approximately a year and change but in that time I feel as though I have learned so much about the correct understanding of reality and about myself that even my massive head can barely contain all of the information.
What I'd like to do, as it pertains to the philosophy of Annata, is to put you in the shoes of someone else, through the vehicle of your own imagination.
Think of your home. Think of your car. Think of your mortgage, your family, your job, your clothes, your food, your water. Think of your past-times, hobbies and favourite song. Now think of your drug problem. Ponder all of this information for a moment and see: is this you? Look and see: is this what others view as "you"?
Now think of a nameless boy in a nameless world. He can't participate in this mental exercise. He cant think of his home, because he doesn't have one and never has. He can't think of a car because the only time he's ever seen one is when soldiers used it to run down and kill his mother and is deathly afraid of them. He can't think of a mortgage because the very concept has no meaning to him. He can't think of his family because they're all dead and the memory is too painful. He can't think of a job because even if he had the time to do one, there are none and he probably would be beaten and thrown out without a wage at the end of the day. The concept of clothing, as we view it, with a word - as intellectually enraging as it is in this context - fashion, again, has utterly no meaning to him and is an item of pure use-value.
Food. Water. These are his hobbies, past-times and favourite song. His hobby is digging through a garbage dump, scrounging for the scraps of refuse deemed unwanted from a bourgeoisie table. His favourite song was the sound of a running brook of fresh water before Chinamerican progress turned it dry.
He doesn't have a drug problem. As a matter of fact, if he could enjoy the comfort of North America in his nameless world at the cost of a drug problem, he would welcome it. Despite all of this, as he carries a nameless receptacle of water back from a nameless place to share with nameless friends, he has a smile on his face and happy thoughts in his mind. This nameless boy probably isn't older than ten, yet is more mature and more aware and closer to personal liberation than most of us will ever be or could even conceive of.
Knowing this person exists - there you sit. Enamoured in your nameless self.
This has been your Saturday Morning Perspective. All hail the enlightened one.
If you are someone who has failed to grasp my ponderous intellect or have previously dismissed me for the arrogant babbling douche that I very well may be, you should probably go check out another thread now; but I'd like you to give it another shot, especially if you're someone who is still struggling. Remember that you are reading the words of someone who has triumphed, or "been there and done that", as the saying goes; through the world's most unconventional, revolutionary and radical means, the Dharma.
I have only been a student of the Dharma for approximately a year and change but in that time I feel as though I have learned so much about the correct understanding of reality and about myself that even my massive head can barely contain all of the information.
What I'd like to do, as it pertains to the philosophy of Annata, is to put you in the shoes of someone else, through the vehicle of your own imagination.
Think of your home. Think of your car. Think of your mortgage, your family, your job, your clothes, your food, your water. Think of your past-times, hobbies and favourite song. Now think of your drug problem. Ponder all of this information for a moment and see: is this you? Look and see: is this what others view as "you"?
Now think of a nameless boy in a nameless world. He can't participate in this mental exercise. He cant think of his home, because he doesn't have one and never has. He can't think of a car because the only time he's ever seen one is when soldiers used it to run down and kill his mother and is deathly afraid of them. He can't think of a mortgage because the very concept has no meaning to him. He can't think of his family because they're all dead and the memory is too painful. He can't think of a job because even if he had the time to do one, there are none and he probably would be beaten and thrown out without a wage at the end of the day. The concept of clothing, as we view it, with a word - as intellectually enraging as it is in this context - fashion, again, has utterly no meaning to him and is an item of pure use-value.
Food. Water. These are his hobbies, past-times and favourite song. His hobby is digging through a garbage dump, scrounging for the scraps of refuse deemed unwanted from a bourgeoisie table. His favourite song was the sound of a running brook of fresh water before Chinamerican progress turned it dry.
He doesn't have a drug problem. As a matter of fact, if he could enjoy the comfort of North America in his nameless world at the cost of a drug problem, he would welcome it. Despite all of this, as he carries a nameless receptacle of water back from a nameless place to share with nameless friends, he has a smile on his face and happy thoughts in his mind. This nameless boy probably isn't older than ten, yet is more mature and more aware and closer to personal liberation than most of us will ever be or could even conceive of.
Knowing this person exists - there you sit. Enamoured in your nameless self.
This has been your Saturday Morning Perspective. All hail the enlightened one.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
To early to think, isn’t it 
I am left with do most have the capacity to fully see … do some even want to which has nothing to do with being caring, empathetic, compassionate...
Some ponderings back looking at what you wrote, and the capacity to see more then just who we are and how we are viewed by others.
I do find extremely important for people to find their own sense of self and stop looking at how everyone around views them as I am not sure one can branch out into a bigger picture, into a wonderful life without being comfortable with who they are at the core…
Maybe now the question could shift to are you comfortable within you and what has that given you as you look around and see there is so much more.
And from a bit of a cynical side…
At times I see nothing more then the cage one becomes locked in as they scream to be let out and wonder why no one will remove the bars.….and as the screaming escalates, and the blame becomes second nature and other perceptions become too easily the justification to self destruct further….
One had the damn key all along
And here they and only they themselves were who slammed that door right in their own face to begin with…
As an afterthought…
Annata, means non self, and while I am fascinated with all the concepts of Buddism, I haven’t studied much but to me…. in the end I translate annata in my head to more of a growing, learning, enlightening, connected, yet with acceptance of ones whole self…and I do tend to see the thinking process of thoughts arise and then perish….that makes sense because if we are ever changing, ever growing then our thinking would be in a constant state of change. Having worked real hard on me it was a constant change in thinking and in viewing the world around…not always in the best light of my own self but enlightening which brings me hope…
Make sense don’t know but it work’s in my head…
I am left with do most have the capacity to fully see … do some even want to which has nothing to do with being caring, empathetic, compassionate...
Some ponderings back looking at what you wrote, and the capacity to see more then just who we are and how we are viewed by others.
I do find extremely important for people to find their own sense of self and stop looking at how everyone around views them as I am not sure one can branch out into a bigger picture, into a wonderful life without being comfortable with who they are at the core…
Maybe now the question could shift to are you comfortable within you and what has that given you as you look around and see there is so much more.
And from a bit of a cynical side…
At times I see nothing more then the cage one becomes locked in as they scream to be let out and wonder why no one will remove the bars.….and as the screaming escalates, and the blame becomes second nature and other perceptions become too easily the justification to self destruct further….
One had the damn key all along
And here they and only they themselves were who slammed that door right in their own face to begin with…
As an afterthought…
Annata, means non self, and while I am fascinated with all the concepts of Buddism, I haven’t studied much but to me…. in the end I translate annata in my head to more of a growing, learning, enlightening, connected, yet with acceptance of ones whole self…and I do tend to see the thinking process of thoughts arise and then perish….that makes sense because if we are ever changing, ever growing then our thinking would be in a constant state of change. Having worked real hard on me it was a constant change in thinking and in viewing the world around…not always in the best light of my own self but enlightening which brings me hope…
Make sense don’t know but it work’s in my head…
crazy vampire addict
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: just north of hell.
Posts: 429
The man with no shoes thinks he has a problem...until he meets a man with no feet.
If we compare ourselves to others, we may come to see that our problems are smaller. Yet, if we were to do that, we wouldn't be able to heal. Addiction, and more specifically, recovery, is a selfish process. It has to be. We need to be focused on ourselves in order for the healing process to commence.
If you were to look at me without knowing my addiction, you would see a very fortunate woman. I have a beautiful home. My husband makes a wonderful living which affords me the ability to stay home while I recover from my illness. My children are healthy, happy and well provided for. I have a grandchild who I am blessed with and another on the way. I have a career as a nurse which brings me a lot of gratification. We go out for dinners, to the movies and enjoy a lot of the luxuries that others can't obtain right now. I am involved with several charity organizations that not only allow me to give back to others, but give me a feeling of self-worth by knowing i am helping others.
Life, by all measure and appearance, looks bright. I have a life that many would envy...on the surface.
However, I am sick. I need to focus on myself during this time because if I don't, I would succumb quite easily to the throes of my addiction. Relapse is only one pill away for me. Every day is a struggle this early in my recovery. Upon waking, it is one of the first things I think of...how will I get through this day without using. I do make it a part of my recovery to do selfless deeds, to give back. I have connected with people who are recovering. I give them rides to our counseling sessions. I have watched their children for them while they have gone to AA or NA meetings. I do what I can, whenever I can.
However, I can't overtax myself or burden myself too much. Stress triggers me a great deal, so I have to do what I can to take care of myself. Sometimes, that means staying away from others who are still actively using or in crisis situations.
I know it is selfish to some degree. But for now, it has to be this way. I am not yet strong enough to bear the burdens of others. That strength grows and increases a little every day...but I cannot help but "baby" myself to a certain degree. I am useless, powerless over the lives of others if I do not take care of my own first and foremost. I cannot belittle my addiction by understanding that there are others around me whose problems are greater by comparison.
In essence, I am fighting for my life. That is an extremely selfish process...but a cross I am willing to bear in order to get my life back on track enough that I can continue to be of service to others.
I do understand the deeper meaning of your original post, Vin. I take it to heart. I know that there are some who are groveling in the street for their next meal. Sometimes I feel poorly that all I can do is throw some money in the direction of their issue in hopes of alleviating it. It's a temporary fix...a band aid on a bullet wound, if you will. But for now, it is all I can do until I have fought this beast just enough to strip it of its power.
I'm not there yet...but I will be. And when I am deeper into recovery and stronger, I will always make ammends for the times I could not be there for my fellow man.
If we compare ourselves to others, we may come to see that our problems are smaller. Yet, if we were to do that, we wouldn't be able to heal. Addiction, and more specifically, recovery, is a selfish process. It has to be. We need to be focused on ourselves in order for the healing process to commence.
If you were to look at me without knowing my addiction, you would see a very fortunate woman. I have a beautiful home. My husband makes a wonderful living which affords me the ability to stay home while I recover from my illness. My children are healthy, happy and well provided for. I have a grandchild who I am blessed with and another on the way. I have a career as a nurse which brings me a lot of gratification. We go out for dinners, to the movies and enjoy a lot of the luxuries that others can't obtain right now. I am involved with several charity organizations that not only allow me to give back to others, but give me a feeling of self-worth by knowing i am helping others.
Life, by all measure and appearance, looks bright. I have a life that many would envy...on the surface.
However, I am sick. I need to focus on myself during this time because if I don't, I would succumb quite easily to the throes of my addiction. Relapse is only one pill away for me. Every day is a struggle this early in my recovery. Upon waking, it is one of the first things I think of...how will I get through this day without using. I do make it a part of my recovery to do selfless deeds, to give back. I have connected with people who are recovering. I give them rides to our counseling sessions. I have watched their children for them while they have gone to AA or NA meetings. I do what I can, whenever I can.
However, I can't overtax myself or burden myself too much. Stress triggers me a great deal, so I have to do what I can to take care of myself. Sometimes, that means staying away from others who are still actively using or in crisis situations.
I know it is selfish to some degree. But for now, it has to be this way. I am not yet strong enough to bear the burdens of others. That strength grows and increases a little every day...but I cannot help but "baby" myself to a certain degree. I am useless, powerless over the lives of others if I do not take care of my own first and foremost. I cannot belittle my addiction by understanding that there are others around me whose problems are greater by comparison.
In essence, I am fighting for my life. That is an extremely selfish process...but a cross I am willing to bear in order to get my life back on track enough that I can continue to be of service to others.
I do understand the deeper meaning of your original post, Vin. I take it to heart. I know that there are some who are groveling in the street for their next meal. Sometimes I feel poorly that all I can do is throw some money in the direction of their issue in hopes of alleviating it. It's a temporary fix...a band aid on a bullet wound, if you will. But for now, it is all I can do until I have fought this beast just enough to strip it of its power.
I'm not there yet...but I will be. And when I am deeper into recovery and stronger, I will always make ammends for the times I could not be there for my fellow man.
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no offense Vinter but you sound like my baptist father. 
He was always quick to point out that others are suffering something I couldn't even imagine. He was true and you are too- to put things in perspective but I feel that I HAVE to work on ME before i can truly understand others. I believe when i do a little or a lot on myself I will be more open to empathy. But it's hard for me to love others when I hate myself, ya know?
He was always quick to point out that others are suffering something I couldn't even imagine. He was true and you are too- to put things in perspective but I feel that I HAVE to work on ME before i can truly understand others. I believe when i do a little or a lot on myself I will be more open to empathy. But it's hard for me to love others when I hate myself, ya know?
Enough is Enough!!!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 33
Hi V, Let me start by saying that you have a fantastic way with words and I find your posts very well constructed, thought prevoking and interesting.
There will always be someone else in a far worse situation than us and I have pondered similar cases many times. Right now, I am 16 days clean from my 8 year addiction, I have a real bad pain in my ankle, I have a debt of around $10,000 on my credit card, work 65 hours a week in 2 jobs that I hate to pay my mortgage and to 'keep up with the Jones''
I count myself very lucky to be in good health and to have what I have but I also feel trapped due to financial commitments. My office is 2 floors underground and I get no natural daylight which can get me down too.
Knowing that there is always someone worse off does not make me feel any better as you play the cards you are dealt and make the most of things, regardless of what they are. in a way, that little boy might have life easier than us, if he has love in his life from his family I would say that he has more than what I will ever have.
We live in a 'throw away', materialistic world where money rules everything we do. We spend money on creature comforts that we dont need that make us feel better for a split second and in no time the said comforts are out of date and we feel another need to replace them. This is a seemingly endless cycle whih will never change.
I know people that have nothing and lead far happier lives than me. These people earn less money than I do, dont drive a car or have as many creature comforts as I do and they rent small rooms in a tatty property. They are happier than me! How? Why? I dunno, but the are. I do know that they dont have a drug problem like I do, they haven't been disowned by their father like I have for not being good enough and they dont have the need to forever try and fill the huge hole deep inside themselves like I do.
I dont really know where I am going with this, or how to tidy it up. What I do know is that I have a problem and need to worry about me and only me for the time being or i'll be forever trapped within myself.
Just goes to show that no matter who you are or where you come from, life can suck.
CB
There will always be someone else in a far worse situation than us and I have pondered similar cases many times. Right now, I am 16 days clean from my 8 year addiction, I have a real bad pain in my ankle, I have a debt of around $10,000 on my credit card, work 65 hours a week in 2 jobs that I hate to pay my mortgage and to 'keep up with the Jones''
I count myself very lucky to be in good health and to have what I have but I also feel trapped due to financial commitments. My office is 2 floors underground and I get no natural daylight which can get me down too.
Knowing that there is always someone worse off does not make me feel any better as you play the cards you are dealt and make the most of things, regardless of what they are. in a way, that little boy might have life easier than us, if he has love in his life from his family I would say that he has more than what I will ever have.
We live in a 'throw away', materialistic world where money rules everything we do. We spend money on creature comforts that we dont need that make us feel better for a split second and in no time the said comforts are out of date and we feel another need to replace them. This is a seemingly endless cycle whih will never change.
I know people that have nothing and lead far happier lives than me. These people earn less money than I do, dont drive a car or have as many creature comforts as I do and they rent small rooms in a tatty property. They are happier than me! How? Why? I dunno, but the are. I do know that they dont have a drug problem like I do, they haven't been disowned by their father like I have for not being good enough and they dont have the need to forever try and fill the huge hole deep inside themselves like I do.
I dont really know where I am going with this, or how to tidy it up. What I do know is that I have a problem and need to worry about me and only me for the time being or i'll be forever trapped within myself.
Just goes to show that no matter who you are or where you come from, life can suck.
CB
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 862
I'm not trying to minimize anyone's situation. It's just perspective. Believe it or not some people never consider for one second that they are not the center of the Universe.
Incidentally, picturing a child desperate for water and food should not and is not intended to make anyone feel better in any way. What should make you feel better is the fact that he is not unhappy.
Incidentally, picturing a child desperate for water and food should not and is not intended to make anyone feel better in any way. What should make you feel better is the fact that he is not unhappy.
Last edited by Vintersemestre; 11-14-2009 at 04:25 PM.
crazy vampire addict
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: just north of hell.
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by Vintersemestre 
Incidentally, picturing a child desperate for water and food should not and is not intended to make anyone feel better in any way. What should make you feel better is the fact that he is not unhappy.
I love your posts, V. I don't always agree with them...but I always consider them in one way or another. They are always thought provoking.
Are you arrogant? Absolutely. It's endearing. But, you are not a "babbling douche" by any stretch...no matter how hard you try.
I got nothin'
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Posts: 4,890
Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
Incidentally, picturing a child desperate for water and food should not and is not intended to make anyone feel better in any way. What should make you feel better is the fact that he is not unhappy.
I've done these thought exercises before and they don't help me. Thinking about these things (not hypothetical individuals...but real entire groups of people) always prompted me to drink more. Reality, without considering my personal problems, is completely and utterly depressing.
I have one shot at life and I'm going to make it the best I can. Some say that's selfish...I say it's realistic. I think about others and all I want to do is help them and solve their problems...but I find it nearly impossible to fix my own. Not much keeps me going except my hope that I can get out of my personal hell.
Now with fewer opiates!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
Knowing this person exists - there you sit. Enamoured in your nameless self.
So let's say I research the issue and find an organization that does some good and "adopt" the hungry, thirsty yet happy kid. I literally give-up something so that he may have a tiny respite.
Have I been magnanimous, or have I simply attempted to assuage my own guilt and thereby reduced the gesture to something self-serving?
(Actually, I first heard the argument on "Friends" and not in philosophy class.)
Some of your writing is compelling. When you couch it in false claims of ponderous intellect and tag it with "all hail" it becomes reduced to little more than he who touts his Brobdingnagian endowment while the locker room evidence speaks to the contrary.
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Originally Posted by Stagebear
I hesitate to respond, presuming that there is nothing I can say that won't feed your existential engine.
So let's say I research the issue and find an organization that does some good and "adopt" the hungry, thirsty yet happy kid. I literally give-up something so that he may have a tiny respite.
Have I been magnanimous, or have I simply attempted to assuage my own guilt and thereby reduced the gesture to something self-serving?
(Actually, I first heard the argument on "Friends" and not in philosophy class.)
Some of your writing is compelling. When you couch it in false claims of ponderous intellect and tag it with "all hail" it becomes reduced to little more than he who touts his Brobdingnagian endowment while the locker room evidence speaks to the contrary.
So let's say I research the issue and find an organization that does some good and "adopt" the hungry, thirsty yet happy kid. I literally give-up something so that he may have a tiny respite.
Have I been magnanimous, or have I simply attempted to assuage my own guilt and thereby reduced the gesture to something self-serving?
(Actually, I first heard the argument on "Friends" and not in philosophy class.)
Some of your writing is compelling. When you couch it in false claims of ponderous intellect and tag it with "all hail" it becomes reduced to little more than he who touts his Brobdingnagian endowment while the locker room evidence speaks to the contrary.
Also why has it always got to be about penis with some people? You are cordially invited to a locker room of your choosing to inspect my paraphernalia and to draw any conclusions by it at any time you see fit
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I have to admit that I really never understand alot of your posts. Too many big words for this addict.
But I totally understand this one.
I relapsed yesterday and lost everything in a matter of hours AGAIN!
But as bad as I feel right now. I do have to remember that it could have been alot worse. And someone had said in my thread of admitting I screwed up, That death may be the best result if I continue to use. I may very well end up locked up for life or cripple myself or become a vegetable, forever living in a prison. I would beg for death if those alternatives were ever to happen.
So yes, I get it. I even said that there are alot of poeple who have never even seena drug that have it way worse than I do.
It makes me ashamed. But grateful at the same time.
Thx V. Thx for reminding me that my life isnt bad and is fixable.
And I better start valuing it before I really do have more serious consequences to my using.
i know that may be a little off base from what you meant. But thats what I got out of it.
But I totally understand this one.
I relapsed yesterday and lost everything in a matter of hours AGAIN!
But as bad as I feel right now. I do have to remember that it could have been alot worse. And someone had said in my thread of admitting I screwed up, That death may be the best result if I continue to use. I may very well end up locked up for life or cripple myself or become a vegetable, forever living in a prison. I would beg for death if those alternatives were ever to happen.
So yes, I get it. I even said that there are alot of poeple who have never even seena drug that have it way worse than I do.
It makes me ashamed. But grateful at the same time.
Thx V. Thx for reminding me that my life isnt bad and is fixable.
And I better start valuing it before I really do have more serious consequences to my using.
i know that may be a little off base from what you meant. But thats what I got out of it.
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Originally Posted by windysan
I try not to think too hard. Gives me headaches.
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Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
You think about how much the federal government blows though right? Come on, I know you do. No one is as naturally aloof as you without shoving down dormant and directionless rage, I do it constantly, lol.
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