Slowly but surely relapsing
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 22
Slowly but surely relapsing
Hi All,
After more than six months sober, my husband is slowly but most certainly heading into a relapse. He's been dropping not-so-subtle hints that he thinks he's "cured" and there are other ways than AA. But the heart of the matter is he just wants a program that tells him he's not sick and he can drink. I was out-of-town on business this week and he bought a beer. Left it unopened in the fridge with a long note explaining why he bought it, why he didn't drink it and why he think he can do this great "experiment."
I'm tired of arguing. He's not told his sponsor about any of this. Last night, I told him if he starts drinking again, I will have to leave him. He claims I keep "raising the bar" on what I want from him. Anyone heard that before?
He just called from a cab, said he's running late and probably won't make it to his meeting tonight. So there he goes, slipping over the cliff.
I'm enraged and yet have some weird peace that I've finally made up my mind not to put up with it anymore if he can't commit to at least trying.
I guess I just need a little backup here and any words of encouragement to keep me from falling apart.
Thanks,
Kath
After more than six months sober, my husband is slowly but most certainly heading into a relapse. He's been dropping not-so-subtle hints that he thinks he's "cured" and there are other ways than AA. But the heart of the matter is he just wants a program that tells him he's not sick and he can drink. I was out-of-town on business this week and he bought a beer. Left it unopened in the fridge with a long note explaining why he bought it, why he didn't drink it and why he think he can do this great "experiment."
I'm tired of arguing. He's not told his sponsor about any of this. Last night, I told him if he starts drinking again, I will have to leave him. He claims I keep "raising the bar" on what I want from him. Anyone heard that before?
He just called from a cab, said he's running late and probably won't make it to his meeting tonight. So there he goes, slipping over the cliff.
I'm enraged and yet have some weird peace that I've finally made up my mind not to put up with it anymore if he can't commit to at least trying.
I guess I just need a little backup here and any words of encouragement to keep me from falling apart.
Thanks,
Kath
I used to work here ;)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: I live in Trevose, PA & collect Barbies :)
Posts: 2,024
Hi Kath
Well you know the saying - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it (not sure if that is the correct order
)
They are going to do what they are going to do no matter what we say or do. We can hope and pray that they won't. You need to do what is best for you, what makes you happy and at peace.
You have put up a boundary now by telling him that, just make sure you stick to it should it happen. I know I've given idle threats before and never stuck with them. Stick to your guns on this.
You will both be in my thoughts and prayers.
Many hugs,
Debbie
Well you know the saying - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it (not sure if that is the correct order
)They are going to do what they are going to do no matter what we say or do. We can hope and pray that they won't. You need to do what is best for you, what makes you happy and at peace.
You have put up a boundary now by telling him that, just make sure you stick to it should it happen. I know I've given idle threats before and never stuck with them. Stick to your guns on this.
You will both be in my thoughts and prayers.
Many hugs,
Debbie
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 22
Thanks Debbie,
I needed to hear that. I've made the idle threats before but I feel oddly calm this time. I feel like I can really do it if he doesn't start to treat me with the respect that I, and he, deserve.
He just came home, all pissed off, made some snide comments and said he was going to his meeting. Basically told me I was forcing him to go. Because when he called to say he was going to be late, I asked, "How are you going to stay sober if you don't go to your meeting?" I really wanted to know the answer. Did he have another plan. Anyway, I didn't react to his anger. Said goodbye and when back about my business. I feel really good and really bad, all at once.
Ugh
I needed to hear that. I've made the idle threats before but I feel oddly calm this time. I feel like I can really do it if he doesn't start to treat me with the respect that I, and he, deserve.
He just came home, all pissed off, made some snide comments and said he was going to his meeting. Basically told me I was forcing him to go. Because when he called to say he was going to be late, I asked, "How are you going to stay sober if you don't go to your meeting?" I really wanted to know the answer. Did he have another plan. Anyway, I didn't react to his anger. Said goodbye and when back about my business. I feel really good and really bad, all at once.
Ugh
I used to work here ;)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: I live in Trevose, PA & collect Barbies :)
Posts: 2,024
******{Kath}}}}}
Sometimes you just reach a point. I completely understand.
You feel really bad because of the outcome - it really isn't what you want to happen but you feel good because you might finally get that serenity you deserve in your life - the peace and calm is what we all so truly deserve.
One day at a time. Things will fall into place as they are meant to.
Take care.
Many hugs.
Debbie
Sometimes you just reach a point. I completely understand.
You feel really bad because of the outcome - it really isn't what you want to happen but you feel good because you might finally get that serenity you deserve in your life - the peace and calm is what we all so truly deserve.
One day at a time. Things will fall into place as they are meant to.
Take care.
Many hugs.
Debbie
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: madison, connecticut
Posts: 21
I completely understand where you are and what you are feeling. My husband quit for about a year. I had suspected that he was drinking again, but he always had an excuse..."thats not vodka you smell, I just ate an odd combination of stuff, thats what you smell". Stupid me bought for a while, but eventually it became very obvious. I threatened to leave him, even made an appointment with a lawyer, but my husband convinced me to cancel it. He promised to quit again. About four months later he had gotten to the point of getting stumbling drunk every day he didn't have to work. Again I told him I wasn't happy, and wanted out. Again he promised change. He was good for a while, but I wasn't exactly receptive to his efforts. I had a lot of reservations, and my biggest fear was that he would quit for another year, and I'd be back in the same place again. After a couple of months I found that he was sneaking alcohol again. My initial reaction was happiness. I was sad that he obviously couldn't quit, but at least I was going to know sooner than later. He moved out about 3 months ago. I told him that he needed to prove to me that he could do it on his own (for 6 months or more), then I'd take him back. A few weeks into this arrangement he took my 7 & 10 year old sons out to a restaurant/bar for 5 hours drove them home drunk & then left them home alone because he wanted to check up on me. My kids have never been left home alone before. He was only gone for 15-20 minutes, but that was long enough for them to go crying to the neighbors telling them that they are home alone & scared ( it was about 11pm ). The next day I filed for divorce. The single hardest thing I have ever done. I still doubt myself. I still wonder if the alcoholism is really there or is it in my head. But I've come to far to back down now. It's really hard, but you have to do whats right for you. Good luck.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
Hi Kath!
Yes, I have definitely heard the "raising the bar" statement - in fact many times. He keeps saying that I keep saying he's the one that has to change or I'm going to leave. I've tried to explain to him that it's both of us and that I am working on myself and he needs to work on himself if our marriage is going to last.
I don't blame you at all for telling him you are going to leave. My husband has been sober for only 4 days now and claims he's quitting this time. I've made up my mind to leave if he relapses again. I'm finding it's really hard to work on myself when I have to deal with him stumbling all the time. I know I shouldn't care, that I can't control that, but I also know that I really don't have to deal with it. Life would be so much more peaceful if I didn't have that in my life and I could really focus on me and my kids (thank goodness they aren't his).
Keep coming back and let us know how it is going. You have a lot of support here and people that care. Hang tough!!
Kitkat
Yes, I have definitely heard the "raising the bar" statement - in fact many times. He keeps saying that I keep saying he's the one that has to change or I'm going to leave. I've tried to explain to him that it's both of us and that I am working on myself and he needs to work on himself if our marriage is going to last.
I don't blame you at all for telling him you are going to leave. My husband has been sober for only 4 days now and claims he's quitting this time. I've made up my mind to leave if he relapses again. I'm finding it's really hard to work on myself when I have to deal with him stumbling all the time. I know I shouldn't care, that I can't control that, but I also know that I really don't have to deal with it. Life would be so much more peaceful if I didn't have that in my life and I could really focus on me and my kids (thank goodness they aren't his).
Keep coming back and let us know how it is going. You have a lot of support here and people that care. Hang tough!!
Kitkat
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi Kath,
I hate that I can tell when my AH is heading for a relapse
... not that I like to be surprised by it either.
But it makes me wonder now...
You said that if he relapses, that he has to leave - I have said that also.
So, does that mean our relationship depends solely on whether he is sober or not? And if it does, why are we waiting until he picks up a drink... why are we not telling him to leave now? I mean, there is a better chance that he WILL drink than to stay sober for the rest of his life.
I have to admit, that as part of my anger and profound hurt... I was sincerely HOPING that he would slip... So that I could pack up his things and get rid of it all.
I don't think this way so much now... in fact I had to change my "boundary" where this was concerned, because I suddenly realized how kicking him out as soon as he drinks, is a RULE, not a boundary. There are ways that I have been able to maintain my health, happiness and serenity whether he is drinking or not.
I guess in one way, I am so sympathetic and I relate completely... and in another way, I feel like I have to warn you of the danger of placing all of your relationship and expectations in HIS hands; chances are he WILL drink.
It's kinda like giving him an egg on a spoon, and saying "Don't drop it now! Or you'll have to leave..."
Take care
Meg
I hate that I can tell when my AH is heading for a relapse
... not that I like to be surprised by it either.But it makes me wonder now...
You said that if he relapses, that he has to leave - I have said that also.
So, does that mean our relationship depends solely on whether he is sober or not? And if it does, why are we waiting until he picks up a drink... why are we not telling him to leave now? I mean, there is a better chance that he WILL drink than to stay sober for the rest of his life.
I have to admit, that as part of my anger and profound hurt... I was sincerely HOPING that he would slip... So that I could pack up his things and get rid of it all.
I don't think this way so much now... in fact I had to change my "boundary" where this was concerned, because I suddenly realized how kicking him out as soon as he drinks, is a RULE, not a boundary. There are ways that I have been able to maintain my health, happiness and serenity whether he is drinking or not.
I guess in one way, I am so sympathetic and I relate completely... and in another way, I feel like I have to warn you of the danger of placing all of your relationship and expectations in HIS hands; chances are he WILL drink.
It's kinda like giving him an egg on a spoon, and saying "Don't drop it now! Or you'll have to leave..."
Take care
Meg
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
I see your point, Meg. And I guess in my situation I need that final reason to leave - that somehow I can be completely justified and not place the blame for the relationship ending just on my shoulders (hence I am really screwed up and can't have a healthy relationship, but I don't want that to be the reason to leave - I would rather have a solid instance where I can just say "that's it").
This really isn't fair to them, because the chances are they will slip at some point. Is this part of our sickness? The need to feel completely justified so as not to feel any of the blame?
Hmmmm....
This really isn't fair to them, because the chances are they will slip at some point. Is this part of our sickness? The need to feel completely justified so as not to feel any of the blame?
Hmmmm....
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
hey Kitkat,
Yup... I think that IS part of our problem.
I mean, when he is drinking, we have somewhere to put all of our anger and hurt and unhappiness... even if it is not all stemming from his disease and behavior.
And when he "gets sober", we suddenly have to take responsibility for these feelings. It's not HIS fault I am angry - I own the feeling, not him.
So, if we are waiting for him to screw up again... we could be waiting for the opportunity to put all the blame back on his shoulders... This is what us "codies" do! Unfortunatly, this is NOT a solution at all... even if the A is physically out of the picture, we still have all of our OWN issues - which is what is making us unhappy in the first place!
This is why it is so important that we start seeking our OWN way. We need to figure out what makes us happy, over and above the actions and behavior of our A spouse.
Ultimatly, the solution we should be seeking is to discover ourselves in this world; in this relationship. To figure out what it is that we want / need from our partner... and to make decisions based on whether our needs are being met.
As impossible as it is to take the "disease" out of the picture, we are fooling and harming ourselves by letting IT control our actions.
Am I making any sense?
Take care
Meg
Yup... I think that IS part of our problem.
I mean, when he is drinking, we have somewhere to put all of our anger and hurt and unhappiness... even if it is not all stemming from his disease and behavior.
And when he "gets sober", we suddenly have to take responsibility for these feelings. It's not HIS fault I am angry - I own the feeling, not him.
So, if we are waiting for him to screw up again... we could be waiting for the opportunity to put all the blame back on his shoulders... This is what us "codies" do! Unfortunatly, this is NOT a solution at all... even if the A is physically out of the picture, we still have all of our OWN issues - which is what is making us unhappy in the first place!
This is why it is so important that we start seeking our OWN way. We need to figure out what makes us happy, over and above the actions and behavior of our A spouse.
Ultimatly, the solution we should be seeking is to discover ourselves in this world; in this relationship. To figure out what it is that we want / need from our partner... and to make decisions based on whether our needs are being met.
As impossible as it is to take the "disease" out of the picture, we are fooling and harming ourselves by letting IT control our actions.
Am I making any sense?
Take care
Meg
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
You make perfect sense, Meg!!
That is what I am trying to do now. I almost have the feeling that my A won't want to be with me when he finds out what I am learning about myself - but you know what? That's ok. I think I'm ready to be the one to blame and it will almost make it easier. I really don't think we are compatible and I don't see us ever being compatible. But I'm ok with that, because at least I am finding out who I am and what I need to do to be happy.
That is what I am trying to do now. I almost have the feeling that my A won't want to be with me when he finds out what I am learning about myself - but you know what? That's ok. I think I'm ready to be the one to blame and it will almost make it easier. I really don't think we are compatible and I don't see us ever being compatible. But I'm ok with that, because at least I am finding out who I am and what I need to do to be happy.
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San diego, CA, USA
Posts: 86
KitKat...
I can so relate to your pain... My hubby's doc was meth.. not alcohol... anyway... we been through many rehabs..counseling... blah blah blah... I understood that sobriety was never guaranteed...
Anyway... My hubby was not ready to quit using... He would lie to me tell me he was going to meetings, groups but really he was out using.. He was only doing these things to make me happy... I'm guessing to keep me quiet...
Anyway... I started to really let go of what it was that he was doing... I stopped trying to find evidence.. I stopped worrying about if I was going to stay or leave...
Then when I finally let it all go I found his stash... and then I knew that he had never stopped and was not ready to end it... So anyway to make a long story short.. I asked him to leave and he left... That was two weeks ago...
I have to admit... It's been nice not having him around...It's kind of lonely now but I felt more alone when he was around...
He was not emotionally, finiacially, or physically there for me... He was doing his own thing on the side..
I been taking this time actually taking care of myself.... I have to admit.. it's been the best two weeks I have had in a long time... somebody said something to me about a week ago... They said it's nice now that he is gone but reality will set in and you will be in pain...
I thought about what it was this person said... and I answered... I been greiving my marriage for the past two years... and reality has already set in... the difference is now I have the "Courage to change... and I accept what I cannot change!"...
I see your in san Diego... Me too...
You should check out some groups... There are outstanding support groups of people just waiting to meet you that are going through the same thing you are!!!!!!
Hugs to you my friend..
Love Clowie
I can so relate to your pain... My hubby's doc was meth.. not alcohol... anyway... we been through many rehabs..counseling... blah blah blah... I understood that sobriety was never guaranteed...
Anyway... My hubby was not ready to quit using... He would lie to me tell me he was going to meetings, groups but really he was out using.. He was only doing these things to make me happy... I'm guessing to keep me quiet...
Anyway... I started to really let go of what it was that he was doing... I stopped trying to find evidence.. I stopped worrying about if I was going to stay or leave...
Then when I finally let it all go I found his stash... and then I knew that he had never stopped and was not ready to end it... So anyway to make a long story short.. I asked him to leave and he left... That was two weeks ago...
I have to admit... It's been nice not having him around...It's kind of lonely now but I felt more alone when he was around...
He was not emotionally, finiacially, or physically there for me... He was doing his own thing on the side..
I been taking this time actually taking care of myself....
I have to admit.. it's been the best two weeks I have had in a long time... somebody said something to me about a week ago... They said it's nice now that he is gone but reality will set in and you will be in pain... I thought about what it was this person said... and I answered... I been greiving my marriage for the past two years... and reality has already set in... the difference is now I have the "Courage to change... and I accept what I cannot change!"...
I see your in san Diego... Me too...
You should check out some groups... There are outstanding support groups of people just waiting to meet you that are going through the same thing you are!!!!!!
Hugs to you my friend..
Love Clowie
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 22
Meg,
I totally understand what you're saying. It's something I have really struggled with and it's a big problem for me as well. Thing is, all I really want to know is that he's committed to trying to stay sober. In my heart, that's all I need.
But the problem is, when I tell him that, he just wants to argue about how he should be able to be a social drinker and I should agree to let him experiment with it and not leave. He sees it as a chance to push and test my limits, so I finally had to decide what my ultimate limit was.
So I guess, what I've finally settled on is my bottom line: He has to be sober. I'm there to support him in whatever way he needs to do that. But in the end, HE is the one who has to do it. And he knows exactly how to do it. He's done it and he knows what works. I find that if I give him and inch, he takes a mile and then some. So I just have to be honest about what I can accept and let him decide if he can live with that and work for it. I think it's only fair for both of us. I don't want to lie to him and say it's ok if he has one beer. It's not ok fo rme because it will bring back all those memories and obsessions for me. My limit is he has to be sober. He knows how to do it.
I used to be willing to compromise, but I always ended up getting hurt. I've compromised for seven years with this man and I just can't keep hurting myself. I feel like I know the answer. I just want to protect myself now. If he chooses self-destruct mode again, I can't go with him on it.
He did go to his meeting last night, and came back (of course) a much calmer, more peaceful person. It's amazing the change in his state of mind when he goes to AA. I wonder if he knows it or sees it? I hope so. That's all I can do right now.
We start counseling next week. Phew. I want to get all these issues out on the table in front of a neutral party and hope we can make it work. I'm feeling pretty good about the chances right now. But I'm also feeling pretty dang good about myself :shades:
Thank you all for listening and for your input. It means so much to me to have a place to share this with people who really understand. I hope each of us finds peace.
Kath
I totally understand what you're saying. It's something I have really struggled with and it's a big problem for me as well. Thing is, all I really want to know is that he's committed to trying to stay sober. In my heart, that's all I need.
But the problem is, when I tell him that, he just wants to argue about how he should be able to be a social drinker and I should agree to let him experiment with it and not leave. He sees it as a chance to push and test my limits, so I finally had to decide what my ultimate limit was.
So I guess, what I've finally settled on is my bottom line: He has to be sober. I'm there to support him in whatever way he needs to do that. But in the end, HE is the one who has to do it. And he knows exactly how to do it. He's done it and he knows what works. I find that if I give him and inch, he takes a mile and then some. So I just have to be honest about what I can accept and let him decide if he can live with that and work for it. I think it's only fair for both of us. I don't want to lie to him and say it's ok if he has one beer. It's not ok fo rme because it will bring back all those memories and obsessions for me. My limit is he has to be sober. He knows how to do it.
I used to be willing to compromise, but I always ended up getting hurt. I've compromised for seven years with this man and I just can't keep hurting myself. I feel like I know the answer. I just want to protect myself now. If he chooses self-destruct mode again, I can't go with him on it.
He did go to his meeting last night, and came back (of course) a much calmer, more peaceful person. It's amazing the change in his state of mind when he goes to AA. I wonder if he knows it or sees it? I hope so. That's all I can do right now.
We start counseling next week. Phew. I want to get all these issues out on the table in front of a neutral party and hope we can make it work. I'm feeling pretty good about the chances right now. But I'm also feeling pretty dang good about myself :shades:
Thank you all for listening and for your input. It means so much to me to have a place to share this with people who really understand. I hope each of us finds peace.
Kath
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi Kath,
It sounds like you are putting yourself first, and thats wonderful.
I know what you mean about him having to be sober... I feel this way as well; G has to be comitted to seeking recovery from drugs and alcohol if we are to continue in this relationship and as parents together.
I am quite aware of the chances of him relapsing however, and instead of making it "set in stone" that he has to leave... I am trying to take it as it comes.
If the day comes when he chooses his addicitons over his recovery from them, I will KNOW the difference, and so will he. I have learned how to recognize the "quacking", and how to keep my "hands off"; and thats good enough for me; the rest, is up to him!
I admire your strength Kath... you'll know when enough is enough.
Take care
Meg
It sounds like you are putting yourself first, and thats wonderful.
I know what you mean about him having to be sober... I feel this way as well; G has to be comitted to seeking recovery from drugs and alcohol if we are to continue in this relationship and as parents together.
I am quite aware of the chances of him relapsing however, and instead of making it "set in stone" that he has to leave... I am trying to take it as it comes.
If the day comes when he chooses his addicitons over his recovery from them, I will KNOW the difference, and so will he. I have learned how to recognize the "quacking", and how to keep my "hands off"; and thats good enough for me; the rest, is up to him!
I admire your strength Kath... you'll know when enough is enough.
Take care
Meg
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 22
make it end!!!
Ugh, I am so burnt out and ready to leave. I told him that today and he of course, pretended to be shocked. Skipped his meeting yesterday and was so pissy by the end of the night that his final words to me before bed we re "*?#!*?#!*?#!*?#! you." Nice, huh?
He still hasn't had a drink, but he's still on the "AA ruins my life" rant and "alcoholism isn't a disease." I, of course, am not even going to bother arguing with him. Someone please tell me how on earth he can believe that crap? Does he believe it or is he trying to make himself believe it? He must know that I'll never believe it.
More importantly, I need some advice about leaving. For most of our relationship, I've been the main bread-winner. Now, however I'm back in school and not working full-time. I can stay with a friend for a while and then get my own place, but I'd rather not have to struggle. What to do? I told him I was going to wait to see my therapist this week before moving out, but I'm not how ot make it through even the next few days. I don't want to be around him when he's like this.
He still hasn't had a drink, but he's still on the "AA ruins my life" rant and "alcoholism isn't a disease." I, of course, am not even going to bother arguing with him. Someone please tell me how on earth he can believe that crap? Does he believe it or is he trying to make himself believe it? He must know that I'll never believe it.
More importantly, I need some advice about leaving. For most of our relationship, I've been the main bread-winner. Now, however I'm back in school and not working full-time. I can stay with a friend for a while and then get my own place, but I'd rather not have to struggle. What to do? I told him I was going to wait to see my therapist this week before moving out, but I'm not how ot make it through even the next few days. I don't want to be around him when he's like this.
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