How the hell do we communicate?
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 3
How the hell do we communicate?
My boyfriend is dependent on alcohol. I've been hurt a few times because of this and he's promised to make changes (I'm sure you've all been here).
I told him that part of my forgiving him was to have access what changes he's making. Basically he dragged me into his mess I deserve to know what he's doing to get better, how it's going, etc. He said he would go to AA meetings. He asked me to help him find meetings. I did this and was suggesting times, places etc and he got PISSED. Oh he just asked for the website, not me to be down his throat about when if he'll go and when.
Now he tells me he's going to AC with drinking buddies for a concert. I asked if he was honestly ready for a trip like that, his answer was yes (this is via email). Anyways I asked then for information about what changes he's made that make him think he's ready. He got so defensive and responded with the classic line "if you can't see the changes then you aren't paying attention".
How the hell do we communicate? I see a theropist a few times a month and she's been helping me along with this. She says it takes time to figure out our boundaries and rolls in recovery, and lots of talking to get it right. I'm just so worried if we can't communicate how are we geting to get on with the recovery part?
I'll be seeing him tonight and I just don't know what to say. Part of me thinks fine, go but leave me out of it. Sort of protect myself from what's obviously going to go wrong. But man I can't just let his self-distruct. I'm involved, I'm bound to get hurt again... I can't sit around and wait for that.
I can't be silent but how do I voice myself without pushing him away?
I told him that part of my forgiving him was to have access what changes he's making. Basically he dragged me into his mess I deserve to know what he's doing to get better, how it's going, etc. He said he would go to AA meetings. He asked me to help him find meetings. I did this and was suggesting times, places etc and he got PISSED. Oh he just asked for the website, not me to be down his throat about when if he'll go and when.
Now he tells me he's going to AC with drinking buddies for a concert. I asked if he was honestly ready for a trip like that, his answer was yes (this is via email). Anyways I asked then for information about what changes he's made that make him think he's ready. He got so defensive and responded with the classic line "if you can't see the changes then you aren't paying attention".
How the hell do we communicate? I see a theropist a few times a month and she's been helping me along with this. She says it takes time to figure out our boundaries and rolls in recovery, and lots of talking to get it right. I'm just so worried if we can't communicate how are we geting to get on with the recovery part?
I'll be seeing him tonight and I just don't know what to say. Part of me thinks fine, go but leave me out of it. Sort of protect myself from what's obviously going to go wrong. But man I can't just let his self-distruct. I'm involved, I'm bound to get hurt again... I can't sit around and wait for that.
I can't be silent but how do I voice myself without pushing him away?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 3
I just feel like I have the right to know what's going on. Yes I have a strong opinion about what I think he should do but we've gotten that in the open as 'not supportive' so I'm trying to hold those comments back. That doesn't mean though that I have to blindly trust him. It's all about protecting me. I don't want to get hurt again, and the only way I see to prevent that is to be fully aware of the changes. I don't want to think things are fine and get slammed again. I want me being hurt to be my fault... my fault because I didn't leave in time...
So I guess you could say I want to be in control of myself. If he isn't improving and I stay around I have no one to blame but myself. I'm willing to accept that (if I chose to stay).
I need this communication. I don't see how I can keep going otherwise.
So I guess you could say I want to be in control of myself. If he isn't improving and I stay around I have no one to blame but myself. I'm willing to accept that (if I chose to stay).
I need this communication. I don't see how I can keep going otherwise.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
First off, Welcome! Keep posting, you will find alot of support and friendship here. There will be more folks along to offer their experiences and support as well.
You have presented your advice on his recovery and he has dismissed it as not supportive. Fine. He's a grown man and there is an infinite amount of help out there if he chooses to avail himself of it.
You have expressed a desire to know what's going on with his recovery. Asking him is obviously not going anywhere, it's not going to. Whatever he is doing or not doing for his recovery is his business, we'll give him that one, but in the end it is quite common for an addict who is not really seeking recovery, only playing like they are for the sake of staying out of the dog house with loved ones to say just about anything and make up a variety of recovery activities (drinking only beer instead of liqour, the immersion technique where they drink themselves sick to turn themselves off to it, etc). Anything he tells you about his road to recovery could be suspect anyway. The tell all is to watch their actions. Are they hiding out from you. Are they stopping at a bar on the way home from AA. Are they still smelling of alcohol while claiming to be dry, and in his case, going out of town with drinking buddies to a party town for a good time. Not exactly the act of someone seeking to stay away from triggering their drinking in the early stages of recovery.
You can hold back your comments and protect yourself without putting blinders on and without believing every thing is A-okay. Being supportive is about stepping back and letting them fail if that's what's going to happen. Being supportive is about not questioning their actions but watching them from a safe distance.
I can relate to not wanting to get hurt again and not wanting to tell myself I told you so. The only way I can stay strong it to take care of myself and let my ABF manage his own life. I know he can crash and burn on any given day so when I see the smoke, I head the other way. He has asked me why I don't stop him from drinking. I have had to remind him that he's a grown up making grown up decisions. If he expects someone to stop him, he's welcome to voluntarily commit himself to where they'll keep him under lock and key. I am nobody's keeper. At least not anymore.
I wish you the best. This is difficult work (recovery and self discovery). It's a long road, but you are on your way.
Best wishes,
Alice
You have presented your advice on his recovery and he has dismissed it as not supportive. Fine. He's a grown man and there is an infinite amount of help out there if he chooses to avail himself of it.
You have expressed a desire to know what's going on with his recovery. Asking him is obviously not going anywhere, it's not going to. Whatever he is doing or not doing for his recovery is his business, we'll give him that one, but in the end it is quite common for an addict who is not really seeking recovery, only playing like they are for the sake of staying out of the dog house with loved ones to say just about anything and make up a variety of recovery activities (drinking only beer instead of liqour, the immersion technique where they drink themselves sick to turn themselves off to it, etc). Anything he tells you about his road to recovery could be suspect anyway. The tell all is to watch their actions. Are they hiding out from you. Are they stopping at a bar on the way home from AA. Are they still smelling of alcohol while claiming to be dry, and in his case, going out of town with drinking buddies to a party town for a good time. Not exactly the act of someone seeking to stay away from triggering their drinking in the early stages of recovery.
You can hold back your comments and protect yourself without putting blinders on and without believing every thing is A-okay. Being supportive is about stepping back and letting them fail if that's what's going to happen. Being supportive is about not questioning their actions but watching them from a safe distance.
I can relate to not wanting to get hurt again and not wanting to tell myself I told you so. The only way I can stay strong it to take care of myself and let my ABF manage his own life. I know he can crash and burn on any given day so when I see the smoke, I head the other way. He has asked me why I don't stop him from drinking. I have had to remind him that he's a grown up making grown up decisions. If he expects someone to stop him, he's welcome to voluntarily commit himself to where they'll keep him under lock and key. I am nobody's keeper. At least not anymore.
I wish you the best. This is difficult work (recovery and self discovery). It's a long road, but you are on your way.
Best wishes,
Alice
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
i just love anvilhead on "boundaries"
trying to have a drinker not to drink is like trying to stop the sun from rising... he will do as he chooses... and you get to stay trying to control the unpredictable (will leave you mad and frustrated)
or spend time with someone who does not drink and does not have "drinking buddies"
i hated to listen to this when i arrived, but its true...
hugs!! welcome to SR
trying to have a drinker not to drink is like trying to stop the sun from rising... he will do as he chooses... and you get to stay trying to control the unpredictable (will leave you mad and frustrated)
or spend time with someone who does not drink and does not have "drinking buddies"
i hated to listen to this when i arrived, but its true...
hugs!! welcome to SR
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
My experience was getting involved with someone else's (recovery) just made me lose mine....and my mind, especially with someone who didn't have any.
You know that saying, beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?
this is one of the few times I can absolutely assert that it doesn't, and I have literally been poked in the eye with a sharp stick....hard.
"On this path lies madness"
The three C's are
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it
If I am getting upset about another persons "sobriety" I am guaranteed trying to do one of those things and it's not going well, or I wouldn't be upset.
Thing is I had to learn this all on my own and didn't listen to the advice I was given, I hope you don't suffer for as many years as I did, it's not recommended, it hurts like holy hell, and I was ready to get committed to the insane asylum by the time I was "teachable" enough to listen and ended up having to learn a whole NEW "program"
This may need to be my new signature, you cool with that Anvil?
You know that saying, beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?
this is one of the few times I can absolutely assert that it doesn't, and I have literally been poked in the eye with a sharp stick....hard.
"On this path lies madness"
The three C's are
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it
If I am getting upset about another persons "sobriety" I am guaranteed trying to do one of those things and it's not going well, or I wouldn't be upset.
Thing is I had to learn this all on my own and didn't listen to the advice I was given, I hope you don't suffer for as many years as I did, it's not recommended, it hurts like holy hell, and I was ready to get committed to the insane asylum by the time I was "teachable" enough to listen and ended up having to learn a whole NEW "program"
if you don't want a boyfriend who drinks, find one who doesn't.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Sorry for the double post but this got my brain going a bit
Sometimes I get side-tracked, and I get stuck in a boggy morass because I am asking the wrong questions, first of all I am incredibly intelligent and my problem solving capabilities are well above norm just ask me, I"ll be happy to tell you, so I "know" what's best for me and frequently others, and I'll tell them too, "well your problem is ___- and to solve it you need to ______ "
Objective viewing of this behavior shows less then stellar results fairly consistently, especially when it comes to seeing myself objectively.
Recently I was having a pretty difficult situation in a relationship, somewhat similar to yours, not exactly but close enough, the details differed but the "core" issue was the same, my big problem was how can I communicate effectively or effectively set boundaries. I was WRACKING my brains for a solution, and the more attempts I made to communicate and 'set" boundaries, the worse the situation got.
The harder I tried the more upset I got, she got, and quite frankly I was beginning to upset and bore the people around me a bit. Dogs would bark at me when I walked by, babies would cry, and I got mistaken for Dick Cheney at a particularly bad moment at one point.
So I'm talking to a friend of mine, the guys a frickin emotional neanderthal but I'm at the end of my rope here, I need help.
He listens to my whole litany of woe, at the end of it he says, "Andrew...(long pause)...what do you DO?"
"Huh???? Well I .... (long relationship explanation)"
He interrupts me, "NO, what do you DO????"
"Long life explanation, working on my house, and yard, work issues etc blah blah"
He interrupts me again, clearly getting frustrated with trying to get through to my incredibly obtuse and thick skull, "NO Andrew, what do you do all the time, all day, every day, for YOU, what occupies your attention? what inspires you?"
"...."
"uhhh......ummmm.......well...I......ummm......... ...."
He said, "You know if you just got inspired by something and started doing something for YOU, you wouldn't have TIME for all this CRAP!!!! you'd be busy focusing on that and yourself and not on HER!!!!! What happened to surfing? I see your motorcycle is dusty. So is your bicycle, your skateboard, your not sculpting, you know if you put 1/2 the energy on yourself as you do on this inane nonsense it wouldn't happen!!!!"
It helps to know what "the problem" is.
Usually it's me
trying to solve it.
with the same mind that created the problem in the first place.
My problem wasn't trying to set boundaries or communicate, it was something entirely different, but as long as I concentrated on trying to "solve" the problem, the problem increased.
Drove me F'ing nuts.
I've actually been focusing a bit on the solution lately, and strangely enough, the solution is increasing, and there has been no difficulty with communication and setting boundaries because I'm not all wrapped up in myself.
Do what you want but when I thought that way in the exact same situation I ended up barking F'ing mad, i mean completely around the bend batsh1t crazy.
I have never seen a more clear cut set of directions designed to completely drive me insane then that quote.
No one EVER "dragged" me into anything in my life, they may have stole the car but it's always been because I left the keys in the ignition in the first place, then after the first few car crashes, when quasi intelligent people leave, and take the bus or get a different car, I say "Let's go again" then say it's 'their" fault when we crash again, I end up p1ssed at "them" because they and their driving are so obviously the problem a child could see it and I ride around in the car with them, letting them drive, going where they want to go, doing what they want to do as I frantically shout instructions from the passenger seat getting angrier and angrier because I am obviously a better driver and know much better then they do and telling anybody who will listen about our car crashes to get sympathy.
What a drain of a perfectly good life.
I'm onna go back to driving my own car.
I am CONSTANTLY , nearly daily, in the most stupid and inane but painful way possible having to relearn the lesson it's not about getting "them" to behave or change, but changing me and my focus.
God I wish you well, but it didn't work out too well for me when I was in your shoes.
:ghug3
Sometimes I get side-tracked, and I get stuck in a boggy morass because I am asking the wrong questions, first of all I am incredibly intelligent and my problem solving capabilities are well above norm just ask me, I"ll be happy to tell you, so I "know" what's best for me and frequently others, and I'll tell them too, "well your problem is ___- and to solve it you need to ______ "
Objective viewing of this behavior shows less then stellar results fairly consistently, especially when it comes to seeing myself objectively.
Recently I was having a pretty difficult situation in a relationship, somewhat similar to yours, not exactly but close enough, the details differed but the "core" issue was the same, my big problem was how can I communicate effectively or effectively set boundaries. I was WRACKING my brains for a solution, and the more attempts I made to communicate and 'set" boundaries, the worse the situation got.
The harder I tried the more upset I got, she got, and quite frankly I was beginning to upset and bore the people around me a bit. Dogs would bark at me when I walked by, babies would cry, and I got mistaken for Dick Cheney at a particularly bad moment at one point.
So I'm talking to a friend of mine, the guys a frickin emotional neanderthal but I'm at the end of my rope here, I need help.
He listens to my whole litany of woe, at the end of it he says, "Andrew...(long pause)...what do you DO?"
"Huh???? Well I .... (long relationship explanation)"
He interrupts me, "NO, what do you DO????"
"Long life explanation, working on my house, and yard, work issues etc blah blah"
He interrupts me again, clearly getting frustrated with trying to get through to my incredibly obtuse and thick skull, "NO Andrew, what do you do all the time, all day, every day, for YOU, what occupies your attention? what inspires you?"
"...."
"uhhh......ummmm.......well...I......ummm......... ...."
He said, "You know if you just got inspired by something and started doing something for YOU, you wouldn't have TIME for all this CRAP!!!! you'd be busy focusing on that and yourself and not on HER!!!!! What happened to surfing? I see your motorcycle is dusty. So is your bicycle, your skateboard, your not sculpting, you know if you put 1/2 the energy on yourself as you do on this inane nonsense it wouldn't happen!!!!"
It helps to know what "the problem" is.
Usually it's me
trying to solve it.
with the same mind that created the problem in the first place.
My problem wasn't trying to set boundaries or communicate, it was something entirely different, but as long as I concentrated on trying to "solve" the problem, the problem increased.
Drove me F'ing nuts.
I've actually been focusing a bit on the solution lately, and strangely enough, the solution is increasing, and there has been no difficulty with communication and setting boundaries because I'm not all wrapped up in myself.
I told him that part of my forgiving him was to have access what changes he's making. Basically he dragged me into his mess I deserve to know what he's doing to get better
I have never seen a more clear cut set of directions designed to completely drive me insane then that quote.
No one EVER "dragged" me into anything in my life, they may have stole the car but it's always been because I left the keys in the ignition in the first place, then after the first few car crashes, when quasi intelligent people leave, and take the bus or get a different car, I say "Let's go again" then say it's 'their" fault when we crash again, I end up p1ssed at "them" because they and their driving are so obviously the problem a child could see it and I ride around in the car with them, letting them drive, going where they want to go, doing what they want to do as I frantically shout instructions from the passenger seat getting angrier and angrier because I am obviously a better driver and know much better then they do and telling anybody who will listen about our car crashes to get sympathy.
What a drain of a perfectly good life.
I'm onna go back to driving my own car.
I am CONSTANTLY , nearly daily, in the most stupid and inane but painful way possible having to relearn the lesson it's not about getting "them" to behave or change, but changing me and my focus.
God I wish you well, but it didn't work out too well for me when I was in your shoes.
:ghug3
Last edited by Ago; 07-01-2009 at 08:34 PM.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
The BIG TURNING POINT for me was when I decided my husband was a big boy and could do whatever he wanted. And I was a big girl and could decide who I did or didn't want to be married to.
Whew! What a relief that was!
L
Whew! What a relief that was!
L
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
The BIG TURNING POINT for me was when I decided my husband was a big boy and could do whatever he wanted. And I was a big girl and could decide who I did or didn't want to be married to.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South GA
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by trying2helphim
I just feel like I have the right to know what's going on.
Not to be a jerk, but that thinking set my recovery back big time. It also let me rationalize not needing to work on myself. And wouldn't you know it, my wife relapsed during that time as well!
To get myself out of this, for one week I had to think like this: "I don't give a ____ about my wife". It forced me to only worry about myself. It felt horrible and I felt so selfish. When I worried about myself, I found that I could work on my worries. I then found that when I worked on myself that I would actually see improvements. Not like when I tried to work on my wife.
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