For the parents out there......
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For the parents out there......
What I learned from my mother:
Men are more important than women.
A woman’s purpose in life is to please a man.
Not having a man is the worst thing that can happen to a woman.
If you love someone, you accept his or her behavior.
It is a wife’s job to do/say/be what her husband wants.
If there is anything the husband doesn’t like, the wife should change it.
It’s okay for someone to hurt you, as long as they love you.
If you are miserable, stick with it, you will be rewarded someday.
Always put your husband’s needs first, yours last.
In fact, you are not allowed to have needs.
My father was the alcoholic, but in her ways of adapting and coping with the alcoholism, my mother did a ton more damage to my psyche as a child than my father ever did.
So, what are you teaching your children?
L
Men are more important than women.
A woman’s purpose in life is to please a man.
Not having a man is the worst thing that can happen to a woman.
If you love someone, you accept his or her behavior.
It is a wife’s job to do/say/be what her husband wants.
If there is anything the husband doesn’t like, the wife should change it.
It’s okay for someone to hurt you, as long as they love you.
If you are miserable, stick with it, you will be rewarded someday.
Always put your husband’s needs first, yours last.
In fact, you are not allowed to have needs.
My father was the alcoholic, but in her ways of adapting and coping with the alcoholism, my mother did a ton more damage to my psyche as a child than my father ever did.
So, what are you teaching your children?
L
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
Thanks LTD. Many of those things were also taught to me by my codependant mum and dad who themselves were ACoAs. I guess they were taught by their parents.
Amoungst other things, these were reasons why I wanted out of my relationship with abf, my daughter was beginning to repeat the pattern again.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Amoungst other things, these were reasons why I wanted out of my relationship with abf, my daughter was beginning to repeat the pattern again.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
I learned many of the same things from my mother.
I also learned a lot of things from my father:
When he's angry he will beat his kids- and maybe his wife.
When he doesn't get what he wants- he gets angry.
It's important to be perfect- if not- he gets angry.
It's not ok to cry when we get beaten.
It's not ok to have feelings.
It's not ok to contradict him.
Walk on eggshells when he's angry.
Clean my room and make sure all my siblings have- in case he is angry when he comes home.
If he's angry, do what you can to make him happy.
There's no such thing as "I'm sorry."
(Can you tell there's a theme here?)
Boys are more important than girls.
Girls are not interesting.
The most important thing in the world is to put your nose to the grindstone, do well in school and tow the line.
You can have anything you want as long as you work hard enough for it.
I could go on and on with this theme.
Over the past 16 months I have been looking closely at where I came from, and why I am who I am. I am grateful to be a healthier, single mom trying to make a better, more peaceful life for my dd. Thank you for a thought-provoking thread LTD.
I also learned a lot of things from my father:
When he's angry he will beat his kids- and maybe his wife.
When he doesn't get what he wants- he gets angry.
It's important to be perfect- if not- he gets angry.
It's not ok to cry when we get beaten.
It's not ok to have feelings.
It's not ok to contradict him.
Walk on eggshells when he's angry.
Clean my room and make sure all my siblings have- in case he is angry when he comes home.
If he's angry, do what you can to make him happy.
There's no such thing as "I'm sorry."
(Can you tell there's a theme here?)
Boys are more important than girls.
Girls are not interesting.
The most important thing in the world is to put your nose to the grindstone, do well in school and tow the line.
You can have anything you want as long as you work hard enough for it.
I could go on and on with this theme.
Over the past 16 months I have been looking closely at where I came from, and why I am who I am. I am grateful to be a healthier, single mom trying to make a better, more peaceful life for my dd. Thank you for a thought-provoking thread LTD.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
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I identified with every one of these things from watching the relationship my parents had. But these really stuck out......
I always swore I'd never be like my father, but I took his characteristics into my first two marriages, along with the disease of alcoholism that he also had.
As I walk the path in recovery, I really hope I'm showing my children that relationships are equal partnerships, my fiance is my best friend and we do our best to stay focused on being equally yoked in all aspects of our life together.
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
If you love someone, you accept his or her behavior.
It’s okay for someone to hurt you, as long as they love you.
Always put your husband’s needs first, yours last.
It’s okay for someone to hurt you, as long as they love you.
Always put your husband’s needs first, yours last.
As I walk the path in recovery, I really hope I'm showing my children that relationships are equal partnerships, my fiance is my best friend and we do our best to stay focused on being equally yoked in all aspects of our life together.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 168
My mother treated my father really well, but he wasn't an alcoholic and they have a decent relationship. They're kind of old fashioned in the way that husbands work, provide for the family and take care of business outside. Wives care for the home, kids, etc...Not always a fair relationship but it worked for them.
My hubby's familiy though is a whole other ball of wax. His mother was EXACTLY as you just described. I think that's where some of his and my issues come into play. He expected me to be just like his mother. He tried to mold me, through yelling, pushing, drinking and just doing whatever he darn well pleased.
His mother waits on her family literally hand and foot. To this day she gets up my 31 year old husband by calling him at 4:30 in the morning since I won't any more. She take care of her daughters kids whenever she drops them off because she can't deal with them any more. She takes care of all of her other sons banking, by making sure all of his bills, insurance, etc... get paid. Plus gets him up like she does mine. She fixes her hubby's plate and brings it to him as well as her sons. She makes them whatever they want for dinner. They verball berate her with snide remarks and insults, but she just goes on with it all.
Mind you she works fulltime usually at least 50 hours/wk. They're always in big debt, getting a new car, guitar, whatever, but it always costs a lot of money. Sad thing is I can see her trying so hard to please while but they're never satisfied. She's always on pins and needles waiting for the next order, all the just wanting them to love her.
Yep he wanted me to be her and I refuse, REFUSE to live her sad life for the rest of my life.
My hubby's familiy though is a whole other ball of wax. His mother was EXACTLY as you just described. I think that's where some of his and my issues come into play. He expected me to be just like his mother. He tried to mold me, through yelling, pushing, drinking and just doing whatever he darn well pleased.
His mother waits on her family literally hand and foot. To this day she gets up my 31 year old husband by calling him at 4:30 in the morning since I won't any more. She take care of her daughters kids whenever she drops them off because she can't deal with them any more. She takes care of all of her other sons banking, by making sure all of his bills, insurance, etc... get paid. Plus gets him up like she does mine. She fixes her hubby's plate and brings it to him as well as her sons. She makes them whatever they want for dinner. They verball berate her with snide remarks and insults, but she just goes on with it all.
Mind you she works fulltime usually at least 50 hours/wk. They're always in big debt, getting a new car, guitar, whatever, but it always costs a lot of money. Sad thing is I can see her trying so hard to please while but they're never satisfied. She's always on pins and needles waiting for the next order, all the just wanting them to love her.
Yep he wanted me to be her and I refuse, REFUSE to live her sad life for the rest of my life.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Hey we had the same mom, but my dad wasn't an alcoholic. He was an abusive workaholic. I am looking for a place now, but I worry. I see so much anger and distrust in my children. They are 22 and 17. I pray that it isn't too late to undo some of what staying too long has done.
The worst part is some of the reason I stayed so long is due to my mother's constant disapproval and the threat of my parent's withdraw of support (love, acceptance, ect...) if I left. At this point I figure I'm just going to do what I need to. Now that I'm recovering I see that they are not really supporting me they are manipulating me into do what "they" think I should do.
So the day I leave I loose an AH and my parents, but I hopefully save my children and am true to myself for a change!:wtf2
The worst part is some of the reason I stayed so long is due to my mother's constant disapproval and the threat of my parent's withdraw of support (love, acceptance, ect...) if I left. At this point I figure I'm just going to do what I need to. Now that I'm recovering I see that they are not really supporting me they are manipulating me into do what "they" think I should do.
So the day I leave I loose an AH and my parents, but I hopefully save my children and am true to myself for a change!:wtf2
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
From my parents I learned:
Dad gets what he wants.
It's Mom's job to give it to him.
Dad's work is important.
Mom's work is optional.
Dad is strong.
Mom is weak.
Dad is fine on his own.
Mom needs Dad to be happy - she'll sacrifice whatever is necessary in order to accommodate Dad.
From his parents, my husband learned:
Dad drinks.
Mom stays - no matter what.
Makes for an interesting dynamic in my marriage!
Dad gets what he wants.
It's Mom's job to give it to him.
Dad's work is important.
Mom's work is optional.
Dad is strong.
Mom is weak.
Dad is fine on his own.
Mom needs Dad to be happy - she'll sacrifice whatever is necessary in order to accommodate Dad.
From his parents, my husband learned:
Dad drinks.
Mom stays - no matter what.
Makes for an interesting dynamic in my marriage!
Rediscovering myself
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 231
I didn't come from an alcoholic home and neither did my husband. Both our dads worked and our moms kept house. Though they had their spats, there was respect for each other. I became overachieving people pleaser and he's the freeloader. We created an environment perfect for alcoholism to grow. We got married right out of college with a bunch of promises to each other. I've kept most of mine and he hasn't kept any of his.
I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking men are disappointing and untrustworthy. I also don't want her to think women give until they break.
I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking men are disappointing and untrustworthy. I also don't want her to think women give until they break.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
The crazy thing is, I rejected all that on an intellectual level. In my early twenties, when I met my husband, I knew those things were not what I wanted in a relationship. But, even though the intellectual part of me knew that, the emotional part of me ended up going right down that same well-worn path. Children learn what they live. I only saw my dad drunk a handful of times. I'm sure he did most of his drinking after us kids were in bed, or outside the house (at the bar). They also saved their fights for after (they thought) we were asleep.
I see quite often on this board parents saying how they "protect" or "shield" their children from the alcoholic. I'm here to tell you that is impossible to do. If there is an active alcoholic living in the house, they are affected--period.
L
I see quite often on this board parents saying how they "protect" or "shield" their children from the alcoholic. I'm here to tell you that is impossible to do. If there is an active alcoholic living in the house, they are affected--period.
L
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
LTD speaks the truth. Any ACOA would agree. You may think you're protecting your children...... I also whole heartedly agree my codi mother did more damage to me than my A father. She taught me a lot I had to un-learn.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
The crazy thing is, I rejected all that on an intellectual level. In my early twenties, when I met my husband, I knew those things were not what I wanted in a relationship. But, even though the intellectual part of me knew that, the emotional part of me ended up going right down that same well-worn path.
-TC
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
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OP: What a great way to phrase this dilemma!!
I agree that the children cannot be protected or shielded. Being a member of the Christian church and being raised by a co-dependent mom who took me to church (which, by the way, i am eternally grateful to her for), I see where spouses will use their interpretation of scripture or use the advice of church leaders to stay in an addict situation because they deem it the "Christian" thing to do. That's a particularly strong denial system.
I agree that the children cannot be protected or shielded. Being a member of the Christian church and being raised by a co-dependent mom who took me to church (which, by the way, i am eternally grateful to her for), I see where spouses will use their interpretation of scripture or use the advice of church leaders to stay in an addict situation because they deem it the "Christian" thing to do. That's a particularly strong denial system.
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
I will go heartily with what LTD stated - a parent who hides, or attempts to, the alcoholism is just giving the kids a first-rate lesson in shame and denial.
During one particularly long and loud fight, as we children were presumably dozing through the tumult, I wondered exactly what bit of acoustic evidence proved to my parents that a layer of carpet and plywood was soundproof.
As much as churches are often targets for causing many of our problems, I would not lay the problem of abusive husbands at their door. I have met a number of agnostics and a few atheists and haven't found them to much better behaved (or worse) in side or outside the home. As a culture, we are probably better than we were 20-40 years ago regarding spouse abuse, but we have a ways to go.
During one particularly long and loud fight, as we children were presumably dozing through the tumult, I wondered exactly what bit of acoustic evidence proved to my parents that a layer of carpet and plywood was soundproof.
As much as churches are often targets for causing many of our problems, I would not lay the problem of abusive husbands at their door. I have met a number of agnostics and a few atheists and haven't found them to much better behaved (or worse) in side or outside the home. As a culture, we are probably better than we were 20-40 years ago regarding spouse abuse, but we have a ways to go.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
LaTeeDa, it's funny that you posted this; I was about to post something similar. I recently confided the problems with my AH to my parents. I have been in al-anon for 5 months and tried to explain to her my approach. My mother has the exact thinking that you described and she thinks I should 'fix' him; he's my husband, what he does affects me so I should step up to help prevent him from hurting himself/embarrassing himself etc. What about me? My health, my happiness, my daughter?????
Last week I decided that my AH and I need space. She feels I'm breaking up my family (I asked her WHO is really breaking it up?) where I should be 'helping' him. That what I'm doing may not get the result I want from him (um, no result mom, just trying to take healthy steps forward and focus on me). And I wonder how I became so co-dependent??????? Wow. Now on top of everything else, I have to deal with her opinions which are all the exact opposite of what I've been trying to do in recovery.
I grew up powerless. Your quotes that Astro highlighted are bang on.
Last week I decided that my AH and I need space. She feels I'm breaking up my family (I asked her WHO is really breaking it up?) where I should be 'helping' him. That what I'm doing may not get the result I want from him (um, no result mom, just trying to take healthy steps forward and focus on me). And I wonder how I became so co-dependent??????? Wow. Now on top of everything else, I have to deal with her opinions which are all the exact opposite of what I've been trying to do in recovery.
I grew up powerless. Your quotes that Astro highlighted are bang on.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
I see that most posters are talking about what they were taught by their parents, but I'm responding to the question: "So, what are you teaching your children?"
When my oldest son was a senior in HS, there was some senior prank in which he wanted to be involved. I don't remember the exact details, but I do remember that it had an element of anti-semitism and that it had the potential to be dangerous. My son really wanted to be involved in this and I told him "No."
Now, I've always tried to teach my kids to question everything, to think for themselves, and to never, ever to give anyone their blind, unquestioning allegiance/obedience to anyone (including parents) -- and most especially to anyone who seems to think he/she deserves it. (...and, BTW, this was also the way I was raised by mo own parents.) Thus, we've always had the understanding that if I have a position and they have a different one and they can prove in rational, respectful discussion that they can support their position better than I can support mine, then I will, of course, defer to them. When they were young, this, of course, never happened, but I do have to say that, over the last, maybe 5 years or so, there have been a few times when they have out-reasoned me fair and square (a fact of which I am actually very, very proud!) and, therefore, have won their point and gotten their way.
But, this particular time with the senior prank was not one of those times -- because, really, how are you going successfully argue that your mom should let you do something anti-semitic and potentially dangerous??? But, he did give it his best shot (even tried the "but most of this kids who do this are Jewish" angle) because he really wanted to do it. Finally, when I said: "E, give it up. There is no way you can win this, and you are not going to do it. This discussion is over," he was really, really angry.
And suddenly, I looked up at his face and realized how angry he was. I also realized that he was 6'2" (to my 5'4") and the stroke seat of the NYS Champion HS men's 4 boat for that year, and that, if he decided he was going to do this there was no way in h*ll that I could physically stop him. I also realized that he was really mad and if he decided to hit me or something, I would probably come to in Buffalo -- if I came to at all.
And then, just as suddenly, I realized that, in his mind, he didn't realize any of that and that, in his mind, there was absolutely no question that if I said "No and this discussion is over," that the discussion was over and he was not going to participate in this particular activity.
Thus far, that has been one of the most striking and gratifying incidents in which I've realized what I've taught my kids.
freya
When my oldest son was a senior in HS, there was some senior prank in which he wanted to be involved. I don't remember the exact details, but I do remember that it had an element of anti-semitism and that it had the potential to be dangerous. My son really wanted to be involved in this and I told him "No."
Now, I've always tried to teach my kids to question everything, to think for themselves, and to never, ever to give anyone their blind, unquestioning allegiance/obedience to anyone (including parents) -- and most especially to anyone who seems to think he/she deserves it. (...and, BTW, this was also the way I was raised by mo own parents.) Thus, we've always had the understanding that if I have a position and they have a different one and they can prove in rational, respectful discussion that they can support their position better than I can support mine, then I will, of course, defer to them. When they were young, this, of course, never happened, but I do have to say that, over the last, maybe 5 years or so, there have been a few times when they have out-reasoned me fair and square (a fact of which I am actually very, very proud!) and, therefore, have won their point and gotten their way.
But, this particular time with the senior prank was not one of those times -- because, really, how are you going successfully argue that your mom should let you do something anti-semitic and potentially dangerous??? But, he did give it his best shot (even tried the "but most of this kids who do this are Jewish" angle) because he really wanted to do it. Finally, when I said: "E, give it up. There is no way you can win this, and you are not going to do it. This discussion is over," he was really, really angry.
And suddenly, I looked up at his face and realized how angry he was. I also realized that he was 6'2" (to my 5'4") and the stroke seat of the NYS Champion HS men's 4 boat for that year, and that, if he decided he was going to do this there was no way in h*ll that I could physically stop him. I also realized that he was really mad and if he decided to hit me or something, I would probably come to in Buffalo -- if I came to at all.
And then, just as suddenly, I realized that, in his mind, he didn't realize any of that and that, in his mind, there was absolutely no question that if I said "No and this discussion is over," that the discussion was over and he was not going to participate in this particular activity.
Thus far, that has been one of the most striking and gratifying incidents in which I've realized what I've taught my kids.
freya
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
I've taught my kids that when dad's drinking (or even if not, but just angry), you stay out of his way.
Moms and dads can go for weeks without really speaking to each other.
No matter what the decision....what we are having for dinner, what's on TV, what we are listening to in the car, dad has the final say.
Mom's are the ones that will taxi you to practice, be at your games, pay for all of your clothes and school fees, run herself ragged for whatever you think you need at the moment.
Somehow, they have also learned to make good, moral decisions. I have been able to nurture their natural abilities and cheer them on through the tough times. I often say I have the most amazing 4 kids on the planet. The sad thing is just last night AH told me he "puts up with having kids and a dog he doesn't even want" to keep his marriage. After hearing from you ACOA's I know that no matter what lengths I go to, they will still feel his true feeling about fathering them. Thank you for sharing this. It confirms that my 4 amazing kids would be better off with 1 amazing mom.
Moms and dads can go for weeks without really speaking to each other.
No matter what the decision....what we are having for dinner, what's on TV, what we are listening to in the car, dad has the final say.
Mom's are the ones that will taxi you to practice, be at your games, pay for all of your clothes and school fees, run herself ragged for whatever you think you need at the moment.
Somehow, they have also learned to make good, moral decisions. I have been able to nurture their natural abilities and cheer them on through the tough times. I often say I have the most amazing 4 kids on the planet. The sad thing is just last night AH told me he "puts up with having kids and a dog he doesn't even want" to keep his marriage. After hearing from you ACOA's I know that no matter what lengths I go to, they will still feel his true feeling about fathering them. Thank you for sharing this. It confirms that my 4 amazing kids would be better off with 1 amazing mom.
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The impetus for my divorce from my boys' dad was simple...there was this moment when I was slumped on the kitchen floor, sobbing and holding onto my2 and 4 yr old sons and the realization hit me that my boys were learning how to treat their wives by watching how their father treated me.
I called my parents and arranged for a lawyer that afternoon. For some reason, I couldn't do it for myself, but I could do it for my boys.
I'd like to say that we all lived happily and healthy ever after, but it took me awhile to find recovery and put the principles to work in my own life.
Today I can say that my sons have seen me working the Al Anon program for 14 years. That means I started when they were young teens. They see me today in a healthy relationship with a wonderful man who has no drug or alcohol problems... and at the very least, I think they will know where to go when their world crashes down around them.
I called my parents and arranged for a lawyer that afternoon. For some reason, I couldn't do it for myself, but I could do it for my boys.
I'd like to say that we all lived happily and healthy ever after, but it took me awhile to find recovery and put the principles to work in my own life.
Today I can say that my sons have seen me working the Al Anon program for 14 years. That means I started when they were young teens. They see me today in a healthy relationship with a wonderful man who has no drug or alcohol problems... and at the very least, I think they will know where to go when their world crashes down around them.
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