New day, same story
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 7
New day, same story
Hello,
I'm new here and can say that I'm happy to have found this forum. From the posts that I have read I'm starting to realize that I'm not alone and that there's help out there.
If you'd asked me 15 years ago where my family would be now, this isn't want I would have imagined. My father has been an alcoholic for about 10 years now, although I can remember him and my mom getting into fights about his drinking as far back as 20 years ago. In the past year it has really escalated and gotten out of control. Last June it got to the point that my siblings and I held an intervention with him, telling him he had two choices: continue down his current path or find a better way of life. I thought it had worked - he showed real improvement. Only to find out that less than two weeks later, rather than drink the cheap vodka from down the street he was drinking cheap mouthwash. The really sad part? He's a dentist. Is that ironic or just pathetic?
My mom's finally left, although this is the usual pattern they go through. He goes on a binge, she leaves, he apologizes and "shows effort to get better", and she goes back. Last week she finally left to get some time by herself. So everything's in limbo. I'm hoping that the pattern is broken and she moves on and goes through the divorce.
I feel torn between everyone and everything, from my parents to my siblings to the bleak future for my family. I'm very thankful to have an amazing fiance who has been supportive. And the good thing that has come from this whole thing is that I've learned from other people's mistakes and am trying not to repeat it in my own life. But that just makes my dealing with this whole situation so much more confusing. I have a good life only to get sucked into this dark pit that just won't get better. Parent's are suppose to support and nurture, not try to ruin your life. I want to be supportive, and I am of my mom. But I can't even think too much about my dad without feeling betrayed and angry and just over it - him, the drinking, the same ol' sob story he tells every time we confront him. My brother makes me feel guilty (although I dont' think that's his intention) for not being there for dad. But how many times should I be there and keep being disappointed before enough is enough?
And where do I go from here with my dad? I live a couple states away, so it's hard to be a part of the situation. But I'm involved enough to feel a part of it. Do I drag my dad to rehab? It's hard to do that when he's potentially dangerous and he has his reputation as a dentist to protect. And frankly there's no money there to support a rehab visit. He refuses to go to AA or any other type of therapy. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens. Maybe my mom will break the pattern, go through the divorce and they can both move forward. I can only be supportive of those people who want to live a good life. And if that's not what my dad wants to do, then I don't think I want to be a part of it. If that's the truth though, then why do I feel guilty and like such a horrible person for feeling that way?
I'm new here and can say that I'm happy to have found this forum. From the posts that I have read I'm starting to realize that I'm not alone and that there's help out there.
If you'd asked me 15 years ago where my family would be now, this isn't want I would have imagined. My father has been an alcoholic for about 10 years now, although I can remember him and my mom getting into fights about his drinking as far back as 20 years ago. In the past year it has really escalated and gotten out of control. Last June it got to the point that my siblings and I held an intervention with him, telling him he had two choices: continue down his current path or find a better way of life. I thought it had worked - he showed real improvement. Only to find out that less than two weeks later, rather than drink the cheap vodka from down the street he was drinking cheap mouthwash. The really sad part? He's a dentist. Is that ironic or just pathetic?
My mom's finally left, although this is the usual pattern they go through. He goes on a binge, she leaves, he apologizes and "shows effort to get better", and she goes back. Last week she finally left to get some time by herself. So everything's in limbo. I'm hoping that the pattern is broken and she moves on and goes through the divorce.
I feel torn between everyone and everything, from my parents to my siblings to the bleak future for my family. I'm very thankful to have an amazing fiance who has been supportive. And the good thing that has come from this whole thing is that I've learned from other people's mistakes and am trying not to repeat it in my own life. But that just makes my dealing with this whole situation so much more confusing. I have a good life only to get sucked into this dark pit that just won't get better. Parent's are suppose to support and nurture, not try to ruin your life. I want to be supportive, and I am of my mom. But I can't even think too much about my dad without feeling betrayed and angry and just over it - him, the drinking, the same ol' sob story he tells every time we confront him. My brother makes me feel guilty (although I dont' think that's his intention) for not being there for dad. But how many times should I be there and keep being disappointed before enough is enough?
And where do I go from here with my dad? I live a couple states away, so it's hard to be a part of the situation. But I'm involved enough to feel a part of it. Do I drag my dad to rehab? It's hard to do that when he's potentially dangerous and he has his reputation as a dentist to protect. And frankly there's no money there to support a rehab visit. He refuses to go to AA or any other type of therapy. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens. Maybe my mom will break the pattern, go through the divorce and they can both move forward. I can only be supportive of those people who want to live a good life. And if that's not what my dad wants to do, then I don't think I want to be a part of it. If that's the truth though, then why do I feel guilty and like such a horrible person for feeling that way?
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
Hi nice,
Welcome to SR. Yes, there is a lot of good info here.
One very useful bit of info regards ourselves and their addiction:
The 3 C's
I didn't Cause it
I Can't control it
I Can't cure it
If you look over the 12 steps - and this is echoed in any treatment program - there is nothing in there that remotely hints or implies that recovery is under the control of anyone other than the alcoholic and his/her Higher Power. Is is sad, but your dad is still making the wrong decisions, and it nothing will change until he decides it will change. He has to hit his personal bottom.
For the sake of your own sanity you have to learn to detach yourself from his fate. You have to build boundaries that define how you will and will not react to your dad's addiction. It sounds like your mom is doing just that - removing herself from the alcoholic's s realm.
You can show, very much, that you love him but make it clear that you will not let his insanity become your insanity. Moreover, much of what we think is well-intended support becomes 'enabling' that makes it easier for the alcoholic stay addicted.
Others will be along with really really good advice and support. You are by no means alone.
(Though I think the hectic holidays have lessened the amount of posting in this little corner a little)
Welcome to SR. Yes, there is a lot of good info here.
One very useful bit of info regards ourselves and their addiction:
The 3 C's
I didn't Cause it
I Can't control it
I Can't cure it
If you look over the 12 steps - and this is echoed in any treatment program - there is nothing in there that remotely hints or implies that recovery is under the control of anyone other than the alcoholic and his/her Higher Power. Is is sad, but your dad is still making the wrong decisions, and it nothing will change until he decides it will change. He has to hit his personal bottom.
For the sake of your own sanity you have to learn to detach yourself from his fate. You have to build boundaries that define how you will and will not react to your dad's addiction. It sounds like your mom is doing just that - removing herself from the alcoholic's s realm.
You can show, very much, that you love him but make it clear that you will not let his insanity become your insanity. Moreover, much of what we think is well-intended support becomes 'enabling' that makes it easier for the alcoholic stay addicted.
Others will be along with really really good advice and support. You are by no means alone.
(Though I think the hectic holidays have lessened the amount of posting in this little corner a little)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
hi Nise,
'barn is right, right, and right. But I know it is one thing to say "My parents' problems are THEIR problems" and another thing put that into action on a day-to-day basis. You have little choice right now but to try.
One thing we learn by perusing these forums -- especially the Friends & Family of Alcoholics forum and its "sticky" posts at the top -- is that it is critical to "put our own oxygen masks on first." It is not doing you (or your father, mother, brother) any good by allowing yourself to be drawn into a situation you cannot control or cure.
Your mother needs to make her own decisions; you can let her know you love her, but beyond that she is an adult and will choose to change her life when she is ready, if ever.
Your father is making his own choices; you can let him know you love him too, and hope he finds his way, but you cannot let yourself get sucked into his alcoholic chaos. If it takes going no-contact to protect yourself from his actions, then you may have to choose that route. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN LIFE TO BUILD.
Your brother means well, I'm sure, but you need to let him know where your boundaries are, as in, "I don't really want to discuss Dad's problem any more. There is nothing more we can do, it's all up to him, and you're making me really uncomfortable."
A lot of us have found that Al-Anon meetings helped us to patch those energy holes where it seems like we keep getting drawn into the mess we didn't create. There is a lot of experience, strength, hope, and creativity in those meetings, and I have received a ton of effective support from them in dealing with my alcoholic family members (six and counting!)
Breathe deeply. Count your gratitudes. Hug your fiancee. And try anew to separate YOUR journey from theirs.
This is sad - alcoholism is just plain sad - but there comes a time with many alcoholics when you have to (as they say here) "let go or be dragged."
Hugs and strength to you ---
'barn is right, right, and right. But I know it is one thing to say "My parents' problems are THEIR problems" and another thing put that into action on a day-to-day basis. You have little choice right now but to try.
One thing we learn by perusing these forums -- especially the Friends & Family of Alcoholics forum and its "sticky" posts at the top -- is that it is critical to "put our own oxygen masks on first." It is not doing you (or your father, mother, brother) any good by allowing yourself to be drawn into a situation you cannot control or cure.
Your mother needs to make her own decisions; you can let her know you love her, but beyond that she is an adult and will choose to change her life when she is ready, if ever.
Your father is making his own choices; you can let him know you love him too, and hope he finds his way, but you cannot let yourself get sucked into his alcoholic chaos. If it takes going no-contact to protect yourself from his actions, then you may have to choose that route. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN LIFE TO BUILD.
Your brother means well, I'm sure, but you need to let him know where your boundaries are, as in, "I don't really want to discuss Dad's problem any more. There is nothing more we can do, it's all up to him, and you're making me really uncomfortable."
A lot of us have found that Al-Anon meetings helped us to patch those energy holes where it seems like we keep getting drawn into the mess we didn't create. There is a lot of experience, strength, hope, and creativity in those meetings, and I have received a ton of effective support from them in dealing with my alcoholic family members (six and counting!)
Breathe deeply. Count your gratitudes. Hug your fiancee. And try anew to separate YOUR journey from theirs.
This is sad - alcoholism is just plain sad - but there comes a time with many alcoholics when you have to (as they say here) "let go or be dragged."
Hugs and strength to you ---
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Ah nise! Your post triggers so many responses in me. I'll try to write organized, and start with welcoming you here. Thank you for being brave enough to share your story.
Seconding Grewupinabarn and GiveLove. If living a healthy life is something your dad doesn't want for himself, it is NOT your fault that you can't change that. Repeat: it is NOT your fault.
I really like your idea about supporting those who want a good life for themselves. That's what I've tried with my family (father also the alcoholic with sob stories for any thing you try to criticise or call him on - forgiveness doesn't come easy when what he does is never really his fault). For me, only with the skilled support of a counsellor could I gain perspective on how immeshed I was in my family's drama. In counselling I realized HOW MUCH attention my dad gets - from everyone! It's like the whole family revolves around him and the effects of his drinking. This sounds very much like your dad, including a mom who waffles on the edge of divorce regularly.
Can someone pass more guilt please, cause I must have missed my helping today. Guilt is a very powerful tool misused by alcoholics that keeps ACoAs behaving how the alcoholic wants them too. If it weren't for this toxic guilt, you'd be living the healthier life you know is waiting for you - this kind of life that you can see other people living, but can't quite see for yourself yet.
Dysfunctional/alcoholic families have certain dynamics in play that keep everyone in the family playing their part (which is ultimately to maintain the "family" but without actually resolving the problems presented by the alcoholic). When one family member tries to break out of their role/dynamic, other members may actually work harder at dragging the escapee back down into the dark pit. This is what I see your brother doing, intentionally or not. I'm sure his energy is being sucked dry by giving his attention to your dad, and he's probably hoping you'll relieve some of that load. But in accomplishing this, he's not appealing to your sense of good will or well-being. He's playing on the guilt you learned as a child - that when your dad is unhappy/depressed/drunk, it's your fault for not trying harder.
A couple things might help with the guilt. First, your poor relationship with your dad is NOT a reflection of you. Not your character, not your ability to have good relationships, and certainly not your self-worth. You've got a wonderful supportive relationship with your mother, and are still developing adult relationships with your siblings (from the sounds of it). Focus on these great relationships and identify yourself with them.
Second, you've got to manage your relationship with the dark pit that is your family's drama - *NOT* your family, but how you deal with hearing about the drama. I would strongly recommend a counsellor in helping you develop and reinforce new healthy life tools. Don't sabatoge yourself by setting out with some of the broken life tools your parents have passed on to you. Distance with love. Boundaries. All the buzzwords you'll see on the posts in this forum. These are some of the things that will help you break out of old learned behaviors.
In the meantime, I really hear what you're saying about the anger at your dad. If I spend more than an hour with my AF I feel it all bubble back up to the surface, and I know it's because there's still so much hurt at the sh*tty decisions he's made. I can't talk to him about it - it's never his fault. My feelings are never more important than how he really *wasn't* responsible for hurting my feelings because he had a sh*tty life. Yeah, I'm tired of hearing the same ol' sob story too. Tired, angry, and still guilty sometimes. But those feelings are only there when I'm in contact with him, and worse when the contact is frequent. I'm at the point where I can not physically be in the same space with him for more than 20 minutes without raging deep down inside. The most effective solution for me has been distance with limited phone contact.
Don't wait and see what happens; afterall, deep down inside you know how this is most likely going to play out. You don't have to wait for your mom for this pattern to break either. There's a lot of resources out there for ACoAs to read through and help detangle all the guilt, anger, disappointment, grief, etc. Change can happen. It might not happen to your whole family all at once. But it can certainly happen for you. If you want any suggested reading material, I'd be happy to recommend some. Hang in there, nise!
Seconding Grewupinabarn and GiveLove. If living a healthy life is something your dad doesn't want for himself, it is NOT your fault that you can't change that. Repeat: it is NOT your fault.
I really like your idea about supporting those who want a good life for themselves. That's what I've tried with my family (father also the alcoholic with sob stories for any thing you try to criticise or call him on - forgiveness doesn't come easy when what he does is never really his fault). For me, only with the skilled support of a counsellor could I gain perspective on how immeshed I was in my family's drama. In counselling I realized HOW MUCH attention my dad gets - from everyone! It's like the whole family revolves around him and the effects of his drinking. This sounds very much like your dad, including a mom who waffles on the edge of divorce regularly.
Can someone pass more guilt please, cause I must have missed my helping today. Guilt is a very powerful tool misused by alcoholics that keeps ACoAs behaving how the alcoholic wants them too. If it weren't for this toxic guilt, you'd be living the healthier life you know is waiting for you - this kind of life that you can see other people living, but can't quite see for yourself yet.
Dysfunctional/alcoholic families have certain dynamics in play that keep everyone in the family playing their part (which is ultimately to maintain the "family" but without actually resolving the problems presented by the alcoholic). When one family member tries to break out of their role/dynamic, other members may actually work harder at dragging the escapee back down into the dark pit. This is what I see your brother doing, intentionally or not. I'm sure his energy is being sucked dry by giving his attention to your dad, and he's probably hoping you'll relieve some of that load. But in accomplishing this, he's not appealing to your sense of good will or well-being. He's playing on the guilt you learned as a child - that when your dad is unhappy/depressed/drunk, it's your fault for not trying harder.
A couple things might help with the guilt. First, your poor relationship with your dad is NOT a reflection of you. Not your character, not your ability to have good relationships, and certainly not your self-worth. You've got a wonderful supportive relationship with your mother, and are still developing adult relationships with your siblings (from the sounds of it). Focus on these great relationships and identify yourself with them.
Second, you've got to manage your relationship with the dark pit that is your family's drama - *NOT* your family, but how you deal with hearing about the drama. I would strongly recommend a counsellor in helping you develop and reinforce new healthy life tools. Don't sabatoge yourself by setting out with some of the broken life tools your parents have passed on to you. Distance with love. Boundaries. All the buzzwords you'll see on the posts in this forum. These are some of the things that will help you break out of old learned behaviors.
In the meantime, I really hear what you're saying about the anger at your dad. If I spend more than an hour with my AF I feel it all bubble back up to the surface, and I know it's because there's still so much hurt at the sh*tty decisions he's made. I can't talk to him about it - it's never his fault. My feelings are never more important than how he really *wasn't* responsible for hurting my feelings because he had a sh*tty life. Yeah, I'm tired of hearing the same ol' sob story too. Tired, angry, and still guilty sometimes. But those feelings are only there when I'm in contact with him, and worse when the contact is frequent. I'm at the point where I can not physically be in the same space with him for more than 20 minutes without raging deep down inside. The most effective solution for me has been distance with limited phone contact.
Don't wait and see what happens; afterall, deep down inside you know how this is most likely going to play out. You don't have to wait for your mom for this pattern to break either. There's a lot of resources out there for ACoAs to read through and help detangle all the guilt, anger, disappointment, grief, etc. Change can happen. It might not happen to your whole family all at once. But it can certainly happen for you. If you want any suggested reading material, I'd be happy to recommend some. Hang in there, nise!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by dothi 
Dysfunctional/alcoholic families have certain dynamics in play that keep everyone in the family playing their part (which is ultimately to maintain the "family" but without actually resolving the problems presented by the alcoholic). When one family member tries to break out of their role/dynamic, other members may actually work harder at dragging the escapee back down into the dark pit. This is what I see your brother doing, intentionally or not. I'm sure his energy is being sucked dry by giving his attention to your dad, and he's probably hoping you'll relieve some of that load. But in accomplishing this, he's not appealing to your sense of good will or well-being. He's playing on the guilt you learned as a child - that when your dad is unhappy/depressed/drunk, it's your fault for not trying harder.
My Dad (88) is the alcoholic -- as well as the raging tyrannical control freak who has always treated us like hired help. I live 50 miles away, and my sister lives 3000 miles away. Now that my mom is gone, Dad is in full-on beg-a-thon mode, trying to get one or both of us to move back to the house we grew up in and resume our original roles as hired help, in Dad's "it's all about me" concept of life.
Well, f890 that -- I am not doing it. I have program tools to deal with his stuff, and I am not going back. But that doesn't mean he doesn't keep trying! It's gotten to where neither my sister nor I can talk to him about ANYTHING of substance -- so we don't. We talk to each other all the time -- why doesn't Dad consider assisted living, moving closer to the city, no I'm not going back and be under his thumb again, etc. But there simply is no talking to Dad direcly about it -- even at this late stage, where he's getting frail and is only marginally able to cope with daily living, he is still so intimidating to us that forget it, we can't talk to him.
I know I sound like a broken record on this -- but this game of Chicken continues to go on. Dad continues to try to beg, manipulate, bribe (with our impending inheritance money), guilt/shame, and otherwise pull every alkie trick in the book to try to get my sister and me to go back to the nest and be dependent babies again. As I keep saying/thinking, if he and I were the same age, I'd have no choice but to cut ties and just kick him the h3ll out of my life. As it is, I'm just running out the clock on him, one day at a time.... :-(
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 7
Thank you everyone, for the warm welcome, the well wishes and the wonderful advice, thoughts and sharing your own experiences. Ever since finding this forum I've felt a little bit of the load I've been carrying around become less of a burden. Hearing your own experiences and seeing that the steps I'm taking aren't wrong has shed so much light onto my situation. It's also great being able to tell my story and see if there are other ways of looking at it.
And it's so amazing to have decisions I had already formed but not acted upon validated. I'm so happy to have found support!
Thank you again - well wishes to everyone!
And it's so amazing to have decisions I had already formed but not acted upon validated. I'm so happy to have found support!
Thank you again - well wishes to everyone!
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by nise
And where do I go from here with my dad? I live a couple states away, so it's hard to be a part of the situation. But I'm involved enough to feel a part of it. Do I drag my dad to rehab? It's hard to do that when he's potentially dangerous and he has his reputation as a dentist to protect. And frankly there's no money there to support a rehab visit. He refuses to go to AA or any other type of therapy. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens. Maybe my mom will break the pattern, go through the divorce and they can both move forward. I can only be supportive of those people who want to live a good life. And if that's not what my dad wants to do, then I don't think I want to be a part of it. If that's the truth though, then why do I feel guilty and like such a horrible person for feeling that way?
It's the problem of the adult child... I'm losing out on a healthy, loving relationship with my mother because she's using. I feel like I am judged by other peopled because I can't maintain a healthy, functioning relationship with my mother. I judge myself because I can't maintain a healthy relationship with my mother. There are messages in our culture that parent/child relationships should be unconditional -- no matter how abusive or mentally ill the parent is.
The complete wreck of my relationship with my mother is not my fault, but I still feel like a bad person for trying to take care of myself.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
(((Kallista)))
I'm sorry your mom is missing out on being in your life. I'm not sorry you aren't taking a front row seat to her addiction. I wish things had turned out differently for you but......you're not a bad person. You've tried, but you're just not superhuman...you can't change someone else's choices. Take care of yourself.
I'm sorry your mom is missing out on being in your life. I'm not sorry you aren't taking a front row seat to her addiction. I wish things had turned out differently for you but......you're not a bad person. You've tried, but you're just not superhuman...you can't change someone else's choices. Take care of yourself.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 7
Kallista,
Something I've learned through this whole experience with my dad is that it's his loss, not mine. Do I wish I had a better relationship with my dad? Of course! But us not having a relationship isn't for lack of effort on my part. It's his drinking and substance abuse and refusal to acknowledge his own mistakes and faults. Our lack of relationship isn't a reflection on my character - it's a reflection on his. Your lack of relationship with your mom is reflection on her substance abuse, not you. You shouldn't feel guilty for looking after yourself. Guilt will drag all of us down the same path our parents have taken. And we all know where that leads.
To grewupinabarn, tromboneliness, GiveLove and dothi,
I took all your advice and thoughts to heart. I had a long talk with my mom yesterday and passed along some of your own shared experiences and they helped in a way that I can't even express in words. So thank you again.
Best wishes to everyone!
Something I've learned through this whole experience with my dad is that it's his loss, not mine. Do I wish I had a better relationship with my dad? Of course! But us not having a relationship isn't for lack of effort on my part. It's his drinking and substance abuse and refusal to acknowledge his own mistakes and faults. Our lack of relationship isn't a reflection on my character - it's a reflection on his. Your lack of relationship with your mom is reflection on her substance abuse, not you. You shouldn't feel guilty for looking after yourself. Guilt will drag all of us down the same path our parents have taken. And we all know where that leads.
To grewupinabarn, tromboneliness, GiveLove and dothi,
I took all your advice and thoughts to heart. I had a long talk with my mom yesterday and passed along some of your own shared experiences and they helped in a way that I can't even express in words. So thank you again.
Best wishes to everyone!
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