Abundance

is my struggle. I'm mostly in my guy's zone... where I am holding onto my reality by a very thin thread. How do I get out of his reality?

How do I focus just on me? Sometimes I'll catch myself for a small amount of time and relish in it - but then my thinking about it and relishing in it - I'll get this nagging feeling to go back into his.... and then follows anxiety and depression - resulting in being back in his world. Is this obsession? Why does it call to me? Am I picking up his sense of control that is "out of control" - but his shell of example exudes confidence in the false sense of control? For example - his being able to escape and not feel/deal... is the easy way - am I attracted to that? However, I seek into his world because I want to understand, but the anxiety I feel when doing so - is the physical sensation telling me ...... NO ... STOP ... it's toxic... it's NOT real. YET - I'm drawn to that. WHY? My sensations in my body are telling me no... yet I go. Is that normal? Wouldn't most people feel these sensations and stay away? Why don't I? Why must I challenge them?

Actually I have done so since childhood. If someone was not nice - instead of passing judgement or walking away - I push myself into their zone to see their true and real being. I think I don't like seeing the ugly in people.. I have this urge to challenge them - to see the good they are hiding.

Is this co-dependence in it's finest?

Do I feel that if I get into my life and my needs that I'll then have resentments towards him? Is it resentments that I am fearful of?

HELP!

Intellectually...... I "get it".... I KNOW what it is that is wrong with me. However, doing it - it is so hard. It's like a sphere of energy - it's as though I have to meditate on breaking through it. It's magnetic destruction. Are their books that can help visually guide me to break through into my reality?

Troubledone

Abundance

You are asking some great questions (in my opinion).

I think many of us have been where you are at one time or another, both drawn to and repelled by someone we love who is addicted.

What I have discovered is that all human beings (except maybe the really great spiritual leaders of all time) are addicted to something in our lives. The obsession/addiction keeps us from feeling all our feelings and getting in touch with ourselves. It is a way of distracting our selves.

I think most of us are avoiding complete intimacy with ourselves - really knowing and accepting everything that we are - good and bad - and accepting that with love before we decide what we want to do with what we find in ourselves. That to me is reality - knowing myself, warts and all.

As I work on allowing all my feelings to be felt and looking at all the places I am "attached" to controlling outcomes, I'm better able to see where I need to let go and where I need to shore up my boundaries.

Some of the places I've been attached are -- if I can get my addict (niece) to quit the drugs, she'll live up to my expectations for her and then I can stop worrying about her. The reality is, I can stop worrying about her now if I can turn her over to her higher power. But that leaves me with only myself to control - and then I'm stuck with the responsibility of making my life mean something. (Which, actually, I think I'm ready to do)

Another thing I've decided to stop doing (as much as I am able) is to stop asking why. Why did my niece start drugs, why can't she stop, why isn't there better options than jail for her, why can't I let go, why, why, why...

I'ts enough to drive a person batty.

Instead I've decided to try to develop a radical acceptance of what is. My niece is addicted, she's psychotic now, she may or may not get better and I still have my purpose in life to fulfill while I try to figure out how to love her in a healthy way for both of us.

I've notice in drug court, the judge who I belive is a very wise person, starts every case with the question "what do we know". That has become a mantra for me as I ask myself - what do I know for sure and what is speculation. Sorting that out helps me stay grounded in what I really know so I make better decisions.

Something that came up that I would invite you to consider - that your reality and your guy's reality might both be true for each of you - or might both be untrue in some way. Both might have elements of projection, fantasy, attachment, filtering, connection to unresolved past issues, etc. I believe most of us don't really see reality, we can only work on seeing it more and more.

So maybe the answer isn't his or yours - maybe its your HP's reality.

I recently read somewhere than under stress, the superior person looks inside themselves for what resistance to God's will is inside themselves . Instead of shuttling back and forth between realities, could you hold his to be true for him and yours to be true for you and see what comes up inside yourself relative to that. Could you accept his reality for him while you hold on to yours?

I am aware that a lot of what I said is a little "out there" but applying some of these ideas has helped me break some of my habitual patterns. If you find something useful, I'm glad - and if not, I pray you receive the answers that will best serve you.

Abundance

Do I have an illness? Is being involved with an addict act as the mother ship/host for my illness? If I look at the symptoms of psychosis:

Delusions (unusual beliefs).
Hallucinations (your senses experience things that aren't really real).
Paranoia (believing that everything is directed at you).
Unusual and disorganised thoughts and behaviour.
Flat emotions.
Bizarre reactions to everyday situations.
Things they say don't always make sense to others.

That is a pretty good description for how my reality is when dealing with my guy when he is taking drugs.

The thing is - is that if I tell him this - I have hope that he will understand just what it does to me - and that he'll stop! But the TRUTH.... is that won't work.... will it? It most likely won't be enough for him to actually make himself better. I don't think he really understands just how hard going it is being on the other side of it. I truly believe that people don't do things to hurt others if they knew what they were doing - which is why I so badly just want him to KNOW. Resulting in him to stop hurting me, because he'll know.

Jesus says:"Father, please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." That is one of the most meaningful things to me in the Bible. As well as - turning the other cheek.

But it doesn't say anything in there about submerging your existence into theirs to understand it - to seek out just WHY they are as they are. YET - I do THAT! If anything - that behavior is more along the lines of temptation.

Abundance

Troubledone..... I'm going to read and re-read this. You understand what I'm saying.... breath of fresh air ... thank you.

THAT is what I want ...... EXACTLY what I want to do. How do I do it? Will the 12 steps help me? I want to just break through back into my turf and my zone.

Troubledone

Abundance

It seems to me that your inner wisdom knows the answer, and it may be very hard to take.

Addicts can't understand - their perceptions are affected by thier disease. Unfortunately, this is also true of us codependents. So it sets up a very stable yet dysfunctional system.

What's the answer?

For me, it is to accept that my addict can't stop doing what she's doing (much of which hurts me), she doesn't know how. But I can accept her disease and learn not to abandon myself.

A very good book on this subject is - Struggle for Intimacy by Janet Woititz.

This was written for adult children of alcoholics, but basically, that means codependent people.

The answers don't come easy or quick, but if you stay on this journey, you will find the answers you need.

Abundance

Thank you troubledone for the book reference. I am acoa.... however they were functioning. My dad was self-employed and my mother acted as his secretary. I remember her answering his work phone in the mornings to clients and agents - (he was still sleeping) ... and she would always nicely say he was at the post office or running errands. Then if I answered for her - I had to do the same. It was a normal thing to do - no concern or guilt or worry - it's just what we'd do!

Now my dad would never sleep later than 10am though - and he would get up and work everyday and did a great job of it! My mom provided the track for him to run on. That is how I view a marriage/relationship. However, I have all of this codie stuff in my head - that I'm probably battling with what is the right behavior for me. I used to be so much like my mom... and in the process of shedding myself - or transition period - I'm spinning so fast.

There is an acoa meeting on Wed. nights - I should make it a priority to go.

Abundance

I wonder if I'd self- diagnose myself as being Obsessive Compulsive... and did my own treatment.... if that would help me... use it as a track for myself.

I really want to be self aware - and most of all "mindful".

This might be a good book as well.



Has anyone here read it?

Abundance

Delusions (unusual beliefs) - What I'm dealing leads to be believing unusually and in a delusional manner - ?denial?

Hallucinations (your senses experience things that aren't really real). When I'm being lied to and not knowing what the truth is - it feels much like this.

Paranoia (believing that everything is directed at you). Taking it personally.

Unusual and disorganised thoughts and behaviour. Feeling LOST - not knowing what to do.

Flat emotions. When I become numb.

Bizarre reactions to everyday situations. Everyday in *my* world.... when it comes to anything that has to do with addict behavior.

fndngserenity

Hi Abundance
Your posts really stood out to me. It was like you were reading the thoughts right out of my head.
Today I had my first ever panic attack. I don't know what happened. I had taken a nap and everything was fine. I woke up and went outside to smoke a cigarette and I started feeling numb and tingly and then spacy. My heart was racing and I had this overwhelming sense of fear. I had to call my Mom and she tried to talk me through it. SCARY!!
My Mom told me to step back for a moment. She told me to stop focusing on him AND to stop trying to fix myself....at least for a few moments. My whole world now is based around this illness and the effects this illness has on my life. I dream about it and think about it non-stop. Today was actually a pretty good day so I don't really know what happened.
I know he is probably starting to go into withdrawals right now. He needs to go into withdrawals before he can get back on the suboxone.
Lastnight his mother and I ended up last minute at an NA meeting. It was wonderful. We were quiet and didn't really talk and then they looked at us and asked if we wanted to say something. After we spoke, they all jumped in and gave us advice. It felt really good. It was sad and it hurt to hear what they had to say but I felt better. It was really inspiring to hear the stories these addicts have gone through and how they got to where they are now.

I don't know how I got here. I do know that I am growing closer to God every minute. Maybe that is the whole point of all of this madness?!? Don't know. I talk to him constantly now.

My mom has been married 4 times and everyone of her husbands except for my dad was/is an alcoholic. I actually lost two of my alcoholic stepdads within the last year. One in October and one in January. It was devastating.
So I did grow up in an Alcoholic home. That was hard. What really gets me is six months ago, I was finally free of all of the past. The pain, shame, guilt, hurt and fear. It was all gone. I was strong and felt such a sense of inner peace. I fell in love with my BF before I fully knew what he was going through and I don't regret for one minute loving him but the only thing I can assume from all of this is that GOD is trying to get my attention. There must be a purpose that lies beneath this......I have to believe this is all happening for a reason, something greater.

I know what you are talking about when you say numb. I have felt numb a lot lately. Empty is another word. I think it must be some automatic coping mechanism because I know I am dying inside but maybe it is my way trying to not deal with the pain.? Don't know.

I have a lot of don't knows. It seems to be my universal answer lately.

Tomorrow we are supposed to be together. He said after I drop my daughter off to just come over, no matter how sick he is. We will see. I am so addicted to him. The therapist told me that I would probably feel physical and mental withdrawal symptoms. I had been feeling those before and I just thought I was losing it but now I understand just how sick I really am. After I was done talking to my Mom, I called him and wouldn't you know. The panic attack was gone. Completely. I got my "fix".

Troubledone,
Thank you so much for the advice. What you wrote speaks so clearly to me and makes much sense. Thank you very much.

Well Abundance........I will talk to you soon, I hope you are having a good evening.

Hugs and Prayers

Abundance

I am feeling better right now. you know why? I too got my fix! We just talked .... I shared how I was feeling. He understands... and it brings to tears to his eyes. Especially because he can relate to *my* addiction being so similar to his addiction.

He admitted some truths where I just *knew* and he was hiding them from me. I don't know who it made feel better more so- me or him - but I can tell you it made me feel better.

We looked up a bup program together online... and he has some numbers to call on Monday.

NOW - he needs a xanax.... I told him that I'll give him one at bedtime.... not earlier.

You see today.... I did something... and I told him about it a few hours later. On the way out to run an errand I decided to just go in the office... I have NO idea what drew me there.... but I just went in there. I lifted up a chords/tab guitar book.... and wiped it.... sure enough..... white powder residual on the outside and a dollar bill inside. (I knew it was from the xanax he took last night - I thought I heard him snorting something before bed - but he denied it.).... and then I look down in a box and I saw foil. The foil was not used - but it IS paraphernalia from smoking the oxy in the past. I told him that I have no idea WHAT makes me find this stuff or how I just know to... but I do. It was then that he told me that it was patron on his breath a few days ago... and that he did snort the xanax last night. He told me I always know. I told him that I don't like knowing... but for some reason I do. And that it is destroying me...... I'm along side him on the dark side. Like I said... why I even went straight for that book or to look in the box..... I do not know. So I went to run my errand... came home and panicked... and wrote on here. (while he was doing work with my brother here at the house). I guess it's good on my part to not have reacted towards him right away and was able to approach him calmly. When I found the powder on the book....... I grabbed a piece of paper and wrote.... "Got snort? STOP!" and then taped it to the book with the dollar bill taped to it as well. When I had gone in the office to talk with him... i showed him it... and we began talking about it.

He asked if he should just go..... and that he was trying. I told him that he shouldn't have come back in the first place then. He agreed. Then we started talking about bup and other alternatives to a solution to this madness. And here we are....

It's a temporary fix. Like Amy says - ENOUGH talking.... it's time for ACTION.

Talking - is MY fix.

Sorry.... that was really long.... but it kind of explains things too.

Going to have dinner now ..... and try to have a relaxing evening.

FS.... your mom says the same things my mom says too...... and I too agree that the universe/God is teaching me something through all of this as well. TO LOOK AT MYSELF! and/or..... to give it all over to HIM!

2 weekends ago - to escape from it all....... what an awesome retreat! Although I look at myself in pictures and I look really bad - lost... which just goes to show how much of this I carry with me even when not in contact with it.

Coming here.... it helps so much.

Peace xoxoxo

fndngserenity

So much........I hear that. I don't even know how I found this place but I believe God led me here.
Talking is my fix too. My bf can't handle me talking though. It just breaks him. That is how he holds me hostage. I won't say my thoughts and fears because I know it would send him over the edge. So they stay locked inside of me, killing me slowly.

Peace to you too

((((((Abundance)))))))

lightseeker

so much pain, so much angst. This world of addiction that we get sucked up into. It has a fatal attraction. I was a spiralling black hole that the only answer for me was to go head first on in. I tried and tried to withstand the allure and just couldn't do it. As a psychiatrist at work told me - it's easier to watch a train wreck than to be in one. I just couldn't resist riding on it though. I was absolutely as addicted to my addict as he was to his drug. It is where my soul had to go though to grow....I hate/abhor that I was not able to learn any other way than to play it all out but that was where my story led me. My husband has been clean now for 3 years so I am fortunate that I am not dealing with active addiction right now. My experiences certainly tell me that the drugs are merely a symptom of the true disease which is a sickness of the spirit (it says that in the big book of AA and I definitely believe that).

Abundance, I believe that reading the books can definitely help (I'll reference the Women, Sex, and Addiction book again.) After all of my reading and studying, I can pretty safely say that I am a Love and Relationship Addict. Read any of that stuff - or look on-line at SLAA stuff...it really helped me a lot. More than anything - working a program with a sponsor was what has helped me the most. Doing it alone and through books never did get me to where I'm needing to be. Hours and hours of sitting in the chairs at meetings and working the steps is what finally felped me.

Hope that you can find some things to grab on to that help you. I understand the balm that "talks" can have - they always have made me feel better. Addicts ONLY stop when they are ready - not because they don't want to hurt someone else. You can talk yourself blue in the face about the pain, your relationship, etc. and that is never going to stop anyone that isn't ready to stop on their own. All that it makes them do is lie to you and soothe over your raw/rough feelings and the anxiety that comes with this all. Better than anyone - I understand playing it to the end. I felt like I didn't have any other choice - not matter what my head told me.

It's no good to join him where he is - it's not worth it. The numbing only lasts for so long and it is certainly not worth losing your kids over.

Hugs -

Abundance

FS... thank you. I have to talk it out - and I do it with him. I can't go very many hours without letting him know when I'm in a state. So I know how you feel not being able to let it out - but let it out, if you need to. I think if it makes you feel better..... you should. It wasn't until we were living together that he got to see just how badly I react to active addiction. It blinking freaks him out. It freaks him out that he can't blinking fool me too. If we split up - there is a good chance he'll wind up walking away from me because he just can't get away with using without a blinking headache from me!

Ya know... here we are into the night. And we are watching the Grateful Dead on video - I love that we both dig the dead, drug - free... and just having a lovely night. His and my anxiety dissipated - he cleaned up the kitchen after dinner.... I had a good bed time routine with the boys... and here we are.

Today was a bi-polar day.

Tonight, as I was tucking in my 8 year old- I asked him about good things that happened today. He told me about how it was nice seeing his cousin perform a break dance at the Capitol steps. But then he also told me a bad thing- that his cousin woke him up by jumping on him. I reminded him that in life... there is good and there is bad. And that he could make the choice himself what way he wanted to feel before bed... or think about to close the day. He said he wanted to think of the good things.... I said that going to bed being grateful... is so wonderful...

Donna.... I got that book about a week ago. It is very good. I've skimmed it and now I'm in the 2nd Chapter. In the later chapters... there was a woman that I could relate with - it was chilling.

I can see that.... sickness of the spirit. It makes me want to be a buddhist monk for a few years.... to meditate for hours upon hours.... have a re-birth. Re-birth... a second chance.
You are right about the meetings...... they get me through so much, as well.
I have not been doing my steps though. When I'm starting to get in a state - I'll think about quickly doing some questions in step 1- but it's just a fleeting thought and I don't.

Donna... is it typical for addicts to talk about recovery and still use? I feel like the addiction is the symptom of something more - and he is talking about the root of the disease. I feel as though that is a good thing. Question is though now - will he follow through and get help in that area? That is what I am holding on to. He tends to think (when he is Mr. Addict guy) that I'm always wanting more.... it's never enough! First it was - going on medication (prozac)... then quitting drugs - going to rehab - and next up - now - see a therapist/addiction specialist. He tells me that I'm saving his life .... asking him to do all of these things. He tells me that he is concerned of the karma he is going to have for all of this .... for example - will his service be in looking after me on my death bed? That is scary - because I've had that premonition. Hopefully my typing it here will jinx it. It's eerie. Just how dark this disease is.

I know it's no good to join him here in this toxicity - the fear of losing my kids. It's not that bad though - not bad enough for that. I will not let it get to that point. I chucked my sister out for telling them I put poison in their brains. That was enough for me. He has not hurt them and they are not hurting by me either. There are times though that I'm in a bad way and they see me unhappy - but they also see me happy. I also don't let their perceptions be skewed with the reality. What they see and what they feel..... add up/line up. They understand that we as adults are still growing and learning and feeling. They feel safe with me - I am their rock. I know that I sound completely crazy on here... but I'm also going into depth. This is like my therapy.

Anyway ... so I have had my "fix".... but I feel much better about things in this moment.

I found a poem in a book called, "Magnificent Addiction", I'm going to make a new thread for it. It's called, "I Am At Peace With My Aloneness"
It is a poem relating to what I am seeking.. requesting.

::: sigh::: .......... something's got to give.

lightseeker

Abundance -

I'm going to try and be gentle as I say this but you yourself said a few weeks ago that you would not allow someone in active addiction around your kids. And your BF is in active addiction. He might not be using his DOC but he is still using DRUGS. One thing I know for sure - if you are tolerating active addiction, you are teaching your kids how to use or live with someone that is using (whether they know the details or not). They might seem fine but they are being patterned...is this really the type of relationship that you want them to be exposed to? You could lose your kids if anyone in your family/community called you out on what is going on in your home. As long as he knows that you will tolerate any sort of using in your home (whether it is adderall, xanax, or whatever) it will continue. Saying that you won't tolerate it iis very different from doing it. He knows that your addiction to him makes it safe to continue what he is doing. It is all about how he is trying, he understands, he wants to get better. Does he go to meetings? Is he working the steps? Does he have a sponsor? Is he in recovery basically? What would happen if you did what they suggest in Naranon - hands off the addict? I allow myself to suggest something one time (when my sober addict husband speaks of something not going well) that maybe a counselor or meetings might help - but then that is it. No more follow up. No more reminders, no more helping to find phone numbers/schedules. I know that everything in you wants to help him and support him. The more that you help him and support him right now the more you hurt him. It is enabling. Allowing an active addict to have a place to live is enabling him. Your agreement was that he wouldn't use and he is using....whether it is prescribed or not. I bet that if the doctor that prescribed all of this knew the full story that he would not have bars of xanax now. If the doctor does know - then shame on this doctor. It is an extremely addictive drug and prescribing it for an addict is a slippery slope.

I know that I can't find the words or anything else to make it different for you. Watching someone that I care about being pulled down into the same rabbit hole that I am in is hard to watch. I can always understand why you remain in your situation (it is addiction at its finest) but I can also be sad when another person joins me down here. There is no doubt in my mind that I was sicker in my addiction than my husband ever was in him. I mean - he never let a drug addict move in with his kids. How sick is that? I did it too so I defiinitely understand. But I also understand what it is/was on my part - addiction. I have told my counselor that I don't have bipolar but my relationship does. I laughed when you made that reference....it's SOOOOOOO true!

Honey - I am always here to support you. Please know that. But I care enough about you to say what I have just said. I promise that I won't say any of this again (the one time rule thing). It's interesting that conversation you two had about the death bed thing.....living through this is extremely stressful. The saying in NA about addiction landing us in institutions, the jail, or the grave if there isn't recovery is as true for this addiction as it is theirs. There are horrible health consequences that come from living with this kind of angst and anxiety.

Hope that you know that I love you and just care. Please please please take what you want and leave the rest.

Hugs - Donna

Callie

Abs - I 100% agree with LS - I've been trying to find the words to say to you and not come across as harsh. I read your posts and I see you spiraling downward with him. There are glimpses of you coming up for air, but it seems that you are allowing yourself to drown with him. I KNOW about minimizing the use because it's not oxy, but he is CLEARLY not in recovery - VERY CLEARLY. From the outside looking in I agree that you should step away from him for your own sanity. I personally think that means getting him out of your house and out of your line of sight every day. I KNOW where you are, the managing, the micromanaging etc. You're going to meetings, reading, doing this, that etc. BUT HE IS NOT DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO FOR HIS RECOVERY.

I hope this helps in some way. Hope it doesn't sound harsh. I know for myself that I NEED harsh at times. You've given it to me at times and it's helped immensely. I hope you understand that this is said with great care.

Impurrfect

(((Abs)))

I've got to agree with lightseeker...but then I said something similar the other day.

As far as he understands you....when I wasn't high, I could totally understand how someone else was feeling...how I was hurting them. It didn't keep me clean. In fact, for me, until I was ready for recovery I used MORE to block those feelings.

I see so much of my history in what you're going through. I also understand that we have to hit bottom, and nothing anyone said made me do anything until I was sick and tired of living like that.

I understand talking being your "fix"....I'm the same way. The only thing is, you and he have had many, many talks...he's still using something and you're on the rollercoaster from he!!.

I know you want him to understand you, and he probably does understand a lot of what you're saying. But you 2 are never going to survive if you don't work your own recoveries and stay the heck out of each other's recovery. You keep finding out he's been lying...that is one of your pet peeves, right? But other than telling him how you feel about it, YOU aren't following through with action any more than he is.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I care about you. You both need to stop talking and start acting. Stop re-hashing the same thing over and over.

If you're not ready to set boundaries and follow through, then you're not ready. Heck, we've all been there. The thing is, YOU have to accept the consequences just like he has to accept his.

Keep posting and working on you. There are a lot of people here who care about you, and if we say things you don't want to hear, it's only because we're trying to spare you some of what we've gone through.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Abundance

Thanks you guys for a good dose of a REALITY check!

Am I fighting MY own recovery or what???????

It feels like a LOSE - LOSE sometimes... ya know?

If I ignore it - in hopes that it just goes away and happens all on it's own or I go in circles thinking about it.

Distraction or going in circles is my mechanism of working it all through. I am now of the age where I see cycles just repeating themselves. I've said so many times - NEVER AGAIN .... or THIS IS IT! And then I'm right back to square one.

My dad taught me growing up that there are "doers" and "talkers".... he would ask me what I was. I WAS a doer... that fear of being a talker scared me into being a "doer".... so WHAT am I NOW?

It's high time I quit analyzing and talking and start DOING!!!!!!!