Callie

Starting a new thread based on the thread Abundance started. Didn't want to hijack yours abs . My AH is in rehab right now (day 6). He's already flirting with the idea of leaving. His counselor called and said what are your boundaries if he does. I immediately said I would have divorce papers here before he got here. I 100% mean that. I don't think AH is seriously thinking of leaving, he's just homesick, dopesick and doesn't like the much needed structure that rehab is providing for him. But he does seem like he's doing ok so far in these early stages. I've been working with his counselors and they for the most part are recovering addicts themselves. Which I never thought could be a good thing, but it's working wonders with AH because he can't fool them because they've been there.

As far as boundaries, what are appropriate boundaries? In Ab's thread we talked about no lies. Of course that would be a GREAT boundary to have, but is that realistic for an addict or a RA? I mean my AH has lied more than he's told the truth. He has been waaay more honest since he's been in rehab than he has in the past. Part of that is because his head is clearing and they strongly encourage honesty there. Is it fair to say if their are lies, if you are caught using even ONCE you're out the door? It's fair to ME, but is it a reality or fair to AH? Are those boundaries going to make him protect his lies (if he does use again) even harder?

Obviously I'm very new to AH's recovery process. In all reality I'm bouncing around between having one foot out the door and being fully out the door. Although AH is doing well thus far, I cannot fathom that he would never ever touch drugs again. I'm finding that it's been around a 10 year addiction to methadone, oxy, valium, basically whatever he could get his hands on. On the way to rehab he called all of his suppliers and asked that they not call him again or take his calls if he tried because he's going to rehab. Apparantly most congratulated him. He also said he's changing his cell number - we'll see if that comes to fruition. I also found out that he could walk 3 doors down from where his mom lives and get drugs. Apparantly it's ALL over our small town - mainly heroin, oxy and meth I guess.

His counselors wanted me to come up this Sunday for classes from 9-5. I would love to go, but am really slammed with work and maintaining everything here. I was going to skip this weekend and go next as I know it will benefit me as well. I just don't want ah thinking I'm going to come running yet again. Any thoughts on this? Lastly, I'm finding out that AH hit the oxy and heavier things very hard before he left. He knew he was going there and wanted a last big hurrah if you will. He didn't hit it hard around me, but when he was at his moms he did. If I had to have guessed???? I would have said he was clean or close to clean. How naieve am I?

Sorry for all of the tangents in this thread - alot going on in my life right now and I didn't want to post everything seperately. Thanks for reading.

Callie

Thanks Ah, that's exactly how I feel. This is a GREAT rehab - with a great reputation in our state. It's tied to a highly acclaimed hospital as well. For me it's not just about getting clean, it's about being a man. Mowing the lawn, caring for your family, going to work, not sleeping all day, quit putting yourself first etc. It's about way more than getting clean. BUT the drugs were tied to most all of those actions too.

At this point I can be an in your face harda$$ with him because I'm just so sick of it. I am very bitter about everything that's happened in the last 6 + months and he knows it. The counselors started asking me about boundaries, and I hadn't really thought of them I guess. I'm stuck between wanting out for my own health and being sucked back in to give him another chance because I see the good person in there when he's clean. But I'm obviously terrified for him out in the real world without the walls of protection from rehab.

I can be as strong as you AH in my boundaries, what worries me is that he'll just hide the truth better this time around. KWIM? The last detox he got out of was 1.5 years ago. He was clean for about 3 months and has lied to me about his use for the most part ever since.

marle

I will not tell you that my daughter will never relapse but I will tell you the things that she did and is still doing for her recovery. She is 22 and a heroin addict. She lost everything and then she became willing to do it the way she was told she would need to to be successful. She spent 10 days in rehab and would have spent more had her insurance paid for it. She then spent 2 months in the rehab's halfway house following all the rules and doing what she needed to do which consisted of daily meetings, doing 15 hours a week volunteering at the rehab hospital and gift shop and not using. Since she has come home she has set up outpatient and has attended meetings daily. She works in her step book and reads and writes on the Just for Today from the NA site. She does not complain about it. She has applied for and gotten a job. Not one she wants but one she needs. She has a temporary sponsor while she looks for a permanent one. And you know what. I still live everyday knowing that relapse is possible. So I am also doing things to help and protect me. I do not want to go back to the chaos of active addiction. My daughter will be the first one to tell you that what made this possible was Suboxone. I don't know if your husband has the chance to get on this drug. But Suboxone and working a strong program has made all the difference for her. Hugs, Marle

Abundance

Callie....... good thread....... I am looking for the same answers.

I believe that we have to just be strong in our own recovery. The day after my guy relapsed ... I was looking at him and asking him what he was intending to do now. Are you going to a meeting? What time? Have you called your sponsor or anyone in the fellowship? He just looked at me... and his response was..... "Are you working my recovery or are you working yours?" OMG>>>>>>>>>> I literally could have hit him over the head with a frying pan.... !!!!!!! I was so frustrated and angry and it was mainly about how I was reacting and the confusion and not knowing what to do... and he just threw what was bugging me the most right back at me! But he was right. I wasn't working mine. So ..... 1 hour later I told him I was going to an al-anon meeting. I AM working MY recovery.

Anyway..... well he is now on this kick apparently... that he is going to do it his way now. He thinks the AA fellowship is a load of crock or something like a cult. It didn't work and it's not going to. Ya know.... I guess I can see his point, because it really doesn't work for some people. But here is the thing..... he WAS just doing it a few days ago.... walking the walk and talking the talk........ and now because he relapsed... that is the problem? DO you know how much feedback I am hearing from the directors from rehab and IOP in my memory bank right now? I want to just spill out to him what they would say to that! And I'm not doing it.... because it isn't going to sound the same from me and also, I don't think I have the energy to do it.... probably because it will start an argument. IDK.

SO..... we went out for dinner and he tells me behind the menu......WTH..... I'm going to order a beer..... I should be able to..... it's not my DOC.. and it's not like I'm at a bar or a party.... this is a family function and why not? I'm with my parents and my brother at dinner.... and how I stayed cool...... I have no idea. But I just looked at him and asked him what his response would be to one of his friends in recovery if they turned to him and said the same thing. I also then told him..... that it was 3 days ago that he just relapsed and NOW is definitely not the right time to be testing out other things that aren't is DOC. So he ordered water. But I know it has nothing to do with what I said.... it was probably just so there wasn't an episode in front of my family. We haven't talked about it..... and I don't know if I even want to! Hows that for having no boundaries yet????? Geeeeeeeeezus.

I think that for sure I'm going to have to figure out a relapse boundary though... and I also want to sit down with him and a counselor ... I don't think I am strong enough to do it w/out one. IDK... I guess I just want to ignore it... at least right now I do. I just want to focus on my joys. But what happens next? Tomorrow I am going to another al-anon meeting. Hopefully I'll gain some insight there.

As for you Callie.... you sound really good. Search through my threads back when my guy was in rehab.... maybe I had some similar questions that were answered that you are having now. It wasn't until about 2 weeks in that my guy surrendered to being there..... and the last 2 days there he was scared to leave. I found and still find it's still a roller coaster.... just a different amusement park.

OH.... and my guy went in as high as a kite on oxy.... he was munching them down during the intervention. By the end of it.... he was nodding out in mid-sentence - there was a point when we all looked at each other in agreement that he DOES have a problem- even though he was telling usthat he had it under control and did not have a problem. Hmmmmmmm... kind of like his attitude now

Now I"m going to read the other replies

Abundance

DITTO

Abundance

After reading the replies..... I have to say........ WE have no power over their addiction OR their recovery. They have to want it.... either way. It's a fork in the road... they can either choose life or death.... because that is the end result. What WE have to do is choose the same for ourselves. And as hard as it is to not feel pain of losing what they can be or what they are when they aren't or weren't using..... the fact of the matter is.... they are who they are - whatever choice they decide. And we have no hand in it.

I loathe this disease..... and I don't like being a codie.... but I am one - and I have to remember those 3 C's like it's my job!

Ann

Great thread, boundaries can be confusing and I know it was hard for me to make boundaries that were about me and not about controlling him and that were fair and ones I was willing to enforce.

As much as I wanted my son to change, to clean up and work a good recovery, in the end it was always his choice and his life and not mine to control. I could only control how much I allowed this to affect me. I had to decide what I was willing to allow in my life and what I was not.

A few boundaries I have made and hang on to today, stay in place for all people in my life...because they are about MY life and under what circumstances I am willing to share it.

I am a blessed child of God, worthy of love and respect. If any conversation becomes heated, angry or overly emotional...it is over, right then and there and I will hang up, walk out for a time, or remove myself from the situation. I will talk all day to anyone who needs or wants to talk, but only as long as respect remains in place...and that includes for me too. If I am upset or angry, the same applies. There is no point in continuing until cooler heads prevail.

I will try not to let myself "react" to other peoples' behaviour. Instead I will take pause and think through what I want to say, do or how I want to respond. This keeps me balanced and able to express myself clearly.

I will not put myself in a position where others can steal from me. My goods or possesions or finances are mine to take care of and should anyone steal from me I shall press charges.

I will not live a life of fear. If I feel threatened in any way, I will first find a safe place and then communicate from there.

I will only bring to any relationship my share of offering and there must be something good coming from the other side if I am to remain. If I am doing all the work, or if the relationship becomes toxic, I will step back and consider ending the relationship.

I will protect my home, my family and myself from any outside influence that upsets the peace of my "safe" place.

These are just a few. Sometimes enforcing them can mean making painful decisions, sometimes simply expressing my boundaries clarifies where I stand and helps others understand what is required if they want a relationship with me. They can choose to respect my boundaries or not...I am not out to change them but I am going to enforce what is right for me.

Setting boundaries, making them clear when necessary, and then being prepared with a well thought out action to enforce them, has made a big difference in my life.

I would rather be alone with me than share my life with anyone who doesn't respect my most basic values and needs.

Hugs

Kathy123

I too am really trying to determine my boundaries. So I truly appreciate your thread. Lately, I have an overwhelming feeling of wanting out. It seems like so much work to stay yet Leaving seems almost impossible now. ugh!
So far, I have come up with no drug/alcohol use and he must be working recovery. I think the no lying should go along with it. But I have the same fear Callie does. Someone told me this week the lying may not stop for a couple years. I guess they have created such a pattern of lying - they lie when the truth would be better.
I feel my AH is just so childish and selfish - the resentment and bitterness have really set in for me. I was compassionate and supportive, what happened? I thought if he were in recovery I would be okay
Resentment and bitterness seem so negative and uncomfortable for me? Does anyone have any input with this?

lyssabee

This:
And this:
stood out for me, because I have a hard time accepting when my husband's intent is not what *I* think it should be. So I'm not sure how much I agree with anvil's post, although saying "I'm going to leave" is definitely not a good sign. I bet there are a lot of addicts who, on their 6th day at rehab, wanted to bounce. But is what they do more important than what they want? I don't know. When they want to be clean but go out and do drugs, the doing is more important than the intent, so I think the flipside should be true.

Same thing with doing things around the house, or as Callie put it, "being a man". Most of us know that it's not only the drugs, and the actual using, but the aftermath. The sleeping all day, poor hygiene, inertia, depression, you get the point. Not only do I want him to cut the lawn, paint the kitchen, take care of things, but I want him to WANT to. When he doesn't want to, or isn't proactive, I get angry, and it is difficult for me to figure out what are acceptable feelings on my part and what aren't.

I also wonder how much of this is the drugs, and how much is just that I married a lazy man? I mean, on his best day he still whines about chores.

OK that being said, my boundaries are pretty simple.

1) No stealing from me - to that end, we have separate checking accounts, I have PIN numbers and passwords that he doesn't & wouldn't know.

2) I try not to let what he does affect my plans. If he goes on a binge and sleeps all day the next day, I do whatever I had planned anyway.

3) Absolutely no trying to help without being asked. If he is having a rough time of things and needs my help/company/a distraction, he needs to ask, and I will gladly oblige. But gone are the days when I hover around, trying to read his mood and facial expressions, being his court jester to keep him in the house. Besides it never worked anyway, and then I just felt the fool for trying.

Things are better in my house - not great, and I'm sure my "better" is someone's else's nightmare. But if he ever goes back to the worst of his days, I will move out. That boundary is less defined, but when it gets here, I'll know.

Good post Callie. It always helps me to redefine my boundaries, or to think about them again and make sure they're still in my mind.

Abundance

Kathy...... I am running out to an al-anon meeting...... It amazes me how much he *does* and *doesn't do* makes such an impact on me. It ticks me off that I fear having that resentment and bitterness instead of being compassionate and loving/supportive ...... it too is uncomfortable for me ..... VERY MUCH.

Callie

This is HUGE for me. I was just talking with AH today. I've become the man AND the woman in this house. I "CAN" do it all, but the bitterness that I feel is IMMENSE. I did not marry AH to have a 3rd child. I should not have to request or demand that the lawn needs mowed, the softner needs salt, the propane tank needs filled etc. The resentment ALONE that I feel is HUGE. For me, instead of being a crying pile of a mess in the middle of my kitchen floor because of the way that he's treated me, I choose to stand and be firm. (aka a bitch full of resentment). Crying does me no good, so I guess it makes "ME" feel better to take the "stronger" stance. Even though it's not. AH is going to do whatever it is that he wants to do whether I'm a crying blob or a raving lunatic.

AH was talking with counselors @ rehab about me today. He said "well, you CHOSE to take control". I was immediately furious because I DID CHOOSE to take control, but it's not because I wanted too, it's because I HAD too. This house of cards would have folded long ago if I didn't. At that time I believed in him, hoped in him and thought he'd see the light eventually. I am a total codie and I realize it now, but I did cover up his crap because I wanted everyone (mainly my family) to love him as much as I did.

I feel like before rehab that I'd talked with a lawyer, I had the spreadsheet of assets/debts ect. I was on my way out - ready to close the door, but now I'm dealing with this apologetic, rationalizing person who KNOWS he's done wrong. You can almost hear the wind sucking me back in. My head is saying go for your own health. The chance of relapse is too great etc. My heart is saying "well he really seems to get it this time."

hello-kitty

My boundaries and the consequences for violating them:

I will not allow people to be disrespectful to me in my own home. You will be asked and expected to leave.

If you disappear and you do not call, do not come back. I will change the locks immediately.

Drugs and drug paraphenalia are not allowed in my home or around my child.

My house is not a flop house. People who live here must be working and contributing. Or they must be actively looking for work. You must support yourself.

People at my house do not get to lie around all day and watch tv. If they are not working, they will be helping me with household chores and projects and earning their keep.

No unsavory characters at my house. I will not allow drug users or suspected drug users in my house. If I suspect that drugs are being used, I will call the police to escort you out.

If I feel threatened or violated and I ask you to leave and you do not, I will call the police.

I reserve the right to adjust my boundaries as necessary.

HopeandPrayer

Ann

Thank you so much for this. I have printed it off and posted it on the wall above my computer so I can remind myself what is acceptable for me and what isn't.
I am facing a family weekend Labor Day that I am not looking forward to. It will be the first time I will be with my sister since a big blow up over my RAS last Thanksgiving. She is older and thinks she is wiser, but I know different. I have a hard time distancing myself from her psychosis when she is around and I am hoping this will help me remember where my boundaries are. I don't want to fall into the trap I fall into every time she is around.

Thank you again, this site is a godsend, and I REALLY appreciate everyone that is here.

:ghug3
Barb