mikeb

Ok, I want some HONEST opinions on this situation and if I am just overacting....

My AW has for at least a month or so now told me that she isn't in love with me, that she is completely disconnected from me she dosent say I love you dosent like me to touch her or anything. It took me awhile but I finally just started detaching from her the best I can.

Now the quirky part of all this is that shes still pleasant meaning shes not yelling and screaming or fighting. The problem with this situation is that I just simply feel I am being used for a place for her to stay and live with our kids. She still goes to marriage counseling but has made it clear its just to keep things at peace with regards to whatever happens.

So this SAT she asked me to watch the kids and take them to a birthday party which I was fine in doing, she showed up about half way because she had to take a break from working her fourth step. I asked her if after she was done if we could all go out to dinner as a family. Her response was she didn't really see a point in doing any family stuff with the way things are, and that she just figured we would live our separate lives in the house and she could do what she wanted to do.

That stung a bit but basically I just said look I don't know what you want to do with things, but there's a point of breaking for anyone when you just walk all over me and use me for money and a place to stay I said we are still married and I am your husband.

So later that evening, she calls as shes leaving her sponsor and said hey I am going to come get the kids and take them over to a friends of her's to play for a bit and I was thinking we could go ahead and go do the dinner thing I said to her great and that sounds good....

Fast fwd 11pm that night she shows up, I had called her at around 9 and was like where are you she said she was out running around doing stuff I asked her about the dinner and she said well why didn't you call and ask earlier we already ate....

Now let me tell you, at this point I referred back to what ive been working on and just said you know that's very disappointing because she could tell I was upset. She has done this 100's of times before in situations, but since we had been back together she had been a bit more respectful in these situations.

So when she gets home, I ask her I was like why would you do something like that, why would you just disregard the fact knowing I would be sitting here waiting for you guys and had told the kids we where going to go eat. She responded with well that's just about as much respect as I have for you, and I told you we would so you wouldn't bug me about going over to my friends house with the kids.....I just responded with that's not the way you treat someone esp your husband and just got up and went to bed.

The next day I'm out with the kids, she was finishing up her step work, she calls and ask where we where I said me and the kids where out going to eat and go play for a bit. She had the nerve to say well Ill come meet you guys and we can all go do something, i about fell out of my seat. I said are you serious, after all the ranting and raving yesterday and what you did now because its what you want you want to come meet us. She was like well i figured since you guys where out we could all go do something.

I nicely responded with NO, and said that me and the kids where going to spend the day together and that you cant keep walking all over people and treating them like you did and expect them to just stand by for it. She didn't get mad, she asked again and I just said of course I would really like you to come meet up with us but you cant just keep walking all over me expect me to just allow it, said no, and went on with my day.

I know this is long but im trying to figure out A) Was I wrong in doing that, and secondly I know some of the reason I got upset on Sat night was because it reminded me of her old addict behavior and I guess that's where the term Dry Drunk comes in because even in recovery dosent mean the personalities change with it...

mikeb

That is exactly How i looked at it, and this is not new behavior at all its been like this for many many years......In the past Ive always looked at it as this is my wife and my family so I have put up with it as much as I can....I even made the comment to her that you probably don't have much respect for me because I have always stood down to try to keep my family in peace....

The difference now with me is that instead of getting angry and yelling I just tell her how I feel and remove her from the situation....

The interesting thing, esp since being in alanon, is that Ive realize this is not about me, this is how she is, this is how she is with her friends drops them when they are not needed and comes back when they are so im learning to disconnect myself emotionally to look at it from a clearer head..

rahsue

I'm with anvil, she is showing no respect at all. If she is not in love with you then it may be time for you to move on and one day find someone who does love and respect you. Do you know how many woman would love for their husbands to tell them how they feel? thats a godsend. Do you like have "just a room mate"? One that doesn't pay rent. Just my opinion of course but what is YOUR life like.

best to you and the kids

StillLearning1

Oh boy Mike-
I can relate to those feelings. All this right or wrong stuff..
Frankly, as I've gotten older, what I've seen from marriages- there are some that are what looks like, "arrangements" to me. Two people living seperate lives. This used to confuse the heck out of me. I didn't understand how they could live like that.

There is this quote I love, (not exact- sorry)
Be charitable to all, but have friendships with only those who share you're virtues."
Francis de Sales.. Keep in mind a 17th century quote- virtues I've been told does not mean morals or anything- basically it is simply the same likes and dislikes- what a person values- what makes them happy..

No one has to change, their base personality.
I think that is why- some marriages work just fine with infidelity- for some it is not a big deal- so of course it isn't hurtful- For others- it is hell!

In my opinion, it is about sharing mutual expectations.. expecting the same from ourselves for others as we expect from them for us.
So is there a REAL right or wrong?? For marriages or spouses?? I don't think so- just right or wrong for individuals.

Sounds to me like you and your wife have different expectations of a spouse. Not just that- family- what families do.
Sounds like she is perfectly content- with your paycheck, and doing her own thing.
Wouldn't try to change her- Is there really any real desire on your part to change yourself either? Life doesn't have to be that hard, for either of you!!
Acceptance is the key. She is happy, you are not.

Oh I can assure you- I highly doubt you will have much of a problem finding a woman who would think she was VERY fortunate to have a husband who wanted to spend time with her- wanted to go out with the family, together!! Burden?? Oh dear, she will think she is the darn luckiest person in the world!!

No doubt your wife can also find some guy- like herself.. who likes to spend more time out with HIS friends!! She'll be fine for the "family" days- holidays, when they are all busy...

I don't know how old your kids are.. but I believe this. What they grow-up in, is their role-model for normal.. Do you want your kids to believe this is what healthy, happy families are like? What they do??
Personally- NOT ME!! I go for that love thing!!! That really like and enjoy each other! I am divorced- could not change the ex.. who or what he is- likes, values, feels good..

Not a rolemodel- good one for my son's. As spouses or parents. No, I want more for them.. At the very least. They have 2 different, distinct rolemodels to choose from, no confusion there!! I hope that my children have love in those marriages, not convienience!! I hope that is what feels *right* to them!!

Just my opinion!! People change from the day they made those promises.. situations change.. Ask yourself if your thoughts of what marriage and family would be, the day you married, when you decided to have those kids.. To thy own self be true!!!

lil516

anvil's response was right on target...."would you accept this behavior from a friend or sibling?"
and then I thought about it one step further..."would you accept this disrespectful behavior from a child/addict"?

if you read many of the posts directed at parents trying to cope with boundaries regarding addicted adult children you will find good advice....

your wife is not acting like a spouse but rather a roommate who is getting free babysitting services along with room and board

read through the posts from parents telling how they finally found their boundaries and stuck to them....

I admire the commitment you have toward your family but from my side it seems like only the children are deserving of your efforts

Chino

If what you did was for yourself, your boundaries, it was the right thing to do. If it was to punish or manipulate her it was wrong.

Trust yourself Mike, you know what you want and need to be happy

mikeb

You know I will quote my internal monologue in saying that I often thought to myself that this would be a perfect marriage for anyone but me I always hear about the guys that just run all over there wifes, put them last, friends above the family and I look at my wife and its like she wants that out of me......

In the 13 yrs I have been with her, 8 of those married I can probably count on two hands the amount of times I wanted to do something without either the kids or her....

WHY??

Because I enjoy my family, I have friends and we may get to go to lunch, or even an occasional dinner but I love my kids and my family....Ive learned over this past year the difference in love an obsession with the addict though....

Cut from a diff cloth is an understatement I feel, and Ive even tried "adapting" to ways that I know are wrong just to keep things afloat it just dosen't work....Yes I want to talk, yes I want to spend time with my family and my wife....Its often been said in our marriage that the roles are reversed in that she is more the husband where I am the one who cooks, takes care of the kids, puts them to bed etc etc but still play the role of breadwinner and so on....

The problem is that I think over the years Ive become so obsessed with keeping my family together Ive ignored the fact that Im doing more damage than good, to myself and to the kids....

So thanks for your comments...

mikeb

I thought REALLLLLY hard before I said no to her, I tried really hard to make sure I wasn't being retaliatory and I still cannot answer this 100%....

What I do know was that I made the decision because I cannot allow someone to keep doing the same thing over and over to me and using me and then wanting me when they need something....I wasn't trying to punish her, I was simply stating I cant keep sane myself and be strong if I say yes you can beat me over the head 100000 times and Ill still sit here and take it...

CrushedbyCrack

Only you can know if you love this woman. If you value marriage the way God meant it to be, then you made the vows "for better or for worse". So this is the worse.

In church the last few Sundays, our message has been on "How to Fireproof Your Marriage". This doesn't mean there will never be any fires, just that when there are some, you will make it through. This message series is based on a movie that will be coming out in September, which I believe has the same title, or similar and stars Kirk Cameron (from Growing Pains). Anyway, before this sermon series, I (somewhat like you) was wondering why I put up with it all, he walks all over me, I bring home most of the money, etc. etc., I can do the same or better without him, and I was really asking myself if this is what God meant for me to have to put up with in a marriage. I was trying to justify that getting divorced would be ok, because surely God didn't mean that I was to put up with this as "worse".

But now, I'm starting to look at things differently. Is what my husband does hurting me, or am I allowing it to? Anyway, not really sure what I'm getting at here, because I'm really struggling with it too, but just ask yourself this, the marriage counseling, the marriage, the family, is your heart really in it?

If your answer to that question is yes, and you truly know you are doing all you can do, then there is nothing else you can do. If she truly doesn't love you and doesn't want to be married to you anymore, then things will fall into place, and she will make the step to move out of your life. Because, look at it this way...if you were divorced, she would still have your paycheck (alimony and child support), and still have you as a free babysitter (visitation every other weekend, every Wednesday, and a few weeks in the summer). They say the grass is always greener on the other side (when you are looking from within the situation).

Remember, true love is not 50/50, it's 100%. You don't fall out of love, but you may not have ever been in love. Both of you are still the same people you were the day you got married. Things you do, mannerisms, behaviors, etc. may change, but the person never does. Think about all the reasons you fell in love with her...has that changed?

If you are a religious person and believe in Jesus, think about the cross. Think about God's love, think about Jesus. Over and over, people mocked him, spat in his face, denied him, etc. But he still loved them enough to give his only Son. Now that is true love, and that is the type of love God expects for us to put into our marriage. 100%.

She mocks you, she denies you, she uses you...do you love her? Are you willing to give 100%? Only you know the answer.

One of the things from the movie that is suggested for the husband to try before considering divorce, is to do something nice, or say something nice, something out of the ordinary, every day for 40 days, and avoid all negative comments or actions. BUT your heart must be in it. If things have not changed after that....well then.... what else can you do? Remember 100%.

mikeb

Passive aggressive is her nature, but its more of a disregard for anyone's feelings but herself and almost an underlying hatred towards me...

While I agree recovery takes time, this isn't knew behavior and isn't the only time she has been in recovery this is what I'm beginning to accept or see may be the person I really married or the person she is towards me which I cannot change....

Setting boundaries for myself, living my life for what I know is right for the kids is what im trying to do everyday...

The interesting thing about all this, I'm not angry, im not even upset Im just looking at this person in my life that's my wife doing this.....

I'm not making any moves or decisions now, my head is not near clear enough to determine anything other than what I need to do to keep my dignity along with sanity....

CrushedbyCrack

In regards to the movie/sermon series I mentioned in my previous reply, there are actually a couple of websites about it...

Welcome To FireProofMyMarriage.com
Welcome To FireproofTheMovie.com - Coming September 26, 2008

(((HUGS))))

sailorjohn

You said it all, brother. She's acting like an active addict, you need to love and take care of yourself and your kids. Let her find her own way. When you falter, don't be too hard on yourself, you're trying to unlearn years of behavior on your part.

Chino

He doesn't ask us to die for others though, and that kind of love demanded a sacrifice. Stick around in a marriage fraught with animosity/abuse and that's where it's headed. Whether a gunshot, a stabbing, a car gone out of control, or high blood pressure that finally stills a beating heart, it isn't necessary nor required. That debt was settled a long time ago.

mikeb

For better or worse, agreed and I stick by as best as I can to my values as a christian....however when you are married to someone who is not a christian and does not have that foundation its hard to see eye-to-eye......

I am to die for my wife as my wife is to submit to her husband.....most women hate that line but in essence without the support of a wife a husband is nothing, he cannot continue to carry on his family and marriage himself...

Yet not believers be yoked by non-believers, sure as a christian I am to be as nonjudgmental as possible towards people and love them as god would. I do my best to do this daily also and do what I can, im not perfect, im not god and I try everyday to put my family above my own means.

Now the rationalization of well im going to be a babysitter anyways, and have to pay anyways so just stick it out....Ive used that rationalization for many many many years now.....It does not work....

Abundance

Anvil...... I think I love you Why are you a woman and not a dude? hahahahaha! j/k

It's so true what you are saying.

Mike...... you are on the right path... I can feel it. Stick with it.

mikeb

The reasons I loved her then, and the reasons I love her now are different but the reality of it is I do love her.....but do not like who she is...just as she I dont truly believe has ever given herself to me or the marriage.....yes we where young, my ways have grown towards more of a family centric focused on bettering the family where hers have grown into more of what she probably truly is.....

The ironic thing about this is, that even after she left me last time and a 7 month seperation she came back to me, open arms and happy and telling me how sorry she was, how she realized things where not that bad etc etc....3 months later same as she was before we separated....and told me she did it because she just wanted some normalcy in her life..

Still I stand by her side, supporting her as best as I can, not wanting to give up and back down because I can just move on to someone else....

Here is where my work has paid off, in sitting there really analyzing my life and my behavior it clicked that ive been doing this since ive met her....always chasing after her, always seeing that glimmer of hope that comes out instead of noticing the reality of the way things really are.. I even told her one day I said do you realize that since ive known you I have always been doing this, and you have been running.....

The thing is that now, to me, its turning vindictive what happened this past weekend IMO was worse than any of the destruction that active addiction has caused it was her plainly admitting to me that I am going to use you as long as you let me, and its because I don't respect you it almost explained in that one sentence how ive felt for a very long time...but you know what That view she has of me, because I know im not perfect and I have made mistakes but ive worked 150% to make ammends in any area she needed to make her feel comfortable without reciprocation, is hers and is not because of who I am....

I SO dont mean to go on a rant about things, I feel like im badgering her to death when im not trying tooo....

HopeandPrayer

I know where you are coming from.

The thing to think about is: What happens if you quit chasing her? What happens if you quit supporting her?

I believe the reason she came back is due to the fact she wanted someone to do for her what you do. She knows that you have a strong belief in marriage and family, she knows that no matter what she does, you will be there to pick her up, she knows that you are going to put up with whatever she does because you want to keep the family together.

So what will happen if all those things are removed from the equation?

That is a big question, in my experience when I removed all those things my ex-AH knew about me and my habits, he didn't want to be married any longer. By that time I was ready to let go also for the sake of my kids. I realized that the example that I was setting for them was that no matter what someone did to me I was going to let it happen just so I could stay married and not feel like a failure at my marriage. Once I got past that part and realized that was the only reason I was still there, I was able to move on. Don't get me wrong it wasn't easy since my kids were 2 and 5, but I knew it was healthier for me and them in the long run and still proves to be true 20 yrs later, since he is still the same person he was then.

This is my experience, maybe if you remove all those support pieces for your wife it wil turn out different for you, but at least you will know if that is why she came back to begin with.

You and your kids deserve better, I really hope it all works out for you.
I will be praying for you and yours,
Barb

Abundance

I agree.

Also, when I share in al-anon meetings... I feel and think right before .. "how can i do this without sounding totally weak and full of humility." And there is no cross talk there, so I go because I hope that what I hear.... from other people sharing is what the Universe is telling me. Likewise when I share ... I must be doing the same, because people will come up and thank me. I just say thank you..... but I have no idea why they are thanking me.

My guy told me last night it was because in my story ... somehow - someway it helped them. Some have thanked me for sharing *their* story.

So.... it's really so good you are sharing. Also, I think that when we say how we are feeling - we are able to re-teach ourselves. IDK.. it's like our internal dialogue can make us crazy... but getting it out..... it is healing.

You are doing great.....

mikeb

When she filled for divorce, I did that at best as I could except at the time her dad was providing all that support financially....I separated as best as I could and grew pretty strong.....she spiraled into a rehab, but I didn't fully severe ties with her because of the kids and admittedly I still let her control who I was because I wasn't ready to let her go, so even during divorce when she called and said I needed to get the kids whenever she wanted me to I did cause I didn't want my kids dragged around to a bar, or out all night....


Eventually she bottomed out and came to me and asked me to take the kids, this , that one act of kindness I see showed me that she does have some respect for me and knew she could trust our kids with me without a doubt...even if they where already there 3-4 days a week.....

I dont blame myself for how things are, I blame myself for not seeing them earlier and working on correcting my reactive behavior and start being proactive.....Im not perfect, I have yelled, screamed, tried to manipulate her, tried to protect her, fix her everything someone in an addict relationship does...

The one thing Ive never regretted doing is loving her and my family, and trying my best that even through meeting adversity at its biggest turn to her and say I still love you....but this is where obsession meets the road and I am stepping back now setting my own boundaries.. because Ive realized that the anger, hatred, guilt or whatever it is she holds against me is something deep rooted in her I cannot change nor am I responsible for...