what's normal for us once they are sober?
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
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what's normal for us once they are sober?
Just wondering. At the moment I am pondering this afternoon spent with my xabf (now friend) who is sober. And I have been noticing just how pathetically over helpful and over apologetic I still am. I've never known him sober and I guess part of me is afraid that he never really knew me, so therefore will he grow irritated by me sober?
well...
I know the answer already is that I do need help and to address my low confidence and body image issues etc.. I guess I am just kinda wondering if others have gone through this and what was the adjustment like. If any of you went on to build relationships with the former A in their life. Or if you went on to build relationships with others without the pattern of co-dependency following you?
well...
I know the answer already is that I do need help and to address my low confidence and body image issues etc.. I guess I am just kinda wondering if others have gone through this and what was the adjustment like. If any of you went on to build relationships with the former A in their life. Or if you went on to build relationships with others without the pattern of co-dependency following you?
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Location: Arlington, VA
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I haven't rebuilt a relationship with my AH and don't want to. But I can say I sure as heck don't want to build a relationship with anyone based on unhealthy responses and behaviors. That is not the road to a healthier me.
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By adjustment, I meant to seek out people who've adjusted to having to let go of tending to an alcoholic (addict, etc), letting go of the bad behaviors.
I certainly don't want to carry co-dependency into any new relationship or into a new beginning of a friendship with my xabf.
I'm guessing I need lots of work to change my bad behaviors but was wondering if anyone else can give me their experience. Some words of encouragement to know that it's possible to change.
I certainly don't want to carry co-dependency into any new relationship or into a new beginning of a friendship with my xabf.
I'm guessing I need lots of work to change my bad behaviors but was wondering if anyone else can give me their experience. Some words of encouragement to know that it's possible to change.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
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Well I have changed. A whole lot! I no longer engage in all sorts of codependent behaviors in any of my relationships. I think the biggest change has been in my relationships with my 2 sons, 19 and 23. I have learned to stop wanting to run their lives in any way. I give my advice if asked and let them make their decisions, even those I strongly think are not the "right" ones. I no longer drive myself crazy wanting to save people from themselves. I have learned jsut how wide spread my codependent behaviors were and have done a great job of whittling away at them.
It took some very careful and thought self examination and brutal self honesty to find the palces where I needed to make changes in me. I'm not done by a long shot. Heck I have 53 years of codependent behaviors! Its taken me the 9 months since I left my AH to reach where I am now but its light years rom where I used to be.
So yes indeed, we can unlearn the behaviors that hold us back and learn new behaviors that lead naturally to a healthier, happier life.
It took some very careful and thought self examination and brutal self honesty to find the palces where I needed to make changes in me. I'm not done by a long shot. Heck I have 53 years of codependent behaviors! Its taken me the 9 months since I left my AH to reach where I am now but its light years rom where I used to be.
So yes indeed, we can unlearn the behaviors that hold us back and learn new behaviors that lead naturally to a healthier, happier life.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 369
I'm beginning this journey too and working with my therapist to "fix my picker". That is to stop doing the things I've done in the past so that I find someone who is "complete" and not a "fixer upper".
I think you can break free of your codependency but it takes time and really looking at YOU instead of focusing on the A in your life or any other person for that matter. You're headed in the right direction by seeing the things YOU are doing (apologizing or helping, etc.)
I think you can break free of your codependency but it takes time and really looking at YOU instead of focusing on the A in your life or any other person for that matter. You're headed in the right direction by seeing the things YOU are doing (apologizing or helping, etc.)
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 196
I am just thankful to God. And if I have any anxiety about my recovering alcoholic husband, I pray to God. We have had to build our relationship on a more healthy level (without alcohol and not focusing on fixing each other). It is not always perfect though. But I would definitely say that there is less anxiety now that my husband now that my husband is active in AA and on soberrecovery.com.
We talk at night on the phone and visit each other almost every weekend. I do not have cable at my apartment in Seattle, so my husband recorded "So You Think You Can Dance" episodes, and I get to watch it when I visit him at his parents.
Last weekend, we went to the park and just walked around. Today, we went shopping for a gift for his grandma. We were in the car, and I thought he said "No more beer at Bradley" and I was like what the heck-
-he was actually saying no more Vera Bradley (at a store). . . He knows I really like Vera Bradley. So it was an odd moment--but it is nice when that we still could have a good day even if there is one odd moment--it shows maturity in both of us.
I really love having people in my life that know who to love--I really like hugs from my husband, and I like just having time alone with him to talk.
I really like my inlaws--they stock up on Vanilla yogurt, lemonade, fat free hot dogs, and Sara Lee Hot Dog buns -they know those are my favorite. My inlaws made dinner tonight for his grandma and served fresh strawberry shortcake. I really love that about his family --how they are really there for other people and make each person in the family feel special.
We talk at night on the phone and visit each other almost every weekend. I do not have cable at my apartment in Seattle, so my husband recorded "So You Think You Can Dance" episodes, and I get to watch it when I visit him at his parents.
Last weekend, we went to the park and just walked around. Today, we went shopping for a gift for his grandma. We were in the car, and I thought he said "No more beer at Bradley" and I was like what the heck-
-he was actually saying no more Vera Bradley (at a store). . . He knows I really like Vera Bradley. So it was an odd moment--but it is nice when that we still could have a good day even if there is one odd moment--it shows maturity in both of us.
I really love having people in my life that know who to love--I really like hugs from my husband, and I like just having time alone with him to talk.
I really like my inlaws--they stock up on Vanilla yogurt, lemonade, fat free hot dogs, and Sara Lee Hot Dog buns -they know those are my favorite. My inlaws made dinner tonight for his grandma and served fresh strawberry shortcake. I really love that about his family --how they are really there for other people and make each person in the family feel special.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
Don't get me wrong I am so inspired by the sobriety that he's chosen, and I see him engaging is healthy activities and with healthy people. Part of me mourns this sick need he once had to mostly only want to be with me, but logically I know this is the best thing to ever happen to him.
I think I'm disappointed in myself that I haven't changed at all yet. The only times I feel in control of my emotions is when I'm alone. When I am alone thinking or not thinking
, or reading or on SR, I feel pretty clear on what I need to not do. When I am around people I seem to fall apart. Mostly when I am around men whom I want to impress. I become this pathetic over-achiever. I guess it's all about control. I don't know how to stop myself from mothering men! I'm guessing I'm not so unique and I hope this therapist can help me.
I think I'm disappointed in myself that I haven't changed at all yet. The only times I feel in control of my emotions is when I'm alone. When I am alone thinking or not thinking
, or reading or on SR, I feel pretty clear on what I need to not do. When I am around people I seem to fall apart. Mostly when I am around men whom I want to impress. I become this pathetic over-achiever. I guess it's all about control. I don't know how to stop myself from mothering men! I'm guessing I'm not so unique and I hope this therapist can help me.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 225
Hey Sketscher,
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 225
I should add (because that wasn't nearly long enough) that I lapse back into codependent thinking sometimes, and I have found giving myself a "time out" and going to meditate for @ ten minutes has helped a lot. I have trouble with impatience and a lack of perspective, and meditation has helped me to step back and realize that things are just how they are, and rarely require my immeditate obsessive attention.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: folsom ca
Posts: 5
I have wondered that same thing many times...
It is uncharted waters. Trying to get to know someone all over again. Hoping you love them and they love you with a clear mind. My ah has only been sober going on two weeks now and it is much too soon to tell, but I hope so...
It is uncharted waters. Trying to get to know someone all over again. Hoping you love them and they love you with a clear mind. My ah has only been sober going on two weeks now and it is much too soon to tell, but I hope so...
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by good_luck 
Hey Sketscher,
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 208
Al-anon works for me.
I get to pursue recovery in all the ways you asked about. It's a lot of work but its worth it.
What else have I got to do anyway? Run YOUR life? Judge you? Fear you? Please you? Need you? Control? Manage? Direct? Dominate? Accomplish? Earn? Succeed? Believe I am my own Higher Power? Believe I am yours?
Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I used to do before I started working my steps.
I get to pursue recovery in all the ways you asked about. It's a lot of work but its worth it.
What else have I got to do anyway? Run YOUR life? Judge you? Fear you? Please you? Need you? Control? Manage? Direct? Dominate? Accomplish? Earn? Succeed? Believe I am my own Higher Power? Believe I am yours?
Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I used to do before I started working my steps.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
I really appreciate all the replies.
In the midst of his sobriety I can really see that I have not changed one bit and it's hard to know where to begin to even try to change.
The reasons I want to keep a friendship with him are numerous. One reason I don't want to say goodbye to him is that I if I do that I KNOW I'll just go on and display this same behavior with another guy as I have done so often before. He's saving himself right now and he knows that I'm taking steps towards my own recovery. I suppose if he's worth having as a friend he'll be patient with me and give me time to become a healthy friend in return. But right now I'm second guessing all my words and actions around him. I'm so utterly without confidence it's scary. I don't know how I got this way. But I'm comforted to know others are like me and that recovery is possible.
In the midst of his sobriety I can really see that I have not changed one bit and it's hard to know where to begin to even try to change.
The reasons I want to keep a friendship with him are numerous. One reason I don't want to say goodbye to him is that I if I do that I KNOW I'll just go on and display this same behavior with another guy as I have done so often before. He's saving himself right now and he knows that I'm taking steps towards my own recovery. I suppose if he's worth having as a friend he'll be patient with me and give me time to become a healthy friend in return. But right now I'm second guessing all my words and actions around him. I'm so utterly without confidence it's scary. I don't know how I got this way. But I'm comforted to know others are like me and that recovery is possible.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Change is scary. Change is hard. You may be changing more than you actually realize.
That which is uncomfortable now becomes more comfortable (and easier) with time and practice. Concentrating on you instead of him will be healthier for both of you.
gentle hugs
That which is uncomfortable now becomes more comfortable (and easier) with time and practice. Concentrating on you instead of him will be healthier for both of you.
gentle hugs
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by good_luck
Hey Sketscher,
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
I am friends with my axbf. I've gone back and forth a lot about whether contact with him is a good idea. Mostly because initially I found myself acting exactly the same way as I always did, and because he is quitting and starting again, found myself getting all twisted up inside. It was like the relationship without the sex, which sucks.
However, as time went on I was able to see that I had more control than I thought. It was really just fear that was keeping me acting in the same old ways. I was afraid that if I wasn't the helpful, easygoing caretaker there wouldn't be a place for me in his life.
I had to stop being worried about these insecurities, and see what would happen if I started to behave in a more healthy manner. And, seriously, now I am happy with our friendship. And more importantly, I am really proud of how I have been behaving recently.
The thing is, it was really very scary to make these changes. It made me anxious. When he called me up all drunk and self-loathing it was really hard to say "I am not going to talk to you when you are drunk. I'm not angry, but don't call me when you are like this, I can't help you." I did it, and I hung up the phone, but I felt really bad and nervous and guilty, and pretty sure he would never call me again. That I had wrecked everything. That I was a terrible friend.
But that didn't happen at all. And honestly, if it had, I was at the point that I was willing to let go of the relationship if it was going to continue to hurt me.
I hope this is helpful. I know it is a little long winded. Sorry. I guess the basic point is that I think that it is definitely possible to change dynamics in a relationship, if you think that it is worth it. You just have to spend some time thinking about yourself, and the real reasons you are doing what you are doing. It's kind of hard to look at what the rewards are, especially, but don't worry -- you don't need to tell anyone how secretly insane you are. I just wrote them down in my journal.
Then do the scary work of changing your behavior. I don't know what that is in your case. I think that I started pretty small, took note that the sky didn't fall in, thought about other stupid things that I did, worked on those, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, that's my 46 cents. And I know that people are super-against being friends with their ex nowadays, but I'm happy with how things are. This is the least stressed out I have been since I met my jacka**, and I find that since one of us has stopped acting like a blooming maniac, we are actually enhancing each others lives, instead of just making them horrifically entertaining gossip fodder.
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