Cathy31

Oh! My sponsor (who is predom NA and sharing at his birthday celebration at an NA meeting) said even though the question is academic he would not use (alcohol or drugs) even if he 'could' for one day 'without' consequences...so if he got license to get high/drunk with no consequence he would not do it - first year of recovery he would have. In fact he said (he's going through very tough time now, sister mystery illness, could be dying, etc) the thought of using repulses him.

Then a nuymber of 'old timers' (as old timer as you get LOL as it was a beginners primarily meeting...about 4 and years respectively these 2 particular people) said they would definitely use no questions asked!

If there were no consequences, they would grab the chance to use, cause they only gave up because of hte consequences! A lot of ppl nodded...

I did not relate to that. Using alcohol or any substance to numb myself or unnaturally increase highs or decrease lows has no appeal for me any longer. LIke my sponsor it actually repulses me. I have a daily reprieve (from my HP and through His Grace) from the desire to drink or drug contingent upon my spiritual condition :praying and its maintenance...I have no desire to use (consequences or not) and it has been like this for some time now.

Any thoughts/observations? I thought it was fascinating. And it made me think again there but for the grace of God go I...interested in any thoughts?

2ala2

See Cathy, for me it's all about today. Do I want to use today without consequences? My answer is: No, I don't want to today. Might I want to use another day without consequences? I don't know. That day has not come yet and may never come. If the day does come then I might and I might not.

Sugah

For me, quitting started out as avoidance of any more consequences. It didn't stay that way long, though. I think my first real taste of conscious contact with a power greater than myself got rid of the last desire to get high. Anything less than juice from the Great Spirit is not a high worth settling for - even for one day.

Perhaps if those older folks in the room spent more time on the 11th step, they'd feel the same way.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Artur

If I was dying and I could use without and consequences, would I use today? Wow, that's heavy! Right now at this minute, I'd have to say NO. There was a time when I loved to get high, and right NOW is a time that I love being clean/sober...I still think about it sometimes, but then as you said, it rather repulses me. It's weird though, because you could ask me the same thing tomorrow, and I might have a different answer...Just for Today, however, I choose not to use...

kj3880

Let me share on this topic as a newcomer to being clean and to NA. Most of us (at least the new people in my meetings) did stop to avoid consequences, not because we were no longer enjoying using. And now, when I do have the odd urge to use (less and less every day), I need to "play the tape all the way through" to get to the reasons not to use. In other words, I revisit the negative consequences in my mind to stop the impulse to use. So probably, for now, I would use sometimes if I could, if there was no chance I would get caught, fired, lose money, pick up an addiction again, be a jerk, any of that. If it was just going to be "Okay, you can be high as a kite for a couple hours, no one will ever know, and you won't get the desire to do it more after" then, yep, there are many days I would do just that. But of course, that's impossible here on Earth. Maybe that's what heaven is, high all the time, no consequences. I don't know. I'm changing though. More is yet to be revealed. Just being %100 honest with you.
kj

Cathy31

Hey kj
yeah, as my sponsor said the question is academic but I thought interesting...you are doing great at 30 days, I felt very similar to you at my 30 days although any second in the first few months I'd have chosen to get high with no consequences! These things cahnge and we begin to love our sober straight life more and more...keep going you doing great
cathy31
x

Gmoney

Thats a deep question. I've heard it before. And I guess the answer is dependent on the person and a multitude of things specific to that person.

At 9 years, 8 months and 10 days (or so) clean, I'd have to say that I used many more years than I've been clean and all of the years that I used weren't bad years. Even the NA Basic Text says that (for most of us) in the beginning using was fun. It even talks about how desperation is what brought us to NA. I'm inclined to believe that, if there was no desperation (a result of consequences) and using continued to be fun, there would probably be no Narcotics Anonymous.

Maybe I'm intellectualizing way too much here, but NA is a fellowship of addicts for whom drugs are a major problem. What makes drugs a major problem are the consequences: physical damage, mental damage and spiritual bankruptcy. And these are just the consequences we incur personally...not to mention the harm we cause others. Remove the consequences and there's no reason to stop using. Remove the down side to drug usage (drug addiction) and all that's left is euphoria and escape. Being powerless and unmanageable are consequences that bring about surrender, and without them, there would be no need. Wouldn't the same go for the insanity mentioned in step 2?

Step 2: "Insanity is using drugs day after day knowing that only physical and mental destruction comes when we use."

No physical or mental destruction (consequences), no insanity or reason not to use. I could go through all the literature and point out why consequences play a MAJOR role in our developing a desire to not use and a desire to stay clean. But I wont. What I will do is offer this for thought:

The natural state for an addict is to use. Many of us have found that we demonstrated addictive behavior long before we ever used a substance, but it was only after we came to NA that we explored these possibilities. Without a negative side to my drug use, I would still be using...and without a negative side to drug use, I would use again. You see, for me, it is that negative side that "repulses" me and allows me to make a conscious decision to stay clean on a daily basis. Every day I have a choice, and through practice, I've learned to make the choice subconsciously...without effort. The day that I forget the pain of active addiction (consequences) and view using as attractive (no consequences)...I may use. That day isn't today.

Paulie

Hmmm Okay I have been thinking about this one since I first read it a few hours ago. I just got off the treadmill and now I have an answer.

If there were NO consequences at all, meaning I would still have my faith and my relationship with my HP along with all the other stuff, honesty, integrity, loyalty all those gifts that I have gotten from being in recovery. Yes I would use. That is the honest truth. I would use speed/meth/crank/whatever it is being called today, it kept me thin without ever having to work out. And no consequences also means that it would not affect my health.

I have over 12 years clean, and that is my honest answer! If it would not affect my spiritual condition, I would use....I hate working out and eating right

Gmoney

That's what I'm talking about!!! HONESTY.

Cathy31

Good answers thanks for thought provoking stuff and your honesty and insights! Perhaps it is a bit different because my DOC is alcohol...for me, i have no desire to shut myself off from the sunlight of the spirit thats what alcohol / drug use does for me...it is an unnatural high I don't want it...and to be HONEST i would feel like I was spitting in God's face after he had saved me from a life of hell to take this unnatural route. I like reality too much these days I guess...i'm only STARTING to feel my feelings. It honestly does repulse me to go back down that road - consequences or not - of blotting out those poor feelings that I refused to acknowledge for so long. I just don't want to be half a person - drugs and alcohol make me inauthentic. They take away my ability to feel and be and to connect with my HP at that precise moment...so I don't want it and long may that last. I am fully aware that it is only through the Grace of my HP that I can say this honestly. I did not always feel like this. Now, i don't want to put my life on pause and that's what using does for me.

best

Consequences opened my eyes.
Wisdom has me say no, not ever again.

Cunning baffling deceitful .. even if no consequences were granted, I know that alcohol would find a way around that deal.

Gmoney

Well, for all it's worth...the question is really a walk in fantasy (for me). My experience speaks loudly that there will always be a consequence no matter how we phrase it. We can call the consequence being shut off from the spirit or shutting off our feelings (some view these the same), they're all consequences that came with using.

Reality tells me that I'll get what I always got before if I use. And I'm thankful for the wisdom to know the difference. The disease of addiction is progressive, incurable and fatal...whatever drug I use will lead to physical and mental destruction. It won't be the drug that gets me, it'll be the disease of addiction.

REZ

I wouldn't use drugs/alcohol again even if I could be guaranteed there would be no consequences, because that is not who I am today.
The question is kind of like, "would you cheat on your spouse if you would know that you could get away with it?" I wouldn't. That's not who I am today.

I value every minute of my life today, and I don't want to be zoned out on some drug.

Paulie

I agree with all the posts after mine ( and before LOL ) but my answer was based on no consequences, that means I would not be shut off the from the spirit, that means I would still be who I am today as a person a child of God. My life would not be put on pause, cause that would be a consequence.

I talked to another woman who struggles with her weight, she said the same thing as me......it is a weight issue LOL


But thank goodness I understand, for today, that that is a fantasy that there is HUGE consequences it I use. I understand, just for today, that if I use, I immediately cut off my open relationship with my HP and without that, I have nothing. That is my reality, not fantasy for today.:

Thanks Cathy31 for the fantasy of tossing my treadmill in a landfill for a few seconds LMAO!!!!! and still having a happy, joyous, and free life!!!

Sugah

To me, shutting myself off from the spirit is shutting off my purpose. My purpose here is not to be a selfish being caring only about my "sensations" (or lack thereof, in the case of pain and other unpleasant sensations), but to be aware, live authentically, and be alert for my HP's will for me. I can't do that when I use, therefore, I can't, under any circumstance, use without consequences.

Thanks for putting it into words, Garry.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Paulie

I agree Sugah, I cannot use without consequences either!!!!

Lily

hmmm intersting question.....I don't know honestly. No consequences meaning no feelings of having to puke? No hangover? No losing my clean time? No wanting to pick up the next day? how about could my HP see me? Or would that consequence be gone too? Would I be ignoring my 5 yr old? would I be selfish and self centered like i get when high?

Since I know there is no way this could happen, guess i won't entertain the idea any more tonight.

Sheila

Cathy31

Hey Sheila
This is exactly the point I got to soon after thinking about this in my car...my mind of course started the what if thing and I was able to say to myself you know what, Cath - it does you know good to even hypothetically consider a loophole - there is none. You use you die. You have a beautiful life. Don't open up a way for your addict mind to start thinking of scenarios to justify/not justify.

What I got from this thread is that many of us treasure our clean time/sobriety (and that includes the kind of people we have become, our relationship with our HP) above any artificial high/escape and that's real recovery IMHO.

Just for today I have no desire to use alcohol or drugs through the grace of my HP.


Cathy31
x

PS Paulie - I'm so impressed with your dedication to the wonderful world of exercise -and treadmill no less, the hardest piece of equipment!! I've got seriously into exercise in recovery but BOY is it hard work - now just to deal with the sugar obsession and I'll be as thin as a pin!

Paulie

Cathy31 - dedication......I dont know about that, desperation is a better word LOL. I stopped going to meetings about 8 years ago, I gained a ton of weight. I have been back at meetings and working a program almost 4 years now, lost the weight with diet and exercise (that is when I got my first treadmill) kept it off for a year. Then the year went by and my little addict brain told me I was safe again from gaining it back, so I stopped exercising. And I gained 20 lbs, now getting that 20 off, 10 down 10 to go.

I absolutley hate exercise, that is the honest truth. That is why the fantasy of not having to do it was appealing to me LOL. But I do now love the way I feel when consistently exercising. I sleep better, I think better, I have a better sense of humor ....all kinds of benefits.

Thanks again for the thought provoking question. I enjoy reading everyones responses.

Paulie

That makes 2 of us.