Honesty -vs- Truth
Evolving Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Honesty -vs- Truth
Honesty.
What exactly is it? When I think about honesty I often recall an old saying my grandmother often said:
"There's 3 sides to every story - his side, her side, and the truth."
And although I'm familiar with dictionary definitions of what the word honesty means, I'm inclined to conclude that honesty is really a perception thing. Honesty is what I believe the truth to be, whether it actually is or not. Connecting my understanding to what my grandma said - "he" is being honest when telling his side of a story because he can only give what he has. As another saying goes, more times than not, we don't know what we don't know. So, ultimately...if I'm not careful or aware, I can be honest and telling a lie. Wow!! I guess the good part about being honest is that sometimes my perceptions are in line with what is factual, actual and truthful.
In recovery we are told that honesty is the antidote for our diseased thinking. I mean, honesty is one of the basic spiritual principles of 12 step recovery, right? It's the "H" in H.O.W. and it's something we're taught to practice on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, there's always the "double-edged sword" aspect going on. For example, being honest (for me) doesn't mean I need to tell you every thing I think about you in order to belittle or demean you. I can't recall the saying, but it talks about how honesty without compassion is abuse, or something like that. I call it "brutal honesty." Verbal abuse can be just as bad as physical abuse, as far as I'm concerned. I can claim to share with you with "rigorous honesty" but if I'm not practicing the principles of empathy, compassion, consideration, love, humility, simplicity, acceptance, selflessness or open-mindedness...am I REALLY being honest or self-righteous? Spiritual principles aren't supposed to ever be in conflict with one another.
The same goes for open-mindedness, because I could claim to be open-minded when in reality I'm actually being indecisive or unable to think independently. Or I can use willingness as an excuse for being gullible.
But getting back to honesty: I truly believe it is important for us to be as honest as we can in all of our affairs, as long as our honesty doesn't conflict with the practice of other spiritual principles. By being honest, we allow others to get to know who we are and how we think. By revealing ourselves, we also reveal the areas of our thinking that need to change. NA teaches us that everything we know about the truth is up for revision - the truth doesn't get revised, only what we know about it. And what I know about the truth can be very little.
I hope that my honesty is closely related to the truth, and if not, I hope I never become so rigid in my thinking that I become unteachable. I also hope that I would never use honesty as a weapon in the name of being true to myself.
What exactly is it? When I think about honesty I often recall an old saying my grandmother often said:
"There's 3 sides to every story - his side, her side, and the truth."
And although I'm familiar with dictionary definitions of what the word honesty means, I'm inclined to conclude that honesty is really a perception thing. Honesty is what I believe the truth to be, whether it actually is or not. Connecting my understanding to what my grandma said - "he" is being honest when telling his side of a story because he can only give what he has. As another saying goes, more times than not, we don't know what we don't know. So, ultimately...if I'm not careful or aware, I can be honest and telling a lie. Wow!! I guess the good part about being honest is that sometimes my perceptions are in line with what is factual, actual and truthful.
In recovery we are told that honesty is the antidote for our diseased thinking. I mean, honesty is one of the basic spiritual principles of 12 step recovery, right? It's the "H" in H.O.W. and it's something we're taught to practice on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, there's always the "double-edged sword" aspect going on. For example, being honest (for me) doesn't mean I need to tell you every thing I think about you in order to belittle or demean you. I can't recall the saying, but it talks about how honesty without compassion is abuse, or something like that. I call it "brutal honesty." Verbal abuse can be just as bad as physical abuse, as far as I'm concerned. I can claim to share with you with "rigorous honesty" but if I'm not practicing the principles of empathy, compassion, consideration, love, humility, simplicity, acceptance, selflessness or open-mindedness...am I REALLY being honest or self-righteous? Spiritual principles aren't supposed to ever be in conflict with one another.
The same goes for open-mindedness, because I could claim to be open-minded when in reality I'm actually being indecisive or unable to think independently. Or I can use willingness as an excuse for being gullible.
But getting back to honesty: I truly believe it is important for us to be as honest as we can in all of our affairs, as long as our honesty doesn't conflict with the practice of other spiritual principles. By being honest, we allow others to get to know who we are and how we think. By revealing ourselves, we also reveal the areas of our thinking that need to change. NA teaches us that everything we know about the truth is up for revision - the truth doesn't get revised, only what we know about it. And what I know about the truth can be very little.
I hope that my honesty is closely related to the truth, and if not, I hope I never become so rigid in my thinking that I become unteachable. I also hope that I would never use honesty as a weapon in the name of being true to myself.
Lost-n-Found
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cairo
Posts: 923
No wonder honesty is core to our program. The 'wheel' of recovery CANNOT begin to spin without it as a pre-requisite. With honesty I can admit and begin to see as painful as that might be. I can fool almost anyone but I cannot fool myself. I know the truth about me.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
"we don't know what we don't know. So, ultimately...if I'm not careful or aware, I can be honest and telling a lie."
Truer words were never spoken. In the past 6 weeks or so since I joined NA, I've heard some of the most ignorant, irresponsible nonsense passed off as truth because someone has an uniformed medical opinion about say, medically unsupervised cold-turkey withdrawal from some types of drugs being something that you can't possibly die from.
Its a truth for the person speaking it because maybe it worked out for him/her. But not a truth for all people, all situations. I wish people in NA, and people everywhere for that matter, who give out medical advice, would research it first, or leave it to a doctor. I've even heard people on here do it. I always hold my breath when I see someone advising a person going cold-turkey alone just "tough it out" "You'll be Okay." I always hope that's true. And I never think that the answer is to pick up using again, but to check in with an ER or doc if you start having seizures or really dehydrating or other scary stuff. Especially pregnant women withdrawing.
Don't get me wrong, I know it comes from a place of love and best of intentions, but people should really think twice before giving advice unless they are qualified to do so.
Just my example of someone's truth being a lie. There are others.
kj
Truer words were never spoken. In the past 6 weeks or so since I joined NA, I've heard some of the most ignorant, irresponsible nonsense passed off as truth because someone has an uniformed medical opinion about say, medically unsupervised cold-turkey withdrawal from some types of drugs being something that you can't possibly die from.
Its a truth for the person speaking it because maybe it worked out for him/her. But not a truth for all people, all situations. I wish people in NA, and people everywhere for that matter, who give out medical advice, would research it first, or leave it to a doctor. I've even heard people on here do it. I always hold my breath when I see someone advising a person going cold-turkey alone just "tough it out" "You'll be Okay." I always hope that's true. And I never think that the answer is to pick up using again, but to check in with an ER or doc if you start having seizures or really dehydrating or other scary stuff. Especially pregnant women withdrawing.
Don't get me wrong, I know it comes from a place of love and best of intentions, but people should really think twice before giving advice unless they are qualified to do so.
Just my example of someone's truth being a lie. There are others.
kj
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
Truth Vs. Honesty
Truth is truth, unchanging. As far as honesty goes this one is a little more tricky. We can tell half truths to slant things in a way we want them to be perceived, or we can tell like you said Garry, your side, etc.
I think we need to check our motives. They can be soooo scewed at times with our self-centeredness and the fact that we are such control freaks. It is sometimes hard for us as addicts, or should I say hard for me to be totally transparent at times.
Heck, I was sharing my first step the other night with my sponsor and she was actually shocked at something I shared. I was hurt, and now I am wondering if I want to share as candidly in the future with her. Would that be dis-honest now to tell half truths? I am very much thinking about this....sorry I am bringing this back around to me, I guess that what I do best at times... lol
I do think we need to strip down to our motives...... we don't even understand or know them at times, that has a lot (for me at least) on what my truth is.
sorry if this sounds like a rabbit trail.... and a ramble....
Sheila
KJ3880~
PS I cannot stand ppl who tell things as fact when they do not have a clue. I think that is false pride and arrogance. I have no problems telling someone, "I don't know, but I will find out and get back with you." If I am not 100 positive, I say so....or if i THINK i know something, I will say, "I am pretty sure this is correct, but do not take it as fact....."
Being as a somewhat intelligent person, and knowing that I possess so little of ALL knowledge out there, I think to say that is a no-brainer. You can look things up, research etc....
Truth is truth, unchanging. As far as honesty goes this one is a little more tricky. We can tell half truths to slant things in a way we want them to be perceived, or we can tell like you said Garry, your side, etc.
I think we need to check our motives. They can be soooo scewed at times with our self-centeredness and the fact that we are such control freaks. It is sometimes hard for us as addicts, or should I say hard for me to be totally transparent at times.
Heck, I was sharing my first step the other night with my sponsor and she was actually shocked at something I shared. I was hurt, and now I am wondering if I want to share as candidly in the future with her. Would that be dis-honest now to tell half truths? I am very much thinking about this....sorry I am bringing this back around to me, I guess that what I do best at times... lol
I do think we need to strip down to our motives...... we don't even understand or know them at times, that has a lot (for me at least) on what my truth is.
sorry if this sounds like a rabbit trail.... and a ramble....
Sheila
KJ3880~
PS I cannot stand ppl who tell things as fact when they do not have a clue. I think that is false pride and arrogance. I have no problems telling someone, "I don't know, but I will find out and get back with you." If I am not 100 positive, I say so....or if i THINK i know something, I will say, "I am pretty sure this is correct, but do not take it as fact....."
Being as a somewhat intelligent person, and knowing that I possess so little of ALL knowledge out there, I think to say that is a no-brainer. You can look things up, research etc....
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
Sheila, look at it this way, you helped your sponsor learn something about herself that day, trust me on that one.
honesty vs truth became more clear with step work for me.
and KJ I do not agree with anyone giving medical detox advice. I do not even advise women I sponsor on things like pain management, cause I have no experience in that area.
My statement was meant to say, if I am being honest with myself about my truths and my motives I am incapable of not being honest with others.....that is how I try and live my life.
honesty vs truth became more clear with step work for me.
and KJ I do not agree with anyone giving medical detox advice. I do not even advise women I sponsor on things like pain management, cause I have no experience in that area.
My statement was meant to say, if I am being honest with myself about my truths and my motives I am incapable of not being honest with others.....that is how I try and live my life.
Evolving Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
There's a few things NA literature tells us we should avoid, but many of us either overlook it, just plain ignore it, or didn't know:
Giving advice. We share ES&H...that's it. I only give advice when asked.
Moralizing. What's right for me can be all wrong for you.
Stereotyping. We focus on our similarities, but should never forget our diversity.
Even our 12th step tells us to honestly share our experience, not theories, hearsay or rumor. I agree with Paulie...through practicing honesty with myself, it's pretty difficult for me not to be honest with others.
Giving advice. We share ES&H...that's it. I only give advice when asked.
Moralizing. What's right for me can be all wrong for you.
Stereotyping. We focus on our similarities, but should never forget our diversity.
Even our 12th step tells us to honestly share our experience, not theories, hearsay or rumor. I agree with Paulie...through practicing honesty with myself, it's pretty difficult for me not to be honest with others.
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